DM’s personal lawyer has to explain “scripture” because Tommy can’t and DM won’t? In the end, Christie very capably exposed the lawyer-speak flip-flopping C of M has been engaged in for the past few years.
By the way, Jeff has posted some insightful post-show commentary for each segment at http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
The LIES about enforced disconnection is incredible.
Old Peter Gilham of Gilham vitamin stores has not been able to talk to his 2 daughters Janice Grady (former WDC member) and Terri Gamboa (former ED of Author Services Inc…for some 20 years.
He is not permitted to speak to grandchildren he has never met.
He is probably in his 80s.
Mike Rinder cannot speak to his 2 kids in the SO.
2 small examples of 1000s of ordered disconnections…..
Brilliant that respected Hollywood Opinion Leader Paul Haggis nailing the C of S as a LIAR was used. “What else are they lying about?”
The more they deny, the more obvious it is they’re hiding something. DM’s arrogance comes across vividly. For the average public to see DM in the same category as Dali Lama, John Paul II and other religious leaders must be quite a puzzle. It is for me, and I’m a Scientologist!
I thought maybe I could see the ex’s and Tommys nose start to grow.
It looked as if Attorney Yingling had a few Yuenglings prior to the interview. She should probably start pounding Yuenglings pretty heavily if she wants to justify covering up for the blatant lies that are evident for all to see.
Talk about a merchant of evil!! Check out the Creepy Shadow Lawyer!!
Great job Jeff, Amy and Christy!
This denial of disconnection is completely laughable! I can imagine all the family members out there across the planet who have lost loved ones into Scientology are outraged by these denials and I wouldn’t be surprised if Anderson Cooper’s in box doesn’t get filled with similar stories to those that were told.
My sister disconnected from my 80 year old mother last year because I had gone to one Anonymous protest to show my support for what they were protesting against – family disconnection! My sister disconnected from my brother 31 years ago when he left Scientology. He was only 16 years old at the time and has never heard from his older sister since. As far as he is concerned, he doesn’t have a sister!
I truly believe in brain washing and mind control now after seeing my former friends tell lie after lie and deny policies that they know exist on international TV.
Thank goodness shows like these are going on to expose the truth. Thank goodness for people like Marty, Jeff, Amy, Paul Haggis etc etc who are standing tall and speaking out.
The church representatives are so defensive . For monique to try to defend any of this truly shows her true colors. She will be telling DM she needs a raise. We all all entitled to speak out freely and anyone that goes against this little person gets attacked. That tells me the insecurity that exists among the members or managers is what rules. They allow DM to push them off of their own position. I just shake my head. You have all done a beautiful job. This is not over. As the ones who are still in leave they will speak out.
Carol
So let me get this straight…..
As a Scientologist in good standing with the CoM, I can pick up the phone, and talk to, or have lunch with, or meet with ANYONE who has an SP declare on them, and then walk back into ASHO or AOLA or ANY org and disclose this fact, and remain in good standing, because I have freedom of choice to do so?
Someone please help me understand this. Because for years I was told that if I contacted ANYONE who was under SP declare that I would INSTANTLY be assigned lower conditions, and if I persisted, I would be declared as well.
Tonight just confirmed that Mestsavage and his crew are a bunch of deceptive wordsmiths, plying their trade with the skills of the most skilled con artist.
Still shocked…
Centurion
I think this may have been the best segment yet, because there’s not a Scientologist who’s been around for any length of time who doesn’t know with 100% certainty that disconnection is the policy of the church. Therefore, any church member who sees this segment has to know with 100% certainty that the leaders of the church are liars.
It was terrific to see Christie. She’s so articulate and poised. Her explanation of how the church applies disconnection was nuanced and intelligent.
And Amy’s disconnection story was perfect too. All Scientologists knows that this is exactly what would occur. Every church member would know that Jeff’s ex-wife, Catherine, is the liar, not Jeff, who she attacked so vehemently. A heart of gold, huh? Well, not anymore.
Im glad to see that the husbands who are out are getting a chance to respond to their ex-wives who were interviewed last Monday.
Looking forward to tomorrow nights show.
Oh, and Jeff was great too. He always comes across as aritculate, intelligent, and honest!
For a little musical relief.
To the ex-wives, Tommy, and execs!
LIES
I’m speechless to see more blatant lying by “Church” officials. That is an excellent point, Marty:
>>DM’s personal lawyer has to explain “scripture” because Tommy can’t and DM won’t?<<
And the lawyer's response to the Disconnection Policy was lawyer-speak evasive, candy-coating and morphing the cold reality.
That was sure a lot of HE&R (human emotion and reaction) from Jeff's former wife, along with explosive name-calling generalities. Her ruds (rudiments, e.g. Upset, Problems, and things she's holding onto) are still out, and she's still in serious pain. She needs some auditing & ethics assistance. 😦
I know full well Tommy Davis lied about disconnection. watching him do it again is a sad day.
Oscar winning director Paul Haggis set it straight and, in his open letter, he gave justice to many who's voices have been squashed and silenced. Haggis spoke simple truth and I echo the question he wrote to Tommy Davis and The hijacked Church: if you can so easily lie about that, what else are you lying about?
Thank you everyone who is shining the light on the corruption, malpractice, nonpractice and abuse of Scientology.
Yes, the vulnerability of sensibility is a beautiful, precious thing. It returns to every soul with honesty, IMHO. I really got what it was like for him as a being — what so many have undergone, in terms of sensibility. The pain of the heart&soul is worse than that of any body part.
Hehehehe, oh yeah, baby!
Centurion,
Someone who’s on lines ought to try it. Then, when they’re hauled into ethics, they can say that some the top Int execs of the C of S, and the church’s lawyer, all said on national TV that there would be no repercusions and that it was the person’s own choice!
How very true, Veritas. Seeing a being as he or she really is is beauty itself. And so, Jeff on TV was beautiful, while his out-of-valence, yapping, nasty wife, was ugly.
Best segment yet!
Tommy takes yet another foot bullet for the cause and another great demo of 1.4-2.0 by the current Church management — this time from Catherine. At this rate, it won’t be much of a stretch for viewers to come to the conclusion that the current Church management are the ones doing the beatings.
Here’s a message that was sent out on Facebook after I publickly resigned from CoS in my Opt-out notice, just a few short weeks ago.
“Subject: Marta Willson
In case she did not send you a copy, Marta has left Scientology and publicly
announced the fact, along with natter as to why she has left. I have
removed her from my friends list and disconnected from her. I thought you
would want to know. I can send you a copy of her letter if you need to see
it.
ML,”
And I nattered, too, of all things. I am just too awful to associate with!
Marty and all the other dissenters on AC360 were just featured on the Colbert Report. They showed Marty in his Sea Org uniform and the rest talking about the violence they witness. Then they showed Starkey going off about Marty being an apostate and cast out of the church, etc. Colbert said that was as harsh as it gets, unless you’re a Republican. At which point he launched into how some GOP think tank operatives have been fired for criticizing party strategy.
At the end of that, Colbert said, “The question is, can the Republican Party be compared to a dangerous cult? No, and anyone who says so should be beaten by Dave Miscavage.”
Love the Colbert Report, so it was a nice surprise to see the lulz.
I think using Paul Haggis’ letter, and then Christie, were the real highlights of tonight’s show. They really brought home the point.
Anderson is respectful, and at the same time, masterful.
I loved too that he pointed out, on more than one occasion, that those who are blowing the whistle do not want to destroy the Church — they just want a change in leadership.
So true.
Veritas,
It’s only sad, I think, when one still holds any hope for reform from within. I just don’t see it happening. That ship is not going to turn, it’s too late for her – I’m afraid this Titanic is fatally torn from stem to stern and only a full-on salvage effort, after she sinks, will reap anything worth saving.
So, “technically” there just is no such policy of disconnection. Therefore your hands are clean? Regardless of what is practiced, day in and day out, from the top of the organization to the bottom, world-wide. JeeeeZUS, the arrogance! A full 360 degrees from Integrity. O.k. I’m laughing again. This has got to be a cartoon – a freaky one! Bite me, Tommy.
The inability of these guys to distinguish between “leaving Scientology” and “leaving the Church” and the inablity to distinguish between “natter” and “pointing out outpoints” never ceases to amaze me! A=A=A. Like common sense, the ability to differentiate appears to be a scarcity as well.
Get your TRO in and clear your MUs people!
OMG! Fantastic!
Marta could you give the name of the sender on facebook?
Tone 41,
Good idea..however I have a better idea…
Marty…do this….call Anderson Cooper and arrange for you and all those who appeared on the CNN story, to appear on camera with your ex spouses and invite them to visit with you, re-establish your com lines and have it documented on camera….kind of like a reality show.
Now, if this is done, then ALL will see it, and people in the C of Mestsavagery could at once re-stablish all the com lines they were forced to forego. And, since Tommy said there were no forced disconnections, then all should be right as rain with the Church and DM would in effect have a PR win, yes? I mean, Tommy said it was an individual choice, yes?
If your ex spouses decline en mass, then it would look like THEY are being forced to maintain a disconnection, while you are offering to simply communicate.
It’s just a simple matter of a publicly documented display of what the truth really is.
Centurion (agitator I/C)
“PR – Effective Cause, Well Demonstrated” – LRH
It was obvious WHO was AT CAUSE in that segment, and it wasn’t the imposters.
Christie, you were beautiful… Jeff, you were too. And Amy, it is always a joy to hear you. (For more Amy see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4rQsOkOuD4) It is now on the record, this travesty of a group that perverted Scientology, for the whole world to see.
I had the opportunity to speak with several “onlines Scientologists” the other day.
They were not up to Confronting Evil.
One day they will thank us.
Today I thank you all.
And I’m usually not the one who would ever advise sending stuff to a newsroom, but in this case I almost would wonder if it would make a great point for everyone who has received a letter or email of disconnection (particularly from a family member) to forward those to AC360’s producers ASAP. I would imagine they would stack up quite quickly. Probably higher than that stack of affidavits the church provided.
Oh, and kudos to Anderson for having the ex-husbands back on to counter their wives’ accusations. It kinda bothered me that the church had the opportunity to make a last-minute info push without a similar thing happening for the other side. This is a very fair thing to do. I also hope they put all this together to add to their lineup of weekend documentaries. This certainly is getting enough attention to do something like that.
I just saw the Anderson Cooper series mentioned on the Colbert Report. Bit’s of Jeff, Amy and Tom’s interviews were used. While we know that the subject of our friends having been abused is not comedy, this was essentially a lampooning of dm. He was held up to ridicule, and the impression it left one with was that dm is a crazy little guy who does indeed beat people. It was short and sharp.
I hope one of you OSA guys monitering this site tells dm, and I hope you tell him also about Colbert’s ratings and his position as an OL. AND that many many people who may not have previously heard of the CNN series will now look for it on line, and have now heard the allegations without benefit of td’s whining rebuttals and lies.
Dm has officially become a caricature in pop culture. So much for being “the pope of scientology.”
how come I cant find the internett version on this last one ? not up yet ?
the only bad side effect of what I saw so far is that non scientologiests – as well as scientologiests -might get the impresion that scn does not work when they look at our “leaders” beeing so serious,,solid, confused, contraticting, and not well focused (out TR’s) -never mind the getting cought in lies such as DM rejecting to be on the show, via TD and yet using the same “you lie ” acusation they use to defent so badly, by writing to the station to stopp saying so.
So, – non scientologiests – what you see here is people who have given up personal integrety long time ago -and thus NOTHING will work on them !!
they should know that – of course -but I guess when one crosses over to the dark side one can not think for himself anymore.
ON this note I would like to sugesst to allof us to make sure that we work hard on keeping our personell integrety (what is true for us is true for us)
one of the best ways I know how to do this is getting training and audiding.
for us in the freezon this has just become easer, faster and most likely better than ever.
besides of being happy that DM gets his butt kicked ,lets not forget the most important thing – moving up the bridge on both sides.
