Myth, Mysticism and Insight

 

In The Tao Of Physics, Fritjof Capra makes some interesting observations on the subject of myth in mysticism and what those of insight come to understand about such.   I had as much in mind when I wrote of constructs in the book ‘What Is Wrong With Scientology?’,  but clearly did not articulate it nearly as well.

“Indian mysticism, and Hinduism in particular, clothes its statements in the form of myths, using metaphors and symbols, poetic images, similes and allegories.  Mythical language is much less restricted by logic and common sense. It is full of magic and paradoxical situations, rich in suggestive images and never precise, and can thus convey the way in which mystics experience reality much better than factual language.  According to Ananda Coomaraswamy, ‘myth embodies the nearest approach to absolute truth that can be stated in words.’

“The rich Indian imagination has created a vast number of gods and goddesses whose incarnations and exploits are the subject of fantastic tales, collected in epics of huge dimensions.  The Hindu with deep insight knows that all these gods are creations of the mind, mythical images representing the many faces of reality. On the other hand, he or she also knows that they were not merely created to make the stories more attractive, but are essential vehicles to convey the doctrines of a philosophy rooted in mystical experience.”

If there is truth to this, what does one make of the understandings or motivations of those who insist upon literal conceptualizations of imaginative religious mythology?   Are they of deep insight themselves?  Are they actively preventing others from developing or attaining deep insight?   You might have experienced some of the cognitive dissonance (or analytical and/or intuitive enturbulance) that is concomitant with inculcation of fantastic mythologies, not as part of an acknowledged ‘mystical experience’ but instead as cold, hard, unquestionable fact.  Or perhaps you are comfortable with the security that comes with faith and belief in mythology.

395 responses to “Myth, Mysticism and Insight

  1. It is unfortunate, TO ME, there are a few commenters who want to air their differences here. And others who feel the need to explain rather unexplainable concepts ad infinitum.

    I enjoyed this post by Marty as I didn’t *really* understand it — but felt that the first response from Jamie was heartfelt and I was interested in hearing from her. And a few others were great.

    The rest is boring (sorry), pedantic (sorry) and should be taken off line and discussed privately —

    This type of blathering drives people away — or at least it drives me away.

    Seems like a LOT of “ego” for people who claim to have figured out non-ego — IMHO

    • On the other hand windhorse, what a study in human interaction and what goes on in la cabesa.

    • Well, can I interest you in some Rockabilly music? This guy has just come on the scene with a Rockabilly / Jazz fusion sound that is really great! Also, there is something supernatural about his story. His want and need to recreate a 50’s era, and his ability to make to fiddlers appear from no where! His affinity for a time gone by, and bringing it right back in the “now”.
      Yes, there is something very mystical behind this literal new album, and this guy’s insight into “the past”, and the way he shifted it into his “future”, in his mind, to land into a “now”.

  2. SCN contains reading about and dealing with some really ancient and unusual for people incidents. I mean they’re not out of ‘every day life’. I cannot tell what the deal is with those incidents. Ever since I remember myself I was fascinated with what is different and unusual and out of the dull routine. Some say about aliens ‘I want to believe’. Well, I want to know –not just about aliens in specific. Belief is confusing information for truth. knowing is knowing truth by direct perception. The end of all beliefs would be such a nice state of (no) case. For the moment I trust more and more in what we were talking about here ‘intuition’. And I take for granted information less and less. I don’t always know truth, but in a way I have a BS detector. If I get charged about something, I know there’s some BS lies involved’ to say it in Scientologese. This compass leads me well, at least much better than my previous ones. For me it doesn’t matter as much whether those incidents occured or not, what matters is whether a condition resolves or worsens. How long do you run an engram for? Untill EP, right? So then what is the EP? It isn’t my business to answer, as I don’t play that game.

    I’m really not going to try to disillusion anybody. I have found myself in trouble for denying my thoughts and swallowing other’s to fit in or to win and so on. So, I only propose that as well. Know>information. Know only what you know.

    • * I usually seem to have something to clarify after I post. About that measurement of charge that I mentioned, I didn’t mean with an e-meter. I mean you can perceive it when you ridge with something (charge). Somebody says something like ‘it’s all bad’ or ‘its going to be OK’ and even if you believe it, you still ridge with it, if it isn’t the truth. Then you can experience the ridges. You experience that its all bad or that its going to be ok in the end… You can practically implant somebody by lying to him. Or you can skip that whole game by not believing.

  3. With Marty’s permission I would like to post the following here because it not only explains the myth of OT levels (how they came about), but it also clarifies where exactly Hubbard went off the rails and sowed the seeds of the destruction of Scientology.

    First a bit about Hubbard’s fixation:

    The trouble with Hubbard’s theory is that it is “self-centric”. On the other hand Buddhism is “isness-centric”

    NOTE: isness = what is out there instead of one’s opinion of it.

    This makes Hubbard’ theory ‘subjective’ and Buddhism ‘objective’.

    In the ARC formula, Hubbard regards affinity as BE, communication as DO, and reality as HAVE. But Buddhism will say that reality is BE, communication is DO, and affinity is HAVE.

    ARC increases as filters (biases, prejudices, fixed, ideas, engrams, etc.) are reduced.

    Reality is more like the degree of appreciation of what is there. That is how one recognizes filters This is BE. This is TR0.

    Communication is the process by which the filters are recognized. (DO).

    Affinity is the state achieved as filters are reduced. (HAVE).

    Affinity is not just attraction-repulsion, or reach-withdraw. Affinity is ‘all-inclusiveness’. Affinity is the lack of filters. Affinity is compassion that Buddha championed. Affinity is the final havingness that is truly OT.

