Mike Rinder on The Edge

274 responses to “Mike Rinder on The Edge

  1. Heard it live, Mike! Excellent job of communicating the truth! 😉 Why’d ya have to choose shoveling (blank) in Louisiana?! LMAO

    • 😆 Haven’t we been blanked on enough?
      I did really love the interview and was impressed with your lack of Scientologese…truly excellent job, like I said!

      • Thanks Tara.

      • Tara, I’m sure he meant to say Texas not Lusyanna.

        • Sarge, I’m sure you’re right!🙂

        • I just want the beatings to stop!

          Mike,
          Amazing Interview. Since being Declared, I had 2 people really attack me hard and called me a squirrel and such.

          I sent them this audio link and said
          “LRH WOULD BE SO DISAPPOINTED IN YOU FOR SUPPORTING DM, THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SUPPORTING!! IT IS NOT SCIENTOLOGY!”

          And I didn’t know Tommy Davis blew in 07!! Shouldn’t he be in the HOLE?!

        • Sarge, bite your tongue!!

          • The little one only speaks the name of the great Tejas in hushed and respectful tones, the little one would never speak it in vain.

            Senior “nalgas rojas del rosey que han sido violadas por un hombre grande” would never be foolish enough to exile anyone of strength or ability to this great state, even if beaten down, as the sun, wind and earth of this land will give them such strength that they mount the little one on the tip of their pointed cowboy boot.

    • I am very glad Tara, that these people from INT {including Mike Rinder} are coming forward and explaining their reasons why they feel the Church of Scientology is no longer the place for them.

      But most of all, without being selfish in any way, I am very glad that when I was in Scientology I never bossed, bullied or abused anybody. I just kind of kept to my self.

      It makes leaving a lot easier.

      • Lawrence, Ya know that is something I can be proud of. I never abused anyone even though I was pushed to do so. LRH would never do so and neither did I.

        • Every time you turn your head these days someone else is leaving the church, for a good reason, for a bad reason, for a valid reason, for some reason or for any reason!

          Nope. Never. Not even today would it occur to me to “smack my fellow Scientologist through a plate glass window after telling him off!’

          Not me and not for me.

          • Lawrence, It’s called respect. Unfortunately its absent in DMs
            ‘Church’.

            • A while back, a long time ago, I was part of a group at an event that received some Class XII auditing from a Class XII auditor that was on tour in New York.

              One of the commands was “Give the person next to you something you cannot go home without”.

              I did. And then the person gave it back later.

              But when I left Scientology, I just did it, because there wasn’t anyone or anything there I could not go home without. And today there still isn’t.

              Congratulations to that Class XII.

      • Thought Provoking

        I was told many times by my senior that I was too nice and encouraged to be “tougher”. She liked to yell and scream profanities, her duplication of talk derogatorily about someone in their presence. I was made an example of often, in front of my juniors. I never was able to be “tough” like her, just the thought of it made me feel out of valence and I couldn’t.

        My juniors were bright enough to have their own opinion. One night, one of them came in with an LRH quote, given to her by her father and read it to me and some of the others in my division. I don’t remember the quote but it was something along the line of introducing getting things done “being tough” and ended with how it is much better to be nice. Then my juniors each told me how much they liked me and that I was the best boss they ever had.

  2. Mike, I thought your interview was outstanding. Very well done my friend.
    You came across as sincere and very believable. Its because you told the Truth! My friend Sam asked me to write about DM and Karen 1 sent me an
    interogatory about him. Because I never worked for the man I didn’t think I had much to offer, definately not compared to what others went through but maybe I can come up with some behind the scenes stuff that may help fill in things about him I observed while he was Pat Broekers toady.
    Much Love

    • Thanks Sarge. I appreciate your kind words.

    • Sarge,
      Totally agree, a posting is way overdue on that. There’s only you, JB and myself to come up with our own stories on those days where Dear Leader was a toady to Big P and being a brown nose subservient little Junior.

      Mike,
      I posted this on the thread yesterday, before this one came out and would like to repost it here:

      Mike,
      Just finished listening to your interview on radio in Tampa.
      Wow, you have outdone yourself and it was very informative, truth revealing hour! You have painted a very detailed picture of the true Dear Leader which many don’t know about! Congratulations for a job totally and supremely well done!

      • Thanks a lot Sinar. Still looking forward to the rack of lamb. We will make it happen…

      • Sinar, Thank you buddy. I have nothing but contempt for DM. Unlike you and JB I never had DM as a boss. To me he was just a smart ass little punk who thought he was better than anyone else. Every chance he got he tried to make me look bad, but only when others were around. One on one he tried to be my friend. Never happened! ASSHOLE!

        • Theo Sismanides

          Sarge, that says a lot to me.

          DM never got the loyal officers of LRH. They never considered him the boss but a little punk. That says a lot, I say again.

      • Gary Morehead a.k.a Jackson

        Sinar & Mike,

        Is there room for 1 more, I’d love to join you both on the Lamb… And maybe have a glass of Chianti!

        Mike, after listening I felt as though I was sitting in as a member of a committee of evidence hearing testimony. I am not kidding!

        Thank my friend! Thank You!

        — Jackson

  3. Mike it was not a freeway in Buffalo. They built a parking ramp. I used to go to that org. It was about a disaster on the 3 and 4th floors. Often it had no electric or heat. They even had cats on the upper floors and they had me to do conditions and that is what I found. As well as trash was pilled to the sky.

    Stupid is stupid I was then. I was very stupid.