Just had myself a great L12 session doday !!
Love Helmut
This show was a homerun IMO.
Christie is SO DAMN GOOD!! She explained the CofM’s 1.1 lying bullshit effortlessly.
Jeff was great too and using the screenwriters resignation as a tag was brilliant!!
The so called “scientologists”, “sea org members” and “lawyers” were repulsive. The “lawyer” looked drunk.
I am so glad I am no longer part of this out-ethics organization. I am proud to be part of this group that is working at reforming this…what I can now only call a cult.
SHAME ON YOU DM AND ALL YOUR ROBOTS!!
God bless the Independants!!
Viva la Revolucionne!! 🙂
Alex
Wow! I can’t believe the lies about disconnection. Geez so I guess it is just a coincidence that my best friend of 20 years disconnected from me after multiple visits from two Sea Org MAAs, who let him know staying in communication with me would affect his being able to be in communication with his two kids in the S.O.
Below is just ONE of the messages sent out on facebook after my husband and I made the decision to leave the C of M. This person went as far as to tell people they should also delete my parents as friends. My parents who I guess are guilty of being the parents of someone who left the church.
From: Facebook
Subject: Megan Parfitt sent you a message on Facebook…
To:xxxxxxx
Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 3:06 PM
Megan sent you a message.
——————–
Subject: Important
Hi,
There is an HCO order posted in the Twin Cities org regarding Natalie and Brad Hagemo. They are declared PTS Type C. Please remove them from your facebook friends asap. Their family members should also be removed: Corey Wilcox and Donna-Gail Wilcox.
You can do this by going to “friends” and hit x for delete.
Please go into the org and see Karen Wesling if you have any questions, data to report and to view the order.
Thanks, Megan
(For those of you out of state, you can reach Karen by calling 612-338-5111)
Great, Agitator I/C. You’re right, that’s even better!
Maybe we could get some of MestSavage’s family on CNN too, like his neice, brother and sister-in-law, and ask how good their own comm lines are these days with the man himself.
It took me years to admit it to myself, Marta, but I’m afraid I completely agree.
Wow, beautiful!! When and where can we see this? I have no idea what channel Colbert is on, and when.
Margaret,
I agree about the highlights, and about Anderson. I continue to be amazed at how sane he is. 🙂
Great idea, Redneck Thetan. Copies of all the letters of disconnection that have been received worldwide should be collected somewhere, then sent to CNN or any news orgainization who dares to start an investigation.
W & P. Love you man.
Ture, Helmut. But, then again, the audience has the independents and their good comm cycles to compare to DM. Anderson mentioned that Christie is still a Scientologist, and she’s nothing but attractive in every way.
It’t true that the C of MestSavage crew made a terrible impression. But fortunately Anderson did make the point that the Indies are not trying to destroy the church, but just to remove the leaders. Hopefully people will realize that the leaders are running amuk and are not representing Scn.
And hey, I’d love to hear about your wins on L12!
“Viva la Revolucionne!!”
Indeed– I second that! 🙂
Unbelievable! Talk about blatant, look-you-in-the-eyes liars.
But this segment was incredible. With the Haggis quote, there was no doubt left for the public as to who was telling the truth.
And for a typical sample of their prevarication, here’s a quote from David Gaiman’s SP delcare, “Any Scientologist found to be maintaining a line with, offering support to, or in any way granting credence to David Gaiman and his
actions or motives is also subject to declare and denial of further service.’
Natalie,
You shouild send this to Anderson at CNN as evidence of the lies about disconnection!
Don’t have CNN on my basic cable. Can anyone post a link to part 4? Searched everywhere.
Thank you in advance.
I feel like the day I watched the movie Battlefield Earth. By the time I was 10 minutes into the movie I felt betrayed I was ready to kill. I knew the horror I was watching was a betrayal by someone in the church. I was never so goddamed embarrased in my life. I knew DM was behind that hideous screenplay. I just knew it.
Now I am watching the same baffoonery on national television and I am just as embarrassed. The absolute lies that are so transparent people who don’t even speak English can spot them lying and are laughing at them.
DM is so stupid he is ruining everything. Can someone please put a stop to this insanity? Scientologists, leaders of the Church, people I used to respect, flat out lying. Alter-ising. It is just a shame.
Did anyone else notice that on tonight’s installment, CNN changed the name from “Scientology: A History of Violence” (which had been used all week) to “Scientology: A 360 Investigation”?
The latter seems softer.
I wonder if this was done to appease legal threats or complaints from the CoM…
http://img89.imageshack.us/i/jennym.jpg/
Why is Jenny sitting in a TR 0 position? Is it because she has been drilling this interview for days/weeks and has braced herself for toeing the precisely laid out Miscavige line, including total denial of any of the facts presented by Anderson?
Save that email. Just sayin’
I think we should use e-meters and ask the same questions of both sides. Have you told me any untruths? The camera could be focused on the meter dial to see if there is an instant read. We could even use it later as a training video.
Enforced disconnection, which is David Miscavige’s policy, is the most excruciating, piercing, overwhelming, life numbing, breaking pain I have experienced. I have spent almost 20 years dealing with its aftermath. Until tonight where I witnessed this callous, disassociated, disgusting smarmy denial of the most blatant destruction of life by David Miscavige defended by T Davis, I didn’t realize just how raw the emotion still is on this topic for me.
I will not devolve to the repugnant level beings who know better have reached. I will not hate. I will awake tomorrow and I will work more to rise above this.
Tonight…you motherfuckers. You lying motherfuckers. Goddamn this lying bullshit. You lying motherfuckers.
It’s interesting to note that life insurance actuaries rate the life expectancy of attorneys quite low. Take a look at Yingling’s sunken eyes, solid and tired expression to tell you how long she will live. Is it really worth all that money? How long can you lie for your clients before it taking a life toll on you?
Just thought of something. Mikes wife said she knew every inch of his body (thanks for the visual) and never saw any damage on his body, etc. But what about in the freedom mag where she described the physical damage Marty had done to Mike. Aha! She forgot to make an allowance for that little exception in her rush to her bold sweeping generality. OOPS. Must be hard to keep track of all the untruths. “Anderson, you’ll have to be more specific. Which int exec were you referring to kicking the crap out of whom? There were so many…”
Christie knocked it out of the park! In just a few sentences she managed to say SO MUCH about disconnection and calling out Tommy on twisting the truth. I am becoming a real fan of sane communication! I’ve been in the church for twenty years and so I simply haven’t been exposed to any for quite some time now.
And speaking of Tommy, my 71 year-old mom, a non-scientologist, watched the show and said that he is “slimy”! Moms are cool. If you are still allowed to talk to them, that is. 🙂
Marty and all,
You may edit my post. I apologize to all for my outburst. Forgive these men and women, they are ignorant, they do not know. I will do all I can to help them to know and postulate they will and we can all rise above the abject suppression David Miscavige and his kind have wrought.
This is what Scientology means and has meant to me, as a being and as an auditor. It’s nonnegotiable.
For anyone sitting on the fence out there:
Do you think that the CofM’s lying is out-ethics??
I sure do!!
I would NEVER let anyone fron the CofM do an ethics “handling” on me!!
My ethics are WAY BETTER than these lying turds posing as ethical sea org members.
Isn’t is a crime to impersonate a Sea Org member??
Alex
You guys have been so amazing in this series. Thank you!
I’ll Stand By You (by Chrissie Hynde, Tom Kelly)
Oh, why you look so sad? Tears are in your eyes
Come on and come to me now.
Don’t be ashamed to cry, let me see you through
Cause I’ve seen the dark side too.
When the night falls on you, you don’t know what to do,
Nothing you confess could make me love you less.
I’ll stand by you, I’ll stand by you, won’t let nobody hurt you,
I’ll stand by you.
So, if you’re mad get mad, don’t hold it all inside,
Come on and talk to me now.
And hey, what you got to hide? I get angry too
But I’m alot like you.
When you’re standing at the crossroads, don’t know which path to choose,
Let me come along, cause even if your wrong
I’ll stand by you, I’ll stand by you, won’t let nobody hurt you,
I’ll stand by you.
Take me into your darkest hour, and I’ll never desert you.
I’ll stand by you.
And when, when the night falls on you baby, you’re feeling all alone,
You won’t be on your own, I’ll stand by you.
I’ll stand by you
I’ll stand by you, won’t let nobody hurt you.
I’ll stand by you
Take me in into your darkest hour and I’ll never desert you
I’ll stand by you.
Hooray you’re getting auditing, Helmut.
Yes, I agree with you that the people on Anderson Cooper who are supposedly the best of Scientology are not good examples. In my opinion, they are not examples at all — they are under heavy suppression and many have been dedicated to working as staff a long time, while being themselves denied the benefit of receiving auditing!
However, there’s hope even for people who have given up personal integrity — when they recognize need for change, something can be done about it. Without the recognition though….well, they’re in the fog and don’t hear the flight tower. 😦
The brilliant thing about this show and the conversation Marty and others have opened with the world is IMHO this distinction:
Those people are not Scientology.
Tom Cruise is not Scientology.
The glossy uber expensive printers drumming up money for the IAS is not Scientology.
What you’re doing, getting auditing, that’s Scientology;-) Let’s hear it for Delivery!!
Marta,
I get it. I am checking each day in anticipation of having the same thing happen in response to my Doubt Formula. Those I really care about I am sending personal individual comms to. I truly have reached the point where it doesn’t matter to me if someone cuts comm or not. I will love it if they do not, but I understand only too well if they do. One great comm I got said, “until I see a golden rod, we’re good”, then he set up a hushmail acct so we can stay in touch no matter what. He has 2 sisters on staff, so it’s tricky. Oh, I forgot, Tommy says that doesn’t matter! I’ll be sure to let my friends knows that…LOL!
Only a very short time ago, I would have cut comm. I wrote my formula for me, but also for the 3rd Dyn, it is gratifying to receive some of the comms that have come in response. A few have been quite a surprise to me. I don’t mean on here or the other Indie sites, I mean FB and my personal email lines.
My older brother (non-Scn) was a shocker. He said I wish you and your friends good luck, if he’s that bad you should do something about it then everyone will be better off. It seems to me that pure Scientology is something that anyone of the 80% could approve of and they know the difference. We see that with the non-Scn posters who have come on here to validate Marty. Most of them would want us to clean things up and get on with it, IMO.
Ceileen
Helmut,
See my reply to Marta earlier in the thread.
Ceileen
Too bad I am not on post anymore. I would love to take that one on as a gross misappliation of ethics policy–whoooyaaa!!!
Virgil, please get the cram I will write done on that Megan and Karen person. Thank you.
Ceileen
Documents of forced disconnection by the Church (separation orders, ethics orders, sp declares) should be presented to Anderson proving disconnection.
Now, though the subject of this series is History of Violence it is not Insignificant to stress the Violence of the Church in having twisted the Tech.
I don’t know if this is possible to be stressed now, probably everything has been filmed. But for future reference, it’s one thing to be violent sometimes, ok LRH was throwing people off the ship, and it’s another thing to be a suppressive, DM has destroyed the Tech and declared suppressives the only people who could stand against his High Crimes.
Scientologist tend to put up almost with everything except one thing: the usurpation of the Tech. All allegations to violence must include the fact that DM has made it impossible for the people to apply Standard Tech and this can be proven by hundreds of High Crimes. This is the Violence of DM, this is what no Scientologist would condone. Everything else looks like an attack on the church by Scientologists, except for this one thing. The attack on Scientology has been perpetrated by its Int Mgmt under DM and that’s a fact that people cannot see, though they have the feeling…. but they don’t trust their judgment.
That we come out on CNN and this is not so stressed as the most important Violence this man has subjected everybody to, is a weak point in this series.
