Brian Culkin’s Declaration of Independence was published here on 23 March 2011. More detail on the pillaging of Brian Culkin’s personal wealth and attempted robbery of his personal integrity at Corporate Scientology’s “Mecca” was recounted in the St Petersburg Times Inside Scientology: The Money Machine series a couple of weeks ago. Today Brian covers some more thoughts on the subject of Corporate Scientology avarice and its effects on individuals.
MEMORIES, NIGHTMARES, AND REFLECTION
by Brian Culkin
“There is no good calling upon a Martin Luther; their day is over and at bottom it is only the individual’s laziness which makes a man long to have them back, a worldly impatience which prefers to buy something cheap, second-hand, rather than to buy the highest of all things very dear and first-hand.” -Kierkegaard
“There is something good in all seeming failures. You are not to see that now. Time will reveal all. Be patient.” -Sivananda
“And life itself told me this secret: “Behold,” it said, “I am that which must overcome itself again and again.” -Nietzsche
In light of the recent revelations from the investigative reporting by the St. Petersburg Times in which I played a small role, I felt as a contributor to the collective beingness of this blog I should write a small note.
When I left Flag in February of 2010 I was in a place. It was dark. The tangible and potent sense of betrayal, pain, anger, and grief that seemed to alternate in a rhythmic fashion through my soul led me to discover new depths and corners of my being. It was not easy. After only being in for one year, it took nearly that same time to begin to feel any sense of wholeness again.
As I watched the video of myself speaking for the first time, I realized in yet a new context how truly dangerous and inherently malevolent this organization was. I am far from perfect. Far. Very far. But I will say, and anyone who knows me will attest to this, I always try to see the good in people. Even after I left Flag, although I was devastated, I blamed myself more than anything. I ‘pulled it in.’ I ‘was responsible.’ It was from ‘whole track overts.’ I had been trained well, it seemed. However, while watching the video and reading the other horror stories, a new dimension of comprehension emerged that I had never quite grasped before. The almost unspeakable betrayal this organization engages in on a daily basis was understood with deeper implications and a more compelling frame of reference.
Vulnerability is pounced on and exploited.
Basic decency is looked on with disgust.
Sincere happiness and fulfillment is repudiated.
I realized these facets and more as I digested this series and the components that emerged from within it and myself.
And then….. I laughed.
I checked the facebook statuses of several of the “OT 8′s” I met while I was at Flag the day the story broke. I was struck how the leaders of the Flag community made no mention whatsoever of a large scale public series investigating, exposing, and ultimately condemning their church. Their friends. Their existence. Their supposed essence.
No defense was seen. No, “They are lying! Its just not true! We are righteous and noble!” Nothing of the sort. All quiet on the Clearwater front.
Instead, one of the “OT 8′s” posted this the day the series broke on his wall, “So, (wife’s name) and I go to Naples for the weekend as a “get away”. On Sunday, (wife’s name) asks what do you want to do with your free day? I say, “FOOTBALL WATCHING BABY.” She says ,”cool, I will go to the spa for some spa services!” Awesome so far! Then the Bills and Bucs get smoked, I lose the office pool and my fantasy football teams get crunched! All in a span of 3 hours! Afterwards, (wife’s name) is SOOO happy with the spa services! I am at a loss for words on how bad the day went! Woman are smarter than men! This proves it! All I can say about the Bills and Bucs is see ya next week!”
“Intelligence is the ability to recognize identities, similarities, and differences.” -L. Ron Hubbard
Enlightenment: Corporate Scientology Style.
And then….. I laughed more.
My view on Scientology as a whole is still evolving. There are aspects I find profound. There are aspects I don’t care for so much. And I will say matter of fact and unequivocally known in my heart- there is a cogent, tangible difference between Corporate Scientology and the potentiality of the philosophy expressed and applied in the Independent field. I would however like to make it clear to all the individuals reading this blog: I do not need Scientology. I do not need Scientology in the exact same way Scientology is not owed to me. And if I ever do decide to use Scientology again it will be for the sole purpose of the betterment of other individuals and thus myself. I am who I am. With or without.
I would also like to send a direct message to OSA as well: I have zero interest in fighting Scientology. Zero. Less than zero. There are plenty of people to joyfully play that game. I have other things I would like to do with my life, actually. And fighting you is not on the top of my list. Or on the bottom for that matter.
Yet, I was part of a horrendous crime scene that I cannot walk away from in good conscience: Extortion. Blackmail. Theft. And one crime that is not written in any book of law: The attempted rape of the soul.
If I have to go on Good Morning America and further expose your crimes to the world, I will do it.
If I have to endure 10 years of Squirrel Busters at my door before I get what you stole from me, I will do it.
If I have to call the poor receptionist at OSA Flag everyday for the rest of my life, I will do it.
It is my experience that any situation can be resolved or remedied with the right leadership and live communication. This organization has neither. They proclaim the spirit from their teleprompter and imprison their own in secret quarters. They preach the virtue of self-determination while getting approvals from their seniors for the most menial of tasks. They espouse the power of responsibility yet fail to demonstrate any when the lights of the world shine upon them. They claim to have the secrets to life itself locked in their safe and then hide the key away for no one to find it.
The empty buildings and delusional statistics that could not fool a child are embraced by your most enlightened. Virtually every advice by LRH in reference to being true to oneself and observing what you observe are non existent in practice. Even KSW, which axiomatically states that bad PR and attacks from the government only occur from “bad or no results,” is reasoned with. “That doesn’t apply to SP’s” is the new policy.
Shame on you Corporate Scientology for what you have done.
For the abuse to legitimate whistleblowers and critics, for the harassment of your own, for your fundamental disrespect to the spiritual seeker, for the lies, for the theft, the betrayal.
Shame on you Corporate Scientology for what you have not done.
For not making thousands and thousands of Auditors, for not allowing the average individual to move up the Bridge without crushing debt, for not admitting your wrongs, for not putting the philosophy you teach above your shiny, empty buildings, for not being who you truly are instead of the pathetic catering to the world and its pathetic fads.
There is a truth about human beings I have seen: The more one tries to be someone they are not, the less they can change.
There is another truth about human beings I have seen: Every man has a dark side. A side he never shows to the world that only comes out in the depths of his own hell. And if that man can allow that fire to burn down to his very core, something new, even beautiful can emerge.
That does not happen in Corporate Scientology. Because Corporate Scientology is hell.
I am open to communication from anyone. Anon, Indies, Lurkers, OSA.
Brian Culkin
culkin24@hotmail.com
“So long as a man can look into the eyes of his oppressor, he is free.” -Jean-Paul Sartre
Brian I am so proud to call you my friend.
Without a doubt one of the most compelling articles about Corporate Scientology I’ve ever read.
And the last truth — about everyone having a dark side — and it is through walking into that dark side, the valley of the shadow of death, are we ever able to rise to greater heights. Allowing the fire to burn down to ones core.
Brilliant.
Here’s hoping to see you on Good Morning America!!
Love,
WH
Well said Brian. All that and more!
“Even after I left Flag, although I was devastated, I blamed myself more than anything. I ‘pulled it in.’ I ‘was responsible.’ It was from ‘whole track overts.’ I had been trained well, it seemed.”
The best traps are those so thoroughly rooted in truth turned lies that the individual is hard put differentiating.
Then the lies become a seemingly impenetrable barrier to truth.
And we are trapped.
Until we see through the lies. And learn to differentiate.
Brian,
Your intelligence, insights and humanity are inspirational. You capture in a few words the essence of the travesty of Corporate Scientology.
You are like a comet — very fast and bright. To have contacted Scientology relatively recently, done so much in such a short time and been willing to LOOK and observe the truth and not how it is spoon fed is really admirable. It took many of us a LOT longer…
I have no doubt you will stick to your promise. Glad I am not the receptionist at Flag!
You see things so sharply
Yes, like a comet – as Bobby Fischer was to chess; only you have a MUCH brighter future, Brian. Your words are beautifully crafted and pierce the soul; the fire burns within me as well. “The attempted rape of the soul” – so chilling yet so true (to withhold or threaten a being’s perceived eternity as a control method is evil incarnate) – and so much more eloquent than “cluster fuck”.
Cramer,
“cluster fuck”? In this context, that’s funny in several ways. HA!
That’s me, the master of the double entendre
There are several military veterans in my family and the term would occasionally be bantied about – as well as another military phrase appropriate for Corporate Scientology – FUBAR. My father was a veteran of WWII and was a survivor of the Normany invasion. I consider his experience and yours at the hands of the church to be of comparable magnitude and salute your bravery.
Sorry, that’s Normandy of course.
P.S. That Normandy comment was directed at you, Scott.
Indeed! LOL.
Glad to see you moving through and out of your nightmare Brian. I say not only full refund but punitive damages are in order too.
MIke- The conversations I have with the OSA receptionist are truly epic. There are 2 of them. One hates me more than life itself. One, although won’t admit it, is totally 100% in agreement with me. Its funny.
Now, I just say, “Hey it’s me. Is Sarah there?”
Who’s on first?
Thanks for the ack.
Thank You Brian. I wish I had written that. It goes straight to the heart of the matter, from the depths of one’s soul, a pure communication, without any alloying of message, of what I, too, have experienced and perceive. Best blog to date. I will save this one. Thank you, thank you.
You inspire me. This is SPOT ON!
I agree.
Very,very sharp Brian. And you are definitely of clear-crystal clear- and sound mind. As an auditor for 20 years +, I sure have a hell of a lot respect for how you are handling this. I think I will email you.
Brian,
There are many inspiring posts on this blog from people who have paid a heavy price to discover and follow the truth about this evil and corrupt organization. But your post here is lyrical, passionate, and particularly memorable. Thank you.
Brian, thank you many times over for writing this.
You speak my mind and in the same sort of precision language and precision thought I myself try to uphold.
This essay is approaches Art in its quality of communication.
Thank you.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Wow! Thank you so much Brian.
Brian,
Nice piece of work. So many touchstones.
When I left the church thirty years ago, I virtually dumped the entire subject in the trash as a huge betrayal to those seeking spiritual enlightenments. It wasn’t until a few years ago when I’d traveled long on that road and got re-aquainted with Hubbard’s work that I began to understand not only what he had done but its value.
You are so right that you are who you are. The idea that a subject which outlines the “study of knowing how to know” is senior to actually knowing how to know is preposterous. That a subject dealing with the study of life is senior to life is ridiculous. The subject “Scientology” isn’t senior to any of us. When we agree that the subject is senior to us, we have agreed to be junior to the subject, effect of the subject, a slave to the subject.
If reality is agreement, and if agreements are reached through communication, then the emergence of the Church of Scientology as anathema to spiritual growth occurred only because those involved decided to accept and agree to that condition. At any point, each of us has the ability and right to accept or reject any communication or agreement.
Fighting anything embroils you in its energies, good or bad. Fighting, per se, is neither good nor bad, just as problems are neither good nor bad. Sometimes one chooses to expose the lies and corruption of an individual or group, and that individual or group fights against being exposed. So, now attacked, do you “fight back?”
What is fighting? Well, “fighting” is misunderstood for the most part. In the highest sense, “fighting” has nothing to do with physical energy and force. In the highest sense, fighting has to do with application of resources to bring about change in resistance conditions. You get down to the level of street thugs or nations at war and fighting is pure violence aimed at destruction. But that’s low toned fighting. Higher up, fighting is mostly about creation and construction rather than annihilation and destruction.
Higher “efforts” tend to condense into mass and solidities when resistance is met. The more embroiled one becomes with mass and solidity, the more problems one accumulates and the more ignorant one becomes. Which leads to all sorts of “solutions” that involved further condensations into more and more mass, solidity and violence of energy.
It’s an odd phenomenon that fighting at a spiritual level involves pure thought, while fighting at lower levels also involves fighting as impure thought. Somewhere in between, you have theta confronting and handling MEST to fight. But, way down where OSA resides, fighting is delusional. To them, you are fighting the church. The fight rages in their minds. Pure delusion.
And, in an odd way, they probably have tapped into your theta substance and embroiled it in part of that delusion. In their delusional war, you exist as an entity which must be defeated.
I really hadn’t entertained the idea of fighting when I started this comment. I just got sidetracked. I was going to comment on the realities formed in the church and about “the dark side.”
I’ll leave the dark side for another comment.
Scientology is a Div 5 Qual action intended to help people “become more able to play a better game.” That game is the life a person already had before Scientology. Participation in Scientology is supposed to improve a person’s pre-existing life, not become a substitute for it. The trick is to make full use of Scientology in one’s Qual division, while continuing to live life in one’s other divisions, such as Div 4 Production, Div 6 Social-Community, etc.
While Scientology could also become one’s career, if that occured its proper place in one’s life would be the same as the career of being a doctor, lawyer, baker, or candlestick maker, such as “the wogs” have. One could also be a non-profit volunteer, as many “wogs” are who have support from a spouse or some other source. But 24/7 immersion in a cultish environment would not be part of that picture.
What happened in the Church was that it enforced an inversion on first its staff, and then its public. In this inversion, one gives up his own personal org board (his life), and becomes a post in the Church org board. Not “have” a post, but “become” a post. Enslaved to his post, whether in an org or as a public expected to make a high income and contribute it all to the Church, one ceases to be theta (a creator and user of things), and becomes mest (a thing to be created and used).
The irony is that the inversion goes all the way to the top. Without his “post” as in “David Miscavige IS Scientology,” DM would have no human life. He inverted as a child because he was weak, and then in fear of others discovering his weakness, he found a way to trick them into inverting in his image (which is actually the image of some SP on his whole track who crushed him), and flow power to him (which actually means to that whole track SP of which he is now a clone).
DM hates REAL Scientology because REAL Scientology is about REAL life, which is something he can’t confront. This is also the reason for his “unnaturally close” relationship with Tom Cruise — it’s another inversion for him. And, to the degree than Cruise has inverted to have common reality with Miscavige, he’s DAMAGED his game (his career) rather than enhanced it.
The old Mission Network of the 60′s and 70′s was not inverted. The Sea Org became an inversion after the first year or so, because the low-on-the-bridge recruits that flooded in were not ready for the very high mest gradient it put them on. They inverted in order to survive, and there went the whole ball game. LRH tried to solve this with various programs during the 70′s, but ran out of time.
In our zeal to restore Scientology to its rightful place and function, we must guard against it becoming more than an assist to our own personal Div 5 Qual divisions, while at the same time avoiding becoming so seduced by our current mest lifetime havingness and games that we lose sight of our Big Picture as immortal thetans.
Balance is required, and it’s not easy.
OUAT,
I have to confess, you REALLY have an amazing way with words,my man! Make that broader;you also get an overview of situations,and viewpoints and manage to share this SO graphically, it’s like watching a documentary unfold, while in actuality, one is just reading your post.Dammed if I will Ever know the secret! Just as well hey?
OUAT fan, Li’ll bit
Li’ll bit,
Thanks. Mostly, I’m full of shit. A thug by nature. Erudition and intellect bore me. But, I get sucked into that process by trying to explain what I see and experience. It’d be so much easier just to postulate and intend a concept so others could share it. Then I’d have more time to goof off.
Michael
ps: Does OUAT rhyme with squat?
Michael — I have always read it as rhyming with “dingbat”….
“dingbat?” Why, I can show you insults that by comparison which you’d call that a compliment. My friends think much worse of me.
Dingbat?
As in silly: let this mind ne’er accept chains so serious, which imprison by agreements and find freedom ridiculous.
As in eccentric: such ambition to live within the circle of mortal thought–to be faulted for finding orbits without.
As in empty-headed: ah, alas, my aims are met, not a thought left inside this useless skull, no more to fret.
A dingbat I be. Purged of all thought deemed necessary. Proud of the status.
Michael,
I’m up to re-study of Creation of Human Ability, and just read this the other day:
“Basically this Universe is a game. The MEST universe pretends to be a universe of peace. In order to become a universe of peace it is necessary to stop everything from fighting. In order to have a game it is necessary to have opponents. If one has opponents there must be fighting. This universe is organized to immobilize a thetan.
“So eager is a thetan to have a game that he will adopt to himself all manner of liabilities in order to have a parity with his opponents. One cannot have a game with people who are too inferior in strength or cleverness. Thus one reduces his own strength and cleverness in order to have a game.” Route 2 – #43, FIGHTING, COHA.
Nice one Mr. Logan.
Jim,
Thanks for the reference. I’m inching my way toward that. Slowly.
I suppose it explains why some scratch their heads when we smash at one another just for the hell of it.
I also think that the definition of “fighting” has been further humanized and reduced to a very narrow band of experience–just like LRH explains in how this universe becomes a trap.
Just like “perception” gets narrowed. Just like understanding and knowing become narrowed. All these things are seriously booby trapped, much through redefinition.
Wish the things I write didn’t come across as so pedantic. It’s at times, very difficult and time consuming to convert certain points of understanding to other points of understanding–especially through a language that doesn’t recognize what you’re talking about. Being lazy, I just dash something off and let those who see see.
How to communicate one reality to another.
It’s a lot easier communicating with friends who realize the words are attached to experience rather than just to a bunch of other words and significances strung together to confuse and gain altitude.
Mostly, I’m anonymously leaving baskets of food on door steps, hoping those inside will enjoy the gift. As the saying goes, “you can lead a horse to the calculus book, but you can’t force him to cha-cha.”
Michael,
Better a pedant than a pedarast I always (well just this once actually), say.