  4. Mike, I heard it live as well. Flawless.
    You mention the 3 people who came to see you after Panorama who didnt want to hear your views. But yet they came. Any more on that you would like to share?

  5. Mike- I managed to listen live and am listening again as I type.

    You have delivered an outstanding interview and thank you for continuing to give such an honest and professional representation of Scn and Dianetics. In one short hour you covered a lot of ground. Also, the (young?) man, Tom, that interviewed you was well prepared. It flowed very well.

    And how appropriate that you put the IAS and HASI in their rightful perspectives on the eve of DM’s “beauty pageant”.

    This interview will travel far and wide with desirable effects. In fact I sense Lil’ Führer could be a little distracted this weekend. I wonder if Dan Sherman might incorporate a response into DM’s keynote speech. In fact it could start out this way (with thanks to Daffy)………

    • Thanks Tom. I hope it reaches beyond those who already know (those who read this blog)…

      • No doubt as it’s in MP3 format and us bein’s are a curious lot!

      • Congratulations Mike Rinder.
        This is being Emailed and distributed far and wide by me “Beyond those who already know……”

        It is a Very Well Done Interview ! You explained the FRAUD of the unaccountable IAS in great depth, the 501C3 issues especially clarifying the no-exchange of the IAS and the $93 million sucked in at that single event….

        I was moved to read in a post you did a day or 2 ago about how the Reptilian predator sent you to clean the bilges in FREEWINDS as a punishment solely because you did not leap up fast enough for a standing ovation for him at an INT event.

        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        For readers that don’t know what this entails ~~
        The Bilges, at the lowest point of the ship contains but marine slime, dissolving crud, grease, oil build up, mold, bacteria and even urine can collect in the BILGES. It has an extremely foul smell, and when the wind shifts when you are on a ship, a FOUL ODOR comes up from the BILGES.
        Because the Reptilian Predator DM enjoys SADISM and BRUTALITY and long duration pain and suffering, he has had Mike Rinder, Heber Jentzsch (at 75 yrs old) Mark Yager
        and a host of other INT EXECs “clean” the bilges all day long weeks and weeks at a time.

        Mike, your tolerance for abuse was very very high because of your dedication to LRH and the legacy. It is so very cool to know that you are now in a position to TELL IT LIKE IT IS. Sunshine does disinfect.

        You nailed it that DM’s supreme arrogance wants nothing more than to be thought of as a HERO with AWE and RESPECT.

        But thanks to M and M and others, he will have a legacy of being thought of as the AL CAPONE of Religious leaders.
        Even to date, there are more references on the web, more You Tube videos, more TV shows and other media of Miscavige thuggery, his beatings, his assaults, his abuse, his SP Hole and other DM atrocities than any other person currently alive !

        Google
        David Miscavige Abuse
        18,000 hits

        and this is without a change in wording such as
        “David Miscavige Beatings,”
        “David Miscavige Assaults, ”
        “David Miscavige punishments”
        and so on.

        In many ways DM legacy will be far worse than Saddam Hussein or someone who was a complete brute but had no knowledge of the TECH.
        The dark dark Blackness of Miscavige is that he had availability of the tech and chose to pursue an EVIL path in spite of the tech at his fingertips

        Thank you Mike and Marty for exposing the DM atrocities which might be getting him to slow it down. Thanks for having an Ethics presence against someone so out of control.

    • “And how appropriate that you put the IAS and HASI in their rightful perspectives on the eve of DM’s “beauty pageant”.”

      EXACTLY

    • Tom, I heard DM is practicing Zen. I think him have an MU?

      • Sarge,

        In the case of Lil’ Boy Wonder I submit that MU is an acronym for “Mucked Up”!

        ML, Tom Gallagher

      • Scientoglogy equals Zen equals auditing equals meditation equals relieve. For everybody else these things must be inhibited because nobody can be better than Der Leader. And he can only use Zen to suppress his mental suffering as Scientology won’t permit him to keep his precious O/W’s and real estate.

      • Sarge,
        Probably his version it, which involves holding to some grounding rods.

  6. I listened. It was good. I was impressed that you publicly thanked Tom Smith for helping to expose the abuses of the Church of Scientology.

    Very well done, Mr. Rinder!

    I, of course, would have liked to hear much more dirt and evidence of felonious activities, and much more about the sexual depravities that DM obsesses about, but that’s just my position on the tone scale.

    However, evidence showing DM’s financial irregularities that would endanger the Church’s 5013C status, and possibly put DM in jail, were a pretty damn good substitute, I must say.

    And I have to say this as a critic for more than 10 years: it was great to hear Mike Rinder exposing the abuses and the lies being told by the Church of Scientology. I will now sit down on my couch and take a short break, and maybe have a snack and a light refreshment over that.

    Keep up the great work, Mike Rinder. You will get your family back, and this whole thing is going to work out.

    You are doing the right thing.

    Thank you.

    Allen Stanfield
    “Alanzo”

    • I agree with Alanzo – re your children. It will take time but if you don’t ever give up finding ways to let them know that you love them, eventually, in time, they will respond. The sad thing is that it is impossible to know how much time will be required. Find ways to send them messages on their birthdays, on holidays, etc. Even if you know they won’t get them, do it anyway and keep a record. Many of us go through tough times with our kids … it is hard and heartbreaking, but don’t give up, for their sake. And more importantly, for your own.

      Somehow, they will know how deeply you love them. There are so many of us — who are also parents — out here who are total strangers who are rooting for you and all the other scientology families who have been wounded by the madness.