So, what should come across is that this is not another attack on the Church, this is an organized Independent Movement, not just ex-Int Officers complaining about DM, it’s a whole field out here who are Scientologists and who for the first time unite to open the eyes of other Scientologists. We are not enemies, we are friends of Scientology. We don’t attack DM as a leader of Scientology, we attack DM as for what he has done against not people or the law, but against Our Written Policy.
However, the point made on this 4th part that the Independent do not want to destroy the church but change its leadership is a very good point and it came across very loudly and clearly.
Christie cleared up the twisted version of “disconnetion” by Tommy very well. Her explanation proved that Tommy was definitely lying. Thank you Christie.
I love the fact that all the ex-execs stay so calm and honest.
Marty, did you or any of our guys shown the actual “disconnection” policy to Anderson?
I believe it would help if he had the policy in front of him to show to Tommy that such a policy exists and C of M is twisting it and using it to attack anyone who speaks against DM.
Another great exposure tonight. Thank you guys for being there and communicating the truth!
Like Paul Haggis astutely pointed out, if Tommy Davis is willing to so blatanly lie about disconnection, what else would he lie about? MISCAVIGE BEATING HIS STAFF!!! Shame on you Tommy Boy, you made a deal with the devil a long time ago. You can lie all you want, but you’ll never be as good of an actress as your mother was. Can we hear that fake laughter again?
All one has to do to discredit the C of M is to prove that disconnection exists in order to prove that DM beats his staff. Remember, it is possible to convict someone of murder in the United States without a corpse. So it should be possible to convict DM of felony assualts without PT evidence of cuts and bruises.
Catherine’s response tonight was so obviously forced, harsh robotic and caustic. She even cut Anderson off before he finished asking the question in order to call Jeff a liar. It seems like she was rehearsed by DM to call Jeff a liar no matter what the question was, so that we wouldn’t believe Jeff’s other allegations about Miscavige’s beatings. Too bad this whole strategy by DM is an EPIC FAIL, as it is quite easy for any fairly intelligent person to see which side is telling the truth.
You said it veritas. One of Joe Howard’s favorite sayings based on LRH is that a dramatization never flows less, it only flows harder. Cathy demonstrated that as well in her totally out PR wolf-like response — which they are so backwards, you know she was coached by DM personally to respond like that. He thinks that is going to establish ethics presence — the ass.
Remember the GAT drills? There he tried to get everyone to not just flunk someone, but you were literally supposed to take their head off with a forceful FLUNK! Thus the out tech GAT drills actually throw out proper TRs. Everything he does runs the ARC triangle in reverse. And no matter what happens, he will just keep trying to prove he is right by doing it more, and more, and harder, and harder.
Gosh, that’s exactly right. She might as well as waved red flags “We did it. Even our communication is ultra violent.”
I would expect many more Scientologists to join our ranks in the next few months.
I have not seen this part yet but hopefully this will initiate questions on Scientologists, by own experience I can say that it’s very hard to realize the TRUTH but I’m pretty sure this shows helps a lot.
I am just watching the video. Christie is a very clever girl. She is marvellous.
About the allegations, be factual, I do not know what and why happened in the Church – although I have my viewponts on it, and my own experiences inside the SO what can happen and what can’t.
What is obvious that these Church members are telling outright lies about disconnection now on international scale. Unfortunatelly, this is not a totally losing strategy on their side. And I am not shure if Scientologists dare to look at a program on CNN which is an investigation of Scientology.
For non-Scientologists I would have pulled out the Ethics book to quote the words of LRH. And the only thing which makes me really sad about the whole thing is that despite the fact that I was for decades in Scientology, I know and I knew way back when I’ve read the first administrative writings of LRH that going suppressive from inside are almost statutory to happen in the system he devised.
You guys all have a lot of good stuff to say but can I suggest that some of you make comments on CNN’s blog too? I’ve just made one and I think it’d be helpful to put some of this ‘wisdom of experience’ out there for the general public to see/understand about the whole ‘Scientology experience’. Cheers!
All you so high trained OT48 here simply don`t get it! It is a technical matter! Auditing didn`t work well if the PC is in contact with a fanatic antagonistic Person. The PC must get protected! It can`t be allowed to AUDIT someone which is in close contact to a suppressive Person, or even be in the Church, I don`t know. But this PC isn`t FORCED to break the contact to an SP. He can stay in Contact. But not do any Scientology at the same time, because that would do no good to the Person, and the case! The PC has to decide himself, and a Scientologist, who is interested in continuing to be in good standing with his church, in some case, might prefer to disconnect. I would do that without any second thought. And that is NOT a forced disconnection!
If something looks like sh*t, smells like sh*t and feels like sh*t – well, maybe it IS sh*t???
That’s philosophical question. 🙂
If you put instead of “something” – “DM”,” CoM” or his “reps”, you understand what I mean.
And – wth these broadcasts of CNN – that sh*t hit the fan.
Public and people in general can smell, feel and see how “it” looks…
It’s not anymore “if there is a smoke, there is a fire somewhere”. It’s some real “sh*t”
Viva Independents!
OMG! My husband and I are screaming with laughter about the Colbert Report reference. That’s fantastic!
“Beaten by Dave Miscavige” has become a cultural meme! How fitting.
Just Me
Re: Disconnection
You don’t need to be deeply involved in scientology to know about it well.
It’s ACTUAL APPLICATION of what is contained in the “Basic book of Scientology” – “Introduction to Scn Ethics”. Some additional data is in PTS/SP course (which is by far not “advanced course”).
It’s in a CORE of scientology itself as it has been.
SO silly to deny it on part of anyone from the church.
Simple test: take some “wog”, get him to read Ethics book on PTS/SP, then ask “How can you apply it?” – You’ll be surprised!
P.S.
Before I wasn’t giving money to beggars – thinking (from Scientologist’s view) they are downstats and I shouldn’t (it’s also in Ethics book) because I would reward low toned, down statistics people, and it would be for the worst – of them, and me. It was well justified – 1. “LRH said it. 2. I had more money left.
Now I started giving some money to beggars (old poor and needing ladies – they are many in Moscow standing with stretched hand).
And you know what? – It REALLY makes me feel better! I help! I don’t pass people in need.
And it feels SO much better that “following LRH policy” on ethics. It’s like “win from auditing” for me after I do it (and even better because I feel it’s not just MY realization and win but because that person can buy some bread and eat some soup).
Food for thought about Ethics.
As someone who understands well the challenges of legal spokespersons, I judge Monique Yingling’s CNN performance to be a dismal failure.
Her presence, posture, facial expression, and general attitude communicate someone who doesn’t care, isn’t invested in her client’s success, and is mouthing a message only because money has exchanged hands.
Although coaching can improve the performances of most lawyers who must represent their clients’ causes on-screen, Ms. Yingling doesn’t seem to have much aptitude for this role. She comes across as neither authentic nor likeable.
DM is not getting his money’s worth.
Just Me
Have to expand a bit on Ethics.
For me it had been catchy phrases throughout “Ethics book” – as now I see it – that “No man, sage or human has EVER understood what ethics, justice and morals is. It IS THE BREAKTHROUGH!” Having read “Ethics book” and gotten checked out on it, I got myself believing that I was in avant-guarde of manknd, elite, chosen one among the chosen ones who “throughout endless trillions of years” FINALLY understood what actually ethics is. And NOW we CAN kick some serious ass! (Meaning that everyone else failed miserably).
Now you, guys, please tell me – was it that nobody had ever understood what ethics was – before Hubbard????
Stolen from someone on EXMB:
“Ethics cannot be based upon our obligations toward [people], but they are complete and natural only when we feel this Reverence for Life and the desire to have compassion for and to help all creatures insofar as it is in our power. I think that this ethic will become more and more recognized because of its great naturalness and because it is the foundation of a true humanism toward which we must strive if our culture is to become truly ethical. – Albert Schweitzer”
And now we see these elite corps individuals in the show lying. Didn’t ethics have to do with being honest??? Or may be they are truthful, and it’s just we can help but lie, lie and lie?
They DO understand the subject of ethics!
Anderson Cooper doesn’t. 🙂
Do we have questions about Cooper’s ethics?
Or we have questions about ethics of “most ethical beings on the planet” (which is SO)?
Vadim Dolgov
Why does the church behave as if on trial?
My best friend is a laywer and made this interesting and intelligent comment: If the management of the church is innocent, why do they behave as if they are on trial? Miscavige sends in his spokesman together with a laywer, dozens of affidavits and even character witnesses! (the four bitter ex-wifes)
So, what kind of response would one expect from an INNOCENT religious leader beeing accused of similar acts?
I picture a calm and concerned arch bishop or some other dignitary, saying something like: “This allegations are too farfetched to even comment on. We are a church and deal with spiritual matters, and not a boxing club. We care for our people, and I invite mrs Scobee and mr Rathburn, Hawkins, Hall and deVocht to consider to meet with me, and I assure you that I will do all I can to help them with whatever is burden their minds.”
The present behaviour of this high ranking scn officers is a disgrace and undoubtly sends a clear message to the world: Guilty as charged!
Tintin
HH Dalai Lama has 337,163 FB fans and he (someone for him, of course) posts a quote nearly everyday.
The one for today seemed particularly poignant, based on the current circumstances with the debacle of scn because of dm:
“Every noble work is bound to face problems and obstacles.
It is important to check your goal and motivation thoroughly.
One should be very truthful, honest, and reasonable.
One’s actions should be good for others, and for oneself as well.
Once a positive goal is chosen, you should decide to pursue it all the way to the end.
Even if it is not realized, at least there will be no regret.”
dm has created taken a “noble work” and turned it into a cult.
At least those of us on this blog and others like it, Marty, Jeff, Amy, Christie and the myriad of others — will have no regrets!!
WH
I agree.
I have it up on my youtube channel:
Another home run and great interviews with Jeff, Amy and Christie! I look forward to tonight to hear Marty, Jeff and Tom rebuttal to the wives. I do realize the wives are only trying to survive the wrath of DM but the vicious name calling from them is pretty bad.
Jan
Snowite,
Don’t FORCE yourself staying connected with this side and all of us. We are definitely not in good standing with your church. You can’t allowed to be AUDITED and will absolutely have no case gain.
You can just leave, without any second though.
Hug.
Here is a link to the Colbert segment:
http://rutube.ru/tracks/3099006.html?mail=track_converted&v=79c8b956827ec9d8a838c4f2b4c8c741
I think we just 5400x’d OSA’s downstats. 😉
Jim, I hear you, buddy. It is a new day today and we are now calmly working at making a better world.
I am still in “shock and awe”!!!! I cannot get over how they (the so-called representatives of Scientology), can LIE like that about DISCONNECTION. As we say in Texas, “they are lower than a snake’s belly in a wagon rut!”
Whatever last shred of respect I had for the organized “church”, it is now gone. They have shown themselves for the CORRUPT people they are, for all the world to see. If everyone who had experienced disconnection sent in an affidavit with a sworn statement of their experiences, it would probably be a stack ten feet high! Wouldn’t that be something for Anderson Cooper to show on world-wide TV!!
Here is one of my son’s disconnection letters:
5/9/05
Dear Mom,
I heard you want to talk to me. I sent you an email that said I had disconnected you. I don’t know if you got this or not but I wanted to let you that I am hereby disconnecting from you. This does not in any way mean I don’t love you or miss you, I just need to do my bridge. When you are not declared by the church of Sciontology a Suppessive person, feel free to call me. But please don’t call me or my dad. I got your package and the cell phone, but am sending them back. I hope you make it a game to to get it handled so we can talk again, because I want to, but until then I can’t.
Love Your Son,
His signature
P.S. calling my school will not make a path out of your situation.
Note:
The capitalizations and mis-spelling of the word “Scientology” are as they appeared in his hand-written letter. I have attempted to maintain the quality and tone of the original letter.