    .

    This self-centric fixation is what made the following happen to John McMaster’s research per the account at http://vinaire.me/2014/05/22/come-home-john/, namely,

    “We decided the listing question would be something along the lines of “Who or what is causing difficulty?”

    “We made a list and then we’d get whatever the item was, and then put the item into a Represent (“Who or what would item represent?”), and then list away. If the item on the first list had been a person, one blew the charge off that person by getting the Represent out of it…

    “We took the results to Hubbard, and he kind of hemmed and hawed and told us it was a little bit long-winded and we could do it faster another way. Eventually he changed the thing down to: “Who is suppressing you?”, and it had to be a person. And when that person was spotted, the PC had to go to the ethics officer with the folder.”

    This process outlined by John McMaster in 1965 would have undercut the OT levels. It seems that Hubbard;s item to “Who or what is causing difficulty?” was what Hubbard came up on OT III.

    Hubbard should have followed it up with the next question, “Who or what would item represent?”

    .

    Here we find the subversion of ethics by Hubbard. Ethics is discipline. It would have to do with the application of mindfulness, the auditor’s code, the code of a Scientologist, etc. It is something applied to oneself by oneself and not by somebody else.

    From this point in 1965, ethics got subverted being used as a convenient escape for failures in Hubbard’s own auditing. You will understand this remark after you have read John McMaster’s account linked above.

    Thank you.

    • “Affinity is the final havingness that is truly OT.”

      That sounds about right. Except what happens when a person has an affinity for ill will? What happens when a person has an affinity for making less of others?

      I have come to think people can be in arc with out of arc purposes.

      Affinity can be a positive or a negative. It can push people up or tear people down. The village folk standing around to view the public execution can have an affinity for sadism.

      Son I feel there is a flaw in this standard of yours. Respectfully submitted because you know, I know you are a very nice man Vinny.

      This standard for OT, I do not believe belongs to the Church of Scientology. And I do not think they have exclusive rights about creating such promise. All thetans are operating thetans as far as I can tell. Otherwise they could not lie, manipulate, wallow in sadism, ser fac, and do all of the things thetans decide to do with their time depending on their purposes. The homeless man on the street is an operating thetan.

      I think personally, the OT thing has been a bit of what people think it is or should be. Imagine what they might like to be. As one puffs up beyond the walls they have created for themselves and forgotten about, they just have more room to spread around. At least out of some fixed ideas.

      When someone goes clear they are often going clear of the reactive mind that is connected their current identity on this time track. If you clear a guy and not his purposes, which were used forward forward identities, he can become dismayed. Because some people do not want to read or understand, they just want someone someway to carry them above it all.

      Money will take not you there. Being obedient will not take you there. Making everyone else disappear will not take you there. Only your mathematical skills at figuring out the problems or challenges you embrace will take you there.

      In the end, every person makes their own choices and follows their own path according to their own purposes. All the good will in the world can not make you wise, aware, perceptive and neither above another person who has the purpose to make nothing out of you.Neither your love for them. If you do not remove yourself from their path, if you are not that intelligent, you can become very much the effect of them.

      The wise men of Tibet were slaughtered by robotic and superstitious soldiers. How OT was that? They just didn’t glow it right with love. A person who is consumed with a purpose to destroy doesn’t want your love or affinity. They do not a place any value on that.

      You write about your purposes here Vinny. Your understandings. What makes sense to you. And you get into even more complexities.

      I see it as a simple thing. If you have a purpose to win, you win. If you have a purpose to know, you know. If you don’t, you don’t. It doesn’t matter who comes along and offers you and hand up or a hand down. This is not about Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard . This is the way it goes in every group, every relationship, every country, every family in every corner.

      This is just the way I see it. It comes down to the person’s purpose.

      I do agree with McMaster’s assessment . But even knowing this, he had purposes also.

      A person can be redirected to re organize their purposes. That is really all a person can manage in Scientology. But this is highly beneficial as far as I can see.

      • Oracle said: “That sounds about right. Except what happens when a person has an affinity for ill will? What happens when a person has an affinity for making less of others?”

        The simple answer is that when a person has affinity for ill will, the ill will dissolves. When a person has affinity for making less of others, he realizes why he is doing so, and he ceases doing so.

        You become what you resist. Affinity comes about when that resistance ceases.

      • Oracle says: “I have come to think people can be in arc with out of arc purposes.”

        When one is truly in ARC, understanding comes about and any out-of-arc manifestation simply dissolves.

        As I wrote above:

        In the ARC formula, Hubbard regards affinity as BE, communication as DO, and reality as HAVE. But Buddhism will say that reality is BE, communication is DO, and affinity is HAVE.

        ARC increases as filters (biases, prejudices, fixed, ideas, engrams, etc.) are reduced.

        Reality is more like the degree of appreciation of what is there. That is how one recognizes filters This is BE. This is TR0.

        Communication is the process by which the filters are recognized. (DO).

        Affinity is the state achieved as filters are reduced. (HAVE).

        Affinity is not just attraction-repulsion, or reach-withdraw. Affinity is ‘all-inclusiveness’. Affinity is the lack of filters. Affinity is compassion that Buddha championed. Affinity is the final havingness that is truly OT..

        I think that the concept of affinity has become subverted in Scientology because of the reversal of order (see above) by Hubbard. Buddha had it right.

        That is why we do not see compassion in Scientology. Scientology is all business.

        • “That is why we do not see compassion in Scientology. Scientology is all business.”