      • Oh yeah, write letters and send them even if they are stopped by HCO – and make photocopies to keep to give them when they are finally allowed to contact you and accept letters.

  7. Excellent, all round. Very sharp radio host as well. Mike you are clear, articulate, honest, and you really can communicate.

    So. There is a lot of talking and talk about David Miscavige. It is very, very telling that David Miscavige himself never gets out there and communicates. He is out of communication with the world. He can only communicate internally in carefully controlled, stage-managed situations. And of course within his own power base, where he abuses. When it comes to communicating with the outside world, he sends vias to communicate on his behalf, while he hides.

    You on the other hand are in communication (very good communication) with the world.

    Not too difficult to see how this is going to turn out.

    Well done, congratulations, and thank you, Mike!

  8. Excellent work, Mike – thanks for posting, Marty.

  9. Great interview Mike! It was obvious you were being truthful and Tom’s introduction of your bio/resume was a very good lead-in to the interview.He deserves a lot of credit too.

    Thank you very much!

  10. Mike,
    That was the best articulation of the issues you went through and of the current scene with the Church I have listened to, to date. This is important for us all. I hope you will continue to enlighten us.

    We all have a hell of a lot of exchange to put in with you.

    Centurion

  11. Theo Sismanides

    Excellent and flawless job Mike, you are back on the PR lines of the World. The Indies are happy…🙂

  12. Thanks Mike & to Marty for communicating it via this site.
    It may be an electronic media that joins us but it nice to be with friends and allies, it means alot.

  13. Thank you very very much Mark for the exellent job on the interview you gave in regards to the account of the Church of Scientology.
    I also was quite impressed with the interviewer, I liked his style
    giving you Max Coverage to Speak and get as much detail information on air as possible Great Great Job .

  14. What a most excellent Radio Talk Show !!!

    Crystal Clear Stereo Sound too.

    Well done, Mike.

  15. Superb interview, great information about the bizarre DeMon for the world to hear, and the IAS status of …gluteus maximus, hahaha!

  16. Mike you da man!!!!!

    Loved the interview.

    You know when we were still on lines I thought you were one of the coolest people in the Church even though you were working for OSA.

    I was so happy when you decided like many of us to get the f*ck outta Dodge and join the rest of us out here.

    Great program.

    Ml

    RJ

  17. Great job Mike, Thank You.

  18. Mike – Wonderful interview. I will also do what I can to see that this information is spread far and wide so more people discover the truth.

    Regarding the lack of new orgs, they’ve factually been going backwards since Miscavige started consolidating orgs to create his “ideal” monstrosities. For example Las Vegas Day, Las Vegas Foundation and CC Las Vegas were 3 orgs (albeit small), now one “ideal” organization (from reports I’ve seen, an empty morgue). The same “strategy” was applied in Copenhagen/Denmark, in Dallas, in Portland and I don’t know where else. Closing any org (even combining Day/Foundation) is classified as a suppressive act per the policy on org eradication. The last NEW orgs to open were Moscow and St. Petersburg when you were WDC Chairman and I was WDC Scientology in 2002.

    • Thanks Amy. You are of course right about LV, Copenhagen and Ptl. In fact, I think the last new org was Athens. Then agan, there are other “orgs” like Canberra and Bulawayo that exist in name only. I dont think you could find them at all, but maybe there is a person that collects the mail or something. There are some others in Canada that I dont know about — Hamilton and Windsor I think? But ballparking it — the total number of orgs around the world is the same today as it was in 1985. And that’s not talking missions — in the late 70’s Rverside Mission alone had well over 100 staff and more than a dozen tech trainees at Flag! DC Org in the early 70s was doing nearly 1000 hours a week n the HGC (before Purif) and had hundreds n the Academy. The story is virtually endless.

      • How many total Scientologists are there in the world?

        I’ve heard it was less than 50,000.

        Is that true, Mike?

        • Probably less than that. It is very difficult to define, but if you took everyone that is an IAS member — of whatever status — that would be a fair gauge. I believe that figure is around 40,000 at most.

          • If 40,000 people each donated 25,000.00 you’d have the 1 billion IAS dollars right there.

            Even if we super-rounded up to 100,000 people who call themselves Scientologists, there’s not a person on-lines right now who would believe the number could possibly be that low.

            A friend cane back from the last Auditors Day event and said sincerely “in the past 12 months there has been 1 million new Scientologists”. No kidding!

            Mike, the interview was superb. Best one I’ve seen or heard yet. You answered so many questions of mine, I was riveted to it.

            Tommy D really BLEW back then???? Have I not been paying attention? This is the first I’ve heard of it!

            • First,
              “in the past 12 months there has been 1 million new Scientologists”
              Perhaps some of these event goers have flunked their math or have not really applied their observation skills which is not connected to their audio data perceptions.
              -If there are about 150 orgs, then you would see over 6,000 in each of them, which from various observations of idle orgs is bunk.
              -Perhaps there’s a new definition such as hits on their site making new Scientologists?
              -Played videos on their FART div 6 implant machines?

        • I am off load of a realtivly big old org since 92-93.act as an acknowledgment about my own perceptions or conclusions- My puzzle is ressembling a whole image now
          I knew all the scientologis at that time!
          Recently I found traces of an IAS reg event – for The Idle Org Project –
          and I have been really surprised to see the names of the donators- there were all old scientologists that I know for more than 20 years.