So there is no disconnection policy, huh?
Wow, you could fool me.
The above letter was sent on 10 August, 2005. I received it by FEDEX on 11 August, 2005. My son was 14 at the time, going to Delphi, only because I wanted him to have the best education on the planet, and had allowed him to be with his father so that he could go to school there. A year ago, he told me he had written that letter not on his own determinism, but was pressured into sending it. He told me this over the phone and apologized, and we both cried. Recently he has disconnected from me again, in a disconnection letter dated November 31, 2009 and referred to this disconnection in an e-mail dated February 12, 2010. “I disconnected from you. That is still the case”. Now if you look on a calendar, that is 48 days ago. So, there is no disconnection policy, huh?
How about a class-action lawsuit for all the parental rights that have been violated in 50 states, for all the disconnections that have occurred, with that 10 foot high stack of affidavits of parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, that have been cut off from loved ones? How about that Monique? Of course, you would love it, because how much money could you charge DM at $600 an hour
defending a lawsuit like that? You could retire and go to the south of France, or Brazil!! You could join the remaining Nazi’s that separated parents from their children during the Holocaust. Guess what? Scientologists have their own HOLOCAUST, CALLED DISCONNECTION. Would you like to know how many hours I have cried, and how many pillows have been soaked that took days to dry out, over your “There is no disconnection policy?” Well, you are soon going to find out. And Tommy Davis, too. The world is going to know how you have lied. Oh, and DM, why don’t you take all that money you have socked away in those bank accounts in Lichtenstein, and do us all a favor and just go away, and live your jet-set life, and let REAL SCIENTOLOGISTS practice their religion without your enforced perversions of the technology. You give Scientology a bad name with your lies and corruption, and the corruption of all those hard-working Sea Org members who get on international TV and lie for you. By the way, every one of them, except Jeff Hawkins ex-wife, looks PRISON CAMP EMACIATED, on thier diet of rice and beans and slop, while you have your 5-star chefs cook your meals. You might want to think about it, when you treat them like that, IT SHOWS. But SP’s can’t think that far ahead. You just starve them and sleep deprive them for your evil, sadistic purposes, never thinking about: some day when they are on international TV, they are going to look like HOLOCAUST victims.
My overt is that I didn’t do something about you in 1981 when you bragged about busting Mary Sue Hubbard at the Mission Holder’s Conference at Flag. All I did was sign a petition putting the Sea Org in Confusion. But it’s on, NOW.
ONE MAD MOTHER!!
P.S. Look for my website, MOMS AGAINST DISCONNECTION (AND WE’RE MAD ABOUT IT , TOO) where we WILL collect that 10 foot high stack of declarations of disconnection.
Oh, and by the way, we don’t just get mad, we get even!
See the Colbert Report Here:
CoS bit starts at 4:25 in
http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/thu-april-1-2010-judith-shulevitz
I have written an extensive article on the subject of disconnection posted on Scn-cult entitled ‘3D Engram’.
It details the history of the subject and the final issues including a blatant fraud perpetrated in a bulletin of 16 April 82 More On PTS Handling. This issue was rewritten and altered under David Miscavige as covered in the article.
This one thing that this SP has brought to bear on well-intentioned beings, this forced disconnection, documented, published in writing and carried out relentlessly and now denied by his ‘spokesman’ is perhaps THE destructive act that will finally come home to him to roost.
He has cut too many theta lines with this. The power in them is too much. They are raw and flaming and will burn him to a crisp.
I grew up as a mormon, and got onto scn at the SLC org. I have had the opportunity to see both religions, study their beliefs, and to be a part of both communities. I believe that TD brought up in an article or some interview that Mormons believe in excommunication. There are parallels for how you get excommunicated however what happens afterward with family and friend connections is very different.
In the Mormon church you can get excommunicated for doing really bad things that are not following the faith if you are an active member (they don’t do much with someone who hasn’t been to church in years,etc.). For example if you are actively involved in the day to day faith and you go out and commit adultery. They will first request that you come in to discuss what is going on and will give you a program to follow to get back on the straight path. If after sometime you aren’t doing your program or continue to commit adultery then they will excommunicate you. They take this very serious, and don’t want to excommunicate you unless their is no ethics change. However when you do get excommunicated there is no letter sent around your church, your family is not notified by the church leaders themselves, nothing is broadcast. This is just as much as embarrassment for them as it is for you. They simply wish you luck, and encourage you to change your ways and tell you they will always be there for you. I have known a few family members and friends who have been excommunicated while I was a practicing mormon. Sure it makes for a juicy conversation around the dinner table, but at the end of the day we don’t stop talking to them, we continue to love them just as much as we did before. Yes we feel hurt because they have strayed off the moral path, but family is family. You don’t knock them down even further and kick them to the curb. I remember my mother when I was probably about 8, we had a cousin who started going to the baptist church and stepping out on her husband – you would have thought the world was falling apart. She got excommunicated, and big scandal in the family. However I remember she was always invited to family functions, was still very visible in the family. Yes the family spoke to her about their disagreements and encourage that she get it together but they didn’t stop communicating to her. What eventually happened is she did clean up her act and then came back into the Mormon church. I wonder today if the family “disconnected” from her would she have ever gotten back into the Mormon church.
Several LRH points that come to mind.
1. TWTH (the very essence of what it stands is violated with disconnection)
2. PR series ( you are actually creating an enemy line which creates even more problems)
3. Affinity, Reality and Communication
It just does not make sense to the world at large, how families would not talk to each other and ban each other’s communication. (PR outpoint). The world would understand if your son was a molestor and was physically harming other people and wouldn’t stop. But a bond between family members is something that is hard to mess with.
Christian,
No. That is out-tech. The meter is not a lie detector. Let’s keep on the high road and not drop down to DM’s level please.
Veritas, WOW! Goose Bumps!
Jim,
No worries. I’d much rather be forced to “confront” a bad word now and then than have to watch these robots. That is what is truly scarey, not a very understandable upset resulting from an obviously unhumane practice.
Keep on truckin. You are actually an inspiration.
Jim,
apologize as long as you want.
I thank you for that outburst, – does it since give an inkling what disconnection MEANS at the receiving end of that callous inhumanity. And does it since give an inkling what is behind a gig such as performed by Jeff’s wife.
Best, Fidelio
Lady Minn,
I am sorry. Truly. Motherhood is a sacred thing.
What happened to you is completely uncalled for.
I bet if we were to just do a little investigation, he has made very little “progress” on “his Bridge”.
There is already a web site out there called
http://religiousshunning.org/Pages/Main.html
But I like MomsAgainstDisconection too.
I kept telling the OSA dudes that the last thing you want to do karmically is piss off a Mom.
They just don’t learn.
Big hug from me too, Jim. I understand.
Just Me
No, Jim, it’s OK. You get to vent a little.
The lying motherfuckers angered even those of us without the gaping wounds you have. What it is like for those of you guys whose lives were torn apart by it, we can only guess.
While watching them lie last night, my daughter had to pause the show to vent about the pain disconnection had caused a friend, separated from her own father at a young age and never reconnected.
The absolute souless-ness of the” lmf’s” is hard to fathom. They have become true minions, unthinking, unfeeling, no glimmer of integrity or self.
I believe that this one threat, disconnection from one’s loved ones, friends and community, is the worst threat in the hearts of most scientologists. The treat of loss of one’s eternity is more abstract, but the pain of having every one of your loved ones essentially “die” at the same time, is vitually unconfrontable. Without this card to play, dm would soon have no church. What heartlessness. But perhaps this doctrine is his Achilles heel.
Morning Jim —
It takes a LONG time, I’ve found and LOTS of work to work through the rage of betrayal.
You are doing the right thing — confront, reach, withdraw, start again each morning fresh with the wish to do all you can, get angry, take a rest start again.
THIS blog — and all the 3d engram running is helping more that I could have EVER EVER imagined.
Next time I’m in Halifax we’ll have lunch 🙂 — I was there in November but was too new on this board and couldn’t find a phone number for you — the closest I got to “finding you” was the recent album you produced and contributed music to. Terrific!!
Love,
WH
I think folks should start wearing T-shirts that say, “I was beaten by David Miscavige.”
Quite the culturally diverse crowd here. Yuengling. I briefly met a member of the Pennsylvania farming and brewing family.
Gawd, Lady Minn!
My heart goes out to you. What an analogy – holocaust/disconnection – very worth considering!!
And what an appropriate action you embarked upon! I wish it and you the utmost ultimate success.
ML, Fidelio
Snowwhite,
You’d better learn to differentiate and stop being stuck in the A=A=A mindset of the current CoS.
Marty, Jeff, Christie, Amy, Steve, Tom and the others who spoke on the program against David Miscavige aren’t suppressive persons and don’t need to be disconnected from. Why?
Because they aren’t attacking Scientology, they aren’t trying to stop anyone from getting auditing, they aren’t strying to stop anyone from getting training. They want everyone to get spiritual betterment.
Who they are speaking out about is Miscaviges abuse (both physical and verbal). Miscavige likes to humiliate. I know. I worked on the Int Base for 5 years.
Snowwhite, you should stick to talking about what you yourself have personal experience about, instead of repeating the party line that Miscavige want you to repeat.
Marty, I can’t thank you enough for letting Snow White’s posts in here every once and a while. Her stuff is so good on so many levels. From her going toe to toe with grammar, syntax and punctuation and giving all three a run for their money to the Linsonesque screediness, this woman is a real beauty. What I wouldn’t give to see HER on AC 360 sitting in for Tommy One-Note.
I read one of her posts and almost like an instant read I hear Marlon Brando as Colonel Kurtz: “The horror! The horror!”
I’m reluctant at this point to give the senders name. It may be fairly easy for them to figure out which friend sent it to me (remember, I wasn’t well connected – until joining this great bunch of Indies) and I wouldn’t want to compromise my true friend’s associations – which s/he is keeping in place intentionally. Will get back to you on it at some point, or will post it elsewhere (maybe AC360 blog or in email) when my friend is cool with that.
Theo I agree and it should be phrased in such a way that it’s clear that LRH formed a militant organization not unlike any military and some light physical force has been used even by LRH and “IMO rightly so” or something like that. Cat’s already out of the bag, it doesn’t matter just do it. LRH isn’t going under the bus that way. I think there’s some attention on not doing that to defend LRH but I wouldn’t worry about it. Just phrase it in a way that’s basically acceptable and drill hard questions along that line with bullbait. It’s a barrier that’s gotta be overcome if we’re to really reach, and this is what Miscavige fears more than anything is talking TO HIS BASE.
Non-scientologists have no problem with that just as they don’t have an issue with hardship in any militaries basic training. But then say that Miscavige does this to destroy the church, and it’s the only way he COULD control and destroy a group set up with these mores is by taking that same hardcore ethics mechanism and using it suppressively, which is not what LRH did.
Also get in there that he’s squirreling the central tenets and using future promises via events to keep people from looking at his crimes, and he’s wasting parishioner money. All this stuff could be said in a way that media would like it. The only way to drive a stake into Miscavige is reaching his hardcore base and this is the only way to do that is speak their language.
I think it’s crucial to mention the downstats too. It’s clear the church is doing a wink wink to Scn public, saying “It’s obvious we’re lying but it’s to protect the religion” – which is so untrue, they’re helping destroy it.
I disagree with presenting disconnection evidence though, because it’s already plain as day. Disconnection should be handled like
“This was brought back in after almost 20 years of LRH dropping it under highly questionable circumstances. This happened during the best expansion years ever and helped to kill that trendline. The early 80’s were clearly ‘don’t change anything’ mode and Von Young and other evidence points to a forgery regarding disconnection. Also no review has been done and LRH himself recalled policies when it continually blew up in his face so why isn’t Miscavige? Also disconnection for those 17 years was still practiced but not enforced as a formal church rule. It’s part of the tech of life.”