I’ve got another on perception that I just reviewed as part of the COHA study. It’s from the 3rd ACC, on a series of steps called S.O.P.
(for OT). You recall the idea we were tossing about as to the “bridge” from the Static to Emotion, Effort etc. Well, going over this tape again the other day I realized that “co-vibration”, that is, the perception of something at its wavelength needed a “machine”, that is, some device in energy, space, time, that would “pick up” at the right vibration so as to perceive. The body has these energy-pickup devices, and using them is pretty convenient, but what am I using other than the body? Well, that led to all sorts of cogs on the “bridges”, the various devices set up to do what this little tape excerpt is commenting on.
“Now, all of our auditing up to this time has been more or less scheduled on just trying to stabilize somebody outside and turn his perception on. Well let’s take up this problem of perception. We find the problem of perception is the willingness to perceive, which is the willingness to let particles come in on him. That’s a problem of perception. It is a problem of resisting energy. You have to resist energy to have it stop someplace so that you can see it. See that? And that’s the problem of perception. So outgoing and incoming energy lines make themselves perception and communication. Therefore, an individual has to be able to exteriorize from these piled up masses of perception…
So, an individual has to be able to exteriorize readily from anything he gets into, and has to know that he can do it. So this becomes very important. Therefore and only then is he willing to perceive.” 25 Jan 54, BASIC DATA ON
(OT).
Exteriorization is the second postulate from my own first, interiorization and why interiorize? For the sensation!!!!! And that’s the why on machinery to perceive, the “machine” being anything composed of energy/matter in space and time. I think I’ll call them “Feelies”.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you stink – and thank you for that, as it gives me more to “Feelie”
“
Hey, that goofy face with the goggles came up when I typed “o”. It’s supposed to be an “o” not a googly face. But that face is pretty cool too.
Jim,
Speaking of pederasts…no, I’ll bite my tongue and leave Davie alone.
As for what you wrote, I was having these same experiences when I was observing how the body synchronized with present time. I was watching what I was calling “constructs” but what LRH and you call machines and studying how perceptions were channeled and processed.
The individual thetan isn’t the only one processing perceptions. This machinery and sub-machinery is also processing it.
It was kind of interesting to observe how, as you noted, all perceptions require that counter-effort to become realized. That moment of perception sets up a series of “problems” that persist or not.
Then I had a huge cognition about what preceded perception. What preceded “theta perception” also. At least what we might term theta perception. Knowingness and awareness are not uniform or constant.
Just as we have the periodic table of elements that describes a variety of matter, you might say there is a parallel differentiation that could be made with knowing.
The physical universe reflects and parallels theta in many ways. Physical perceptions exist as extensions of particular theta abilities or theta perceptions. Visio exists in bodies because that can actually “see.” Same with sonic and taste and touch and the entire array of perceptics. Theta could do this stuff before it became part of the body.
But, preceding any perception is an awareness or knowingness. The perception is merely an expression or “realization” of that knowingness.
As I began to examine knowingness, I became more and more aware of different potentials or abilities inherent in that knowingness. Just as understanding can be broken into affinity, reality and communication. And communication (for example) can be broken into an array of perceptions, symbols, meanings, interpretations with intentions and duplications, with cause and effect, etc. In other words, understanding might be a simple concept, but underlying that concept is a vast array of possibility driven by a vast array of distinct theta abilities or capacities–all capable of being identified and differentiated.
That said, while watching the perceptions and conditions that made up present time, I just gave a big theta yawn and realized that time was a big lie, which made present time a big lie supported by a bunch of (as you said) machinery that tracks and validates it.
I had to come up with new reasons to keep tracking present time. So, I figured, I’d just spent on that money on a delicious steak, so I’d better pay attention to the car in front of me so I don’t run into it and vomit up that very fine steak. I was willing to know that the steak would serve as energy for my body so I could stay up and watch Colbert, but I had to not know the future of that steak as the body made of it what the physical universe so aptly makes of thetans.
I also decided that watching squirrels scampering along the fence line was sufficiently amusing to stay in present times (sometimes) and that watching Victoria’s Secret models had rewards. Maybe with some further thought, I will discover more reasons why present time is valuable.
I just had to admit to myself that just because something’s a lie doesn’t mean it’s all bad. Lies can be pretty entertaining. How could we have a game without them?
In respect of the gentile turn this blog has taken, and not wanting to offend anyone, I will not call you a fucking moron whose stench far surpasses the stench of the Ganges during corpse a la feces season. That would be rude and I am anything but rude. Instead, I will only say that the sophistication of your reasoning is reminiscent of the scent of your unwashed athletic supporter after an entire season moldering on your unshowered flesh.
Catamites, indeed!
Humph!
ps: I’m sure my explanation is about as clear as the Ganges during monsoon season, but, hey! tough pooh-pooh.
Michael,
Only quick now, as blog move on. Periodic table of perceptics. You nailed it. Catamites, better not.
Steak, mmmmmmm.
Ganges, yes, that’s the smell. Dang those facsimiles. All those “periodic” aspects. DANG!!!!!!
TAKE A FRIKKIN’ BATH IN CLEAN FRIKKIN’ WATER (mooning).
Thanks, Brian. Lots of truth there.
Regarding your Facebook “friends”, I think the concept of “the three universes” applies best. In your universe, your exposé in the SP Times was the hugest thing going on. In the universe of that one couple, it was their weekend trip. That is pretty much all that was going on there as regards universes one and two (self and others).
It is when we look at universe three, the universe of agreement, that things get interesting. In the (still-forming) agreed universe of Indies, that exposé was, again, huge. In the tightly controlled and enforced “agreed” universe of the “good Scientologist”, the OT8, it was all “move along folks, nothing to see here.” It is possible that word went out on the grapevine, “Don’t read the SP Times anytime soon, it will be full of entheta on the Church” and in that universe, that was that. Those evil merchants of chaos were again assailing the most ethical group on the planet. Not to worry, we are going to out-create it by having a nice weekend!
It is by the blatant and unceasing manipulation of this third universe that the chains are forged. Everything we dislike about the current scene is there because the people involved have agreed that this is how it is and how it must be. And the most offensive aspect is that all disagreement must be suppressed. Self-suppressed and group-suppressed. One of the most basic human rights, the right to disagree, is thoroughly subverted. The only disagreement that one is allowed is to disagree with saving money, going to college, owning a home
This is one reason that I am so opposed to censorship and any attempt to control that free development of the third universe on this site. Because, like it or not, this site is the central location for the development of agreements amongst those that still think the tech has value despite anything that has been done in its name.
So let’s not repeat the actions (I will not say “errors” for I do not think it is done in error) of those that would control a group by controlling its comm lines and its agreements for we see where that path leads.
disinfected
Bravo! Very well said.
Love it. Simply truth.
Brian,
You are good for the soul.
I found your article cleansing and inspirational.
Thank you.
+100. Sam, I too found this very cleansing and inspirational. This blog, the variety and details of postings, has continued to be good for the soul.
Very well said.
Hey Everyone …. I just got off of Yahoo … and on the front page news line up is the “Woman imprisioned on Scientology Cruise Ship for 12 Years” . Now that is a BIG in your face statement that cannot be missed.
Here comes another wave of defections.
Brick by brick …… the walls are crumbling and falling down.
Indeed it is there right on the front page of Yahoo News. That is a big deal!
Here is the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/woman-imprisoned-scientology-cruise-ship-12-years-145114448.html
With 3,491 comments………so far.
Wow, and about 4,000 comments so far.
5345 comments now! Woo Hoo
Must be the brilliant response of Karin Pinocchio Pauw; TD never reached that level of stellar stupidity!
Yahoo!!!!!!!
Hip hip hurray!!!
Outstanding!
There are now 5,869 comments. Reading some of them shows there are many many people demanding legal investigation and intervention. This is the type of public opinion pressure that may accomplish what the white house petition appears not to have fulfilled as yet. The world wakes up, one story at a time, that there is something really dark and sinister lurking behind the curtains.
6060 comments! Still on page 1 in the “most popular” list.
Brian,
Yeah, all of us have a dark side. Mine’s purely malevolent.
So, I understand somewhat the dark side of LRH, which makes studying his works easier to comprehend. I’ve read all the negative biographies and read all the basic horror stories about him on the internet. So, when I’m reading his stuff or listening to his lectures, I can just dismiss many of his sidebars and stories as irrelevant. The dark intent comes out.
And I feel comfortable rejecting it as relevant.
Back in the early fifties when he was studying the tone scale, he more than once joked about how gruesome it was finding himself low on the tone scale. He wasn’t putting on airs or setting himself up as a model to be studied and worshipped. Some of his comments are downright 1.1.
As for those who are uptight about what emotions are “right” and which are “wrong,” mis-emotion isn’t just having emotions below 2.0, but about displaying emotions inappropriate for the circumstances. Like being enthusiastic when the person you love most dies. Or being angry when someone gives you a gift.
There’s a delicious irony available in being 1.1 which doesn’t exist with other emotions. Being 1.1 can be a lot of fun. But, that tone level has gotten so much bad press that we avoid it like it was an infected flea. Tentatively, we recognize that there are times when we can be angry. Just maybe. And maybe there are times when we can grieve. Just maybe. But, to be 1.1? Oh my God! No!!!!!!!!! That would be horrible!!!
With that in mind, I don’t give the “dark side” much validation. Mostly, it’s just another door to understanding.
Michael
Wow Brian. Too awesome for words.
A clear post expanding on the Tampabay article/video.
Brian. The dude.
That’s one powerful piece of writing there. It resonates with truth in a similar way that music can resonate with a being, as some one above noted – it’s practically art. You’re a real decent being Brian, and thanks for your courage.
When I was a very young lad, Pete Townsend of The Who spoke for me and said with music and lyrics what I couldn’t, in a way that I wasn’t able to express. Many times reading blog articles here or contributions from other posters I have similar moments: “Oh Yeah – THAT’s what I wanted to say” – kinda like a cognition I guess. The anguish Jimmy was going through trying to find himself in Quadrophenia being a perfect example… hope ya’ll don’t mind indulging me with a rehab here….
Call me any time, my friend. I’m here for you….xoxo
Great post Brian!
I was thinking today about a couple things. One is the reference from the PTS/SP course on creating antagonism. The church has once again thrown out LRH and loves to create its own antagonism, which it then uses as a “reason” for fighting and pillaging. Nothing like widely distributed use of evaluation, invalidation and wrong indications to make someone antagonistic (“anyone who speaks out are all SPs,”, “Not giving money or thinking that harsh punishment is wrong is just a ser-fac”, etc., etc.).
Also, think of how many antisocial characteristics that the church portrays under Davey-boy: Deals mainly in bad news (the world is going to end and we’re the only ones who can save it if you don’t give us everything now) critical or hostile remarks, invalidation and general suppression (you’re not really an OT, or even Clear, you’re out-ethics, you’re an SP, you can’t speak to your friends or family, etc.); bad sense of property, nothing is ever really owned (you should go into huge debt to give everything to the church, including your children, who cares if you lose your house, it’s only MEST, you go bankrupt raising money for the new Idull Morgue and then we take it from you anyway, etc.); speaks in broad generalities (all “psychs” are evil, all anons are evil, you’re all SPs, etc.); and there are obviously so many more examples, these were just off the top of my head, and that doesn’t even touch the other lies, theft, imprisonment, etc.
It’s going to take some serious 3rd Dynamic processing to get rid of the heavily implanted false data and atrocities that reside within that group.
“It’s going to take some serious 3rd Dynamic processing to get rid of the heavily implanted false data and atrocities that reside within that group.”
Thanks to Marty and others we’re already successfully auditing out the 3rd dynamic engram for ourselves here in the Independent field. This auditing isn’t reaching staff and hard core kool-aid drinkers because their ethics are too far out. They’ve become heavily PTS, out-of-valence robots, and it may take a long time to get them out of that.
Meanwhile, in terms of our own ethics, the Danger is not that the Church exists, or that it’s been taken over by DM. We can afford to let it whither and die slowly, which will surely happen as a result of the continued exposure of DM’s crimes. What we can’t afford to let die is Standard Tech. Those of us who experienced REAL Scientology in the 60′s and 70′s are getting up in years. We MUST train the next generation of REAL Scientologists now while we still can.
So, here’s a radical thought: Why not just plant a full-blown Independent Scientology org right in the middle of Los Angeles, and get the Standard Tech show back on the road? I say Los Angeles because that’s where more Scientologists (in, out, and ex) live than anywhere else in the world. An Independent org there would fill up fast, and over time would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was on-source while the Church was not. People would have two quite tangible alternatives on which to do a Doubt formula, and would vote with their feet. The exodus from the Church would accelerate tremendously.
The key to doing this successfully would be legal ruds, so our org would be invulnerable to OSA suppression. I’ve never seen a definitive, authoritative white paper on the legal ruds necessary to safely deliver Scientology outside the Church. I think the lack of such a report has been holding us back.
That’s been OK in the past, as the last 2 years of our own 3rd dynamic auditing has been the higher priority. But at this point, I think that many of us are ready to start thinking more about the future than the past. We’re ready to act. So, now we need to know with certainty how to do that safely. We need an Independent Scientology delivery org legal ruds complete hat write-up.
Any lawyers (or former Church legal staffers) out there care to comment?
Kassapa,
The legal ruds hat write up is very short and is contained in the Bill of Rights — First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….
There is nothing holding anyone back. Unless you buy the bs from Radical Corporate Scientology.
Mike,
I agree with you regarding the general principle of the First Amendment. However, with all due respect, I want to hear from qualified attorneys on the Church’s “bullshit” issues such as copyright, trademark, trade secrets, etc., and how they play out in the real world, including in court.
I want to know all the details of what to do and not do in order to preserve my rights under the Constitution. If you’ve already gone through this research, in order to come to the conclusion you just stated, can you refer me to the attorneys who helped you with that research? I want certainty.
For example, if an org called itself the Independent Church of Scientology of Southern California, and sold course packs that were xeroxes of Church publications, and issued certs calling people Clear, OT, Hubbard Certified Auditor, and other trademarked states, would that fly? If the First Amendment is all we need, how and why was Mayo’s Advanced Ability Center shut down? And, notwithstanding what the final result would be in court, what would a blatant, big-time delivery org in direct competition with local Church orgs have to go through in terms of legal harassment, and do to defend itself against that harrassment?
The details of these issues concern me, despite the fact that I totally agree with you regarding the First Amendment. I’m confident that a major delivery org could operate legally and safely. I just don’t want to stumble on any legal details because I assumed that the First Amendment rendered them unimportant. I want to have all my i’s dotted and t’s crossed before I embark on setting up such an org or helping someone else to do it.
The small delivery operations already underway have not been an threat to the Church, because they’ve been very small and mostly out in the boondocks. So, it’s understandable that the Church would not bother them too much, given OSA’s diminishing resources. A major org in a major city, intending to have hundreds of public on lines at any one time, and delivering the complete Bridge from bottom to top, and blatantly billing itself as REAL Scientology would be of a lot more interest to OSA. That’s the order of magnitude I’m thinking of.
It’s very common for companies doing due diligence on major new projects to get letters of opinion from legal experts in the fields they are about to enter, to make sure they don’t make any stupid, avoidable mistakes. That kind of legal opinion is what I’m seeking.
So, any attorneys reading this? What do you have to say?
Most of your questions have been answered long ago on this blog. I suggest you spend some time catching up. You can utilize the search feature on the home page if you don’t have the time to read thoroughly.
Marty,
While I’ve been posting only for the last month or so, I’ve followed your blog, and read every word, from the beginning well over 2 years ago. There has never been an authoritative letter of opinion from an actual attorney regarding the full scope of legal ruds necessary to safely run an Independent delivery operation. There have been statements by non-attorneys regarding their conclusions and opinions, which may or may not have been backed up by actual attorney research. But not the real thing from real attorneys that I recall.
As for your search feature, I tried it and came up with nothing useful without hours of further digging.
In my opinion this issue is so important that it deserves a featured link on your website to a page that lays it all out. In the absence of such a link, would anyone who knows the answer please re-state it here, along with how I can communicate directly with the attorney who issued the opinion?
Kassapa,
There is no attorney that has issued an opinion that I am aware of.
Jim Logan’s comment contains sound legal reasoning, especially concerning copying and selling material. My direction to you concerning the First Amendment is the best I can offer.
If you feel the need for a legal opinion from a lawyer, you should get one. But find someone who is an expert on the First Amendment as if you get an opinion based only on run of the mill commercial/intellectual property law it likely won’t be of much use.
All the while you search for a “real attorney” to work out “structure” for your safety, myself and many others across the world continue for years getting the show on the road. Sayanora.
Marty,
I have repeatedly validated what you and many others are doing. Perhaps you are 100% right that anyone could proceed with delivery, even in a big way, and get no legal trouble from the Church. But what could possibly be wrong with someone wanting to verify that in the normal way?
I never thought I’d run into any resistance on this whatsoever. I thought I’d ask my question and receive an answer. Simple. A to B. One more Independent Scientologists (me) de-PTSed a little more, and moving forward with a little more speed. That was my intention and nothing more.
I applaud anyone and everyone brave enough to do ANYTHING to advance our cause. Some of us are braver than others. You clearly are in the lead on that. What you have done in the last 2-3 years has helped me personally in a very, very big way. Thank you!
I don’t know how I could be more “a to b”. I answered your question. Apparently, you just didn’t like the answer.