          There was far less people though than 20 years ago-
          a lot blew – or are old- or gone- sp declared – off lines ’cause of tout-tech -sick or dead!
          So I concluded that there was about 20% of the amount of people or donators that there was for an IAS event at that time – when people still had some money – house- or a car!

          But was very surprise that there was almost no new names :O
          So I would guess that around 50,000 would not be far from the account!

          What was the figure around 1990 ??? How much scientologists or IAS worlwide?

          To Alanzo:

          I’ve read a lot of your posts and long ”old” stories on some message boards and websites all over the week – in search of the truth concerning LRH – and the before DM era – how LRH really was – what he really did – The best and the worst in all aspect of his life –
          None of that old PR shit or silence or mystery – but just how it was and went at that time!
          It help me to reconstructs some part to acheive an honnest doubt condition with a new sight on scientology and Ron history missing parts that I was searching !

          What you , and some others gave as informations – stories – documentation – really were of a help about what was the situation at the first beginning – and then on – before – after DM etc..without any attemps to hide anything or make some situations appear to look better or worst than it was from your recall.

          Many thank’s God bless you!
          Arc
          Lotus😉

          Good interview Mr Rinder- well done and many thank’s!

          • Thought Provoking

            Lotus,
            Interesting that you estimated 20% of the public were still there. That must be the 20% that didn’t handle or disconnect.

            • Sorry about the first part of my post – a bit confused as a part is missing!

              Anyway, I came to this figure of about and a generous 20% of scientologists compare to 1990 this way:

              I got acces online to a complete figure of a IAS event and donations , about 2 years ago ,
              It was about to raise money for a wonderful project to help free the human race and provide them with the golden knowlegre and may be next – the platininium – gold plated – yer sir – truth,😀

              wich consist of buying old empty building to deliver it , this only one chance in this lifetime , in this universe, within this galaxy… So there was all the names and donations with new patron status..WOW…I WANT ONE NEW status.. ;D
              And was surprise to not be able to find a new name unknown to me and recognized all the others (from 20 years ago)
              so I could estimate this list represent roughly about 20% of the IAS donators people ot that time I could recal!

              So I figure is that there has been probably 80% gone –
              I cannot figure out how scientologist – very good people though will pay to maintain this building and pay for billions of dollars of renovations it needs. Poor scientologists..bancrupties are to be expected again!

              To Alanzo:

              When a person exposes a really bad situation after running out of it – and begins the story with an honnest confession of his own failures – and involvment – without any attempt to minimize or justification
              I mean — without any attempt to minimize or justify it –
              it then appears to me there is nothing left to hide as responsibility has benn taken! That’s simple!
              The intention is clear to me – provide with available information .
              But a part of the scientology story is being refused to be looked or even considered for possible from some scientologists- I think part of it migh be explained by what buddhism relate as cause of suffering = attachment and fear to be free of attachement.

              * I have laughed – reading your biography and story –
              it’s funny with the little pictures and self-talk of ”I am gonna save this planet – Oh I met an operting thetan..wow” lol

              it’s funny , reading you, how I could recall my own ”stupidy” for searching my freedom through sacred scriptures of a holly master…and…to encounter people with secrets magic powers..
              you know I have touch some…yeah…lol

              Anyway – this really act to me as a mirror to show me my own stupidity and let go last bit of charges! If my old friends could be see just a bit of it within themselves..but they are only talking about policies and quotes…(it remembers me of georges Orwell 1884…) you know?…I feel like they are robots and I shut my mouth till they are ready for the real stuff and internet OT voyage – the truth rundown! Where is Charly ???? (Charly being the int management bodies attached to a thetan – only one I mean – only one body attached to a thetan..hum… ..I am not sure..I forgot..)
              I am a new solo nuts .. ;D

              to dedramatise is the cure to any dramatisation LCO bulletin (Lotus communication office bulletin)
              ARC
              Lotus

              • If your read LRH Policy, you know that LRH would have spent the bulk of the money on promotion – and most for books. And it wouldn’t have been some cheesy, Mad Magazine crap like psychiatrists yelling at brains. It would have been some class, effective stuf the likes of which Jeff Hawkins, Ronnie Miscavige, Bill Dendiu, Jimmy Yeoh, Mark McKinstry, Steve Hall, et al could crank out in their sleep.

          • Thanks, Lotus.

            Despite all accusations to the contrary, my purpose as a critic of Scientology is and always has been to provide information people need to make informed decisions about their own involvement in Scientology.

            A person must know the risks, as well as the benefits, of signing billion year contracts, paying hundreds of thousands of dollars of his money for Bridge services and IAS donations, giving his children up to the Sea Org, etc,.

            Scientology has traditionally hid these risks, lied about them, and then blamed the individual for the consequences.

            This is absolutely wrong, and even criminal in many cases.

            As an ex-ED of the frikking Peoria, IL mission, I had no business becoming a critic. I had no standing, no media relations, nothing that would ever allow me to be effective. But someone had to do it. And so I did – for the good of others who might be harmed by the wall of secrecy that Scientology upheld and enforced with fair game and disconnection and so many other tools of destruction.

            I never did anything that amounted to much importance.

            But I never quit, either.

            Now that Mike and Marty and so many others with much more standing than I ever had have started to take up this fight to reform Scientology, and to expose its lies, and to give people the information they need to make informed decisions about their own involvement in Scientology, I am feeling more and more at ease with letting them get on with the job.

            Because in the end, it really always was their job to do this in the first place. And never mine.