          I have no idea who “we” is here Vinny. It is just not me. I have known many people exploring Scientology and involved with Scientology that had no problems manifesting compassion. I realize you have been sailing in the winds of ill will but these are seasonal. And a minute portion of the over all will of the people, most of who are still curious.

          • Oracle.
            I agree on many points. Most of the people I have met through Scn. were warm and truly caring.
            Mark

      • Oracle says:
        “Affinity can be a positive or a negative. It can push people up or tear people down. The village folk standing around to view the public execution can have an affinity for sadism.

        Son I feel there is a flaw in this standard of yours. Respectfully submitted because you know, I know you are a very nice man Vinny.”

        I don’t think Oracle knows me! Haha. I am probably terrible for Scientology as Hubbard constructed it.

        Scientology has no concept of true affinity. Reality is the sadism (BE), Communication is seeing why sadism is there (DO), True affinity arises as the filters causing sadism are dissolved (HAVE).

        • “I don’t think Oracle knows me! ”

          “Scientology has no concept of true affinity. Reality is the sadism (BE), Communication is seeing why sadism is there (DO), True affinity arises as the filters causing sadism are dissolved (HAVE).

          As I mentioned, people can be in ARC with out of ARC purposes.

        • V…..”Scientology has no concept of true affinity. “‘
          Elizabeth.. Scientology has no concept of true affinity.. Of course not, but those who studied scientology do…and those who have had auditing know what affinity Is and exists…and every one on this planet has reality on the subject+ experience.

      • Oracle says:
        “This standard for OT, I do not believe belongs to the Church of Scientology. And I do not think they have exclusive rights about creating such promise. All thetans are operating thetans as far as I can tell. Otherwise they could not lie, manipulate, wallow in sadism, ser fac, and do all of the things thetans decide to do with their time depending on their purposes. The homeless man on the street is an operating thetan.”

        One sees a thetan because one is looking through the “self-centric” filter of Hubbard. When that filter is removed the view becomes reality-centric. That is what it is. So as-isness can now take place.

        There is no thetan or operating thetan in reality. There are only filters and the reduction of those filters.

        Scientology is like an onion made up of layers upon layers of filters. OT is simply another layer of filter on top of the layer of filter called ‘thetan’.

        There is wonderful freedom when one gives up the self-centric filter of the belief that one is a thetan.

        Haha…. I must apologize to Hubbard on Buddha’s behalf.
        .

        • “One sees a thetan because one is looking through the “self-centric” filter of Hubbard.”

          Who or what is “one”? Your blanket evaluations are reckless and lazy math.

      • Oracle says:
        “I think personally, the OT thing has been a bit of what people think it is or should be. Imagine what they might like to be. As one puffs up beyond the walls they have created for themselves and forgotten about, they just have more room to spread around. At least out of some fixed ideas.”

        OT is a reality constructed by Hubbard. He marketed it by the lure of super abilities and powers. He then used people’s affinities to build up this fiction from which he personally benefitted.

        He discarded people after their affinities were all used up. That’s what he did to John Mcmasters and anybody else who came close to him, including his own wife and children.

        He chose as his successor somebody who was like him.

        I am glad that I kept my distance from him when on Apollo. He did like me enough to put me on the Data Series course and make me a Programs Manager, and later CO India.

        But India is a tough nut for Scientology to crack.

        .

        • Your ruds are out on Hubbard. You have elected yourself into a prosecutor identity, not one of Buddhist. I think your purpose is one of judge and prosecutor.

          To lay out the crime scenes, to point the finger at the “guilty”, to argue law of who and who not has crossed the crime scenes. Who and who not has guilt. Who is guilty of ignorance and why. Who should be entitled to the “ruling class” of the spiritually supreme. To list the daily crimes.

          Vinny, you are town crier.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_crier

      • Oracle writes:
        “When someone goes clear they are often going clear of the reactive mind that is connected their current identity on this time track. If you clear a guy and not his purposes, which were used forward forward identities, he can become dismayed. Because some people do not want to read or understand, they just want someone someway to carry them above it all.”

        Clarity comes when filters are removed. Clear is simply a step in the process. Here the gross filters are removed and a person feels a lot better. But the finer filters are still there. They cannot be removed by OT processes which use the filter of a self-centric viewpoint.
        .

      • Oracle write:
        “Money will take not you there. Being obedient will not take you there. Making everyone else disappear will not take you there. Only your mathematical skills at figuring out the problems or challenges you embrace will take you there.”

        The total amount of money I have spent of Scientology is not more than twenty thousand dollars, fifteen thousand of which I simply wasted.

        I could not be brainwashed in Sea Org, so I was let go because the “Fitness Board” found me unfit for Sea Org.

        You are right that my mathematical shill has helped me see the curves placed there by Hubbard. You are right about this, Oracle. MIT did come to my rescue, and so did Buddhism.

        You are welcome to my MATHS SELF-LEARNING CENTER.

        http://vinaire.me/mathematics/

        .

      • Oracle writes:
        “In the end, every person makes their own choices and follows their own path according to their own purposes. All the good will in the world can not make you wise, aware, perceptive and neither above another person who has the purpose to make nothing out of you.Neither your love for them. If you do not remove yourself from their path, if you are not that intelligent, you can become very much the effect of them.”

        Haha! You are looking through the self-centric filter again, Oracle. Hubbard reached deep within you.

        There is no one to be made wise, aware, or a super hero. There are no different paths. There is no one to be made nothing of. There is no cause separate from the effect.

        There is only reality knotted with inconsistencies. Recognize those inconsistencies for what they are without looking through the filter of self, and dissolve those knots.