Kassapa, keeping it real, you got some good answers here but it boils down to that if this is a project you are inspired to create then you should move forward with it. Certainly you should not let a few comments dissuade you from something important that you believe in. Good luck. Let us know how you get on!
disinfected
Furthermore, if you want to become a new Corporate Scientology, keep an eye out for me. I’ll be watching.
Marty,
My idea of the future of Scientology does NOT include having a single over-arching, all-controlling corporate entity sitting above everyone. I support Save Scientology’s effort to reform the Church rather than destroy it, if possible. But I do not support the idea of the Church, or any new Reform Church, having controlling authority over all Scientology delivery operations everywhere.
I support the natural right of each and every Scientologist to associate or not associate with whoever he chooses, and to practice his religion free of any external control from anyone. If I ever end up at the head of a large training operation, all my graduates will be free to do whatever they want to with what they’ve learned. They’ll sink or swim professionally based on how much they help people.
To make an analogy to the Protestant Reformation, (and this is only an analogy and not a comment on the current version of any Christian denomination) I’d like to see the Catholic Church under the Pope reform so it returns to being of actual spiritual benefit to its members, but at the same time I support the freedom of any Christian to start his own Protestant denomination, whether that denomination ends up with thousands of local churches or just one.
With regard to anyone’s interest in seeing large Independent Scientology orgs arise, do you honestly think that tiny operations comprised of one or two field auditors who might also train others a little on the side are going to create enough auditors to make a difference for the planet as a whole? I don’t. I think we need thousands of small-time field auditors, but also major training centers to create them.
Here’s another analogy. I support the right of each Chiropractor to practice his profession however he sees fit. But I’d also like there to be some good Chiropractic Colleges to make more Chiropractors, because I think the public needs them.
The existence of a big Independent Scientology org, with 200 or more students on auditor training like the big orgs and missions of the 70′s, would not be a threat to anyone who wanted to be a lone field auditor. On the contrary, it would create a lot more field auditors. And big training operations are the only way great numbers of additional sole practitioner field auditors ARE going to be produced.
Also, let’s think this through. What if a lone field auditor decided to have his wife supervise some Div 6 courses to attract more pc’s and maybe create an apprentice auditor here or there, too? If this couple structured and ran their Div 6 properly, it would automatically cause their little operation to grow and grow and grow, until it became a big org. How do you think the big orgs and missions of the 70′s GOT big? They all started tiny, did the right things, and BIG happened as a natural consequence. Would you want to inhibit this process in some way?
I TOTALLY agree with you that future Scientologists must be able to avoid control by a central organization, because there’s always the possibility that the central organization could become co-opted by another DM. But that does NOT mean that small-time field auditors shouldn’t grow into large organizations creating hundreds of auditors. If one of those large orgs fell under the control of an SP, its public could just leave and go to another Independent Org that WASN’T controlled by an SP. Orgs delivering Standard Tech would survive, flourish, and prosper, while orgs controlled by SPs would wither and die naturally.
There’s no problem here. Please do “be watching.”
K,
How about this one, and some variations on a theme:
“How can Dave Miscavige, in violation of the Corporate Documents, the TRUST INSTRUMENTS, and such like, of the Founder, L. Ron Hubbard, dictate that a Hierarchal Church, such as ANY “Church of Scientology” take precedence over the Founder’s statement that NO Church of Scientology (including RTC) is “co-terminal” with SCIENTOLOGY?”
I mean, these are SECULAR documents Your Honor, and as such are wide-open to interpretation by the Court, not being protected by the Wall of the First Amendment and the proscriptions inherent in it, so can be investigated searchingly to find whether or not it’s a Corporate Sham, and an attempt at cover up by various and sundry lawyer types and so on.
Or this one:
“Hey Dave, how come LRH says, in secular dox, that:It is the belief of the Church that Scientology is the organization of the fundamentals of
existence into axioms and workable technologies in the tradition of the exact sciences for
resolving problems of life and thought and for the freedom of the human spirit. That he who asks a question is closest to the answer, that every question contains its own answer, and further that every problem contains its own solution, and that the technologies of Scientology are of such a nature that a person with a question or a problem may be spiritually assisted or guided to the end that the person is able to answer his own questions and resolve his own problems. “Scientology Technology” is a body of truths and methods of application, developed by L. Ron Hubbard from his observations and research, which when correctly applied can reveal the soul of man, extend his knowledge of the infinite Being to him, and make known what is knowable about God. (CST Bylaws Article III).
Stuff like this, it’s hard for Dave to answer, without going into the Trusts, the Corporate Structure (see savescientology.com) and so on and so forth. He has a bunch of lawyers working to cover up the Corporate shenanigans, but so did Richard Nixon, Enron, and, and…
Kassapa,
Generally speaking, I can’t say there anything I disagree with about what you say. Mostly, I am just very impressed since your 1st comment on this weblog.
I originally thought a centralized Indie “physical” delivery location would be a great idea in LA or CW, but I don’t think so today. Simply put, it may not be the “safest” place to deliver LRH’s tech to PCs and Pre-OTs because there so many Corporate Scientology PTS people around to interrupt sessions. Witness the Squirrel Busters exported to a “remote” location off the end of the earth like Marty and Mosey’s place (no offense intended, Marty and Mosey) in Ingelside by the Bay, TX… it is a beautiful place, but very, very hard place to get to. Imagine the turmoil in LA… or CW… Ugh.
Anyway, there is lots of Indie delivery is going on today. Mostly auditing and some training. And, we need to increase it! Agreed!
Along that line of thinking you proposed, it might be a better idea to have well thought-out and well advertized theta advertizements in LA and CW about Indies delivery?
The legal issues of delivery you mention are critically important, but all we say here is monitored by OSA, so nothing beyond a cursory legal statement will be made here for sure…
Kassapa, I just love your comments. Nice clear headed thinking. Wish I could write as well as you! Thanks for the inspiration. It no doubt comes from lots of perspiration in study.
Robert,
Re setting up a major delivery org in LA, of course there’s more potential for disruption by kool-aiders. But there’s also more potential for getting customers.
My idea is to get the legal ruds in totally, set up physically in a way that would minimize any potential disruption, and know in advance what disruption might occur and be prepared to handle it.
Beyond taking such sensible precautions, wouldn’t it be PTS and flowing power to DM to allow him to keep us out of the most fertile market for Scientology in the whole world? At some point we’re going to have to confront the bully head on and tell him we’re not afraid of him anymore. Putting an Independent org in LA would do that. We could even capitalize on attempted disruption by turning that into another PR footbullet for DM. And think how de-PTSing it would be for Independent Scientologists everywhere to make this org successful.
I like your idea of “well thought-out and well advertized theta advertizements in LA and CW about Indies delivery.” This would be like dropping leaflets behind enemy lines to let the people and the underground resistance know that the Allies are coming. It would build for several months before the org opened. It would scare the bejeesus out of DM.
Just like a corporate scientologist, structure monitoring function. Thought is peon.
The only differences being that the function is to train auditors, setting thought free, that Kassapa pays for the structure which serves to dePTS sheeple and protect the Tech by providing auditor training in volume.
Huh? Show me. Corporate Scientology is all about talking the talk. Independent Scientology is all about walking the walk. Right now, your OL is an anonymous cyber figment of your imagination who has done little more than attempt to invalidate and alienate three of the most positive contributors to this forum. Show me.
What? The Dianetic Axioms state that Theta conquers MEST and then uses the conquered MEST as tools to conquer more MEST. That IS function monitoring structure. Could you be doing what you’re doing at Casa Blanca out of a pup tent, with no emeter and no internet connection? You use structure every day to assist your function. You even got larger quarters once really underway.
If I were to help start a delivery operation anywhere, it would begin with small, downstat quarters and almost no admin. Tech, tech, tech all the way. Function, function, function. As the success of function pulled in more customers, I’d enlarge my structure. Eventually, my dinky little store would become Wal-Mart.
“Function monitors structure” doesn’t mean “no structure.” My talking about bigger structures is not meant to discourage anyone from moving forward. It’s meant to ENCOURAGE moving forward past the stage where virtually no structure is required. It doesn’t invalidate the steps that have been taken. It’s just suggesting a possible next step.
See my comment in this thread about walking the walk. Again, read the entire blog. Your attempting to lecture me about how the principle “function monitors structure” works is about as absurd as Miscavige lecturing Scientology public on what L Ron Hubbard’s intentions were.
Marty,
This thread illuminates a fascinating point. Corporatization of spiritual salvation and freedom. I don’t know Kassapa, but his posts read like he is a business person, and his strategy reads somewhat like a hostile takeover of Scientology profit centers. He uses interesting phrases like “we will start off in downstat quarters”, a concept that has nothing to do with spiritual growth. I don’t know anyone genuinely looking for personal growth that is concerned with more than neat, clean safe quarters and a peaceful environment … and many are repulsed by opulence.
It makes half business sense to start up an independent organization near a major Scientology hub to poach their public, especially if the new entity is not good at introducing new people to the subject. David Mayo and the AAC did that and were phenomenally successful for a short while. It doesn’t make business sense when you consider a significant sized fixed target directly competing head on with one of the most legally and morally brutal organizations in the world, with billions in cash reserves, playing their game on their turf. No significant attorney will give a legal blessing to such because of the liability against them personally if COS efforts destroy them. Attorneys will always advice in a way protecting their own ass. Any such evolution would have to occur from people saying “this is my constitutional right”. Responding as appropriate to the almost certain COS attacks.
Further, creating a central type organization would be a prime target for infiltration, if you are recruiting masses directly from an enemy it is virtually impossible to prevent infiltration. Unfortunately Mayo learned this when he had key confidants, accounting personnel and even CF personnel reporting everything to RTC on a daily and weekly basis in the mid 80s.
It then leads to the question whether a corporate structure or business techniques are even compatible with spiritual enlightenment. Price lists for going free? Organizations operating on balance sheets and income statements, managing towards increased profits and their own protection … I don’t know that this is even kharmicly compatible with spiritual evolution.
Knowing lots of people doing lots of things, I am personally convinced that your model is the best to date: Pay me what you can afford, and what you think my help was worth. A metaphorical donation box for people to privately give as they see fit, no pressure, and no status to bigger and smaller donations.
Michael,
Thanks. Always like to see your business take on things. You noted: “It doesn’t make business sense when you consider a significant sized fixed target directly competing head on with one of the most legally and morally brutal organizations in the world, with billions in cash reserves, playing their game on their turf.” You know what it would require as do I: a lot of seed money. And I guarantee you, though he will never acknowledge it now that I have called him out, that that would have been the next pitch we would have heard, Mr. K diverting Independents’ funds – meager as they are after being raped by Corporate Scientology – from the frugal, smart, in-exchange fashion in which they are naturally flowing. The problem Miscavige has is that I know him better than he knows himself.
Marty
Marty, you got me here. You’d be my first OL, if any, but Kassapa comes with a solution to the problem of no auditors made. What’s yours, keep auditing at prices people can afford and forget the importance of LRH policy regarding training and exchange? Never delivering any training to the largest concentration of prospects that is aware they need and want it? But you’re right about the identity of Kassapa….
Make auditors. Which his trolling activities are interrupting at the moment. Oh, gotta get back to supervise some more drilling. Tah tah
Kassapa
Sorry, I cannot help you with the “legal ruds” issue.
But besides that, I had a few things I wanted to mention in regards to your posts on this thread.
I suspect that you are right. It would seem that larger organizations would have a good chance of increasing the pace of securing the future of the Technologies of Dianetics and Scientology by creating more well trained auditors.
I do actually think, though, that we are actually on the correct path here and likely even the correct gradient. I really feel that what is going to be the most effective approach to rebuilding access to the “bridge”, is going to be a “from-the-bottom-up” approach.
We are already having successes with this, though the groups tend to be fairly small so far, but as the bonds and agreements that form true groups are established, these groups will inevitably grow, if they follow the “conditions” and and offer REAL Scientology.
I suspect that as this “grass roots” evolution takes place, we will see “field auditors” becoming small groups, small groups growing or combining to form larger groups, and then on to significant organizations, if that is what is needed and wanted.
Regarding the “needed and wanted” aspect. I have observed that although putting together a large organization has been forwarded on several occasions on this blog, there has been little real reach so far. Timing seems to be a large factor in this.
My guess is that many here have not “decompressed” or handled their “third Dynamic engram” sufficiently to be quite willing to move out that boldly. Many are still “putting their lives back together.” Some are still quite “gun shy”. For many, it was never one of their purposes in the first place. Logistics and “legal ruds” issues are likely also involved in some cases, but with the right person(s), at the right time, and we are sure to see some magic happen.
Through this blog, and several others, the fractured Theta is reuniting… your help is appreciated.
Eric S
I agree with you, Windhorse, that we are on the right gradient now. If we just keep doing what we are doing, things will evolve organically. We all need to keep on applying whatever condition we are in on all dynamics and gradually, we will move up..
Eric,
Any Independent mission or org I help start WILL be “bottom up.” Small, downstat quarters to begin with. Tech emphasis with minimal admin. Just like the REAL Scientology missions and orgs of the 60′s when people were first coming back from doing the SHSBC.
Yes, some of this is already happening around the country. But it’s 95% auditing and only 5% training. That auditing is needed, of course, but LRH always said to push training. So, when I say “org” I mean a major training center.
Yes, many of us aren’t ready for this step. But some of us are. I’ve been hearing some rumblings on the grapevine about that recently. And it must come eventually. Where we can go wrong, in my opinion, is to wait for someone else to do it, or for it to “just happen.” Or, to put it another way, my posts about this issue are evidence that it IS “just happening,” right now. Not the actual opening of our Independent Org, but communication about it.
I know the issue has come up and died on this blog before. Well, it will keep coming up and dying until one day it comes up and LIVES. Why not now?
I’m just trying to find out who’s ready to at least talk about it. Anyone who is, please let me know.
Kassapa,
It would be helpful for you to give an email address for anyone who wishes to join you in this endeavor. You are concerned about what RCS may do legally. I would be more concerned about informing them of planning — an open forum like this is not the place to discuss such plans. If you are intending to do something, it will give you the best chance of success.
Mike,
Thanks for the good advice. I only meant to stir up some thought and discussion. Plans for actual doingness would naturally be confidential, and I have had such confidential discussions with some posters to this blog already. If all goes well I’ll expand that early next year and post an email address as you suggest.
Great post Eric.
Kassapa,
I fully agree with your ideas about delivery of actual auditor training in LA by well trained old timers, independently and in large volume. I think it’s about the safest and surest way to protect the Tech. You will have an instant customer base of about 300 Indies (those that signed the petition) which will easily grow to the degree that Scientology is delivered. As for Davey and his Squirrel Bastards, you can only hope they show up and make lots of free promotion for you, not only for the media to catch up but especially for the sheeple to wake up to the fact that someone is actually delivering and that there’s an alternative at a fair price. It’s also the ultimate weapon against Davey’s disconnection onslaught because getting disconnected in LA then yields more friends than are lost. I don’t think it’s smart to copy Davey’s materials but better use those of Jim and Dan, not only to avoid trademark suits but just to be standard. If Davey is so stupid as to sue you, it’ll be a wonderful chance to have the courts decide if he is delivering Scientology or the exact opposite, implants. I think you’ll be successful to the degree that $$$ and power are considered less important and expansion is done without ownership but by training high quality high volume independent auditors that play a good game in the field.
Erwin,
Thanks for your support. I agree with everything you said.
I got some ideas on how to make a nice game in the field where everyone exept Davey wins. When you’re ready, mail me: erwincroughs@hotmail.com
I don’t get it. Seven minutes before inviting me to email you about your ideas for a field game in which everyone but DM wins, you posted a reply to Marty saying that you agree with him that I’m DM, or at least a bot under his control. Please clarify.
Read my post: I never said you’re a bot. I think your solution is good and there’s no way a troll could think with that, let alone articulate it, let alone in proper English. I do think however that you should make yourself known.
Quote: “I support Save Scientology’s effort to reform the Church rather than destroy it, if possible. ”
Kassapa, it is NOT possible. That’s what many, like you, must come to realize. There is a single cause and reason why the most egregious departures from real Scientology will never be corrected in the current church – David Miscavige. All checks and balances, both corporately and contained in the tech, have been nullified or subverted by him. He has re-created the church in his own image, and THAT is the cause of their current woes.
Until you realize that, you are wasting your time. He will never allow reform, because to acknowledge even an inkling of its necessity in the current church would be considered an attack on little Davey. Anyone who even breathes a whiff of such thought is either (if an SO member) sent to North-Korea style re-education camp, or (if a public) pounded into themselves with Black Dianetics so they will NEVER reach in that direction again. Those who don’t succumb are the ones you see here on this blog.
Read this blog and the HUNDREDS of stories illustrating what I mention above. The church is dead. While its corporate structure may last for a while longer, it is no longer Scientology.
NSY,
I agree with you 100% except for one thing. Save Scientology is totally dedicated to the removal of DM from all of the corporate entities and boards diagrammed on their website. Then the structure LRH intended may work. Also, they’re not stuck on that structure having monopolistic control of all of Scientology. If they were in favor of monopoly or of leaving DM in any exec position, I wouldn’t support them for a second.
Kassapa,
One of the issues covered on this blog that directly relates to the questions you have concerns “trademarks”. Not copyrights, as in the example you give of xeroxing and then SELLING the xeroxes, as that violates “fair use”. But in terms of practicing Scientology, calling it such, having Auditors, Clears, OTs and so on.
There is a principle known as “unclean hands”, it is in the body of law that deals with “equity”, that is, what is fair and just.