            Unless, of course you consider that I am part of the human race.

            Then it was always my job.

            And yours, too.

            Allen Stanfield
            “Alanzo”

      • Great interview Mike, nicely done and very credible.

        I’d like to confirm your assessment of the Riverside Mission. I was on lines there during that time period and your numbers are correct. There were 6 Sups in the Comm Course alone because there were so many public. There are Orgs today that don’t have as many public in Div 6 as Riverside had Comm Course Supervisors. It was a great place to be in Scientology, right up until the Finance Police destroyed it.

        Keep up the good work.

    • Climbing a 9' High Board Fence

      New orgs, a far cry from 79 & 80 when WUS grew from 19 orgs to 34 and OTL LATAM was put there (later to become CLO LATAM. Export of how this was being done was passed to CO EU Guillaume Lesevre from CO WUS Guy White and the birthday game of expansion was on.

  19. Great job Mike. You came across as knowledgeable, calm and articulate……in other words, sane.

    Interesting comment from the host on the Stanford Prison experiment.

    • Dominating others or the ability/Urge theretoo is a crude survival technique/tool. We all haver it in us. It just needs to be rekinndles/restimulated in some way or triggered if you will.

  20. Thought Provoking

    Having trouble downloading, even went to his site directly. Any suggestions?

  21. Mike,
    All those years ago, I postulated, hoped, I actually at one point prayed, I would hear what I heard today. You have brought me (again) to tears of joy.

    • Thanks Jim, that means a lot to me. Mike

    • Jim,

      Thanks for the succinct summation. The dam’s leaks can no longer be effectively plugged. Let it rip.

      I share your joy. Even a tear.

      ML, Tom Gallagher

      • Tom,
        I don’t think we’ve ever met, but since my postulates stick I’m sure we will.

        Listening to Mike today, witnessing this blog, reconnecting to the men and women I worked with and dreamed with, it is very real to me, with the basic nature of beings the world over and the real truth that is this subject, the words of When You Need Reassurance:

        “In Scientology just remember this when all looks dark:
        IT WILL ALL COME OUT ALL RIGHT”

  22. Beautiful job, Mike.
    There is such an abundance of ground to cover, but you and Tom hit the hottest buttons.
    Anyone who can exercise some logic while listening, will surely understand the points you made.
    While Tom and I were listening, he would say nod and say “I’ve seen that”, or “I’ve seen DM do that”, or ‘that’s exactly what he does.”
    This is the education the public need — in terms they can duplicate. Explaining how ‘it took so long’ for you (or for anyone) to exit was clear and something any sentient being could relate to.
    You handled the questions so well and all of us indies can use it as hatting, so thanks for all of that and well done.
    Linda

  23. Excellent job Mike,

    You covered all the important bases, the interviewer asked sane questions and got well-thought out answers.

    The references to needing to be on late night cable were brilliant! No need to repeat DMs foul words, the listener got exactly what you meant. But for me the most telling part is right at the end, about how the IAS’s money is used. No, I’m not going to spoil it for everyone else – you’ll have to listen for yourselves!

    You know as well as I do how the church paints us “SP”s who leave – foul-mouthed, frothing, drooling DBs who’ve joined the walking dead because of all their finance irregs against the church, blah, blah, blah… Well anyone with a shred of decency left in them and at least some ability to NOT thought-stop must be able to see that’s not quite the case here. This is a sensible, reasonable man clearly and with ARC laying out how it is and how DMs empire works, not a raving “SP!” lunatic.

    Some part of that interview will strike home, whether the incessant regging, the pointless annual beauty pageant, no new orgs in 25 years or *something* else you covered. It’s only a matter of time now.

  24. mrinder wrote ” Thanks Tom. I hope it reaches beyond those who already know (those who read this blog)…”

    YES – it is reaching outsiders!! Before a week+ ago I was not following any of the numerious threads or news on Scientology. A news item re “dispute” between Florida Fed & State judges opened the door for me. I am not nor do I know any Scientoligist – but due that artical and now especially Marty’s blog (hope first name is appropriate) – I am now reading everything I can, as far back as I can. In short I AM hearing about it. From what I observe, I very much believe that the subject is opening up and spreading to those who never had exposure. Thank you all!!! Landon

  25. Mike, I just listened to your radio program….well done! You came across very well and very calm . Thank you for speaking out.

  26. Great interview Mike, crystal clear in your reasoning and great presence.

  27. Spectacular interview, Mike. 100% accurate and incredibly well spoken.

  28. one of those who see

    Not done listening yet, but wanted to write. Mike Rinder – unedited!! Perfection. Thank you for providing such clarity to the scene. Standing Ovation.
    And just as an aside – it is really just wonderful to hear your voice. While listening I had a picture just flash of you in uniform standing at the podium speaking to all of us.
    Thank you with all my heart for being there for us once again.
    You said to your family that you are trying to save them. One day soon they will get it, as all of us here do.

  29. Big Thanks to Tom Smith for doing all these years of interviews!

    Tom got so much on the air when media wasn’t willing to cover it.

    One question Mike,

    Do you think the “Knowledge Reports” PL is in ANY way the policy which relates to this group mindset to put in ethics on the supposed “bad hats” on staff?

    I’ve speculated that Miscavige has simply due to his own personality, directly misapplied Knowledge Reports, and misapplied also the comment in one of the 1982 Stat Replies from LRH to Int Management, where LRH, I paraphrase commented “….and if you see John Aczel [then WDC SMI] spit on him for me….” ( a comment NO person would take literally, LRH was being totally figurative, just like LRH is being figurative on “Knowledge Reports” when he speaks that in ethics staff would give a fellow staff member a black eye were that fellow staff member to be sticking pins in other staff).