Mike said as much in a sentence in NYT and Marty and Christy have both phrased things in this kind of way before, talking to the base. It’s not true that they aren’t doing what I’m laying out above and I think you’re talking about this one series. In my opinion this series is fine the way it is.
Now after this series we know the tact the church is going to take and I’m pretty sure actions are going to be taken to counteract that, M&M and Christy and Steve etc are a smart bunch. It’s chess, and now the church gameplan is known.
Ceileen – thanks. I hear ya. Shortly after plunging head first, with thirst, onto the blog sites and hearing “disconnection is cancelled” I immediately contacted old friends that I had “dropped out of touch with” in order to avoid ethics handlings and delays in HCO if I wanted to get any service.
What a treat! Re-establishing those friendships was instantaneous – those theta lines were never “disconnected” between us. But, “technically” I wasn’t connected – and no enturbulation occurring. So the game works both ways, Tommy-dearest.
Imagine the resurgence of theta when the stops really get blown off this disconnection practice. I say practice because regardless of precisely stated policies (which can be traced in a chain, one to the next) the practice of disconnection is well known and deeply ingrained in the black ooze that masquerades as the life-blood of CoS’ operations.
So true what you said about the lawyer! Perhaps they’ve got her on an SO schedule now!? She certainly looks like it. Like most of em….like they haven’t slept properly in ages.
It’ll become a true meme when it appears as ‘getting a Dave’. “He’ll be get’n a Dave before long.”
Latest video from last night is up on my site if you missed it as well as some news on a new Idle Org under going a move and renovations
Jack Airey will be on the show this Saturday at 5pm PST. We will be taking a look at the production style of the AC 360 show and should be a great followup to this weeks events.
Worth watching. LOL
The republicans I think in SO uniforms!?
The republican party and Miscavige beating remark is about 8:48 or so.
*undergoing
Speaking of collecting stuff some place, does anyone know what’s happened to the KSW.com site? It hasn’t been coming up for a while…
I was just thinking the same. Let’s remember that the vast majority of those who will be seeking sanctuary will be scared and confused, and will need compassion and help.
“by doing it more, and more, and harder, and harder.”
It’s all show. He’s a chihuahua. If he had any real balls, he would show his face . . . innocent or not.
Jim,
Apologize? For spontaneous communication from the heart of the matter? No need, but appreciated. Your vent was GOOD stuff, call it like you see it, man, lying motherfuckers – yes they are. You got me laughing. Charge blowing. Arms around you. Thanks!
LOL!
Beautifully put Dan. Snow White – let’s get together over a cup of tea and I’ll help you disconnect from us awful SPs.
Hey Jim…
I don´t see anything to apologize for.
You are alive and you feel. The correct emotion is THIS one. NOT a sweetness and light emotion for such a betrayal.
I have been there and DO know what it feels.
Let´s drop all this “we are supposed to´s…” shall we?
We love you and I DO know who you are.
David Where art thou ! What a cold cold beings. mo love no warmth no nothing.
Yea and hopefully that change in leadership doesn’t go that vicious vampire looking Jenny Linson, with bulging eyes looking as if she is ready to lunge at Anderson Cooper any moment with her fangs protruding.
Thank you dear friends for your patience and compassion. It is indeed a new day and with your life as expressed in your words here, I am stronger. It’s not malice I feel for this issue, it is the phenomenon of ARC lines, severed brutally, and the raw power of those lines seeking reconnection. It seems it is more than just me that is behind that raw power. Life protests this and righteously so.
I’ve managed to put together a post, sans the flame, well, most of it, for Anderson Cooper’s blog on last night’s revelations. Here is what I’ve said:
“My personal experience with the destruction of a marriage and enforced disconnection at the direct behest of David Miscavige is detailed in an article from November 09 in the St. Petersburg Times.
Monique Yingling’s ‘defense’ of this act, is that I have some animosity toward Scientology, is patently untrue. I have never, in any place, blog, website, or any communication said anything negative about my own personal spiritual philosophy, Scientology and I am an Independent Scientologist to this very day.
The fact of enforced disconnection at the hands and at the relentless demands of David Miscavige is thoroughly documented. It would seem Ms. Yingling, similar to attorneys for organized crime, may have lost her objectivity and compromised her integrity under pressure from her client, David Miscavige, as she has blatantly misrepresented the fact of enforced disconnection under this destructive man who has usurped my group.”
You can stop him. We all can just taked “push- through “and follow-through”
Ever thought the people in the Masks would be here still today ?
Does anyone have the qoute from LRH about what courage is ?!? I misplaced it.
With Regards CD
it would help if you mention the actual web address as opposed to “my site”…..i would love to know!
THE CYCLE OF DENIAL FOR TRUE-BELIEVERS
Here is the logic loop many who are brainwashed will use to discredit the real reasons why you left your group. Most often, they don’t even know they are using it. And if you point it out to them they will NOT like it!
1. (Good cop tactic) The true believing party acts sad and hurt you are gone and projects hope you will come around and BLAMES YOUR LEAVING ON A TRAGEDY YOU COULDN’T HANDLE. And they will reject your conviction that evidence was your reason for leaving each time you bring it up.
2. (Bad cop tactic) “The true believing party acts indignant and angry you are gone and projects judgment and BLAMES YOUR LEAVING ON A CHARACTER FLAW, MENTAL ILLNESS OR SPIRITUAL FACTOR. (And they will reject your conviction that evidence was your reason for leaving each time you bring it up.)
3. (Dirty Cop tactic) If you raise a point that is valid and INSIST on staying on topic, they will invariably change the criteria for “truth,” in any way possible to falsify your claim. Why? So they can promptly return to using #1 and #2. and they will not permit your conviction that evidence was your reason for leaving to stand.
4. (Lying cop tactic) They “agree” with you as a ploy to get you into a session where you can be rehabilitated. THEN 1, 2, and 3 come beating down.
And it goes round and round and round…
If they are a true believer, YOU WILL NOT CONVINCE THEM WITH REASON.
Tee shirt:
My church leader can beat up your church leader.
Stephen Colbert is on board too
http://rutube.ru/tracks/3099006.html?v=79c8b956827ec9d8a838c4f2b4c8c741
I feel ya Jim!!
No problem, who ever heard of a tame ethics officer?? ( I know your the master of qual..but you got some EO in you too )
🙂
Alex
Now: The system he devised, is the system I want and the system that I will support.
Oh, that’s rich…
That’s right. It’s a great feeling to re-learn basic human compassion after leaving the cold, cruel world of Scientology.
Unfortunately, the contradictions in LRH’s works allow some of us to pick and choose which references to apply. I personally prefer LRH’s writings when he wasn’t having a bad hair day.
While some writings (such as “What Is Greatness?”) promote togetherness and loving your fellow, most of the ethics and PTS/SP tech creates a culture of pulling people apart by making a “greater than” or “lesser than” computation amongst your fellow humans…
down-stat < up-stat (penalize downstats!)
down-tone < up-tone ("to dispose of [down-toned ppl] quietly and without sorrow"-SOS)
wog < Scientologist (this concept has bread a culture of Scientology snobs that are out of comm with the world)
Green Scientologist < Clear
Clear < OT
Mission Staff < Org Staff
Org Staff < Sea Org Member
SP < Human
Human < "Homo Novis"
Philosophy < Scientology
Religion < Scientology
Any "other practice" < Scientology
It's no wonder that people who are "Scientologists", "OT", "up-stat" and "up-tone" feel they are so superior.
They see a fellow human being and instead of bonding with him, they feel pity and only wish to change him.
They no longer see themselves as human. They may be right. But while they feel they've taken a step up, in actuality they've taken two steps down.
P.S. This explains why Int Execs were so rude to Anderson Cooper. Instead of showing basic human compassion, they show their "superiority" that has been trained into them by David Miscavidge and by LRH. They've been trained to think they're better than him.
P.P.S. Let's not forget LRH's role in all this. He is the "Source" of this mess… not just "Source of the stuff we like".
Lady Minn, Get that domain name secured NOW.
Don’t let OSA beat you to it. It’s perfect, much like MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving).
I don’t think Jenny Linson or Cathy Fraser would stand a chance against you.
You’re going to get a lot of support in your efforts from all of us here plus a lot of people who aren’t Scientologists who will nevertheless sympathize deeply with you.
Go for it!
P.P.P.S. This also explains how you DM gets fellow team members to beat and humiliate each other. Unfortunately, it wasn’t DM alone who gave people this mindset. All these “greater-than” and “lesser-than” computations can be found in LRH’s works. And they’re all contradicted by his works when he woke up on the “right side of the bed”.
I love, I love your sense of humor and your very subtle understatements 🙂
Is this doesn’t make you cry —
Thanks to whomever put this together. It’s heart wrenching and drives the point home.
WH
A little off of the post title, I just ran across this on the official church site. This is on the DM bio, proving his status.
“In 1983, L. Ron Hubbard described a heroic Church executive who cleaned the ranks of rogue staff attempting to seize control of Scientology while Mr. Hubbard was engaged in intensive research and absent from the Church. As Mr. Hubbard himself phrased it:
“So forgive me for not managing the Church when it almost fell into hostile hands. It all came out all right. Why? Because real Scientologists made sure it did. My faith was justified.”
That real Scientologist L. Ron Hubbard spoke of was David Miscavige.”
AND ANOTHER ONE
“Trust and friendship are things forged in fire and pounded out on the anvil of life. We have been through a lot together. I trust you as you trust me.”
—L. Ron Hubbard to David Miscavige”
I am not sure where they dug this missing data from, however when LRH died and Dm informed everyone, nothing was mentioned about this data. Why not?
Snowwhite,
stunning insights!!
Dan thanked Marty already and I just have to join happily.
Colbert segment on the russian tubes is here:
http://rutube.ru/tracks/3099006.html?v=79c8b956827ec9d8a838c4f2b4c8c741
Thanks, DR.
That compassion, and acting according to one’s religious principles (the importance and eternal nature of family) are probably two good reasons the Church of Latter Day Saints has already survived over twice as long as the c of s, and is (legitimately) a global religion.
Jason, I would usually delete such uninformed venting on this blog as it borders on propaganda designed to enturbulate and misinform and misassign ownership. But, I think I know who you are and from what I have heard of you, I don’t think this is you speaking. Take a nice walk and look at the sights. If I am wrong let me know. Because, advertendly or no, your rant might as well come from Tommy Davis. It is DM’s defense, throw LRH under the bus – he made me do it. It is an insult to the thousands who frequent this blog who have the intelligence and experiential track to know that this is not how rational beings who read LRH think. This is not how they translate and put his words into practice.
Jim,
Thanks for communicating MY feelings so clearly. That alone blows charge.
This is the most restimulative segment for many of us.
I started writing my own story to share it, but then deleted it as it is still too painful, even now over 10 years later.
One day I will tell you in person.
Complete BS.
LRH , IMHO, would NEVER say — I trust you as you trust me.
He would say simply —- I trust you.
These are fabrications.
WH
Jeff’s ex-wife’s (and Lesevre, Starkey and the other ex-wives) way of speaking certainly showed the world the value of “Never defend, always attack.” The world saw the attack mode, and I doubt they admired it any more than I did.
P.S.
There is one good thing though that I did take away from this incredibly painful situation:
It really made me confront the darkest corners of my raw emotions and in doing so I was forced to learn to love and grant beingness a lot better and to really think for myself again.
I had to learn how to apply “What is Greatness” for real, just so that I could get through my day to day life and pursue some happiness again, rather than be sucked into the abyss of hatred.
So in the the end, with the correct use of LRH Tech, this did make me a better, more causative being. Amazing how the tech works !! Go LRH !!
Somehow I am reminded of the film “A Few Good Men” with TC and Nicholson and the issue concerning the Code Red.