        You are that knotted universe. When the knots are removed you flow freely bathed in universal affinity.
        .

      • Oracle writes”
        “The wise men of Tibet were slaughtered by robotic and superstitious soldiers. How OT was that? They just didn’t glow it right with love. A person who is consumed with a purpose to destroy doesn’t want your love or affinity. They do not a place any value on that.”

        Take the self-centric filter off and you simply see a play of postulates and considerations. There is simply the reality knotted up due to inconsistencies.

        Oracle, you are making things too complex. All you have to do is recognize inconsistencies one by one and start resolving them on a gradient. That is where SUBJECT CLEARING comes in.

        http://vinaire.me/2014/05/01/subject-clearing/

        .

      • Oracle writes:
        “You write about your purposes here Vinny. Your understandings. What makes sense to you. And you get into even more complexities.”

        Quite an evaluation, isn’t it. But the complexities you see are your own because you are looking through a self-centric filter.

        What you are seeing as my purpose is simply the postulates and considerations in the process of unknotting themselves. There is nobody trying to make sense out of anything.

        • I do not see your audition on the stage of life as a complexity. You are into illusion and ceremonial magic. You have purposes to make nothing out of others, when they are already nothing. You effort to make zero from zero. To make something from zero. The wrong items and wrong indications you dispense with freely are of a carnival nature. The crams you toss on others negates their point of view as invalid. What words and knowledge you have acquired, you employ to dominate. If you had real certainty you would not be so threatened by the thoughts and actions of others. That is not very complex and you are not very hard for me to understand at all. You struggle with math. Like so many others.

      • Oracle writes:
        “I see it as a simple thing. If you have a purpose to win, you win. If you have a purpose to know, you know. If you don’t, you don’t. It doesn’t matter who comes along and offers you and hand up or a hand down. This is not about Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard . This is the way it goes in every group, every relationship, every country, every family in every corner.”

        What is winning? What is knowing? Who is winning and knowing? There is just a wonderful illusion.

        But underlying that illusion there are postulates and considerations in play. There are knotted up into small knots and there are big knots. There is also the Gordion knot of the self-centric filter. To me this view is very simple.

        Do you find it complex, Oracle?
        .

      • Oracle writes:
        “This is just the way I see it. It comes down to the person’s purpose.

        I do agree with McMaster’s assessment . But even knowing this, he had purposes also.

        A person can be redirected to re organize their purposes. That is really all a person can manage in Scientology. But this is highly beneficial as far as I can see.”

        So it comes down to a person’s purpose. But you see that purpose is an after thought. First you need to define what a person is?

        Hubbard used this subjectivity of “person” to build up the fiction of Scientology. This works only in those areas where the tradition has been self-centric. The theistic tradition is self-centric.

        The Hindu and Buddhist tradition is reality-centric. It may have been corrupted here and there, but the core is reality-centric. That is why East would be a tough nut to crack for Scientotolgy.

        First one would have to promote a self-centric culture in the East before you can lure them into Scientology.

        OK. I am done.
        .

        • “But you see that purpose is an after thought. First you need to define what a person is?”

          No, I do not see that purpose is an afterthought.

          No, I have no need to define what the person is.

          You are doing a different form of math which involves symbols. I see the symbols as an afterthought. You are using them as a premise. Knots, Identities, circles, forms, locations and cultures. These are are symbolic.

          Who is winning? The person who is simply aware of what they are doing and why they are doing it.

          You ask, “What is knowing”? That is knowing.

        • “OK. I am done.”

          Oh, I think you are a long way from done. And I think you are a long way from curious about. I think you will continue plodding down in the enforce band working to convince others of your spiritual supremacy for a long time to come. This has become a tradition.

          The embalmers of Egypt filled their coffers by recognizing the “spiritually supreme”.

          • Making nothing out others is fun, isn’t it, Oracle?

            • I found this amusing until the guy came to pick up my trash this afternoon. I only saw him from the back and I raced to hand him something. When he turned around and flashed that smile ,,,,,,,,,,,,, Whew!

              He ran a big CAN HAVE with the affinity! Really caused me to lose interest in this meddling with you.

              • VINNIE..”Making nothing out others is fun, isn’t it,?
                That is your kind of fun since that is what you been doing for years..

                • Thank you, Elizabeth, I love you too. :)

                  • V.. if that would be true we would be friends, really good friends..So we have missed out on that experience… Have a lovely evening!

                    • Egoistic attitude and blaming others is always a barrier to friendship.

                      Sent from my iPhone

                      >

                    • V.. you should have thought of this before and apply this principle to yourself.

                    • You seem to be implying that it just applied to me.

                    • We cant share our realities since you have yours and I have mine.. We just have communication but no reality on each other universe… that is how I see it.

                    • Does that mean you have to be nasty toward my reality? I guess it means to you just having fun, isn’t it? Your policy is not to follow any rules, isn’t it?

                      And then you go up the wall when there is only a hint of criticism about your behavior.

                      In truth, that is a just a garden-variety nasty disposition, and not at all enlightened.

                    • right you are as always :)

                    • I just have one PS : you don’t like when your reality is opposed.. Well, you have a method, used that method and learn what you don’t like when someone opposes you beliefs.
                      I am not delicate, I have no manner, don’t fallow rules. I just comment, put there what I believe in in that moment. And you are making lots of assumptions and I seem have different assumption on the same subject. You need to confront your side and I need to do the same here. So go put out what ever. and I do the same.! Stop complaining.

                    • I just don’t like the nastiness.