    LRH’s figurative language I merely saw being taken to extreme literalness by DM.

    Do you recall around 1982, since that is the time when LRH wrote that stat response to Int Management with the comment about “….and if you see John Aczel, spit on him for me…..” and 1982 is the time Knowledge Reports came out, and I think, personally, THAT is the key time that DM took license to misuse these LRH comments.

    Thanks so much Mike.

    Chuck

    • Chuck – Are you sure it wasn’t Roger Barnes? I believe it was Roger Barnes. I heard that John Aczel was told to take off his glasses and punched by DM. I’m not sure John was over SMI. I know Roger was.

      • I asked Roger, he was CO SMI or CO WISE at the time, with John Aczel holding WDC WISE, and BOTH got punched and spit on. Roger confirmed this incident, and of course moved on, and is doing well today.

        John Aczel is OUT of the PAC RPF, I saw a photo of him from 2009, I think John’s in Estates for the HGB.

        But if you saw that particular 1982 stat analysis response from LRH, I confirmed with several WDC members who also read it, that LRH names John Aczel by name, like I paraphrased.

        I so wish we had access to the INCOMM computer system of ALL of LRH’s writings, including the stat analyses of the final years, and ALL of LRH’s despatches and “advices” (orders) of his final years, and ALL of those taped discette’s from which ALL of LRH’s final years of thoughts in his own voice, were recorded.

        But even LRH said NOT to release all that stuff, since it was just him talking and chatting and commenting, and from that taped stuff he recorded his orders on, from those tapes, which I believe Suzy Bennet and Ted Karbowski in the early 1980s did MOST of the transcribing of the comments LRH meant for Int Management, I WISH we had that stuff to look at and listen to.

        In it, I think we’d heard just how irrate, or not, LRH was, when he actually SAID the statement I paraphrased above “….and if you see John Aczel, spit on him for me….”, which it is my opinion is the comment that DM took literally and dished out the punching and spitting on both John and on Roger and possible at more than one instance for John Aczel, since I have heard a different version of the incident on John from both Jesse Prince and from Larry Brennan.

        I like to pick these incidents apart, and I’d like someday to HEAR that taped comment which was transcribed into that Int Stat analysis, so we hear just what LRH said, and in any case, I highly doubt LRH meant for anyone to spit on John OR Roger. My opinion LRH was being figurative, and others have stated, and I agree, that the info LRH was being given at that time, was so incompetently presented to LRH, and even thought LRH liked to state no one could fool him by bad relay of info to him, I think he’s human and obviously could be fooled by bad info.

        Yea, I think I might have the SMI and WISE sectors mixed up on John.

        But I absolutely saw the advice, and searched and re-read it a couple time, since to me, it was a bit of a breaking point, making me think less of LRH for even being that figurative about John Aczel, who is a really milktoast nice guy who in NO case deserved that type of “calling on the carpet” treatment by anyone. I have a whole different more negative feeling for LRH’s harsh ethics attitude but that’s not the point either.

        I still don’t think LRH would want people to be spitting on each other, nor literally slugging each other and producing black eyes, even though LRH DID write figuratively (my opinion) that doing these behaviors was the right thing to do.

        Can you email me privately, I’d like to email chat with you privately.
        chuckbeatty77@aol.com

        • Chuck,
          You seem particularly fixated on the Aczel incident. It is like tidal wave after tidal wave passes and you’ve got your eye stuck on some ripple. I genuinely recommend some attention spanning work. If you find Scientology processing too frightening then perhaps some regular walks really noticing the environment.
          Marty

          • The John Aczel incident is relevant to Sea Org violence history, since what preceded the spitting and punching of John and Roger were writings by LRH, even though I think any sane person would NOT have taken LRH’s writings literally.

            The John Aczel incident is preceded by LRH writings, that is relevant, and getting the participants who were there to possibly recall if and how DM might have justified the slugging and spitting on John and Roger, is historically relevant.

            I’m a meter reader Marty, I walk each week to thousands of houses, walk about 5 miles a day, all over and up and down the beautiful Pittsburgh region rivers:

  30. Start booking the shows! very well done and you truly are a well trained PR who should keep doing it day in and day out as a full time profession regardless of the cause, whether it is speaking out against the abuses of Dave Miscaviage or some other personal cause!

  31. Mike, an excellent and totally professional interview. All your training and native theta came through wonderfully.

    Your full explanation of a few key points, rather than a shallow broadshot, hits home hard. Anyone listening comes off that inteview with a very clear and distinct understanding of what the issues are.

    I’d like to hear you some day on a radio call in show, with some OSA wanna-be-a-thug calling in to try and dead agent you. Now that would be performance art at it’s best!

    I guess you are now our public spokesman! We couldn’t do better, that’s for sure!

  32. Good job, Mike. I can’t begin to imagine the regret you and so many others now feel for protecting a psycho like David Miscavige. I do understand the fear behind it, though.