Code Red: a euphemism for a violent extrajudicial punishment.
TC: “Did you order the ‘Code Red’? I want the truth.”
Nicholson: “You can’t handle the truth!”
Because he thinks he defends his country, Colonel Jessep (Nicholson) does not see why Kaffee (TC), who has never been on the front line, should even question his methods from “under the blanket of the very freedom I provide”.
George MacDonald:
“To be trusted is a greater compliment than to be loved.””
Couldn’t have said it better. I love reading the yellow snow. Could you open up a section of all (her) posts?
What I found an incredible insightful analysis of this or related phenomena was done by PlainOldThetan.
Unreality and Service Facsimiles http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=520
Christie: You rock!
What a difference in the level of communication. Looking at the official Scientologists, acting like angry freaks (DM valence) and the Independents who are there freely and communicating with ARC.
OSA: you need to get your shit together. It is plain, black and white, anyone with a little brains can see that the freaks from uplines are destroying the church.
Im glad to see that the husbands who are out are getting a chance to respond to their ex-wives who were interviewed last Monday.
Looking forward to tomorrow nights show
Jason, Ya know normally I would say Grrrr, but
you do have a right to your opinion. If LRH is
only 80% right, I’ll take it! I think you need to
thoroughly test his writings before you throw
them out. I’d start with a good dictionary.
What is becoming oh so clear in this series is that it is about protecting David Miscavige. None of the church representatives seem to realize that rather than speak to the issue of violence, they speak to protect Miscavige.
Miscaviges absense speaks louder than words.
What is Miscavige doing to protect Scientology?
Nothing.
What is Miscavige doing to protect himself?
Everything.
Jim,
I gotta laugh. My wife who has never been on lines, never been in an org, knows nothing about Scientology except for what I’ve told her watched last nights episode of 360, turned to me an said,”What a bunch of lying mf’ers!”
You, verbatim.
I’m laughing, inside. Outside, I’m stll in disbelief. Until I found Marty’s blog, I was “staying off-lines” because of my declare and not wanting to rock the boat. Now? I’m setting the boat on fire and jumping in with both feet!
Nah, you nailed it!
Congratulations!
Job well done!
ARC,
Bozz
Ziiiiing! Arrow hit the bullseye!
Snowhite you live in your a prison created by your own mind.
Joe,
I just secured “mothers-against-disconnection.com” (as in MAD) “scientologists-against-disconnection.com… &.info) (as in SAD)
To: The most esteemed collection of legal minds to ever be esteemed
(aka Zuckert! Scoutt! & Rasenberger! L.L.P.!)
Ms. Yingling et al,
How truly astounding to see people of your supposed professional
and intellectual caliber representing Scientology (Scientology?
Really? Don’t y’all wince each time you hear the name?),
especially when it is clear through your (you, Ms. Yingling, re:
CNN/Anderson Cooper/Sins of Tax Code Exploitation/etc. [btw, the
tragedy of your name’s homophonous relationship to my beloved beer
is not lost on me]) body language and tone of voice that you don’t
believe a word of the “church’s” claims of innocence, propriety, or
decency. I wonder how you can square defending these craven
sociopaths with all of the ethical training you must surely have
picked up along the way. There must be other clients whose money
is not so ill-gotten, though perhaps that consideration is the
exclusive domain of the laity. Plus, you gotta feed the beast,
right? Right? [insert sound of damp-ish gagging]
When this terrible, brutal organization is revealed for what it
truly is–an inevitability at this point–you and your firm will
perhaps have to explain to many folks why you went above and beyond
to help create the illusion of legitimacy for a group as morally
bankrupt as Scientology; a group that, with the assistance of your
services, has ruined the lives and fortunes of so many innocent
people through the cynical manipulation of vulnerabilities.
I’d speculate that some of you might lose sleep over your
unconscionable activities, but I can’t recall now whether or not
the undead actually close their eyes at the end of the day.
Perhaps one of you could send me data regarding this and other
biological functions? I have so many questions.
Bon chance, you soulless scumbags.
Mosely Tankanian
Most appalled citizen in the whole of citizenry entire
I think in HCO ethics orders disconnection is clearly stated. Let’s give to Anderson a HCO Ethics order and if needed an ethics book. Let’s show him the exact reference in that. He should show that on the program. Game over.
Anger can be curved into creative action. Calculated deliberate and pinpointed.
Anger releases Energy when you realize this you have a choiche.
Venting is not a crime. It gets the scarecrows out of the soul.
Mark Twain:
“If you tell the truth you don’t have to remember anything.”
very atractive indeed
Jim,
I felt it, you said it.
Thank you for the outburst – it blew charge for me.
I couldn’t even verbalize it I was so outraged.
Veritas
You nailed it!
Colbert is a long time lurker he and lolcat go a long way.
I am reminded of Snowball (reference: Animal Farm by George Orwell). Dm seems to be using
that smart little book as his primer. If I remember correctly, things did not end well for Snowball…
Jonathan’s name is a live linnk, arcx. Click on it.
That reminds me of the Code Red they use in the Sea Org – overboarding.
Did Miscavige order overboarding? He sure did. Several times.
And, considering that it was at five in the morning in february, it certainly is an unhealthy treatment.
That just me sick!
After watching these videos it is amazing to see ED Int (used to be be anyway) and the like, lie so blatantly. I know some excuse their behavior because they are in fear, etc. However, they have forgotten the reference that asks, “Why is YOUR neck so precious?” …
Jim, that’s a truly great letter to Anderson Cooper you wrote.
And here’s one more hug. UMMMM!
Just Me
If you have access to the Wall Street Journal there is an article by Peggy Noonan about the scandals affecting the Catholic Church. There are, I think, parallels with what is happening with the Church of Scn. I quote the following from her WSJ article:
“In both the U.S. and Europe, the scandal was dug up and made famous by the press. This has aroused resentment among church leaders, who this week accused journalists of spreading “gossip,” of going into “attack mode” and showing “bias.”
But this is not true, or to the degree it is true, it is irrelevant. All sorts of people have all sorts of motives, but the fact is that the press—the journalistic establishment in the U.S. and Europe—has been the best friend of the Catholic Church on this issue. Let me repeat that: The press has been the best friend of the Catholic Church on the scandals because it exposed the story and made the church face it. The press forced the church to admit, confront and attempt to redress what had happened. The press forced them to confess. The press forced the church to change the old regime and begin to come to terms with the abusers. The church shouldn’t be saying j’accuse but thank you.”
The Church of Scn may be now facing the same crossroads. The Church could take the charges of abuse seriously, actually investigate what its history has been, and take important steps to correct any abuses discovered and to become more transparent to its parishioners. Or, it can choose to deny, accuse, attack and blame others. As it has been to many devout Catholics, abuses are difficult to confront . But in the end it may be the only thing that can salvage the Church of Scn.
Same, in fact, this is really something I’m still trying to come to terms with. I always knew when I was in the SO that it was ‘imperfect’, but felt that the reforms needed to be done from within. Now I don’t know if this is really possible. It’s too far off the rails. Very sad.
I sincerely hope that COB appreciates all this free publicity that Marty and friends have thoughtfully provided for him.
First,
Very good point indeed! I looked it up and it says:
Cathy Bernardini: “I was married to hjm for almost 35 years….”
… “In January 2004 when [Kingpin] beat him up,I thought
he was going to kill [him] and I was hysterical. [He] had
cuts on his ears and face, his lips were swollen, his face was
bruised, he had bruises on his chest. He was a mess. Those
injuries lasted for days. It was a nightmare. …”
[Kingpin] = Marty in “Freedom” code.
I remember DM standing up on stage talking about Battlefield Earth before it came out as a movie — he said that it stayed true to the book. Almost immediately upon the movie’s start, this was very clearly NOT the case. The book was amazing and the movie felt like an attempt to trash LRH’s reputation as a writer. It was truly awful and it was embarrassing.
I couldn’t ever shake DM having said that — I wondered ‘has he read the book???’
With the obvious failures of Norman Starkey, Guillaume Lesèvre, Tommy Davis and sisterhood to make their (drilled) points during the show. Some of them if not all are going back in the hole very soon. DM is going to have a mandatory staff meeting and tell everyone at Int how bad they were and once again he has to do everything himself… such as “You see once more, I wearing your hats and these guys dropped the ball” etc… (Dejà Vu)… Some of them will probably be exported or RPFed in a very near future.
God, the deep levels of brain-washing are really coming to light. While the whole world justifiably laughs, those in the tiny Cocoon Of Ignorance still believe they are the superior beings that will help mankind. Regarding the 90-second clip on Stephen Colbert last night, well, just LOOK at Norm Starkey. No, really…..LOOK at him. Obnose what’s ACTUALLY there. He’s a mess. He looks like he’s having a seizure. His TR’s are entirely absent. I don’t even think that HE was sitting there. What I saw was a very PTS robot, terrified of not being forcefull enough to appease DM and thus keep himself out of the RPF. And what’s more, Marty LEFT the SO. He wasn’t “removed” by DM, as Starkey insinuated. The only 1.1 I saw on Anderson Cooper was coming from the church. As for Stephen Colbert, love him or hate him, he is a HUGE phenomenon on this planet. He has a MASSIVE audience. His stats are in total affluence. A LOT of people saw that clip and a LOT more will be sharing it with others on the net.
Note that last nights 360 SCN segment is a video now on the front page of http://www.cnn.com.
Snowhite,
I consider myself a Scientologist and am not attacking nor have I ever attacked Scientology.
Could I become open about my identity as an Independant Scientologist without having my friends disconnect from me, and, more to the point for me, without my daughter having to lose contact with her step-father (a staff member)?
You know as well as I do that I could not and that my daughter would not be able to be in comm with him because of me. She would also not be allowed to do any services because of me.
How is that right? How is that on-Source? These people can lie all they want about disconnection because it’s ‘out-PR’ and non-Scientologists ‘won’t understand’. The point is that disconnection has been *ABUSED* to no end to control people, not to help them get up the Bridge.
Snowwhite,
Meanwhile …. we’re getting case gain and — by the looks of it — some of the poor souls within your walls ARE NOT.
And I’m talking STELLAR case gain.
Case gain? SPs?? What does that tell you Snowwhite?
Glad you’re not Bashful, but you may be less Sleepy if you find your MU’s (misunderstood words). It’s really Dopeyto lie. The folks in your walls are Sneezy. It explains why so many are Grumpy.
You can Doctor any rationalization you want but we prefer to apply Scientology than the twisted Wabbit Hunting game of find the SP. There just are not that many of them in the world as you think. We’re after real ones.
In case you apply it for the well being for others, intelligently with good intention, than I agree. It is probably much better and much human than any other system on Earth.
The problem that you can’t apply this system quite intelligently.
Take statistics for example. It is true that there is not a universe where everything remains on a given level. But there is not a universe either where you can always raise the stats. Big logical failure right there. Because some stats must be raised some are better to hold around a certain level. And “beleive me” there are more gross errors in this system.
Besides nowadays wogs are not so wog. Look at Anderson for example. OTs could learn from this guy.
LOl Yeah. Just love these “choices” members are given.
CHURCH of Miscavage: ” You have a choice: you can either talk to this person and give up everything you know and love …. OR ….simply cut them off and the Kindgom of heaven is yours. ”
That’s like giving a soul the choice to commit suicide by water or fire. Some “choice”.
You and David Miscavige are in the GLEE of SP. Wabbit Hunting. You are harming people of good will. Big FAIL on not handling real SPs and suppression. Big FAIL for alter is. Big FAIL for OFF SOURCE. Big FAIL for witch hunts and oppression. BIG FAIL for FAILURE to DELIVER Scientology.
Sophie’s Choice
Don`t you get it? There is no such Thing like an Independend Scientologist. You can`t attack the COB all the time, and being a Scientologist at the same time, that`s impossible.