                    • You always treated me as a nasty garden variety weed which never been hybridised =never made it into better class-knowing class, so you are wondering why I trait you this way? You have put me here, so this is what you get… weedy thingy…:) not a bad place to be..knowing ones faults..

                    • You need to handle that reactive mind of yours. :)

                    • V your reality, your assumption You need to work on the concept why you see every one as you do.. If you would allow some beingness, By that I mean if you would allow others to have what they have you would not be pushing -promoting your blog your beliefs.
                      Now If I would be allowing you beingness and let you say what ever you want. we would not need communication. Sift this through your filters..:) I don’t want you to swallow this in one lump sum undigested, that would be to hard on your old body. :)

                    • V.. enlightened? what you possibly know of enlightenment? You don’t believe anything outside of what you know, nothing can be true, it is impossible to be real, simply because that belief don’t have the seal of approval from you.

              • Permanent improvement in ARC cannot take place until some filters are permanently dissolved.

                http://vinaire.me/2014/05/15/arc-affinity-reality-and-communication/

                .

    • I might add that if one has a purpose to negate the value of others, The Church with it’s values placed on people, is a place where such a purpose can be fully dramatized. It is the temple of making something out of nothing, and making nothing out of everything. These are purposes too. To make something out of nothing, to make nothing out of everything. Making things appear and disappear. Very magical. Once these kind of purposes swell up they can gobble up a person in unique ways.

      You find people coming out of that place who for the remainder of their time are making everything out of nothings, and making nothing out of everything. And they align with plenty of other people that are doing the same thing that have never been a part of Scientology. They just have the same purposes.

    • Hi Vinaire

      Here is a little something that you may find interesting.

      At one point I did the “Route to Infinity” course. Somewhere during that experience I had a cognition.

      What happened was I “realized” that, for me, “A”, “R”, and “C” are not actually three separate things at all. I suddenly saw them as three “aspects” (viewpoints) of the same thing. What that single thing is, I find hard to put into words. I actually do not consider that the word, or concept, of “understanding” fully embraces it.

      I had always had some dissonance with the concept of their separateness when I tried to view “pure Affinity”, “pure Reality”, etc. Each always carried with it aspects of the other two. You simply cannot have “Affinity”, at any level, without also having “Reality” and “Communication.” You cannot raise one point of the ARC Triangle, one iota, without also immediately and inextricably raising the other two. You cannot have more Affinity than you do Reality or Communication, etc., because they are all simply different “ways of looking at” a single phenomena.

      From your comment, I turned this realization back onto the related concepts of “Be”, “Do”, and “Have”. They also appear to be inseparable, on closer inspection. Seemingly, what they are all inseparable aspects of is Life. Turning this look back onto ARC, I get another look at what A,R and C may be three aspects of.

      Projected further, one could potentially view many similar “triads” in a similar light… Start, Change, Stop… Birth, Living, Death… Space, Energy, Matter, etc. (I am even so bold as to extend it to my selected understandings of Ethics, Tech, and Admin).

      Anyway… Thanks for shaking the tree.

      Eric

      • Eric.
        I also see many principals of existence which come in threes.
        According to Ken Ogger, 3 dimensions of space are the minimum and simplest system which can contain substance. That is why we settled on 3.
        Mark

      • Eric, LOL! You are welcome.

        .

      • Amazing coincidence, Eric. This is what I wrote to MARKNR this morning.

        It is error to separate space from time, spiritual from physical, and thetan from body.

        When two things are aspects of the same phenomenon, they are not actually separate even when you separate them in abstraction.

        Affinity, Reality and Communication are not separate from each other. The eight dynamics are not separate from each other.

        If we study one aspect at a time. It does not make it some independent enity. Just because we have different concepts, it does not make the actualities connected with them separate.

        See things as they are.

        http://vinaire.me/2014/05/15/arc-affinity-reality-and-communication/#comment-21485

        .

        • “Affinity, Reality and Communication are not separate from each other.”

          LRH already stated that back in 1951, in *Science of Survival*.

          “The triangle of affinity, reality, and communication could be called an interactive triangle in that no point of it can be raised without affecting the other two points and raising them, and no point of it can be lowered without affecting the other two points. The postulated reason for this is that affinity, reality, and communication are component parts of theta, and thus affinity, reality, and communication are three manifestations of the same thing.”

        • Vinaire and Mark

          Ahhh… How little the concepts of the separation of things (and “non- things”) holds up to careful scrutiny.

          Eric

  4. Myth, Mysticism and Insight — somewhere in all of that to me is magic …

    As in. the magic of synchronicity or the magic of something “out of the blue” happening that I might have been thinking about etc etc

    As a child I adored Greek Mythology and had trouble figuring out IF it was real or not – constantly bugging my mother – is this real? Seems real to me – I’d say as a 5-8 year old.

    I’m not speaking to the magic of spells as that ultimately is always “power over”

    BUT I digress — there is talk about reincarnation on this or other threads, and OTs and LRH’s intention etc

    Some have said that other wisdom traditions don’t have the intrigue that is connected with LRH/Scientology — or at least have implied that wisdom traditions (read Eastern thought) *might* be more pure.

    For those interested in intrigue, subterfuge and yes, murder read:

    Karmapa: The Politics of Reincarnation by Lea Terhune

    Keep in mind that the Karmapa is now the 17th Karmapa – head of a Tibetan Lineage (Kagyu). The Dalai Lama is the 14th Dalai Lama – head of the Gelug Lineage as well as spiritual leader/political leader of Tibet.

    Based on how many Karmapas (17) there have been versus how many Dalai Lamas (14) you’d think that the Karmapas would be the political and spiritual leader of Tibet.