    The mental instability, paranoia and sickness inside the dude is growing by the minute. I hope that after others listen to this interview, they’ll gain courage and are moved to speak out about their own abuse or abuse they witnessed at the hands of David Miscavige and his flunkies. I mean, EVERYBODY can’t be lying, can they? It’s the only pitiful defense they have

    • What is with all this blame, shame and regret business on the blog tonight? Weird

      • Marty — it is a celebration of our common humanity! Seriously, only a psychopath never feels a sense of shame, regret or genuine humility. Particularly those of us who have lived past adolescence and are here to tell the stories and to show the scars. We are all, as fellow human travelers, scientologist and non-scientologist alike able to embrace the remarkable human ability to learn and to grow, and to survive, no matter what!

        Kudos to Mike for his raw, vulnerable, real telling of how it is and was for him, as well as yours and the many many others who speak on this forum. As a non-scientologist, it is daily inspiration to me. As F. Scott Peck said in the first sentence of his book, “The Road Less Travelled” “Life is hard.” And yes it is, but ain’t it also grand? This blog is a tribute to the grandness of the human spirit. IMHO.

      • Thank you Marty! For some reason I sometimes forget to not do the shame, blame and regret thing.

      • Regret? Nah, I’m having fun.

        Shame? not really.

        Blame? Yea a bit, but really if I had personally been a bit more responsible and in the game…wouldn’t need to.

        Heres some nice photos of a guy who was in the game…

        http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=184881&id=628233910

        (you’ll need to have a facebook account)(not my pages..)(sorry tommy)

        Remember how fun it was?
        🙂

        • Just look at the dude, how he smiles, how he is so obviously in touch with the others in the photo. Playing the drums, smiling for the camera. It was real, and can be again when our focus is off of some minor despot and back on the game.

          I would dare Miscavige to look at these photos of Ron. Its time for David Miscavige to come to present time for long enough to realize where he is, and step aside. Perhaps tonight at the IAS event, as he looks out into the audience of cowed “parishioners” and shills, just for a moment he will realize that he has gone astray, grown tired of the struggle, and give it up.

          Or we can just go our own way and flourish and prosper, and let history forget the little men and remember the big ones.

          • Perhaps some brave soul, the next time they are in front of Miscavige, will simply get his attention, snap their fingers loudly and give him the command, “Come up to present time!”

            Might work.

        • What great photos – thanks for posting this link.

          Alanzo will probably argue that these photos were doctored, as they are flattering to LRH. And we can’t have any of that, can we?

          Sorry for the 1.1 remark. His pompous, self-serving remarks above really irritated me.

      • Probably “Survivor Guilt” syndrome, Marty.

        These same people probably also wonder why “Has a withhold been missed?” always reads on them.

        Only half kidding here…

        Scott

      • Is it because druging company profits in 2009=837 billion. Forecasting for one trillion per annum.

        A Doomed planet

  33. Before I read any comments – I just listened to the interview and want to say to Mike:

    Good God, man, that was fantastic. You nailed it and you so rock! You are wonderfully articulate and your genuine passion and credibility were so clearly communicated.

    It was such a pleasure to hear more of your first hand knowledge whistle blowing. Thank you, thank you, thank you for continuing to speak out.

  34. Mike — I love watching/hearing you take your own voice back. Each time you speak, I hear more and more of an authentic voice–a voice of authenticity.

    Congratulations.

    Also, I encourage you to read Robert Vaughn Young’s account of meeting a woman who was a victim.survivor of domestic violence and abuse. As a survivor of domestic violence myself, I particularly related to your sense of embarressment that you [sic] “didn’t wake up sooner than you did.” That is a common feeling for those who have been routinely abused (and slapping is often the most common form assault). I think it is hard for a lot of men to “admit” to this, but it would also be instructive to read the writings of Jewish survivors of Nazi concentration camps such as Viktor Frankel, Eli Weisel, or Primo Levi.

    Also, women who have had the misfortune of surviving domestic violence understand the experience that everything you do directly affects the abuser. Even the most mundane details are somehow construed as personal affronts, and thus, require vengeance or “correction” (punishment).

  35. Mike you shoot- you score!!!
    Awesome job!!

  36. Thank you Mike, so many good parts to this discussion. I especially appreciated the discourse on David Miscavage’s misuse of IAS and church funds.
    g

  37. Climbing a 9' High Board Fence

    Mike, congratulations on a great interview. I had a thought, do we have anywhere a list of those physically, emotionally, mentally and or spiritually abused by Little Napoleon? This could be added to with first hand reporting and on having observed it done to others whether out of the SO or still in. Those still in or silenced by payoff or “legal” documents need not be forgotten. Time, Place, Form and Event can be put there. Not only will it make it easier to answer the question of How many people or How Many Times, but im sure can be used for many other actions and processes to right things very wrong.

  38. Thanks for doing this ‘The Edge with Tom Smith’ interview, Mike. It was very insightful and helpful; your candor and humility were evident throughout. I look forward to listening to more interviews on more specific subjects, soon. Thanks to Tom for making this happen🙂

  39. Mike,
    This interview was a “slam dunk”! Gonna make this short and sweet. I agree with all the positive feedback you’ve received. They say timing is everything. Gotta love it!

  40. Dear Mike,
    You did a superlative job on this interview. Calm, sane, articulate and very likable! When you spoke of the reasons you endured David Miscavige’s physical violence toward you, it was very enlightening. Your comparison of people dying for their religion, historically, was brilliant. Your candid honesty, especially in reference to that earlier interview where you had denied, being physically assaulted, was heartfelt and came across beautifully. I’m sure as I write my response to your post, this interview is being forwarded far and wide. This is a milestone. The charade will soon end!

  41. Thought Provoking

    Arghh! I still can’t get the link to work! But I wanted to say thank you Mike for all that you are doing!