Nobody ever forced me to disconnect from someone. But, as a very usefull part of the Tech, I, and a lot of Scientologists apply it in their lives, perhaps some of your relatives here did that too, and this is, what you don`t like.
Everybody in the world has the right to disconnect from someone, if one didn`t like him anymore. And in this case, no one has the right to enforce a Connection! That would be Stalking! If you were my friends here, I would disconnect from you, and no one had to tell me to do so. But you are Enemies! Blind and dumb, but Enemies! And I can attack you! That is not being in contact.
Antoine, your video made me weep, especially for Ida Camburn who will probably never see her son again, before she dies.
If David Miscavige really wanted to handle things the right way and wear the right hat, he would remove himself from the church.
Snowhite
You say that the PC needs to be protected from the SP as auditing won’t work well, yet you allow the biggest SP the CoS has ever known, to be the leader! Protect your PC’s and get rid of DM.
What’s interesting is David Miscavige’s attempt to discredit and “dead agent” Marty Rathbun and others by bringing on those Ex wives and executives only served up more evidence to public of what a what type of person he really is.
Look at the people he sent to handle the situation, do they appear heathly and high toned or do they appear a wreck?
They are themselves living and breathing proof of how he treats people.
You need more evidence that David Miscavige is a abusive person?
Look at them!
There’s your evidence right there!
Jim Logan ~~
You are a rare and special human being.
You have endured DM atrocities and remain exemplary in loyalty to LRH and almost always take the moral high road.
LRH would be proud of you.
First Colbert Report, next…SNL.
Comedians are going to have a field day with the clowns we’ve been watching this week. Its going to go viral.
David Midget is going to become the laughingstock of the world. He won’t be able to go out in public ever again without worrying about who’s saying/thinking what. He’s a hunted man now.
Amen
P.S. Thank You Marty, Jeff, Steve, Christy, Tom, Amy!
…and Anderson. What a job he’s done! Fantastic.
Tone 41.” It was terrific to see Christie. She’s so articulate and poised. Her explanation of how the church applies disconnection was nuanced and intelligent.”
You took the words right out of my mouth. I thought Christie’s explanation of disconnection within the COS made it a moot point wheather or not the COS had an official policy on that or not.
And she put it in such a simple way that no one could possibly miss-understand what really goes on. I feel like she put the entire subject to bed. That was the highlight of last night’s interview for me. Furthermore, AC had the wisdom to put it at the very end of the piece. It was brilliant!
Hey Snowhite, Did you ever ask yourself (while keeping your own thethan integrity) if DM may have alter-ised LRH ethics policies?
In such extend as being able (facts) to SP declare anyone on the spot as he wished?
Did you ever challenge his “policies” NOT LRH but him (DM)?
Well I did!! and as a result I was kicked out (not by him but via SO MEMBERS – like he used Norman, Guillaume, Tommy Davis and etc…) Despite my factual production records and upstats.
You said:
“The PC must get protected! It can`t be allowed to AUDIT someone which is in close contact to a suppressive Person, or even be in the Church, I don`t know. But this PC isn`t FORCED to break the contact to an SP.”
In relation to what? DM deciding who is an SP? or LRH policies saying so?
Who do you believe or trust? LRH? or DM? (two different persons).
The majority of the Thetan writing to this blog are people like you who were part of the Church but for one reason or another decided that enough is enough (real experiences and confront of evil) , keeping their own integrity decided to stop committing overts for the greatest good for the greatest numbers. Some of us have the CONFRONT to stand up and speak out for the greatest good for the greatest numbers. and protect our FREEDOM and the Standard Tech of LRH.
Boyd H., I am not sure I fully got “talking to HIS BASE”. I get it as speak the same language and basically speak about his violent ways and wrong application of force because that’s what he understands. Correct me if I am wrong.
Although I leave up strategy to others, I am no strategy person, more of a PR person, I kind of understand what is going on and I think the first stone was put there by Marty and the rest with this series. Physical violence, especially when the leader of a church is doing it, is a very interesting subject for the media and the public. The news spread like wild fire. It’s an interesting subject on this planet. Beatings in a church. Gives publicity. I can agree to that.
And then we got into disconnection which is another violent action by the church. I never understood it anyway and never applied it fanatically, but that’s what we are dealing in this 4th part of the series.
So that tactic of escalation in approaching bigger and bigger spheres of violence by DM and his minions is definitely something that I have seen taking place through this series. And then the Anglosaxon way is to approach things and matters under discussion in a more elaborate and thorough way than happens in other cultures where one can fly from subject to subject. I can undestand that, too.
In any way, tell me if I am tracking, this is a part of a strategy and is based on something very real to the people.
All I said is that this approach might not be so real to Scientologists since they wouldn’t question authority, for violence at least. In the Sea Org I could have not being allowed to have children but I coudn’t have the alterations on the Tech. When I was fully aware of that happening, I told them and got out of there.
Still I think the subject matter of this series, Violence in the Sea Org and now Disconnection is a very basic point and it definitely had (St. Pete’s Times) and still has an impact. If we could on that cornerstone put another one or more on how DM manipulated people and got them out if they would defend Standard Tech, you know… throw in some data, like what really happened after 1982 when DM takes over, that would be awesome as then, I think we would have taken on our side many Scientologists who see something is wrong but cannot put their finger on it or are afraid to talk about it.
In any case let me know if we are tracking here.
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel the momentum really starting to build . . . ?
I have spent several frustrating hours attempting to view the CNN AC 360 four part series by clicking links and also copy and pasting to no avail. when i get to the CNN website I am viewing some shit about veggies at the movies and all manner of other topics of no interest to me. I fill in the title in the CNN search site and again do not locate anything. Are the OSA hackers re-directing my search attempts or what? Any tips?
Is there a requirement to disconnect from people declared PTS? I only recall there being one about people declared SP.
“That’s right. It’s a great feeling to re-learn basic human compassion after leaving the cold, cruel world of Scientology.”
Are you saying the world outside of Scientology is warm and fuzzy?
If you think that pal, you’re not in reality at all.
Just go to Africa where there are thousands of babies dying from starvation every day or to State mental hospitals where people live sometimes for the rest of their lives crushed down in hopelessness and drug stupors. Or maybe the homeless people who live from day to day not knowing what they are going to eat or where they are going to sleep.
A solution to the DM problem.
Committee of Evidence
Antoine ~~
Very moving ~~ pictures worth 1000 words….thanks for posting.
love,
War and Peace
Marty, Yeah there was some rant in there. Excuse me if my ranting offended any of the free thinkers on the blog.
I just spent the afternoon chilling by the pool. I´m not going to try to debate this point since:
1. I respect what you´re doing and we agree on the important stuff.
2. You knew LRH–I didn´t.
3. You worked in that environment for decades–I didn´t.
You have a better understanding of the subject than I do. All I can provide is an outsider´s perspective. Reading other philosophies has got me thinking and maybe the thoughts above aren´t ready for discussion.
Just to clarify, by no means was I saying LRH caused DM to do it. I said he was Source of a mindset. The more I read and listen to LRH, it´s hard to say if he intended to create that mindset in his church or not. It is human nature to want to “be better than others” or to belong to an special group. These are major marketing buttons that the CoM plays on hard. I don´t know if LRH did. Maybe Scientologists were more humble in LRH´s days. I wouldn´t know. Many of us never knew the Church pre-DM…
Here is a story from Gary Morehead (head Security officer Int base) telling a story about Norman Starkey:
Thank you Jim. More charge blowing off for me right now. Grief and loss, speaking for myself, takes a long time to blow. I’m crying and glad of it….
Thanks again.
How is that right? How is that on-Source?
Unfortunately, it truly is on-Source, given the Suppressive Acts PL.
Let’s not forget that, no matter how much worse DM may be making it, the groundwork for this was laid by LRH.
Seeing that the Church is following the same pattern that they used against the St. Petersburg Times articles, I’m wondering how many millions will be spent on the Freedom mag to dead agent the Anderson Cooper series.
Since this is a national broadcast I guess DM will have to send a copy to every household in America, oops….. forgot this is also seen worldwide.
Those IAS reg’s better get busy or poor DM will have to dip into his billion dollar reserve.
She’d say “Anderson! That is an outright lie! I’m astonished! Master Miscavige couldn’t even reach mikes face! It’s so obvious that bruise was from Marty!”
Dear Tom, Fidelio, Joe Howard, and Friend of Ron,
Thank you very much for your support and best wishes. Also, I wish to thank Natalie for her support and comments a day or two ago. I will get in touch with you Natalie.
http://www.mothers-against-disconnection.org is up and running!!!!!. It is the barest rudiments of a web site, but it is there. There is a lot more to do on this site, but I vowed I would get it up and running TODAY and I did! I am not the most tech-saavy person in the world.
I have been MAD a long time, but never had the courage until today to do anything about it that might actually change things. I would not wish my experience on anyone, except those who have perpetrated these and other crimes like it, and only so they would know how it feels.
Friend of Ron, what do you plan to do with those domain names?
Love to all,
Lady Minn
Darn! Why didn’t Anderson Cooper interview you??? You would have been perfect! Case closed!
Good mock up Joe!! “the horror, the horror…” Kurtz slowly dying… gazing at Snowhite…
LOL!!
I will just bite my lip.
Alex
Clear your MU’s on what an SP really is…aahh Miscsavage, Linson and others from what I can see…your own case gain is in jeopardy.
Oh come on Snowhite.
Come on.
You are fooling no one.
You know perfectly well that if a Scientologist has continued comm with an “SP” or in “bad standing” ~ they themselves will be declared and FURTHER disconnected from all their comm lines.
This is openly threatened by Flag and other SO
MAAs.
It has nothing to do with whether they are currently in auditing or not. It has nothing to do with their case gain.
Disconnection is enforced as part of the culture.
OSA even orders Scientology companies to fire those who work in a Scientology company that are connected to SPs.
Zero to do with making case gain.
Your “spin” is only believable in your own mind.
It’s amazing from reading up the hundreds of posts on this blog that quite a few bring up the point of TRs. Or actually the Out-TRs of the top representatives of Mestology.
It really raises the question then of Standards of Mestology in terms of TRs doesn’t it? My assumption is that as DM doesn’t himself want to appear in public, then he’s probably drilled and passed these guys’ TRs.
I definitely would not want to be in session with any of these people – whereas I would pick up the cans with Marty, Steve and others.
Jason,
Thanks. I tend not to want to open the debate because of the lack of full context. I am working on a larger project that will put LRH and Scientology into a much broader context, and I am tackling these perceptions head on. In the interim, perhaps I am too quick to criticize, because the one thing that irks me more than anything else over the past year is DM’s proclivity for using LRH as his excuse. I think it is the sickest travesty I’ve seen and maybe I haven’t fully applied my own advice about moving on and moving up.
Tim H, good point. But, from first hand observation DM has moved the church and its elite status members toward the political think that perpetuates the world conditions you have noted.
Sinar, not a minor point. There was an international tech situation in 1995. And it was TR’s and Metering. Now, realize LRH wanted to devote the last years of his life to working at Gold finishing the tech films – EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM ON THE SUBJECT OF TR’S AND METERING. But DM held him hostage, while cross ordering GOLD OFF of tech films and ON TO Events. So, in 1995 instead of handling LRH’s tech why (TRs and metering), while C/Sing the likes of Lisa McPherson, the SOB turned everybody into robots (Golden Age of Treachery).
Hey SnowRigth, I see you have set your mind. Well never mind!
Kaz
Click here~~
http://www.xenutv.com/blog/
It is a library of every TV show that ever exposes the Church in date chronological sequence.