    Nope — the Geluk lineage won that battle.

    You won’t think of Tibetan Buddhism in the same way nor of reincarnation.

    The current scientology/indy/ex/proLRH/antiLRH intrigue has MANY similar aspects.

    We, as human beings, seemed to be wrapped the same AND differently. What attracts us to something can either be our aberrations OR our wisdom. Our aberrations can become our wisdom though depending on what we do.

    I determine IF the path I am walking seems workable is IF I’m willing to step off of it for awhile, test out something else and perhaps step back on the path OR bring the something else TO the path.

    Otherwise it might be akin to walking a yellow brick road …

    • Yes, Magic. Possibly ALL is Magic. In order to live successfully, one must perform the correct rituals. To drive a car to the store, one must use the right ingredients and perform the correct rituals with them. One must select the right key, insert it in the right receptacle in the car, and turn it the correct amount in the correct direction or the car won’t start. Life is all about peforming the correct rituals in order to get the results you want. Magic.

      • Valkov… right you are, people want magic but few see understand what is true magic; no matter what we do what we see-experience is a magical moment.

      • “But mysticism/occultism isn’t our source. Our source, actually, is magic.” from a Lecture given on 29 January 1958, The History of Clearing by L Ron Hubbard.

        “Scientology has opened the gates to a better World. It is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion. This is from 1954 edition of COHA.

        Hubbard: “If you want to get real tragic, forget it was just magic.”

    • Fabulous post! XXOO

    • Windhorse,

      You made a very good point. Thanks

      I think that what it all boils down to, is that people really need to learn to see a mystical system as just a vehicle or tool for what they are trying to accomplish.

      And some people really need to learn to let go of the obsessive deification of their gurus or so called prophets.

      Both of those flaws are pervasive in almost every system, but they were taken into embarrassing heights in Scientology, in part because of all the deception and trickery that Hubbard used to hide his positioning as a quasi-divine being.

      The good news is that we live in times where information flows freely, and anybody can study any system without getting stuck in the machinery of devotion to a single speaker or system.

    • Windhorse, maybe SUBJECT CLEARING may halp you understand what the eastern tradition truly is, and also the original western tradition.

      http://vinaire.me/2014/05/01/subject-clearing/

      • I do not agree that she is ignorant and confused Vinny. And neither are you. You need not create myth in others that do not align with the myth you create of yourself.

        • Hello there Miss Oracle.
          So good to hear from you and speak to you. You have a strength and directness that I find refreshing. Are you enjoying life and spreading your wings after your ‘Ls’? Any related experiences to relate? I’d love to hear them.

          I have enjoyed your banter with Vin. It is bringing out a variety of ideas. With every retort I find useful information which helps me in my work. Whether positive or negative. There have been several times that I saw an odd or inconsistent thought or fixed opinion that I also recognized in my self. I did a search and found the source.

          Oh, by the way, I did a thorough investigation of that ‘authority’ thing that I asked you about last year. Since there was no pre set path or written procedure to follow, I went at it unstructured and just looked and looked. I noticed that i was ‘concerned’ about this area of case in myself. This was a stop in itself. I released the concern and replaced it with curiosity and adventure. A few thousand incidents later (some scanned, some studied in detail) I found there were a large group of purposes, considerations, postulates, and opinions, all loosely woven together. It was a bit time consuming but so much clarity and, well, lets call it breathing room, was released.

          Many of the ideas that were stuck in my thinking were instructed or suggested to me by those I admired. (Thanks Erzsebet) There were at least 75 to 100 very old computations and little side thoughts along with thousands of confirmations and confusions which locked in and distorted my thinking and ‘feelings’. There was no one or two original considerations which these areas depended upon. Like I said, it was more like a web than a column resting on a single base. This surprised me. My definition of respect for others has completely, totally changed. It now more closely resembles love and curiosity, if that makes sense.

          I made another important tech discovery that some others may have already found. There were several groups of incidents that had to be looked at in their entirety, instead of grinding on one at a time. This was necessary to see how the series of decisions had grouped together to form an unconscious thought process. (Thanks, Vin.) Most aberrations do hinge around key incidents, but many groups of incidents congeal to form their own single entity. I consider this another bit of data of magnitude.

          There was something that I lost in the process, which was a great relief. I no longer have other’s opinions, statements or instructions/orders as a stable point to hold on to, operate from. I was using that as a means of avoiding doing the work myself. I was also using authority figures as a means of establishing ARC with those around me who were following the leaders. I am now much more free to investigate, observe, and think and decide for myself,….or not. It’s really wonderful.
          Those around me are starting to look upon me as an authority figure, asking for assistance, guidance. I always work WITH THEM as a partner to handle life’s foibles and make decisions. It’s really enjoyable.

          There are too many other insights and realizations to list. Thank you for your help this last year. You are quite a gal.
          Love, Mark

          • Mark…
            when one believes that one is or can be a teacher better head back into session with great speed. Teacher-guru.. authority these concepts are solid considerations which makes one believe that they know more than others do, that they are important, above others, that they are the one who can show the way.. [show the way to where.. when self do not know the path it self]
            There are few hundred considerations-agreements on these subjects. This subject is like walking in the maze and leads nowhere but to a realization which is the only thing they are good for= those considerations.
            My biggest. OVERT I HAVE COMMINTED IS IN THE RECENT MEMORIES OF HUMANS.. and it is on overt of immense magnitude because I believed I was leading out and in fact I lead into!
            The blind was me and I was leading those who could not see.. [ this overt wrong belief-teaching is still continues by others who believe it was true and leads to freedom of the soul]
            Leading being a leader or on authority is to take responsibility of the outcome of ones teaching..