Say Dave were to send the dogs after a guy like me, delivering Scientology services and openly saying so and doing so for a couple of years now. Well there’s “laches”, and that lack of timely notice and proceeding to protect the marks, as well as this fact: I have every right under the Constitution to practice my religious philosophy and do so outside the “church” of Dave because he has “unclean hands” and has perverted the practice, as well as said I cannot practice my chosen applied religious philosophy – Scientology.
I am a Scientologist, by definition, and yet Dave says I can’t say that, well to be accurate he DID say that, but I’ve been saying it so long now, openly and he’s done nothing about it, that he has nothing TO do about it. Except he can sue me. IF HE DOES, then there’s that pesky issue of “unclean hands” and all the DISCOVERY of that nature of those UNCLEAN HANDS that would inevitably come out. That leads to “what’s up with all that excess benefit shit Dave?” and “What about the Doctrine of Exchange you touted to the Supreme Court, Dude?” and ” How come the IAS is a requisite to service in the Church, when you told the IRS it wasn’t and, well, there ain’t NO LRH on it and that’s kinda weird, isn’t it? DAVE?”
You get the idea.
I think, in the offing, larger practices will emerge, and indeed are in the beginning stages at this time. Will they sell copyrighted material? Nope. Will they provide Scientology services, including Auditor training, and the Bridge? Yep.
Will Dave go after them? Not a frikkin’ chance. Because then, HE will be legally “discovered” and THAT is what keeps him as he is, a feckless dictator over a shrinking space that is getting more solid and is presently responding like a tuning fork to the shit storm of “THAT’S ENOUGH”.
Thanks, Jim. That’s very helpful.
This whole thread is pretty funny. You have to ask yourself, “Is Kassapa completely unaware that the show has been on the road since 1982?”
Yes Lynne, but the ever present fact remains and is a point being made (and Marty is presently MAKING THEM) – we need MORE auditors, which is training.
There are indeed islands of sanity, outside the pernicious influence of David Miscavige. Div 5 is coming into being as well, and with the intention to get trained and do a good job of auditing, In Tech is blossoming.
Lynne,
Of course I’m aware that delivery has been occuring in the Freezone since 1982. But it’s been pretty small. David Mayo’s operation was taken out by OSA. Sarge Gerbode’s settlement with the Church allowed him to repackage the Academy Levels and NED in totally psychological terminology and train “facilitators,” which he has done with some success. But he doesn’t deliver the upper bridge, and trains his “facilitators” in seminars rather than “what is a course.” The only other significant training operation I’m aware of from the 80′s is the Rons Orgs in Europe, which seem to have been nicely successful. But nothing in the Freezone arose to rival the success the Church had in the 7o’s, when the most successful missions and orgs had more than 200 students on professional auditor training at any one time.
Hey Brian, good words, aligning well and true with what that horror of an organisation does and the facade of the past and its false pretend future it hides behind.
I find it an agony that Flag and RCS and their satelites, (the Orgs) hide behind the term Scientology. They have nothing of Scientology in them. The time is well past when knowing how to know ceased in such places – you are very right and the greatest truth of all is that they make no auditors and hence get NO results.
Such simplicity of greed and betrayal are easily ignored apparently and takes great courage to confront or break free from… I often wonder why others can’t relate the simple warnings written in KSW to the actions of those who control the Church. It’s mind numbing their stupidity and it is the greatest obstacle that Organisation has ever created.
Your stand and words shine in that darkness.
Sherb, I was listening to the lecture titled “The factors” and it shed some light on your KSW point.
“The reason people do bad things is because they have a deep-seated fear. Bad action stems from fear. A person has to be pretty well up the Tone Scale before he can be ethical. Therefore, the road to ethics was the road which led out of fear. Any man who could be put in fear sufficiently, theoretically could be made to do anything. As long as that condition existed, how could you have a society which would operate on an ethical level?
But what if this person cannot be penalized in such a way as to cause him to do bad acts? There is no profit in doing bad acts.”
Those still in the church are constantly threatened with fear of losing. Whether that be the bridge itself, their financial security, their business connections or their families, that fear is very real to them.
I think that when it comes to KSW, many people have committed the act of ommission rather than commission. Some overtly blow and others do it covertly by withdrawing quietly. In both cases, a person gets a chance to create space between themselves and the church and in doing so, they start to come up tone. The fear isn’t quite so threatening and some even dare to look again. I still vividly remember the first time I looked at the SP Times articles and when I first dared to look at Marty’s blog how I felt like I was doing something wrong. Eventually, I found a post that compelled me to comment and I conscientiously thought “here goes” as I pushed the “post comment” button, knowing that things would never be the same. I was doing something dangerous…quite a bit different from being afraid to do.
As more and more truth becomes known one’s ability to confront comes up and they can take responsibility for those earlier ommissions and can start to do things they couldn’t do earlier. They communicate about their observations, experiences and concerns…blowing more charge along the way. They might come out publicly or disseminate their concerns widely such as the in case with A Letter From Garcia or with all the media interviews ( Brian, Christie, Valeska, Chris, etc.) done in the past two years. With each step the person is less and less able to be penalized and is more able to apply KSW, personally.
Marty, Mike, Jim, etc. have, through their actions shown that there is nothing to fear. That by applying the tech as LRH intended and having clean hands one can be free from the need to commit bad acts. Others have observed this to be true and realize that they have come up scale enough to “no longer be penalized” and as a result you see a much clearer application of KSW in the Independent field than you do in the church.
Karen, you sure hit my nail on the head with that!
Brian,
Thanks for your message. It really communicates.
You covered a lot of ground, but your truths resonate with me:
“Vulnerability is pounced on and exploited.
Basic decency is looked on with disgust.
Sincere happiness and fulfillment is repudiated.”
My first introduction to Scientology, the LRH version, was remarkable. But as I joined staff and later the SO, I found an atmosphere that did pounce on vulnerability, discredit basic decency and repudiate sincere happiness.
As I peel apart this onion, it is now my belief that this culture is one enforced by Miscavige. Not to say that there weren’t vulnerable people being exploited before his reign, there were. If you had money, you were fair game. The viewpoint is that Scientology needed it more than you did and would put it to better use, so no overt in wresting it from you.
But deeper than that is the part about decency and happiness. Under DM, decency is viewed as reasonableness, being weak. The common phrase was “get with it, or get rolled over by it”. Follow DMs orders, despite their insanity, or face the consequences.
Express happiness? You must be glib, you are not confronting. How can you be happy when DM is working tirelessly. There was a almost Arayan ideal for an SO member. Compassion, respect, joy, independent thought, were not part of any model being pushed in by him.
From DM, through the SO, and now permeating through the OT Ambassadors. Like a cancer it engulfs Scientology.
It would be bad enough if we were talking about some multi-level marketing scene, but we are describing what is supposed to be a religion.
As I have stated before, DM’s crusade is to kill Scientology in the name of “saving” it. To convert any theta or truth that LRH expressed and to turn it into an extortion racket. So clear to see once one removes himself from that suppressive machine.
In any case, thanks for your post. You write as well as you shoot a basketball..
Mark
Your writing is powerful Brian, very well written!! Also SHAME on the Scientology community – the public – for accepting so easily, the lies the church tells on a daily basis and for not having the courage to step outside their comfort zone and take a real look at what’s going on!! Shame on them for forwarding all the libelous rumors about people who have had the courage to stand up and say NO MORE, I’ve had enough! Regardless of the brain washing or mind control techniques that we’ve all been subject to, ALL people have a gut feeling, an innate sense of what’s right and wrong and that is being ignored by everyone who is still IN Scientology.
You need to differentiate just what and who is being brainwashed and who is doing the brainwashing. A lot of crap exists about how LRH was only brainwashing people, how the entire bridge is a gradient process of deeper and deeper brainwashing starting with TR0. I was in Scientology sporadically from 1970 until 1982 or so, and I never once was exposed to brainwashing. Mostly, I felt myself waking up and becoming more aware.
Brian,
I was in for twenty years. But it seems as if you’ve just taught me a few things in your one year that I can grow from.
Thanks for your post here.
Bryan
Having got to know Brian very well after he spent several weeks with me and a friend in our city a while ago, I can say I’m even more proud to call him a friend. He speaks the total truth and he can count on me for any support he needs in the future. Go get ‘em Brian. I think you should run for President.
Gerard, I know you are reading this. It is shameful that you protect COB. Wake up! I know you love LRH. Make a choice.
Brian,
You speak Truth. And Truth is so Freeing.
And yes,
“Shame on you Corporate Scientology for what you have done.”
Brian and Laura Ann,
“Shame on you Corporate Scientology for what you have done.
For the abuse to legitimate whistleblowers and critics, for the harassment of your own, for your fundamental disrespect to the spiritual seeker, for the lies, for the theft, the betrayal.”
and “”Truth is so Freeing.”
We all entered this game along the way to become more of who we are. What we find is who we are and this may or may not fit what the current assumed beingnesses of individuals on their post think it should be.
Brian, you have demonstrated you were a successful being before you even stepped foot into the Tampa airport. Your incredibly well written post above and the wording of Laura Ann’s comments about truth and freeing made me think of this video.
Many have touched upon truth. What Scientology had to offer was the means to achieve the awareness of the truth. The stop and alteration in the application of that means, along with the win’s of the thousands who are denied it, are so shameful. I have not posted for a while but this has impinged to the heart of what I hold so dear. Truth and the freedom as a being – and all that this awareness allows and forwards. Thank you both.
Enjoy this youtube video. It has always resonated with me. It gave wording to part of what invited me to move on the bridge in the first place.
SA
Thank you for sharing this beautiful video.
Wow…
Thanks.
“The truth can cut through 16-inch amour plate..”
Sir, your truth can cut through 16-mile amour plate!
Very well spoken!
Thank you!
FN
Great article, Brian.
Powerful, truthful and sincere. Thanks for being here.
Brian; well spoken. Your passion is loud and clear.
You article jolted me into thinking that most of the vocal posters and commenters on this blog are OT or have had a lot of auditing. I think this blog alone proves how well auditing works. I believe that auditing and OT sections have freed us all up enough that we SEE what is going on and then we DO something about it.
Scientology makes free beings.
There are a shitload of OT VIIs and OT VIIIs out there siting on the fence. They know something is wrong and they see it and they have quit giving money to the church in their own little quiet defiance. The point is that they are freed up enough to see it and have stopped contributing to the monster.
Quite a fascinating conundrum for the CofS.
Tom M
Tom,
So, you have to ask yourself (if you’re an OT still in the church), “I’ve just done OT8 and this is the result….hmmmm…do I really think my eternity is jeopardized by speaking out? Why am I allowing that little shit to suppress my communication? Severe my affinity? Enforce my reality? Why? Is this the results I was hoping for? Is this what I want my friends to experience, what I want my children to experience?” And on and on.
When does evaluation of outcome lead to realization and decision?
Being OT in RCS means no data to compare, means no thinking outside RCS, means obeying to survive, means slavery. A very good eye opener could come in the form of independent delivery of real Scientology in volume, right under their noses at a fraction of the costs.
Erwin,
Hell, let’s deliver a little higher: right in front of their eyeballs. Let them get a good look.
Brilliant and well stated. I would however like to say that the term “Corporate” Scientology that has been coined in this blog makes my cringe a bit. I understand the context and intent and that the COS in its current form and practice is certainly more a business if you define such as the mere pursuit of money. The political left has endeavored to transform the word “corporate” into a pejorative term generally to represent the excesses and inherent evils of capitalism and to define virtue as the pursuit of altruistic ideals. Certainly there are unethical and evan criminal Corporate entities, but the market typically doles out its own from of street justice…see Enron as an example which died a quick death once the credit markets determined it was not viable.
It’s really just a legal distinction that represents a form of organization in a market based system. I would say the COS is operating very consistently with that of most large organized religious institutions just more extreme in its methods. In other words it is very much a church in the tradition of the Catholic Church with its long history amassing wealth, the LDS Church with tis extensive assets derived from 10% tithing, Islam which runs the most unstable region of the world, etc…
The distinction is that there are many corporations large and small that provide a valuable service or product in an ethical and legal manner and the COS is nothing more than a scam that uses coercion to extract wealth from its members.
Ayn Rand in much of her fiction and non-fiction work warned of the supposed altruist organizations (organized religion being at the top of the list) that tout a cause as a guise for fleecing, amassing power and trampling individual and human rights in the name of what’s best for the group. So what if you have to break a few eggs and bash a few skulls…we are clearlng a planet here!
I would submit that most large organized religions are to a greater or lesser degree fronts for amassing wealth and power in the name of helping. Business are committed to the unabashed pursuit of profit for the specific gain for the shareholders. Ironically, individuals and groups tend to fare better by every objective statistical measure under some version of a far from perfect market system vs. a centrally controlled system either run by a theocracy or some other form of statism.
Spiritual development and enlightenment is at best an individual pursuit better served by a free market delivery system of independent practicing Scientologists. So I for one am not holding out for the disposition of COB and in its place a more benevolent from of the “Corporate” Church. It should be liquidated with as much of the assets returned to the fleeced field that bought into the Ponzi scheme, and give COB a cell next to Madoff.
I disagree that the term ‘corporate’ is a legal distinction.
There is a grassroots movement at the moment, where people are waking up and realizing that this dream that has been sold to them, and which they have been pursuing, is not all it’s cracked up to be. The guy working 12 hour days to support his family is now being told he is going to have to work longer until retirement, pay more in taxes for less. People don’t believe the line that, ‘we are in this together’ meanwhile the bankers continue to get their bonuses despite being bailed out by taxpayers money. It’s the capitalization of profit and the socialization of loss, so there goes the concept of the market based system.
But it’s an interesting point as far as market forces and the survival of Scientology. Personally I am uncomfortable with monetary values dictating the value of something. If the VFP is GI, and that’s what you’re saying if you jump on board the market forces boat, then what about services that are valuable, yet don’t generate GI, such as co audits?
So, I don’t subscribe to the market dictates bandwagon.
But think that Scientology is getting back to its grassroots as a philosophy based system that WORKS. People are setting up groups, auditing and training. It’s safe to practice Scientology.
Good post, Economist.
Sure “Corporate” is a legal term. However, as a veteran of many organizations and corporations, the key issue people have with corporations is that they are soulless. A corporation is a legal entity – and that is all it is. But, they are entities. They live in terms of branding, agreements, and actions done on their behalf. There is no one alive who was around at the founding of Standard Oil or General Motors, and yet they live on, and have a time track, etc.
The objection to “corporations” is that so much is done “for the good of the shareholders (or stakeholders),” which really means, for the existence of the corporation AT THE POTENTIAL EXPENSE OF ANYONE LIVING WHO HAS ANY INTERACTION WITH IT. This means: Customers, employees, managers, people who live in and around their plants and locations, people who are affected by the use of their products by others.
Corporations cheapen products because it “helps the bottom line” which enriches their shareholders at the potential expense of their customers (and those non-customers that are affected by shoddy/dangerous products, like toothpaste with diethylene glycol, toxic wallboard for houses, or paper-thin metal for cars).
Corporations sell ANYTHING which is not illegal. Unethical or dangerous does not enter the picture, and the only thing holding some corporations back from selling nuclear waste or selling crack-cocaine cigarettes is that the LAW prevents it.
Corporations lay off employees – i.e. people – because it shaves a few bucks from the bottom line, making a cheap “profit” for them for the quarter.
Corporations and the people who run them have a saying that comes straight out of The God Father: “It ain’t personal, it’s business.”
The whole AND ONLY purpose for a corporation is to “make money for the share-holders”. THAT IS IT. NOT to make a good product, NOT to make lives better for people, but to MAKE A BUCK. SOME corporations fulfill the dream of bucks by making good products, MANY OTHERS fulfill the buck dream by selling toxins to people, or porn, or munitions to third-world dictatorships, or by selling bogus loans to the US.
So “corporate” in this sense means the soul-less and never-ending quest for the almighty buck, and damn the collateral damage. That is truly the CofM’s main purpose. That is the purpose of Corporate Scientology.
+1 billion smackers!
Also, I have to disagree with the statement that “most large organized religions are … fronts for massing wealth and power in the name of helping.” In my dealings with people in churches both large and small, I have been astounded by their generosity and sincerity. Even in the CofM, I would submit that virtually ALL members are sincere in their beliefs and in their desire to help people. I argue that DM’s perversion of the church is the exception rather than the rule.
The Mormons are incredibly sincere and very helpful. I’d be one myself, except that I disagree with their theology. Jewish organizations, Catholic Charities, other religious charities – are sincere. Islam has a strong tradition of charity.
I don’t agree with the theologies and beliefs of these religions, but that does not mean that they are not sincere in their beliefs and in their desire to help. There are very few real organized religions that are truly “fronts” for gathering wealth.
For-profit corporations, on the other hand, are all fronts for gathering wealth
Hey Grasshopper – I think if you talked to some ex-Mormons or ex-Jehova Witnesses you will find that the corporate structure of their “churches” are very simular to corporate Scn. The mind control, the conditioning, the brain washing it’s all there. I suggest reading Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan.
A most excellent post.
Hey Brian, I REALLY enjoyed this post of yours! It contains an enormous quantity of condensed down insight (noesis). I particularly resonated to this statement:
“I do not need Scientology in the exact same way Scientology is not owed to me. And if I ever do decide to use Scientology again it will be for the sole purpose of the betterment of other individuals and thus myself. I am who I am. With or without.”