Snowhite – look around you: we’re talking about Scientologists applying Scientology to their lives and the lives of others. Not squirreling, not using Scientology to harm people (reverse Scientology as has been happening in the ‘Church of Scientology’ – and I wish that weren’t the case, I really and truly do.) I wish everything said in those events were true – that Scientology was greatly expanding, but I know from my own personal observations that it isn’t, and hasn’t been, in my area and many here can confirm the same from theirs. We’re not gloating about it, far from it. It’s one of the major things that have made us finally realize that we need to do something and, based on a lot of experience, that something has to be done from the outside at this point. It sucks that it’s come to this, but it has.
You want to talk about suppression and squirreling? There are plenty of accounts by people here and elsewhere on the internet, but I’ll give you one little one from my own personal experience: my senior telling me and someone from RTC telling my husband that I should get an abortion. Doesn’t that just go flat out against what LRH says in Book One??? This sort of thing isn’t isolated – it’s unfortunately endemic.
Deirdre – you are much like the so-called ‘hard-line’ Scientologists in what you say about disconnection being on-source. If you read the tech about PTS/SPs, ARC, communication itself, the dynamics, etc., it’s pretty clear that disconnection as a commonplace thing (or even anything more than a very rare thing) makes absolutely no sense in terms of Scientology. It shouldn’t exist and if it does that is off-Source! You take one line and apply it quite literally without taking into account the entire body of work that is Scientology. I saw that being done in the SO to justify the things that people here have been exposing as abuses. I see it in Snowhite’s posts.
Theo we’re tracking. “His base” means his political base, like he’s a politician. So his base would be the Scientologists in the church and on staff who are misled by DM and still believe DM is a good guy.
Lady Minn,
I’m getting an error msg when trying to load http://www.mothers-against-disconnection.org/
Lucy, that’s from RJ 82.
LRH was talking about Norman, DM, Nan, Brennan and all of those who were on the rollback missions that found the plants and got them out of the Church. It said Scientologist(S) = plural.
Actually LRH said “Handful of Scientologists”. He was not just talking about DM, who, at the time, was off playing with music and Hollywood people.
He was a child then and had more fun playing.
I know this excerpt by heart because I was part of that. So it is alter-ised on the website. The Church will alter anything now because it is legal and that’s because DM is now source and now anyone can alter. Consider it an anarchy of alterers.
Kaz
Try youtube.
Or go to youtube and type in CNN – A History of Violence and you should get quite a few videos show up.
I agree, Marcy. And the quote from Paul Haggis’ letter was kind of like the cherry on top. 🙂
A Lawyer/Attorney is no more than a very highly paid sales person. ~
Snowhite,
You keep leaving messages on a blog which is privately owned and managed. And you say “That is not being in contact.”? Who is that blind and dumb?
You cannot control your impulse and keep forcing yourself acting as a clown here, talking ideology out of your little own universe, while most people on this forum can quote all kinds of source and policies which you even have no idea where they are. This is Stalking!
A catholic cannot remain a catholic and attack the pope for child-molesting? Is that impossible, too?
You are the one DID NOT GET IT.
Don’t pretend that you are such an angel. You are acting like those spoiled, irresponsible kids in the church, being a full time PC and student at their late twenty even over thirty without earning one cent from your own toil. This is why you can act so “innocent” and talk naive.
This society is not made of Scientology policies. There are laws and orders, you cannot overlook them.
I feel sorry for your mummy and daddy.
I know disconnection is very real, and I have seen my friend suffer over this, what a beautiful tribute to all the people who are affected by this tragedy, RIP Lisa, yr voice is finally being heard, we wont forget you
Ok Overdrive, but no, I don’t believe you at all. I believe in his system, I have seen its workability and I will keep supporting it as it is. This will be my final say on this thread.
“Are you saying the world outside of Scientology is warm and fuzzy?”
I wasn’t saying that exactly. There is suffering and evil in life. It’s a matter of mathematical probability that we might be the next one to experience that suffering or evil.
Moving Forward, I’m not justifying disconnection. I’m just pointing out that it’s there in green on white.
It’s pretty clear from the body of LRH’s work that he intended the CofS and royalty-paying field to be the only source of Scientology. I was on finance lines, I’ve read OEC Vols 2 & 3 many times.
Well, the officially-sanctioned field is gone, many people who consider themselves Scientologists are no longer in the CofS and likely never will be, and the CofS is itself off-source.
LRH did not plan for that future.
So here we are, disconnected from people we care about (or at least have cared about), and many people’s lives are ruined in the carnage of disconnection.
DR, thanks for this very real example from the Mormon church.
The only congregation I’ve been a part of for any time is the CofS, so I really only know their practices, so seeing a compare/contrast story is really helpful for me.
Jim,
Yessss! Couldn’t agree more! He won’t survive that fire.
Snowhite:”You can`t attack the COB all the time, and being a Scientologist at the same time, that`s impossible. ”
Egads! I think Snowed has solved the problem. All we have to do is mock-up being in the same time and place as the COM and it should as-is.
Who would have thunk it?
Getting back to the series. I found myself feeling very sorry for the Ex-wives last night. I realized that they are (to borrow one of their favorite words) bitter and unhappy. They’re husbands took off and they feel stuck and overwhelmed with where they are. Basically, they’re pissed off about all of it and it shows.
I’m not amazed that they are so reactive and angry but I am surprised that not one of them has a clue about how they would be perceived. As Scientologists, we have the greater perception of why they are behaving the way they are on public television. However, the average Joe Public really only know how they are affected while watching and listening to their rightous anger. None of them were likeable. That’s usually enough for most people to make up their minds or form an opinion.
The current COS is so out of touch with the public. I’m not sure if they could ever adequately prepare, on of their own, to sucessfully defend the church on any point whatsoever.
I hope that this series is the starting point and proper gradient (I think it is) to begin to address publicly all the other outnesses and abuses that are going on. As much as I’d like to see all the skeletons out of the closet and paraded on public television, I know that would be way too steep a gradient for the public to swallow.
My deepest thanks to the wisdom and efforts of those of you who made this happen. Cheers to your grasp on sanity and what’s right.
Dear Sharon,
I apologize, the website is http://www.moms-against-disconnection.org. In my hurry to get things handled, I forgot it was “moms”, not” mothers”. I use the word, Moms, because my son calls me Mom, and I didn’t want to copy MADD, Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Also, Mom is more informal, and more kids call their mother “Mom”, than “Mother”, IMHO. I felt the public could relate to it better.
Sorry about that!
Lady Minn
this song is a perfect example of what comes out of Tommy Davis’s mouth every time he opens it
Snowhite, when was the last time you were a PC and got some grade chart, not sec checks and FPRD and rollbacks?
I bet it’s been a heck of a long time – who’s really connected to the SP?
The Independents which you say don’t exist, are Moving on up a little higher and that’s why more are more are showing up here and posting.
Youtubes of all 5 nights:
Monday [URL=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJN7eptXjY4″]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJN7eptXjY4[/URL]
Tuesday [URL=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWM5FEcfIVg”] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWM5FEcfIVg%5B/URL%5D
Wednesday [URL=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOoXzP8iDA4″]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOoXzP8iDA4[/URL]
Thursday [URL=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3AaK-_fRIE&feature=player_embedded”]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3AaK-_fRIE&feature=player_embedded [/URL]
Friday Part1 [URL=”http://www.youtube.com/user/00Truth0Seeker00#p/a/u/1/uIut575VXb8″]http://www.youtube.com/user/00Truth0Seeker00#p/a/u/1/uIut575VXb8[/URL]
Friday Part 2 [URL=”http://www.youtube.com/user/00Truth0Seeker00#p/a/u/0/sHZzkZDejT4″]http://www.youtube.com/user/00Truth0Seeker00#p/a/u/0/sHZzkZDejT4[/URL]
I got a call at about 11:30pm last night to donate toward my daughter’s IAS membership… I can’t donate toward my own because I’m a freeloader.
DM’s name is now all over the front of scientology.org (more so than LRH!). It’s insane. And I’ve NEVER seen those “LRH-on-DM” quotes before. (Google certainly came up with nothing, either). I don’t like it.
Jack,
Thanks for pointing this out. You want to know how obvious his propaganda efforts are becoming? Read this passage from his site carefully. Note the outpoint.
“So forgive me for not managing the Church when it almost fell into hostile hands. It all came out all right. Why? Because real Scientologists made sure it did. My faith was justified.”
That real Scientologist L. Ron Hubbard spoke of was David Miscavige.
It demonstrates what Miscavige is a master of, invalidating the efforts and products of all others and misappropriating them as his own.
I think Cat Daddy has really pegged this cat.
Wow Lucy!
They must have Winston Smith working overtime on the RTC site!
“In 1983, L. Ron Hubbard described a heroic Church executive who cleaned the ranks of rogue staff attempting to seize control of Scientology while Mr. Hubbard was engaged in intensive research and absent from the Church. As Mr. Hubbard himself phrased it:
“So forgive me for not managing the Church when it almost fell into hostile hands. It all came out all right. Why? Because real Scientologists made sure it did. My faith was justified.”
That real Scientologist L. Ron Hubbard spoke of was David Miscavige.”
True the above quote is from Ron but it’s from RJ 38 and in there he doesn’t talk about Miscavige saving the Church nor even suggest that a single individual did.
In other words it is revisionism.
More accurately an out right lie!
The following quote:
“Trust and friendship are things forged in fire and pounded out on the anvil of life. We have been through a lot together. I trust you as you trust me.”
Ron’s more likely more likely writing about someone else and Miscavige probably hijacked this quote for his own self serving aggrandizement.
Miscavige in fact had very little personal contact with the man!
He worked as a glorified grip in the Photo Shoot Org which later became Gold then as basically a cut out for Pat Broeker!
The man has no shame!
Unbelievable!
Especially when you consider the fact that if such a quote about him actually existed.
Why didn’t they show it to those of us who were “disaffected” instead of the oblique quote from the letter given to the Riverside County probate judge?
Rhetorical.
Because it didn’t exist until he plagiarized it!
He’s not only into “severe reality adjustments” but “severe reality distortions” as well!
RJ, did you notice how in the very next line after the RJ 38 quote, DM turned the plural “real Scientologists” into “Scientologist”. All this quote proves is what many who worked around DM have been saying – he specializes in invalidating and negating the products of OTHERS and misappropriating them to himself. Sick.
I support Jason.
Even though some of his words sounded like the ones from “extremist” and “nihilist” (in P.P.S. and PPPS), he said mostly what WE agree with. It’s not just DM.
Yes, it’s great that people like Marty, Jeff, Tom, Steve, Amy, Christie, Mike… shed some sunlight onto the dark side. I experience some return of my basic rightness (NOT the one that I acquired through intelligence, gains or education but the one given to me by nature and ability to think for myself).
I used to take pride in being a Scientologist – one of the most honest beings on Earth. One of the most ethical in the Universe.
Were they (ex-wives, Starkey, LeServe, Davis)
honest in this show? Were they ethical?
Is it what I was after?
Wasn’t I like them being inside?
I used to. Not anymore.
THE culprit is not just DM and “his minions.”
Jason is also correct on this point: maybe it’s not
LRH who created to Scientologists such mindset (and “brainwashing”).
I think it might be the tendency to become an effect of group think (which is stronger than own) while within the group.
I had my share of such having lived in a “Communist Country” – you know which one 😉
let’s be very clear here…the average public DOES NOT put Dm in the same catagory as the Dali Lama, or the Pope or any other religious leader, in fact …we would like to know who besides him has put him in that catagory…do u really think us non scientologist cant figure it out???? and see him for the creep he is …no religious leader would act like he does…no religious leader will rot longer in hell than him ..with maybe the exception of David Karesh or Jim Jones…it’s not puzzeling to us non scientologist at all…the only thing puzzeling us..is how many people fall for this bs..there are a lot of lonley vulnerable people out there and this creep and his “church minions” have taken advantage of everyone of them…he’s backed into a corner now…be careful he doesn’t decide to throw a big party with kool aid for everyone…we all know how that ended!!!!