            • Hello Erzsebet.
              Thanks for you help on this subject. I have seen many times when I was the leader and many people looked up to and followed me. Lots of really exciting and crazy adventures ensued. Lots of insights to be had on this subject. Lots of good times, lots of disasters. Saved some people, got a lotta people killed. Good guy, bad guy, it all depended on the viewpoint at the time. My benevolent or twisted intentions and the source of those intentions were the key to releasing the hold they had on me. All flows.

              The adventure continues.
              Mark

          • Hi there Mark! Actually I have only done 2 of the L’s. Haven’t done L10 yet. Not sure about spreading my wings but my appetite for reading has become insatiable.

            Yeah, the curiosity makes a lot of sense. And I do understand the power of decisions and the realities that manifest as a result.

            I am grateful for your curiosity and your refreshing want for more.

            XXOO T.O.

            • Hello young lady.
              Thank you for the reply and acknowledgement.
              Actually, I wanted to highlight some of the details of my recent work. Especially that some areas of case are grouped together under a series of incidents that need to be studied in their entirety. That some chains need to be scanned up the track after basic to get a complete understanding of how it affected you. That ‘concern’ over an area of case can hinder it’s resolution. That the area of authority may be a common phenomenon which, if thoroughly investigated, may be of use to many others.

              I have not worn the hat of developer of processes in the past. Working with others is quite different than an undirected journey. You have read other comments from me that I considered tech advancements.

              Your thoughts and opinions are desired and appreciated.

            • Oracle.
              The New Life Rundown. Do you have a new life?
              I haven’t done any L’s. From what I have read, it is a different direction from the work I have been doing. I intend to do all directions of work, but would you recommend these sooner than later? Not asking for a C/S, just your opinions.
              Mark

              • The sooner the better. It was a game changer for me.

              • I was one of the guinea pigs for LRH on the New Life Rundown. I was run on it at Daytona Beach on our way to Fort Harrison. The final results were fantastic for me.

                I was later surveyed for a name for this rundown and I had suggested “Revitalization Rundown.” It was later issued under the name “New Vitality Rundown”. It could be a different RD.

                There was one experience on this RD that I can never forget. I was run on an L&N process. It touched something very fundamental within me. The auditor gave me the wrong item. Suddenly, everything seemed to go dark around me. I was totally engulfed in depression. Those were the worst few hours in my life. The folder was rushed to LRH who was in Daytona Beach too. I was then taken in session and given the right item. Suddenly, everything around me was bright again.

                I can never forget that “switch off / switch on” phenomenon. It was beyond anything to which logic may be applied. It was almost like something that happened at the level of DNA.

                Maybe someday it would be explained. :)

                • V.. it can be explained by any auditor or those who had auditing.

                • Wonderful story, Vin.
                  Thanks for letting us know some of your experiences.
                  Any lasting benefits? You seem unusually bright to me.
                  I was referring to L-11, The New life Rundown. I don’t have any specific info on the New Vitality Rundown. Care to give the uninformed some details. basic purpose, direction of the auditing?
                  Mark

        • I am just going by what she wrote. I don’t think she is ignorant or confused either.

  5. Scientology is an engine counstructed by Hubbard that takes affinities of the people as input and then outputs a reality favored by Hubbard.

    Buddhism is an ancient engine constructed by Buddha that takes inconsistencies in reality (filters) as input and then outputs universal affinity.

    Take your pick.

    • “Scientology is an engine counstructed by Hubbard that takes affinities of the people as input and then outputs a reality favored by Hubbard”.

      The output reality certainly is not one that would be favored by the late Hubbard. Maybe you should view the output.

    • Hubbard’s gift was, he was able to keep people motivated about exploring the super natural.

      So was the person who invented the Uoija Board.

      David Miscavige is the anti of the purpose, where he brings punishment to those who explore the super natural.

      You have people that are aligning with both purposes. Even people that think they are opposing Miscavige, who are actually on board with his purpose. To punish anyone who explores the super natural.

      People can easily become lost in the supernatural with out over head lights, street signs, and groups to keep them based in the literal. A scout and a team leader. It is not easy to occupy two dimensions at the same time for a lot of people. They must either be in the literal, or in the supernatural. Alive, or dead. In the real or in the unreal. And it is discomforting for them to think there may be people that can shift between parallel dimensions. Because their values will shift. And this can cause wedge in reality. It erodes at the “one for all and for one” method of surviving.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija

      • No one occupies two dimensions.. those are just considerations… there is one MEST UNIVERSE… and MEST is only energy.. time do not exist, matter is energy, and definitely there is no space since ”space” is illusion it self baecause what the ”EYES”” can see is not real.
        All awareness is on spiritual level, no matter what the person beliefs in that is still happening on the SUPERNATURAL UNIVERSE… even if the person believes that he is solid as the brick outhouse, that belief belongs to the supernatural universe..
        All thoughts, beliefs, illusions pictures any one has is the supernatural universe.
        When your thoughts become solid: they appear in solid form front of your eyes fall on the ground in that moment than you can you are a solid person. You think solid, you see solid, even the air you let out falls on the ground and clanks than you are solid citizen..

    • V… knock off the Buddha bit.. you don’t know a bloody thing about that person, who he was, how he lived, what were his realities and where those realities have come from. and GAUTAMA have not constructed any kind of crap you are talking about. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS LIVING THE MYTH!!!!!!!!!!