Certainly, an expression of noesis that fills the universe.
Then, there’s this deeply meaningful quote that you included from Sivanada:
“There is something good in all seeming failures. You are not to see that now. Time will reveal all. Be patient.”
Ah…yes, Sivanada knows. There is no such thing as failure. EVERYTHING serves enlightenment. How could it not? There is no such thing as bad or evil. Dark and Light are but two faces of the same coin. Two expressions from the same Source. The summation of all the horribleness that Corporate Scientology has, is and will deliver to its flock of believers and followers is actually pushing them, each and all towards enlightenment. Each one is choosing to experience the experience just as they need and want it to be. And this “horribleness” will continue until it has fulfilled its purpose. And the purpose is always to serve enlightenment. ALL is in Divine order. If one does not see or recognize this then they just haven’t zoomed out far enough to view the Big Picture.
……………
“You can always assume that other people are lying or confused but when your own experience, consistently and on demand, carries you to a logically and scientifically inescapable conclusion, the truth of that experience will demand a larger and deeper understanding of the reality in which you exist. Simply labeling the [occurrence, circumstance, event] as something experienced by the delusional, the diabolical, the weird, and the wacky will no longer provide an easy way out of dealing with the existence of a reality that flies in the face of your deepest beliefs and assumptions.”
~Tom Campbell from his My Big TOE Tilogy pg.131 (available for free on Google Books)
Good and evil at the level of who wins the game are, as you say, just a consideration, and attaching too firmly to one side or the other is just aberration. But good and evil in terms of enhancing or suppressing the ABILITY of others to PLAY the game is ACTUAL good and evil.
All beings are basically good, but they can choose to fall away from that. The “event horizon” leading to their falling into the black hole is when winning any particular game seems to necessitate reducing the ability of others to play games in general. Once one makes the decision to harm others in that way, he IS evil. He can still recover, but until he does, he IS evil.
To consider otherwise is to be what LRH called a “namby-pamby dilletante.”
Kassapa, our perspectives with regard to good and evil differ. That’s cool. But this idea that one who considers otherwise to your description re some basic mechanics of evil would be what LRH called a “namby-pamby dilletante”…well, I must say, I really don’t think so. However, I’ll go this far…there certainly were numerous folks in the church who at one time would have agreed with you. Myself included.
I’ve been trying to stay away from Eastern religion in my posts, but …
Attraction and aversion are both aberrative, and both self-created. If one has aversion to evil he can’t as-is evil until he as-ises his aversion to it. But that doesn’t mean he allows evil to continue. Minor evil one can let go. But major evil, that strikes directly at the ability of sentient beings to recover from their self-imposed ignorance and suffering, is another matter.
Would you say that what DM has done to the Church and thousands of Scientologists is evil only if we consider that it is? That his corruption of Standard Tech is actually his way of helping us to attain Enlightenment? And that we should grant him beingess to continue, la-de-da? Was Hitler not evil, la-de-da?
Delusory enlightenment is achieved by going out the bottom of one’s game, and thereby exteriorizing by disassociation. One arrives at the top of the tone scale in a smaller game. It feels good, but as spiritual gain it’s delusion.
The Sivananda nonsense you stated is right out of an implant. Hinduism is a marble cake of ultimate truth and implanted trickery designed to keep the most aware from actually breaking out of the trap.
Are you a Scientologist?
Please try and keep your enforcement of viewpoint/ inval of others’ viewpoints in check. People have a right to believe and impart what they wish, correct? Isn’t that why we’re all here, to support freedom? I’m not attacking you, but you seem to have hijacked this thread to a degree and appear to be throwing some weight around unnecessarily. It’s okay to agree to disagree and assume a viewpoint without making someone else wrong.
Quentin,
I did go a little overboard in my choice of words re Monte and Sivananda. I hope my reply to his reply made peace with him regarding that.
In general, in my posts on this blog I’ve just stated my viewpoint, just as others have stated theirs. It’s true that I have a direct and certain style. I regret that this upsets some people, but there are also those who like it.
I’ve been trying to make a contribution, using the strengths that I have. Obviously, I also have weaknesses. I try to keep my particular combination of strengths and weaknesses from devolving into a serv fac, but I don’t always succeed. Believe me, it was much worse before I got any Scientology auditing than it is now.
I also never have the intention of hijacking a thread. But sometimes my comments get replied to in ways that need a reply from me, and off we go. I don’t feel good about the “hijack” aspect of this, but I really don’t know how to stay in comm in a way that prevents it. I’ll try to do better in the future.
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate them.
“The Sivananda nonsense you stated is right out of an implant.”
1. The odds of you ever having read Sivanada or knowing anything about his life, based on that comment, are zero. I hope now you can empathize with people who attack LRH after never having read a word he said. You just became one of them for a moment in time.
2. Your funny and I appreciate your viewpoint none the less.
3. If thats an implant, then give me another
Sorry Brian – somebody else moderated this thread. Kassapa, from your record here in alienating people with arrogant evaluations and invalidations I believe your view of Scientology and life would be far better accommodated within corporate scientology, unless of course you are already there.
Whew!!! YES, finally someone said it!!!! I agree with you Marty. If it looks like a stink plant and smells like a stink plant IT MUST BE A STINK PLANT until proven otherwise…
TroubleShooter,
Here’s my take. He has been taken to task for the arrogance before. Not quite as bluntly.
In the end, theta is capable of consideration, postulate and opinion. Which means, if you feel “finally,” I can only encourage you to weigh in sooner. No one has the right to bully anyone here. But, each of us has the inherent right to hold and communicate our opinions and considerations.
Scientology will only work when a person has the audacity to make his own observations and communicate those observations.
What is that adage about confusion turning on and blowing off before order goes in? Making an observation might stir up a little confusion but should lead to order and understanding.
Thing is to maintain a sense of estimation of effort, to recognize how much enturbulation or confusion is tolerable to be quickly resolved and lead to greater understanding.
I’ve been taken to task more than once here for my boneheaded ideas and I’ve appreciated the understandings that ensued.
And I’ve appreciated your contributions here.
Michael
Good one Michael!!
(Which means, if you feel “finally,” I can only encourage you to weigh in sooner. )
LOL to OUAT and Tony,
Yes OF COURSE you’re correct. I’m too slow for you guys sometimes. I caught up on the comments after the long dialog of demonstrated patience by Marty etc had been given to Kassapa and as I read the thread I had this building perception that was nailed on the head when I saw Marty’s post. So I should have made that comment more clear and will in the future. I bow to your intelligence and expectations as I respect it immensely.
That was for Marty.
Marty,
How many times do I have to re-state my intentions before you will believe them? Have I ever said one word in defense of DM? One word in defense of the out tech practiced by the Church? One word promoting centralized control? The answers are NO, NO, and NO.
Meanwhile, I have denounced DM, denounced the Church’s out-tech, and explained that I DON’T want to see any more centralized control.
On the other hand, I do believe that Scientology is Scientology, not something else, and that it’s both possible and desirable for there to be some degree of organization, without central control, as we go forward.
Apparently some people on this blog agree with me on that, and some don’t. Fine. I wish everyone the best of success on his own chosen path. I’ve stated what my chosen path is. If anyone feels made wrong by that, I regret their feeling that way. Creating that effect has not been my intention, but I’ll try to do better in the future.
One more thing. Anyone still on staff of Corporate Scientology who knows me and my history in Scientology would laugh very hard at the idea that I might be a kool-aid drinker infiltrating your blog. I’ve overtly disagreed with deviation from LRH ethics, tech, and policy at every org where I’ve ever been a public or staff member. I never backed down, and I got in a lot of ethics trouble because of that, none of which ever convinced me to give up my Personal Integrity.
Methinks that if you were such a notorious, trouble making kind of guy (and a proud one at that) you wouldn’t be putting so much effort into hiding at the moment.
Marty,
I am dead-filed, but not declared, and still officially a Church member, although I’ve been inactive for years. I have friends and business associates still in the Church, some on DM’s side and some on the Indie side, who would have to disconnect from me if I came out publicly as myself. I will do that anyway at some point, and am working to get my business to a point of complete viability without any connection to Church members. I’m also doing what I can to help some of my still-in friends do the same thing. It’s complicated, as you know it is for many of us. This has also delayed my getting my own “thorough clean-up” auditing and getting back on the Bridge in the Indie field. I want to be totally out so badly you can’t imagine. Well, I guess you CAN imagine. Meanwhile, posting as Kassapa gives me a chance to make a contribution, as uneven as it may have been.
A big clue to me was —- while I remain unknown to most on this blog —
Marty and Mike know exactly who I am.
I trusted and privately emailed both of them. Neither have ever betrayed that trust. They respect my decisions for remaining private.
It became clear to me that not only did Kassapa use a “handle” on this blog BUT he had an email address that was private and he had NOT contacted Marty or Mike behind the scenes.
Although he’s followed this blog for 2 years and only started speaking out — surely 2 years is enough time to develop TRUST.
It’s actions not intentions in the end that are the make break point.
I hope that Kassapa continues to read this blog and decides which path he is following. The road that is paved with good intentions = hell.
The road that is paved by right actions = heaven.
Love,
Windhorse
Kassapa,
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and thus give some personal advice hard won over both internet and activism decorum.
When people come out with their real names, there is an openness which also creates a bit of vulnerability … real or imagined. Anonymous contributors, people not willing to speak under their real name or that want to offer their brilliant advice and support, criticisms or faultfinding can become incredibly annoying. Arrogance and seniority or supremacy do not go down well. Every person, to some degree, consciously or not, on this and other forums is both learning and/or healing. They are also sharing, often most openly of their intimate self.
You may in fact be the best thing since slice bread, but as long as you are anonymous and hiding from the COS, your messages and ideas must be tempered. Tread lightly.
If you are still pretending to be a corporate Scientologist as you state, because of potential loss of friends and business associates, I have a couple of questions;
How is it constructive to your personal integrity to deceive friends into believing that you are towing the party corporate line to preserve friendships or business relationships that may not deal with you if they knew your true thoughts or feelings? How does it help your personal integrity to take money from business relationships where you have to deceive about your personal position on something so important?
If you are the business mind you present yourself as, why haven’t you created a baseline of activity and profit from your Scientology partners and associates, built up sufficient funding to support yourself outside of any COS influence over the past couple of years, and then stated your intentions, seeing what damage COS disconnection did to your business and, then, hiring an attorney to pursue “tortuous interference with business contract” as a way to help end such abuse for all?
If you had a friend that was pretending to be something different to what they were, how much of a friend would you consider them to be?
What do you even consider a friend?
Mike,
Thank you for your comments. I do appreciate being given the benefit of the doubt.
Re my “pretending to be something I’m not” with my COS friends and business associates, they all know I have major disagreements and have been inactive for years. Most of them know I’ve been deadfiled. I’ve just avoided doing anything openly that would get me declared. Some of my friends still in the Church are just the same as me in that regard. I do talk openly with them regarding my most extreme opinions of DM, as they do with me. But we keep it private.
Re why I haven’t already gotten my business to a point where I can safely be disconnected from by all my friends and associates still in the Church, all I can say is that the economy of the last 2-3 years has been very tough on the type of business I’m in, and that’s slowed things considerably.
Kassapa,
I still have no idea who you are, doubt that we met in real life, but I am ashamed to admit I am rather entertained by your self created plight and circumstances on this board; because I got myself into similar circumstances on ESMB some time ago. I still remember friends calling me and saying “you idiot, why are you being so arrogant, why do you write with such arrogance?” I was bewildered, thinking that I was one of the good guys, the abuses of the COS were the enemy, why attack me?
In the end there were several things at play, I was in fact communicating with the Scientology culture exceptionally arrogant and unwarranted self certainty and confidence that most people and most of the world find rude and offensive. I, subconsciously, was expecting people to socially or really agree with me or just be nice to me … I had not yet realized the value in conflict of opinion, questioning, and yes, sometimes there can even be benefit from outright hostility. There were people there that would question anything, good or bad, just for the exercise and entertainment of making me think about everything I was saying. There were perhaps a couple of people trying to be assholes, and there were a few anonymous posters that were intentionally or unintentionally forwarding OSA lines.
I can’t say that I enjoyed all of my encounters on ESMB, can’t say I didn’t get very disheartened and upset at times, but it was valuable to me, in hindsight, because it made me look at patterns I had in my behavior that I didn’t see, wasn’t aware I had. I also got a different view on how others view the Scientology culture.
My personal position regarding Scientology Tech today is “I DON’T KNOW”. I want to believe that there is AT LEAST SOME VALUE IN THE SUBJECT I WAS BORN INTO AND SPENT 30+ YEARS SUPPORTING. I don’t actually know, and can’t analytically prove at this point, for myself, that the sum of the tech and its total cost has been of fair and positive value to me and my family over three generations. We are talking probably a million dollars or more cash and a lost generation for 3 people, struggles and emotional baggage for future generations, and at least a million dollars or more in lost fair market labor value. When my father died as an OT VIII, he lost belief in the value of his OT bridge because he was stuck in a failing frail body unable to let go and die at will to pick up a new body. He was unable to heal the body or let it go, if he couldn’t do these, he didn’t know what was true.
I believe that people have the right to believe whatever they want, choose their own religious preference and practice in a non destructive to others ways. I am willing to fight for this, I do fight for this. I believe it is my responsibility, having supported the COS for so many years to stand up against and support the end of certain inhuman abuses.
I don’t think you are a OSA Plant or the like, but you are showing in your words the organized Scientology mindset, you may no longer be “one of them” but you may think like they trained you to think.
I am going to pay forward to you a favor given me several times that changed my life. Metaphorically, grabbing your collar and slapping your face until you come into present time.
The questions you did not answer were as telling as those you did. Though we don’t know each other and obviously aren’t friends, a true friend, especially an Aussie from a working class background might grab you by the back of the collar, pull you aside, and say some of the following. If I were that friend, I would say this in normal non scientologese English, but because of the prevalence of scientologese in your writing, its your lead.
You say you are a dedicated hard core KSW scientologist that has never allowed his integrity to be alloyed, yet post anonymously on sites critical to the corporate COS because you are afraid to loose business and friendships if you are declared. How exactly does this work?
You are in fact criticizing others on their lack of progress in creating auditors, people that are litterally putting their lives and livelyhoods on the line in direct confrontation of the COS war machine. You are insinuating that you could build big booming scientology centers in LA or Clearwater that could instantly be profitable because it would take away from the big existing markets of the COS. You only need someone else to prove legally that you are allowed to do this and can do it safely, until someone else sets the precedent conclusively you won’t do anything. Oh, and you may need help financing all of this. Falls under the headings of arrogant, opportunistic, arrogant, possibly slightly delusional, and did I mention arrogant … opportunistic and conceited and self importance as big as the great outdoors. Did I say arrogant?
You write about the infalability of the tech and KSW as complete solutions and the only way, with little tolerance for other ways or philosophies. You hint as to your complete command and ability to use these, including building booming groups that could take the public away from the orgs right in their own back yards. Yet, you are not demonstrating in your own life the business and management or even interpersonal communications skills to stop having to do business with coolaide drinking scientologists that would disconnect from you if you openly expressed your true feelings and got declared. Can you explain this to me?
That you need the business of coolaide drinking Scientologists to survive says you are financially struggling. Also, perhaps with your command of the tech, could you clarify, might this also fall under the definition of PTS? Also, while we are at it, can you please explain to me, with the KSW and the admin tech being absolute, statistically why Scientologists are not more successful than non scientologists? If you have maintained your integrity and the purity of the tech, can do things in the future better than people currently doing things in the real world, why aren’t you more successful? At least successful enough to start up your own Scientology center down the road?
Is it even real to you that knowing only what LRH wrote may not be enough to have a complete and rewarding life? Did you forget about the Study Tapes where Hubbard hopes to train us to be able to learn any subject completely? Photography? Does any of this ring a bell?
My intent is not to be an asshole, my intent is that you look honestly and critically at everything you have learned and your life to get REAL and plot a better future course for yourself and others.
If you would have showed up on ESMB with the same attitude you would have felt like they fed you into a tree shredder, you would have been a blubbering baby, drooling in the corner sucking your thumb!!
It is a tough world out here, recovering from the persistent symptoms and effects of the scientology culture, and DMs culture is not easy. The real personal betrayal against us by the COS is so huge to be practically inconceivable in its totality:
Give me your life to save the world though Scientology sanity and clear the planet. Was in reality; work for slave wages, help a few people along the way, but mismanage things so badly that Scientology contracts, becomes the laughing stock of the world, makes a tyrant rich, etc. etc.
Give me your Children to serve the future of humanity and create a new world, we will train them to become leaders of the new world, the elite. Became: Your children will be servants or slave laborers, forced to disconnect from you, degraded so heavily that they won’t think for themselves or have the strength to blow. The brightest and most viscous of which will be harvested turned into mini DM tyrants that become masters of producing nothing and degrading others, because DM is unable to breed himself.
Give me your money, sacrifice your homes, your retirement funds, your kids college funds, savings … everything you have to save Scientology which is the only future for humanity, including your family and children. This money did not go to even trying to expand scientology, it goes to attacking and destroying critics and whistle-blowers trying to end the abuse, or lines the pockets of DM in his personal Multi Million dollar fortune.
It goes on, it is brutal and viscous. It is very hard to look at.
It saddens me to tears watching people I know, people I love running on a hamster wheel, flat out, thinking they are going somewhere, wasting their lives, completely certain in their personal belief and confidence in the COS or tech, not realizing that what they are doing is making no measurable progress or gain, but convinced, every year for the past 30 years that planetary clearing, or OT IX, or global recognition of Scientology, or their own financial independence, or their own happiness is months or a few years away.
Is it true that you used to post as Alex on ESMB, before you came out with your real name?
The answer lies in Grade IV technology. You can build the perfect organization, even the ideal one, all straight out of OEC, and if you use your “knowledge” of Scientology to communicate to others that their ideas are “straight out of an implant” you are no better than the shock docs Miscavology preaches about intending to destroy. LRH once wrote a despatch in the early eighties. It went something like this: you can never win an argument with a psych; that is because the moment logic is about to prevail on your side, he simply says “you’re crazy.” Corporate Scientology, nay, 1950′s Institutional Psychiatry redux.
Marty,
I don’t doubt that I could use some more charge off the case in the serv fac area, and I’m looking forward to it. But my comment to Monte re ideas from implants was not aimed at him personally, but at the subject of Hinduism. He and I have had a nice exchange of posts, and I think our ARC is in pretty good shape. I certainly tried to bring that about in my last reply to him.
I know it wasn’t aimed at Monte – never said it was. It was aimed at Brian whose post prominently began with that quotation you so authoritatively determined was “right out of an implant.” Gossamer.
Marty,
Actually, my “Sivananda nonsense” remark was not aimed at Brian. I’d forgotten that his post started with that quote. I was replying only to Monte. But the actual Sivananda quote by Brian was a little different than what Monte said. I just re-read the quote from Brian’s article, and I agree with Sivananda on it. I also agree with the concept that existence may by cyclic, in which we generate a lot of bad karma and then somehow clean it up and get back close to Native State where we started. What I disagree with is the idea that everything is already the way it should be, and that there is no actual evil in the world we need to do anything about.
LRH talked about finding the entire tone scale being used as an enforced concept in implants. And entire series of implants. It made him question for a bit whether what he had observed as a basic in Dianetics auditing was simply from an implant, whether the implant caused the pattern to obtain in humans. He was smart enough to conclude it was a truth used by implanters for their own ends. The pattern of the tone scale preceded the lies of the implant.
That something is in implants doesn’t gainsay its truth. A lot of very spiritual and wise beings have offered their observations to enhance our enlightenments. Almost all of those beings and truths from well back on the track have ended up in implants as symbols and enforced truths.
Implanters weren’t dumb. Many were pretty good students of theta and the mind. Otherwise, their crap wouldn’t have worked. It wasn’t accidentally effective.
What often happened was that some great being brought truths, which groups of later adherents admired so much they decided to enforce those truths on all beings. It’s a cycle that’s plagued most religions. Truths discovered; source moves on; adherents misunderstand the truths and begin enforcing them. Right down the CDEI scale.
Most of the factors are variously represented in implants. As are the truths in the Tao.
You can’t dismiss the truth of something just because it ends up as fodder for implanters. Implants only work to the degree that they’re anchored in truth.
Until one realizes who THE only “implanter” that means squat is, one is a deployable cult member. By the very statement “that comes out of an implant” to invalidate belies the Black Dianeticist, Reverse Scientologist, Cult Member, or whatever else you might wish to call it. The primary reason Miscavige continues to treat me as Public Enemy #1 is not because of this blog, not because I make a regular practice of reversing his reverse cult practices, but more fundamentally because I continue to demonstrate my ability to spot him coming from miles off and so despite spending millions in attempts to infiltrate and destroy he remains Wile E. Coyote.
Marty,
That was a tough read. Had to check and recheck definitions, then work out how it is that way and how it isn’t that way, then apply general ideas to specifics before I could grasp the intended meaning.
Interesting concept “a deployable cult member.” I would take this to mean a self-proclaimed member OR merely a dupe that serves to further the cult’s goals, thus operating as an unintended member. Quite a topic: how to manipulate individuals into becoming agents for a cause, whether that person is aware they have become an agent or not.
I find Kassapa’s tendency to propitiate to you troubling. All these explanations just go on and on. Hmm, explanations. All these well intended reasons.
If the project’s good, why all the explanations?
Something that works for me in many fields, truth is simple; lies are complex.
Marty,
In each thread I’ve participated in, that’s become long and involved, I’ve started off my making a statement of some simple, basic truths. Sometimes others have misduplicated what I’ve said, or disagreed with it based on their own complexity. So, my follow-up posts have become more complex as I’ve attempted to handle that.
Over there – Corporate Scientologist indicia #5.
Once Upon a Time,
I don’t think I’m propitiating Marty. Every “stroke” I’ve given him is a totally accurate statement of how I feel about him. As for the explanations that just go on and on, Marty and some others have misduplicated one thing after another that I’ve said, especially by dubbing in A=A nonsense in the area of my “underlying motivations.” This has been wrong indication city for me. I’ve just been trying to straighten that out.
“Over there”, as the answer to all of my negative causation – Indicia #5 of the DM-saluting Corporate Scientologist.
Marty,
Of course, ultimately there is only ONE implanter who really matters. But working up to that realization in auditing takes one through a lot of actual implants installed by others.
LRH himself said that certain subjects contain ideas stemming from implants. Was he wrong about that? In proper auditing should one ignore implants when they come up? Is taking up implants done only to enslave a pc or pre-OT to a belief in other determinism? Or is it to get him through his belief in other-determinism so he can finally be free?
My remarks about implants and Hinduism were not about Monte as an individual, but about the subject. But, now that you point it out, I do see how criticizing a subject someone believes in could invalidate the believer. So, I stand corrected. I’ll try to do better in the future.
But I’m not DM, or a bot sent in by him. Your implying that I may be is quite a wrong indication. Instead of the ad hominem attack, I’d appreciate your stating what ideas or procedures of mine you disagree with, and I’ll be happy to discuss them with you. If you’d prefer to do that privately, you have my email address. I welcome the discussion.
In the informal org board of the Independent Scientology movement, there are different players who’ve each taken responsibility for a particular hat. This can seem on the surface to be disagreement, but it’s really just division of labor to utilize the best strengths of each, and it fits together in a synergistic way. I’m just trying to find my place in this, without interfering too much with the hats of others. It’s been a little rough in spots so far, but I’m sure I’ll get it all figured out given a little more time.
Gathering info for the next anti-marty blog post I see, with your incredibly offensive,leading, and insinuating questions. No thanks. Fourth indicia of a corporate Scientologist:
4) Screaming bloody murder when someone calls you on your bullshit: “ad hominen attacks”, “wrong indication”, and the whole persecution tone over what started as a simple attempt to get the guy to take responsibility for an attack he himself initiated on another person of goodwill.
“I’m just trying to find my place in this, without interfering too much with the hats of others.” Here’s one that is wide open, and you seem to have a lot of qualification for given your ability to remain under the radar with Corporate Scientology and all the time you seem to have to work on the computer: “Internet Justice Chief”: Job description: clean up all the rivers of lies and filth Corporate Scientology has put out to discredit particularly vocal and effective Indies.
Brian,
I have not read Sivananda, or anything about him. I didn’t mean to label his entire teaching as nonsense, only what Monte said about it.
I do have a general familiarity with Hinduism, but not in anywhere near as much depth as Buddhism. Gotama tried and mastered the major Hindu practices of his time, under India’s most famous guru’s, before devising his own path.
My only this lifetime practice in Hinduism was Transcendental Meditation. I knew Maharishi personally, and he wanted me to go to India for advanced training to become one of his key international teachers. Not that I was ready to teach, of course, but he thought I had very high potential for it. I decided to do Scientology instead.
Re the “Sivananda nonsense” itself — that nothing is really good or evil — LRH does state in Axiom 31, “Goodness and badness, beautifulness and ugliness, are alike considerations and have no other basis than opinion.” On the other hand, he also says that “good” is that which creates the most survival on the most dynamics, and “evil” is the opposite. He also talks about “confront of evil,” and created processes to address “evil intentions.” I tried to reconcile these superficially contradictory statements in my replies to Monte.
As for Hinduism being a marbling of ultimate truth and implants, LRH said that himself. And I experienced it through my practice of Transcendental Meditation and my acquaintance with some Hare Krishnas. Running into high-wavelength implants doing TM was one of the reasons I switched to Scientology.
Three more indicia of the Corporate Scientologist:
a) Doesn’t have an original thought of his own – cannot communicate without having a quotation to back it up (in this case ne plus ultra in absurdity where the Source quotes conflict, and the guy still has to be right, which leads to b…
b) Must be right and must demonstrate that with Scientology quotes he can always be right…preferably in such a fashion as to prove any other thinker or practice wrong.
c) Incapable of simply acknowledging an overt with a simple, “I am sorry, that was bullhead and cruel of me.” Must continue to justify.
Marty,
OK. Fine. I was bullheaded and cruel. I apologize. I won’t do it again.
But everything else you’ve said about me being a Corporate Scientology infiltrator is utter, complete, A=A bullshit. How about some validation for my wanting to make something positive happen?
It’s bad to quote LRH? It’s bad to show how superficially conflicting LRH quotes really don’t conflict at all? Give me a break!
No original ideas of my own? No recognition of the validity of other practices? I was in continual ethics trouble in the Church due to having ideas of my own and recognizing validity in other practices.
Now I’m in a very difficult position. This is your blog. You are a hero to me and thousands of others. So, I must bow before the king if I wish to be heard in his court.
I don’t mind admitting to the overt of having communicated in a way that upset someone. That kind of correction I can have, and in fact I welcome it. But your repeated accusation that I’m a Corporate Scientologist is another matter. I cannot let it stand, not because it makes me wrong, but because it’s not true.
Also, if we are to be frank with one another, it’s a Black PR ad hominem attack to dead agent me. So, let’s cut to the chase. It seems to me that you disagree with my vision for the future of Scientology, and that you want to prevent others from following me or anyone else down that road.
It seems that what you want is a complete anarchy of many sole practitioners with no large training centers making more of them. In other words, you’ve gone from one extreme (a total believer in Corporate Scientology) all the way over to the other extreme (insisting on sole practioners only).
That may be the right gradient for many refugees from the Church, and certainly would prevent another DM from arising, but it’s not going to clear the planet.
There is a middle path, that you yourself didn’t really experience to any significant degree, because you got into Scientology in the late 70′s and went right into the Sea Org at a point in its history when it was many years down the line from it’s nobler and humbler beginnings.
The organizational set-up of the 60′s and early 70′s (tech-first, loose-admin, growing missions and orgs) is the middle path that historically worked the best, and that will work again if re-adopted, albeit with some modifications to prevent centralized control that can be taken over by another DM.
This middle path is what I’m in favor of. That DOES NOT make me a Corporate Scientologist. At the risk of pulling out another LRH quote, it’s “doing the things that won before, not new things untried.”
Maybe your approach is the right gradient for many Independent Scientologists, but here’s what will most likely happen once hundreds of Indie auditors go out to set up private practices. First of all, just as happened decades ago, most of them won’t succeed well enough to actually make a paying career out of it, because it’s a lot harder than it looks to wear all the hats in a one-man-band and keep the cash flowing smoothly. And not many auditors struggling to make a living will reproduce themselves by training the next generation of auditors.
The small percentage of Indie field auditors that do succeed well enough to make a paying career out of it will automatically grow. Some of them will elect to remain solo, like Trey and Ingrid. Others will go the route of the SHSBC graduates of the early 60′s, who became the great mission holders of the 70′s. Except this time those missions will end up delivering the entire Bridge from bottom to top. And they will train the next generation of auditors.
What is highly unlikely to happen is thousands of productive field auditors clearing the planet with no larger training operations assisting.
I’m not just spouting my opinion, here. LRH himself said the same thing. And history shows that he was right. Scientology boomed in the 70′s because of missions, not field auditors. Of all the well-trained field auditors who tried to just go it solo, only a very small percentage succeeded for very long.
Is my saying this just my “having to be right,” or “having to justify”? I don’t think so. And, isn’t it a Corporate Scientology ploy to accuse anyone with a different idea of being motivated by case or out ethics? My motivation is neither. But I certainly will defend myself when accused of that.
If I come across as a little serv fac’y, I’m sorry. But aren’t my ideas more important than the way I present them? In an auditing session, “how” IS more important than “what.” But this is not an auditing session. At least, I didn’t think it was.
“So, I must bow before the king if I wish to be heard in his court.” Right out of the OSA operation Miscavige has been attempting to run since late 09 – make Marty look like Miscavige. No one ever censored you; and I specifically did not cotton to your attempted butt kissing. You are just mocking this stuff up. But guess what, there are several corporate Scientology lines in this latest post of yours alone. I don’t have time to cull them out like I’ve been doing all day with you (without a single response by you to any of the four indicia about your comm that I’ve published on this thread today alone) because I am busy training auditors – another note I made in this thread you ignored. The next time I see another corporate Scientology line in any other post from you, you’re out. Start your own blog to go with your envisioned corporation.
Marty,
I haven’t answered all of your most recent posts about me because I haven’t had time to yet. But what good would it do? You’ve decided I’m someone I’m not. Everything I say to convince you otherwise you have taken as more proof that I’m lying. So, I’m not going to bother any further.
Suit yourself.
“When you realize you’re digging your own grave, it’s not a bad idea to put the shovel down.”
Anonymous
LOL. Awesome quote!!
Exactly!
Kassapa,
If you are still following this thread, I’d like to say something general. I’ve not piped in on this last bing, bang, boom. I’m not going to save for what follows.
I’ve enjoyed your many posts. You are not just well-read, but have absorbed the material and can express it in various ways that demonstrate to me at least, that you live it. That is if expressing it on this blog is evidence and as far as it goes. I’m assuming you’re doing OK in the remainder of the adventure.
I cannot speak for anyone else on this but I can for myself. I agree with just about everything you’ve written. There is something that others are finding a little “chafing”. Not me, but then we’ve not crossed keyboards.
Perhaps the quote I gave earlier, the one on Fighting, is in play. Beings of comparable magnitude, especially if magnitudinous, can certainly cut up the grass so to speak.
You’re a big boy. It’s a big game. Thanks for playing. I DO hope to see you in the future, “revealed” as it were.
If you consider it, my email is momrath65@yahoo.com.
Beware.
Kassapa, I was a Scientologist for over 30 years. In 2001 I put physical distance between myself and the church leaving only the snail mail comm line connected. In 2010 I stepped out of the Scientology belief system (though kept many of the tools), shed my need for a guru (my Scn experience had awakened the guru within) and then headed out on my own to explore myself free of restrictions other than those I imposed. Since I embarked upon this exploration I have found myself to be in a vast expanse of the unknown, uncertain and not understood. A circumstance that would have at one time terrified me. Not so now though. Indeed, I am finding this experience to be most incredible! In Scientology knowing, certainty and having a full conceptual understanding of something are all conditions venerated while the other side of that coin (and there’s always an other side in this dualistic frequency) is disparaged with ferocity. But, I have discovered for myself that the other side of the coin has much to offer if one does not fear it. In fact, I am finding the unknown, the uncertain and the not understood to be an impetus of wonder that impels me to venture even further within in the search for knowing.
As for my understanding with regard to the mechanics of good and evil….well, at this moment, I really don’t hold a definitive understanding of those two concepts. However, I do have more than a few scenarios that I have up on my sliding scale of probabilities on which LRH’s perspective is plotted as well as Sivananda’s and many more. Kassapa, I have come to be of the mind that there is always an earlier beginning and more to the story (this too is a scenario plotted on my probability scale in the upper range) and I’m currently applying this notion broadly. Furthermore, I feel or have no obligation, need, want or compulsion to firmly attach myself to any one message or one messenger. I am a sovereign Being and I am behaving like one.
Kassapa, we are on the same journey but we are taking different paths. And I really don’t think it can be any other way (another scenario)
. I thank you much for sharing your perspective. It is appreciated as are you.
I leave you with this rhetorical question (something to wonder about):
How can you tell the difference between a person who is telling the truth and a person who really believes they are telling the truth?
Monte,
Thanks for your very gracious reply. I believe you have duplicated my intention better than some others who have posted regarding our exchange.
I completely understand what you said, and share your viewpoint a great deal more than it may appear. I know I come across as a zealot for Standard Tech, and a herder of souls away from other practices. But my understanding of life has been assisted by study of many other philosophies and technologies. Scientology is the keel of my ship, but not the entire ship.
One of my very favorite LRH principles is the upper levels of the Know to Mystery Scale. Moving up from Thinking, we have Effort, Emotion, Looking, Know About, Not Know, and finally Know, in that order. By Looking we gain knowledge at the Know About level, but Not Know is actually higher. That’s because the data of the Know About level gets in the way of direct and complete Knowing that does not depend on data. As LRH says, “Knowledge is certainty. It is not data.” We have to give up dependence on data, and move into the uncertainty of Not Know in order to really Know.
Also, Not Know is at 30.0 on the Tone Scale, and so is Postulates. So, part of making a postulate stick is to give up one’s certainty of exactly how that sticking is going to come about. I observe this to be true and very useful, over and over and over again in my life.
My favorite modern Zen Master is the Korean Seung Sahn, whose motto is “Only Don’t Know.”
My very best wishes for your journey.
Good show !!!
Monte
Good stuff. Sounds like you are in there with your sleeves rolled up, looking for yourself. Sounds like you have a rather interesting “study” going on there. It would be interesting to see what you come up with.