    • V… once more with intentions…Gautama has constructed nothing…Words he has spoken the sounds melted away in the same moment as they were born.. What ever there is about that guy… is THE MYTH CREATED BY THOSE WHO NEEDED TO BELIEVE IN SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
      Live that guy alone, he has a new body, old by now and happen to have a grand time.

  6. People don’t see the myth they have incorporated within themselves. Thus, the myth of self, oberver, etc. are born.

    There is awareness of objects just like there are objects to be aware of. That awreness is always associated with an object. Why do we need to create a mythical observer to associate awareness to?

    Let there be awareness of objects. Let there be objects to be aware of. No more additives please! Keep it simple.
    .

    • V…. ”Why do we need to create a mythical observer to associate awareness to?”
      Those myths were real and people not only seen them but lived them it was their lives… Giants and Unicorns roamed the lands and still do… Myths are still lived… interestingly being a human too is a myth. To bad you cant see that.. therefore you cant see either the Fairies, and the little people who live in the forest. You see, eyes don’t see the real universe we live in. Robots don’t have other realities, they only can see through the lenses.. that is the reason they are robots.. they don’t have reality outside what they have been fed—learned from others..
      insult? no…no insult intended, just my reality how I view this universe, I see the magical place, full of wondrous things..where 2+2 can be any number at all, in fact here we don’t have numbers :)

    • V ….. I am ten day late reading here your comments and they still stink of nonsense; after ten days! Wow.. man if stupidity could kill [ it do in fact] you should be down under years back..

  7. Vinaire,
    Of all of the comments you have made on this
    post, it comes down to two paragraphs asking us
    to pick between Scientology and Buddhism?
    I understand you are well versed and fully studied
    on these two subjects. I think we all know what your
    pick would be.
    Your offer of picking between Scientology and Buddhism
    is an enforced reality. That to me is a break in affinity.

    • I have no intention of forcing anything on anybody.

      It is just my recent realization how the sequence R-C-A is reveresed in Scientology as A-C-R. You may not agree with this, and that is fine.

  8. Potpie.. if you would pick Buddhism he would point out that the way is scientology.. His whole point is to make you wrong no matter what is your beliefs are.. He will evaluate, invalidate than when you run out of anything to say than he will point the way into his blog and tell you that he will show you the way..his way to enlightenment. He want to implant.. the only knowledge there is, which is only known by him..

  9. I see the following as the first postulate of Metaphysics:

    KHTK Postulate M-1: Underlying all reality there seems to be a primordial field, which when disturbed, gives rise to awareness and electromagnetic radiation.

    The theoretical ground state for this universe is postulated to be an undisturbed primordial field that has no frequency, wavelength or period. But this ground state is unknowable because awareness arises only when the “primordial field” is disturbed. The disturbance then appears to be traveling through a primordial field.

    The spiritual aspect of this disturbance is awareness (consciousness). The physical aspect of this disturbance is light (electromagnetic radiation). These two aspects are referred to as PURUSHA and PRAKRITI in the ancient scriptures.

    Awareness appears to be the property of the disturbance. Light appears to be outward expression of the disturbance. Awareness at this level is of a primordial nature. It builds up as perception and discrimination as light gains wave-length and frequency.

    There is no self at this level. The universe consists only of radiating awareness and light. The universe itself is the primordial self. While matter and objects are generated from electromagnetic radiation, soul and self are generated from awareness.

    http://vinaire.me/2014/03/06/khtk-postulates-for-metaphysics-part-1/

    .

    • V… In my reality… awareness it self is doing something, being aware is already connecting to ”knowing”, if one do not know than cant possibly being ”aware”.
      Again in my reality, “awareness ” is relatively new term since becoming aware one has to know what one is aware of, and that is judging, comparing.
      Toss these thought about, but before you do please remove those occluding filters. :)

    • V…PS;; have you occurred to you that there is another universe outside of this Universe which is nothing more than on energy field?
      And the awareness was there long before we become aware of this Universe, have it occurred to you that this energy field is really nothing more than on energy field and the awareness is outside of this fiend?

    • V…… I have total recall of the track and not only mine but millions of other beings too. So this bit of reality gained gives me a very different view of the Universe.
      Here is something to think over: the reason scientist and others who do their best ”by trying” to figure out this universe but cant and that is simply because the puzzle pieces don’t fit together.
      The pieces which they want to fit into each other belong to a very different universe : ”awareness” is one of them.
      Of course those who are in this place here have some of the ”memory” …reality available now of that Universe but they do not know that it belongs a very different reality which is not based on energy field.
      The guessing will be going on for long time, but one has to step out of this energy-field to understand what is beyond..
      Of course, I understand that this view-reality I have presented is totally unacceptable by you. since to you I am nothing but on airhead, delusional person.. I find it most interesting that people like you by the millions went into scientology for one reason only: to find reality beyond what was or is available, yet, when reading that yes some one in this case me have achieved that, that can see beyond the ”normal human beliefs’ is labelled as delusional, out of her mind.. :)

    • V….. If I would have gone into a well know university same as you have, and studied sciences, and become a scientist my self, because of that credibility I would have collected, my findings now, what I see and understand these realities about the energy fields, in this Universe and the existence of the Universe outside of this I have written posted in the past few years would have brought incredible earth shaking new realities to the science community and this findings would be recognised as something brilliant..wow wow wow stuff… But I never went to University, did not become a scientist but I have spent 41 years being audited and solo auditing.. every day.. That sure takes me out of the realities of the’ ‘scientist” who at the best to their abilities can only assume what is this Universe made of, and how it works.

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