I agree, one can learn much from deconstructing “accepted truths”, and applying some form of data evaluation to them. (keeping in mind that data evaluation does not seem to apply to the Theta Universe, as Theta is very fluid when at its best. When you deal with Theta… Well… All bets are off. ANYTHING is possible!)
I find that the way one ever becomes any good at dealing with car engines is to get right in there and get grease up to your elbows, and work with them until you have mastered their intricacies. Then one can tweak them for maximum horsepower.
This approach also seems to be the only one that will really “put you at cause” over life. We are going to get a little MEST “up to our elbows”, but by the time we are done, we should have a pretty good working knowledge of the stuff.
The “secret of life” seems to be simply the willingness to experience anything, or nothing at all.
Happy deconstructing/reconstructing.
Eric S
Eric, thanks so much for your comment. I really appreciate the view you have. As you say, “I do have my sleeves rolled up and I’m looking for myself (in more ways than one might imagine). And, I must say, I find doing so to be one hell of a blast!!! Being able to freely look and arrive at my own conclusions is a wonderful gift I have bestowed upon myself. As it turns out, I have come to learn that I was the only one that could do such a wonderful thing for me. Truly, this is the gift that keeps on giving!
Btw, you mentioned “it would be interesting to see what you come up with” well, I can tell you that I am continually coming up with all manner of stuff and it all gets plotted on the sliding scale of probability that I keep yapping about. It’s just such a great tool that I can’t stop bringing it up.
Anyway, speaking of coming up with stuff, I am currently exploring the works of the physicist Tom Campbell (I quoted him in an earlier comment). I would suggest to anyone that they check out his Reality 101 presentation available on Youtube. Although his presentation is pretty darn dry, the content has given me a whole new view of the Theta Universe that I have never had before. Then, there’s this book called Flatland written in the late 1800s by E. A. Abbott. It’s free to read online. Two pages in and I was hooked. It’s at least worth a look.
Peace Out ~ Monte
p.s. I’m going away now. This has been so much fun! I am grateful to you ALL!
Brian,
Thanks very much for the dissertation. Your brilliant essay really cuts to the chase of this subject matter through very wise and astute insights of your point of view which resounds on many levels for me, leading to new realizations personally. A 4-point swish hoop shot!
Thank you Brian,that article was profound. Yes in 1.1 sometimes there is clarity just don’t linger too long there. So how do we get the flea off the dog? It is not waiting for the government to drag HIM away! I agree this blog and the courageous who bring truth will eventually cave the evil. However is there any alternatives that are in keeping with the good we have learned? Its worth a sane forum.
So true.
If it wasn’t that way we wouldn’t need any philosophies and routes to enlightment.
Brian, your “being in the zone” somehow reminds me of Jettero Heller.
You’ll make it all the way!
As Scientology is an addition to life, anyone of us will need to araise above it someday. For now as we know the data and all the mechanics we find ourselfs in, we can’t ignore Scientology easily. There is too much truth in it.
I am aware of other religions, -isms and -ogies, but Scientology, even if I know that Ron sometimes wasn’t right with his explanations of some of them, is and remains my thin red thread through all of them.
Scientology: the path to certainty.
You have passed through it very quickly.
You’re the embodiment of inspiration.
All my love and admiration to you.
Thank you Brian. What a true inspiration you are. I am glad to know you and to call you a friend.
Much love
Carol
Dear Clark Kent,
Oops, thought that was Superman in disguise behind those big nerdy glasses!
Brian, loved the article, completely. Though I feel kindred spirits with many people here because of our shared history, often I feel unable to precisely express my thoughts and feelings in a way that communicates and is peaceful and respectful. You have captured my emotions perfectly.
It is rare that I read something I identify so completely with that I wish I would have written it!
Thanks, Brian for your small note and not so small impact!
Nobody did for sure pull that in. We have been conned.
Speaking of whole track overts. A staff member showed me the definition of self-invalidation in the Tech Dictionary saying: “self-invalidation has behind that someplace a huge overt–big enough to set the police of several galaxies after them. (BTB 11 Dec 72R)” Thanks, that really kept my bank away…
I thought I must have been really bad then since I pulled this shit in (self-blame, out-integrity et al). But I couldn’t find one single whole track overt in my entire processing that was even close to that magnitude.
To my fellow lurkers: In recovering from a cult it’s vital to take back responsibility for your own recovery. Blaming self and others will only stick you in there. And I know the path can be long but the reward exceeds the suffering by far.
We’re heading for an ever greater exodus!
Well said!
‘Shame on you Corporate $. for what you have not done… for not allowing the average individual to move up the Bridge without crushing debt… For not making thousands and thousands of auditors…’
In view of LRH’s opinion of the state of man and of planet earth; these are the real, knowingly commited overts of whole track signifance and magnitude. Beings with R/Sing evil purposes.
It means we have to handle our debts, cases and wounds and get some sort of product out. My admiration to anyone; who inspite of this, continues to progress up the bridge outside the church, especially to anyone who audits at what ever level they can.
The day that a person stands up and doesn’t care if OSA knocks at their door, or calls to talk is the day you are FREE. It’s the day you have gained enough self-respect for yourself and others – which is “The Way To Happiness”!
“The day that a person stands up and doesn’t care if OSA knocks at their door or calls to talk is the day you are FREE.” That is SO true!
What a great injection of wisdom and prospective to start my day!
Thanks Brian
Brian, a keen eye and good writing u have! Welcome to the Indie Field! I wish one thing for you… to keep on looking into Scientology… and with that keen eye of your’s i think you are gonna finally have some Real Scientology here. Glad u made it!
I am so glad that you are finally free from cult. You have my wishes for the best from now on.
“The tangible and potent sense of betrayal…” Yes, betrayal after trust. The condition of the organization is TREASON. That’s a fact. I hope you don’t fold under it. It has become a challenge . When I left with the same feelings, it took me eight years before I thought about the subject again. And I really flew up the bridge once I got on lines in the Independent movement, which also has it’s challenges. But trust me, it has all been worthwhile, magical, and well worth rising above the challenges. This is NOT a game with only one winner in the end. It’s not really about what someone else owes you. It’s about what you owe to yourself now. I hope you keep your eye on the mountain and roll with the punch. You have been pick pocketed, but you haven’t been robbed blind. You can still do everything you intended to do in Scientology, and in a better environment with standard tech. And you can make it with a sense of how to care about the guy in front of you. Because when we fly out of that womb called the Mother Church, we know the sting of being treated like we never really mattered. People evolve very well into kinder people themselves, as a result of abusive situations. It’s not just in Scientology but in every facet of existence, you can take the motion that comes in, and use it to win.
Excellent write-up Brian.
It’s nice having you on our side.
Peace,
Tony
I was moved by your write up Brian Really I was Fantastic
Thank you so much for sharing your realizations.
It is good to have more OT’s in the Free Zone/Indie Community.
Pat Krenik, Founding Scientologist, 1951
thetagal
Thank you for making yourself known… Wonderful to have you here.
Eric S
Not to distract from this thread, but of interest is that Yahoo put Valeska’s story on their front page and in a few hours it has accumulated more than 5,000 comments!
+1 Viral story, there were even mentions in Indonesian news (neighbor of Ozzies).
wow wow wow!
True that, Mike.
I’ve got “wogs” forwarding the Yahoo link to me now.
Can you say……”Viral”?
Brian, what you’ve written is amazing and incredibly true. It helped me on my own personal journey and struggle out of the labrynth. It’s hard going but what you wrote today helped me through it. I think the toughest part is the confront of evil. Really if anyone were to just look they would see the truth about RCS. But it’s such a black hole of evil it’s nigh impossible to confront. Thank you.
I understand the kind of nightmare that can ensue when one realizes that the group one has turned to for salvation is actually going to be one’s demise if one continues in it. It is quite a blow to the senses for anyone. Brian is of course no exception. One has to re-orient one’s self to the world around one and to one’s own self. It always takes time, but the Church of Scientology with their criminal ways always make people’s departures a success. No one would like to go back to the Church of Scientology and if they say they do they are lying, unless the church changes first.
Brian,
Of course I’ll offer up my sincere thanks for your provocative and insightful, truthful and concise, observations and experiences. The RCS regime, under this Caligula-like duplicate, POB, has become and evolved into something akin to a North Korean mind control death camp.
That said, I’ve had one of those ‘bad’ days where, as I pervade this prison planet, a world war three type of thermonuclear situation looms. Just look to the eastern Mediterranean. I don’t have to go into details………..
Never-the-less, it is the responsibility of us, human beings, to stand up to this situation and say “Enough is enough”.
I’m so sick and tired of these few top tier sociopaths, whether David Miscavige, David Rockefeller, some inbred scion of the House of Windsor or whatever the current generational Rothschild have in store for us. We’re at a moment in our mutual history where free beings have to finally stand up and say, “NO MORE”. And of course there is the subsequent decisive action. Yeah, we’re there.
Thanks Brian for stirring this up. I’m sorry that I’m a stew pot this evening.
I just understand that Hubbard was trying to steer us clear of this impending bullsh*t onslaught even as early as the ’40s. He was prescient.
So are you. Thanks.
Hey Brian,
Nice essay. You’ve handled yourself admirably and have accurately surmised the C of S’s cult operating basis – namely, confirm and point out the rube’s self-perceived inadequacies and exploit them for all their worth.
I’d like to take you to lunch whenever you get out SoCal way. People like you are very interesting to me in that they have “horesepower” that transcends the theta universe and changes agreements in the physical universe.
It is very important to me that Pan-Determined individuals such as yourself network with other Indies of like mind so that we can get on the same page regarding the future of this planet in order to create a new reality based on the sum of our agreements.
Scott
Hi Brian,
What an amazing communication that touched me to my core elevating my own confront of the truth.
Thank you for saying it like you see it.
I must quote you again here! So well stated!
“The almost unspeakable betrayal this organization engages in on a daily basis was understood with deeper implications and a more compelling frame of reference.
Vulnerability is pounced on and exploited.
Basic decency is looked on with disgust.
Sincere happiness and fulfillment is repudiated.”
Nice one Brian.
I was just thinking about the fighting aspect. The Church viewpoint forced on members is that we are the enemy, fighting against Scientology. A close friend of mine recently disconnected from me and said I am fighting against everything he believes in. I got sucked into that in the beginning I guess. It’s easy to think of someone as your enemy if they seem to be trying to destroy you. But I realized I am not against anyone. I am just communicating and being true to what I have observed.
DM sees enemies everywhere. Sadly, those still in the group may be dramatizing DM’s psychotic view of the world all in a blind effort to stay in good standing.
Yeah- can’t confront possibly losing your spiritual eternity so you have to keep the blinders on.
I just got a phone call from a friend, telling me that Clay Greene died earlier today at age 66. Clay was OT 5 and Class 3. He died of pancreatic cancer that came on suddenly and took him within 3 months of the first symptoms. He was still in good standing with the Church, but had been inactive for a very long time. I didn’t know Clay well, but observed him to be an extremely intelligent, aware, and able being. His passing is a loss.
Brian, that was beautiful! Beautiful and profound.
Great write-up Brian. Have you considered writing to your US senator? Every state has two. Pick one and call their office. Whoever answers will put you through to the staffer who can help you. Then you’ll put it in writing to him/her.
So far the cult has figured out that if they just say no, the gov agencies just go away. It might not work that way if a US Senator decided to take up your case. After all, DM could find himself the subject of a Senate investigation. It could happen.
Brian:
Love your phrase “rape of the soul”!
Claire
“Spiritual Rape,” was how my husband described the sec-checking he received on OT preps.
Brian,
That was among the most eloquent writings I have ever read! From your posts and videos you seem like one of the most down-to-earth, peaceful, present people I have ever seen. You remind me of the Dalai Lama! Peace and Respect!
LOL- I’m going to tell my parents you said that. I can hear my Dad now, “Dalia Lama.. you gotta be joking”
I have a looooong way to go. Trust me.
Okay, I sooooo do not belong here & question why I’m even posting. Guess it’s an emotional response to your story Brian. Found a few tears flowing and my heart aching for you.
I guess I just wanted to say, every religion has been exploited, hijacked and used to hurt people. It’s the nature of the beast, unfortunately. Heck, look at the history of Christianity. It’s horrible! Terribly inhumane & evil things have been done in God’s name. There’s a current crop of nutjobs running around saying the most hateful & stupid things, and making me embarrassed to say I’m Christian. So, I want to establish I’m not a zealot, nor here trying to sell you on God. I don’t do that. Anyway, I’d be terrible if I tried.
I guess I just want to say I care, and have everytime I’ve read a story about what has been going on in your organization, since back in the 80s. The only way I knew how to express that was to pray. I so hope I’m not insulting people by saying that. I prayed that the truth would be exposed, that people would find their voices again, that they could live better lives & happier lives. That they wouldn’t live enslaved for a false purpose. I wasn’t praying you’d find God or anything, I was just praying for a better life & truth & happiness. I’m not trying to make out I even knew exactly how to pray, or that I did it often. It really was only when I was reminded of it through the news stories.
I hope that’s okay…hey, if God is there, it can’t hurt to ask. So I’m gonna change my prayers a bit…pray for your safety from these “Squirrel Busters”; and protection of the reputations of those being smeared; and healing for what Brian called “soul rape”; and for truth to come out; and continued strength & courage; and for David M. to get his ass kicked.
I’m not saying my prayers will amount to much, or asking you to believe in God. I guess I’m just saying that once in a blue moon, know someone cares & is asking the God she believes in to help.
“Vocatus Atque Non Vacatus” – Desiderius Erasmus
[Man, in the morning I'm going to kick myself for this post, and wondering what I was thinking?! Oh, and hope no one was offended by all my semicolons.
]
Thanks for your words. No reason to apologize or feel embarrassed about compassion. I know that I, for one, appreciate it.
Agreed, compassion is a wonderful thing. Something I regained from auditing, lost in the church of DM and got back when I left!
I do not think anyone here will mind that you care enough to post this!
Thank you for your prayers and your concern; I think they are important. (check out the semi-colon!)
I hope you do not mind my moniker!
P.S If you do kick yourself tomorrow, I hope you kick yourself back! Don’t take that kind of thing lying down!
Thanks you Mel, for your tender heart, kind words and prayers:)
Mel,
Prayer or Postulate: they basically have the same derivational meaning.
Have at it. Pray for me too and I’ll postulate for your happiness.
Thank You Mel and you so do have a voice here and your post gives us heart!
You might call it a Prayer, I might call it a Heart-felt, theta Postulate; and it amounts to a whole lot and it helps us. If God is anything, to me He is pure theta. I am so glad you spoke up to let us know you wished us well and that your prayers are with us.
Here is one of my favorite verses, from St. Luke:
10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
10:4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
10:5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
Best wishes.
Existentialism, only there will you find the fundamentalist Kierkegaard (knight of faith) and Nietzsche in like company.
The same Nietzsche who said: What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not a goal.. Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman–a rope over an abyss…
Very appropriate
Kierkegaard I adore. My favorite.
Brian, That’s a nice photo of yourself in the Sepia-tone. I like that color in photography.
Well done also on this article. It communicates. Also, you came across really well in that video a couple weeks ago for the St Pete Times.
Brian,
thank you so much for your reflections and “small note”!!!
Your communication hits right home – pure truth!!!
Karola
Thank you everyone for the nice comments. I’m glad you liked the writing sample. I’ve been just finishing up my first novel recently so the writing seems to be flowing nice. Thanks to Marty for the great platforms he provides where I always learn something new and expand my own viewpoint. Have a great day.
Brian
Magnificent. The truths in your essay are so potent, it’s a wonder that Corporate Scientology and those who are perpetuating it don’t just up and disappear. Thank you for an expression so clear and artfully crafted.
A very succinct and cogent statement Brian. Thank you for your courage in making your views public. It’s obvious that the general perception of Scientology nowadays is that it’s an organization whose sole function is making money. There is no understanding or awareness that it has any philosophical or spiritual value at all. And why is this? One must presume because the leader of the Church of Scientology does not believe in, or understand the founder’s principles and beliefs. The concept of ‘exchange’, something L Ron Hubbard stressed, no longer seems to matter.
Imagine if Lord Byron (1788-1824) had chosen Scientology as a belief system and then become disenchanted with the way the current management practiced it and presented it to the world. Would he have rewritten his wonderful poem ‘The Destruction of Sennacherib’ like this?
The Destruction of Corporate Scientology
Miscavige came down like the wolf on the fold,
His Registrars panting, hands outstretched for gold;
And the gleam in their eyes was like sharks in the sea,
“Salvation is yours, but salvation’s not free.”
Like the leaves of the forest when autumn is nigh,
Those vultures with begging bowls dropped from the sky,
At every Org function they circled the floor,
“We haven’t enough, you must give us more.”
But some who had realized, that truth is not lost,
And defied those who told them it came at a cost,
Left the ‘Church’ they’d believed in, though painful it seemed,
And found a brave new world, to fulfill their dreams.
And the registrars wail in their glittering Orgs,
Deserted, no students, just shimmering morgues,
Wondering why this could happen, when Miscavige thought,
That belief and fulfillment could only be bought.
All the best
Andrew Robertson
Wellington New Zealand
That’s brilliant, Andrew.
Very good Andrew.
“The almost unspeakable betrayal this organization engages in on a daily basis was understood with deeper implications and a more compelling frame of reference.”
Profound and brilliant write up.The above quote says it all. I loved your post! Your integrity is shinning!
“Virtue cowers in dark retreats,
Crime’s foul stain the righteous beareth,
Perjury and false deceits
Hurt not him the wrong who doeth”
Boethius 480-524 A.D.
Brian – your eloquent description of what really goes on in corporate Scientology is spot on. Instead of achieving freedom a person becomes enslaved waiting for his/her next “fix”- which never materializes. What a horror story.
Great post. Perfectly expresses what everybody who reads this post knows to be true.
Valeska Paris: Do you speak fluent French?
When I stopped trying to find something and started discovering the place that I am is when my true journey of spiritual pursuits that got me into Scientology in the first place began. In doing so I found this blog and in finding this blog I found people like you, all of you here who said NO this is NOT what I signed up for and you CAN’T HAVE ME. You don’t OWN me you don’t even KNOW me. I’m not a number, a lackey, your asset or your liability – I’m ME.
Brian, you’re a gift, as are all of you who have found yourselves in the wake of suppression that attempted to consume us. Black Dianetics and Scientology, cob, founder has replaced Dianetics and Scientology, LRH, founder. It was when I stopped looking for something and just LOOKED, when I stopped trying to understand something and confronted what was that I was able to see what was in front of me for decades. cob had pulled the rug right out from under me while I’d believed he was redecorating!!!
Great post Brian. Onward and upward.
Brian, so much truth is communicated in your note. One of the unavoidable truths in your interview is that what happened to you is occuring in present time and is the kind of treatment that any new Scientologist should expect to receive. There was no interest in your personal well being. You were simply a commodity to the church. In this sense, the church is very much a corporate enterprise and all the Ideal Orgs are simply marketing for the sake of making a profit off the consumer.
Intelligent and insightful observations, Brian. Trying to coerce people into a state of “self-blame” is one of the cult’s tactics to manipulate them. Obviously “blame” is far from the concept of responsibility…
Re: LRH quotes
Please, if one is going to quote something from LRH, it would be better if one quoted it exactly as it was written with the reference. The exact quote is: “SANITY IS THE ABILITY TO RECOGNIZE DIFFERENCES, SIMILARITIES AND IDENTITIES. This is also intelligence.” – LRH from HCO PL 26 April 70R, Data Series 1, THE ANATOMY OF THOUGHT.
When we debate wisdom we run the extreme risk of shifting FROM wisdom into a culturally or religious identity and thus lose what wisdom we had.
When we defend OUR brand of wisdom, we are just perpetuating what divided us.
I TRY to remember these teachings which to me are profound and IF I remember them I don’t lose sight of where I’m headed:
Simple workable definitions:
Samsara = our cyclic existence through lifetimes, over and over, never escaping into something higher
Nirvana = that state of mind/existence wherein we are no longer trapped by
our past identities and delusions
“ALL that appears and exists, all of samsara and nirvana
Has one ground, two paths and two results.”
(buddhist aspiration)
It’s not really that hard to SEE — good and evil. BOTH come from the same ground but they are two DIFFERENT paths and have different results.
I can ask myself — did my interaction with someone create in the other person a feeling of being made wrong (NO MATTER MY PROFESSED intention) — then to that small degree, it was evil as it produced a result that wasn’t toward nirvana.
It’s really a minute by minute look at my actions and my words. Which path am I on THIS minute? And THIS minute and THIS minute.
It’s the ultimate practice of being awake.
And thanks again to Brian for his wonderful essay, to Marty for providing a venue, to Mike for always weighing in and to everyone for what we each bring to the table.
Love,
Windhorse
Windhorse,
Thank you for the gifts you bring.
Profound write up.
I ‘pulled it in.’ I ‘was responsible.’ It was from ‘whole track overts.’ I had been trained well, it seemed. Seems like this has been run on good souls for a very long time. Well done on extricating yourself ASAP.
Some of us took a hell of a lot longer!
Best wishes to you and yours.
Well, Kassapa, you got your head put on a pike. Sigh. No big deal. Code of Honor and all that.
My wife, who teaches kindergarten, would say, “now, this is a valuable learning experience.” But, learning is tough when ideas, experience or whatever get in the way of one’s ability to freshly observe.
I mostly don’t bother to read your posts but the escalation of exchange got my attention. Curious. So I scanned through what was going on and made some rash observations.
This may seem to digress, but it’s background. DM is the King of By-pass. You search through his history and, wow, all he seems capable of doing is by-passing. When LRH wanted his camera, Davie refused to be by-passed. He just seems to have this obsession with by-passing and not being by-passed.
And what a great tool to nullify others and rise above them! Just brush them aside and assume authority over their thoughts, actions and resources.
Problem for Davie was that when he was on his initial By-pass campaign, there were all these terminals that refused to be by-passed. So he had to get rid of them. He had to come up with convincing lies that garnered him enough support so he would have the resources to by-pass and take out these terminals, one by one.
Odd things happen when you by-pass. A strong terminal with enough resources will kick back and reassume the position. Weak terminals tend to get driven lower in conditions.
So, back to you. And I’m not lecturing you or really criticizing you other than to point out these weird efforts to by-pass, which caused kick back. First, completely trying to by-pass Marty you start this campaign against the Buddhists. “Why are you trying to sell Buddhism, George? What’s your intent here, Windhorse? Why don’t you see that you guys are wrong and have no place here until you recognize that Scientology is your only salvation?”
Which points out another by-pass: by-passing another’s rights to form their own considerations, postulates and opinions. All sorts of eval and inval ensued in an attempt to by-pass the integrity of certain individuals and insert your own observations.
All of this with a grand show of intelligence and erudition used to gain sufficient altitude to enable you to by-pass: “I’m smarter than you, so you’d better accept my observations as better than your observations!”
When the bait and badger began, your position began to crumble as you revealed more and more weaknesses. And your defenses began to look more and more like Corporate Scientology: a torrent of justification and pretense dressing up good intentions for assuming control over other’s thoughts, goals and observations. (damn, that’s harsh.)
Looking up the word “independent” might help. No one here needs to be by-passed. Wrong condition. Wrong group.
As for all your admiration for Marty, I admire him too, but get real. When I lick someone’s boots, I want to know what they’ve stepped in.
I haven’t changed my opinion about you–either way. (“Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate”) I agree with Jim’s assessment, but I also recognize your propensity for by-passing which is cause reason enough to beware.
I realize that the church is desperate to insert agents into the group. Being under suspicion is sort of like having the cops question you after your wife ends up murdered. Certain behaviors and relationships draw immediate suspicion. Guilt or innocence has nothing to do with explanations–except in a corrupt judicial system.
I’ll reserve the right to make my own observations and conclusions about that rather than be other-determined.
+1
Once Upon a Time,
I wasn’t going to post again here for quite awhile, but I appreciate the intention of your post, so I’m answering you.
I think you’re right about people feeling bypassed, including Marty. And, I have to admit to intending to bypass. But I never intended for that to upset anyone. I honestly expected it to be appreciated. I was trying to HELP George by cramming him on the doctrine of no-self. Every reply I made to his replies after that was a continuation of that intention to help, or to defend myself against his attempts to reduce my credibility so he could be justified in rejecting the cram. My help failed and became an overt, in that he got upset and dropped out of the blog.
Many of my posts on other topics were made with similar intention. I wanted to share my understanding of certain things, in order to lend a helping hand to others regarding their own understanding. There are many posts in life that serve this type of function — teachers, parents, ministers, doctors, attorneys, etc.
Some people on this blog were glad to receive that kind of help, and others were upset that someone was “arrogant” enough to try to “tell them what to think.”
Maybe it was naive of me to think that what I was trying to do would work. But I was never a DM bot infiltrator. The idea that I was one seemed to become a handy stable datum on which to align the confusion I was stirring up. Group agreement grew on that stable datum, especially after Marty chimed in.
I foolishly thought I could explain things so he and others would understand where I was really coming from, but the mere fact that I was still there and communicating was, at that point, crime enough. Absolutely everything Marty said about my matching up to his “indicia of a Corporate Scientologist” was just plain wrong. None of it made any sense whatsoever. He even made it an indicator of Corporate Scientology that I said anything in my defense.
So, I was guilty if I said nothing (“See? We nailed his ass and he’s speechless.”), and even more guilty if I said something in my defense (“See? He’s just making more excuses and blaming others for his own overts.”) This is exactly the kind of, pardon my French, “Reverse Scientology” used by Corporate Scientology to intimidate and control its members.
If Marty felt that I was bypassing him and others on the blog, he could have simply told me that. I can accept a cram. He didn’t need to “handle” me with a textbook Black PR dead agent campaign. He could have just communicated in a normal fashion. I finally realized that nothing would satisfy him other than my shutting up, so that’s what I did. After all, it’s his blog.
But he never “nailed” me, or “exposed” me, because what he said about me was completely untrue — either a deliberate lie for the sake of winning the game, or pure PTS delusion. The bottom line prime indicator is this: He never actually communicated about my ideas, or about how the nature of my communication might not fit with this particular blog. He skipped any effort to use ARC to resolve the situation, and went right to destruction.
Well, it’s his blog, so that’s his right. But what he said about me was FALSE DATA. And please notice something about my saying that. There have been many actual DM bots coming onto this blog. When they’re exposed, they disappear immediately. I didn’t disappear, and here I still am. That’s because I’m NOT a DM bot.
I shut up yesterday not because I couldn’t confront Marty. It was because as a practical matter he had the power to bar me from the blog altogether if I continued to oppose the bullshit he was spewing about me, and was in a mood to use that power if I did. In open and fair debate on the proposition, “Resolved: Kassapa is a DM bot,” in which both sides would be required to present verifiable facts, answer the other side’s questions, and respond directly to its arguments, he would lose utterly on this proposition.
But, in the “unfair fight” that occured on his home turf yesterday, he could get away with making dismissive, antagonistic, bat-back comments that actually answered or proved nothing, while I was inhibited from “nailing” HIM on what he was doing, because (a) he’d never allow truly winning comments by me through moderation anyway, and (b) if he did, that would undermine his credibility with some of his public, which I did not want to do. I backed out to protect Marty, not myself.
Now, if Marty lets this post through, I guarantee you he will either have nothing to say about it, or he’ll make another dismissive, antagonistic, bat-back comment that answers or proves nothing. He may also say that what I’ve said in this post contains “Corporate Scientology line,” proving with finality that I am a DM bot after all, and he’ll kick me off the blog altogether. The one thing he will NOT do is make any attempt to actually restore ARC with me, or have any analytical communication with me about anything.
That said, I still think Marty is a hero. I totally support what he’s doing. I only disagree with his consideration that the future of Scientology should not include large, well-organized auditor training centers.
Regarding my own participation in his blog, if he even allows that going forward, I will say that I did learn a lesson from all this. I misunderstood the purpose of Marty’s blog, and attempted to use it for a different purpose. As I now see it, Marty’s blog is a 3rd dynamic auditing session, to which people come to get a reduction of their charge on the Church, and which therefore must be conducted with the Auditor’s Code in on the part of all participants. With regard to that purpose, it has been enormously successful. Its intentions, activities, and statistics should be supported.
I assumed until thinking things through earlier today that Marty’s blog was a more general discussion amongst Independent Scientologists, that could include encouraging participants to be Scientologists not something else, understand and apply Standard Tech, and get organized for effective future action. I assumed wrong. I should have done a better Non-E formula to find out what was really needed and wanted on this particular blog. My behavior on the blog was inappropriate to its purpose, but would have been much less so on a blog with the broader purpose I assumed.
I’ll continue to read this blog, but I probably won’t post anymore as Kassapa, except to announce my own blog sometime next year. I’ve EP’d on my own 3rd Dynamic auditing, and will use my own blog to promote forward action for others who feel ready for it.
Awful Freudian for a purported hard core Scientologist.
Awful whiny/motivatorish too….
Mike, I put his response to this in the spam folder. He’s out. Look for his story soon on anti-mike, anti-marty sites. To the less aware who bought his bullshit and exchanged email addresses, beware – to the degree you trust him you will be spanked by corporate Scientology.
Thanks Marty. Yeah, I am expecting it. The one you spammed was virtually his outline. Looking forward to seeing his massive delivery center in Los Angeles (after he has gotten “legal advice” from everyone on how to go about doing it).
Keep an eye on this cracker. DM might even fund it, so that he has something tangible he can then set “precedent” against.
Marty & Mike
Trying to “balance” ( make sense of ) this obsessive
“must be RIGHT” by Kassapa, clearly,began to irritate the shit out of Marty, who equally clearly,
considers him an erudite, arrogant, “BY(P)ASSHOLE”
While this dude may not be a COS plant, his assertions
smack of the same,eventually boomeranging back on
him! “KNOW BEST” is CLEARLY NOT the “BEST” way to go about building Mutual RESPECT ( DUH ! )
I wouldn’t believe there’s many tricks ‘in the book’ that
you guys HAVEN’T seen / used yourselves, to unsettle
a designated “target”, so Kassapa’s obsessive
insistence that you ACCEPT his”KNOW BEST” comm.
collected the CONTEMPT deserved.
While I REALLY LISTEN when Marty speaks, it’s due
to the fact that he has really gotten his hands “dirty”
in every sense of the word and I respect the fact that
he has shown enormous courage,insight and just
plain savvy in coming back from a Concentration
camp of mind-control and slavery, to work through
the de-compression period and ultimately end up
giving the likes of me and thousands of others, a
chance to regain THETA & UNDERSTANDING in
their betrayed lives ! Thank you, SIRS !!!!
Kassapa, WHEN you can afford to have a little
MORE respect & humility, ( GENUINELY! ) you
may ( also,genuinely,) Move ON Up A Little Higher!
Thank you ALL for broadening my Understanding!
Luv & ARC Li’ll bit.
If you look at the writing style, it must have been a multiple personnality writing. Propably 3-4 guys discussing the next texts to be written. How 1.1 !!!!
Kassapa. If you try and pretend you do not know who Kassapa is, then read through all the stuff you wrote on this post, I think you will be very pissed off at this person Kassapa. I am sorry to say it but Kassapa looks like an asshole and pisses off people with the bypass trip (there is a handling for compulsive bypassers, but give it a go. You could try not doing it. Maybe take 20 breaths before answering, and keep your posts to only two paragraphs or something)
If you can swallow pride, and realize you are just GRATING on people, then try to change it. If you are sincere, then please try.
Please do NOT try to answer my post here. Thank you. Good luck.
Mike Laws, Li’ll bit,
Just thought I might add: I love arrogant people. All my really good friends are “arrogant” to degrees. One should never feel the need to make excuses for being beautiful, talented, intelligent. Great ships should be allowed to unfurl their sails and run with the wind.
Just being able is grounds for criticism in this world. I hear comments like, “Emily thinks she’s so beautiful; thinks she’s so smart.” Well, listen, she is. And Michael Jordan thinks he’s a great basketball player.
It’s just when those things about which one is arrogant are used to diminish others, to lessen ÅRC that things take a turn for the worse. Humility is fine, but can turn into a big lie. One’s abilities can be used to enhance the lives of others, while one can still admire self.
Admiration begins at home.
Balance in all things.
Dear Once Upon a Time,
I mostly agree with you, may completely agree with you if semantics are taken into account. There is a line between competence and arrogance. In my not so humble opinion real competence is interwoven with humility and respect and compassion.
I agree that being “able” is grounds for criticism in the world. But such is also the price for the rewards of “a leadership role”, increased personal wealth, comfort, material rewards, etc. Most of the successful people I know feel intuitively that their success requires them to “do good” and help others. To some degree they consider their success a gift or a blessing that has responsibility with it … paying such forward.
The lie you describes spins both ways, yes, perhaps one can make lie of humility, but this seems like it could rarely be malicious or destructive if the success was honestly earned. And while one can perhaps “postulate-up” ones ability by saying i am great and wonderful and so on, but I believe the lies in the Scientology corporate culture are exceptionally destructive. Things like : everyone is good, everything is great, everything was wonderful, everyone that does higher levels is magically successful, everyone that finishes a course is an expert and prodigy in the given area; donations to the IAS result in 3 times more money back to you personally, etc. If you believe this stuff and act on this stuff, you have no real stats to evaluate from, no context to plot a different personal future. For people trying to move their way up, looking for real mentors, looking for people that have accomplished, it becomes a morass impossible to negotiate.
I might write an essay on my experiences on money and success inside Scientology and out.
Mike,
Would love to see the essay.
Semantics are a bitch. English needs additional vocabulary that hasn’t been tainted and which distinguishes between conditions, much like some languages have objective and subjective cases. You’d need a high toned meaning versus a low toned meaning.
Some of the most successful people I know have very little money. By the same token, some of the least successful people I know have oodles of money–but are nasty and miserable and suicidal. Depends on how you define “success.” This society measures success too often as a dollars stat.
I view one’s life and living as a work of art. You can create something that brings satisfaction, or you can create to degrees something that brings dissatisfaction.
But, back to semantics, how do I define “life?”
Which leads back to how do you define and describe anything? I watch intellectual discussions wrestling with the “complexity” and “nuance” of certain concepts, and sometimes weary. Two people can see exactly the same thing but get embroiled in minutia. Or two individuals can see things entirely differently.
How do you define “theta” or “thought” to someone who sees thought as something generated by a brain and spirit as something that’s delusional? And how do you define success as a theta condition that has nothing to do with MEST to such a person? How do you define “arrogance” as a high-toned sense of self-regard that embraces others with admiration and compassion without the need to enable or validate that person’s self-limitations? Pan-determined versus self-determined versus other-determined definition.
I’m sure we see the same thing. Agreement. Who would have thunk?