  42. So, so, so, so, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo damn good!
    Believe me, this is going to make the rounds far beyond this blog. Any
    media interested in finding out about what is going on with Scientology now knows where to go. Damn, that was good. Thanks, Mike.

  43. Great interview. Keep on fighting the good fight. More importantly, keep enjoying your freedom from “the Hole” one day at a time.

  44. Absolutely amazing rendition of the state of affairs and the progessive demise of the Church as a result of DM. Beautifully communicated without even a BLIP or HE&R, this alone says volumes for any doubters. Imagine DM doing the same radio show, why he’d probably scream at the host maybe even slap him and stomp off stage, it would be impossible to have a sane conversation. Mike VVVWD, you are a voice of sanity and reason.

    • That thought brought a smile to my face CR.

      Interviewer to DM: “So, about these beatings, dozens of people have now given first-hand testimony, that you…

      DM (interrupting): “You c*** sucking piece of S***. I am the Only One, didn’t those f***ing motherf***ing c***s tell you? They’re all f***ing a**holes, lying, incompetent f***ers. You’re so f***ing glib man. Just listen to the c*** sucking f***ers talk. Can’t you tell they are all a bunch of useless P****s? What the f*** is wrong with you?

      Interviewer: “Well, strong words, but…”

      DM: (turning to imaginary friend): “You see? You see how this c*** talks back to me? Not even Jesus would dare talk to me like that. You c***…”

      Interviewer “Yes, I get the idea, but did you or didn’t you beat any of your staff?”

      DM: (inching forward to Interviewer): “I can smell Black PR a mile off, you generality-infested ass****. You, sh***head, will be flipping burgers in MacDonalds for the next trillion years.”

      Interviewer: “And now, a word from our sponsors”.

  45. Listening right now to the interview. I am so blown away, happy, delighted, positive adjective ad infinitum with this interview, Mike. VWD!! Interesting to hear about Buffalo as it was my first church and I still have a lot of ARC for the old Buffalo Org, my training and some of my auditing. Keep on keeping on…

    ML,

    Zana~

  46. one of those who see

    Off topic, but need tech advise. I was thinking of doing some TRs with a friend. This friend has a possibly unfinished scn drug rundown (I say possibly because she thought she was done. Org didn’t and the cycle went badly wrong after) Person has been off lines for a few years. I’m also incomplete on a sec check for years. Are TRs ok for us to do. Is there a reference? Thanks!!

  47. Thank you all for the positive feedback, acknowledgements and thanks.
    I apologize to all who have posted that I have not responded to indiividually. It is almost a full time job right now, so I wanted to let all of you know I very much appreciate your support and if I havent responded to you individually it is only for lack of time.
    I do what I believe is right. I am certain that the greatest force for good we have ever known has been hijacked by the biggest SP we are likely to ever come across. Frankly, it is hardly a surprise — enormous good attracts enormous SP.
    Unfortunately, Dear Leader is doing his best to ensure the works of LRH are obliterated, and the ONLY way that can happen is not through an overt assault, but a covert destruction and reversing of the subject.
    Anyone who has been a Scientologist for some time has probably experienced what REAL Scientology is. Every day that passes under the mad dictator that wonderful thing is eroded a little more until it is unrecognizable as the same subject. The decay must be stopped. Scientology must be brought out of its Dark Age and restored to what it was intended to be. The simple test is whether people find it enlightening and enjoyable to participate in it — free from fear and demands to follow the party line. That’s Scientology — not the parody we see today.
    Everyone who partcipates on this blog contributes to accomplishing the objective of restoring Scientology, even if only by increasing your own awareness — but I know many of you do far more than that, and help others find the truth.
    Again, thanks to you all.
    Mike

  48. Mike,

    This is not the first time you have struck me as I am about to describe but I, now, have finally figured out why your communication is so riveting to me.

    You are obviously quite insightful but your forte is your ability to be so very thorough in your articulation of that insight. You do a stellar job at applying the reference on “Viewpoint”. Of course it makes sense that you would have these skills (having been the spokesperson for the church) however, what I hear from you is a very genuine and a very personal and keen understanding of your own awakening.

    Again it was the story of you, “Fact Checker”🙂 that finally gave me the freedom to look. I am very grateful that you finally had the guts to leave.

  49. I love it when Mike mentions “Thought Stopping”.
    What a common denominator used to control a group or individual.

    Great job Mike and Tom Smith!!

    • ….yes – and the reference to Jeff’s extremely good blog.
      Loved that, too – very much! Thank you, Mike and Tom Smith.
      Fidelio

  50. Mike: Well dude, let me know what I can do to help. I’m up here in the Metro DC area. :} Home to some of the Congress’s, PL’s, and HCOB’S….and the very infamous GO. ~

  51. I was doing an ethics handling on a guy in ethics and after 50-100 pages of the most gross 2d ow’s written imaginable with no ethics change, I recommended that he be offloaded immediately…those who doubted my judgement, all I had to do was repeat a couple of those OW’s, turned them into believers immediately. To this day, I do not repeat those OW’s, not wanting to contaminate good minds with the unbelievable. Therefore when Mike says he cannot repeat DM’s vulgarity on a radio show or any show, I can totally relate to that. Just reading DM’s DOX (re Marc & Guillame) was sick enough and I’m sure it gets worse than that and you can only imagine how much was edited out. And to think this kind of verbage coming out of the mind of the leader of the CofS, unfathomable….

  52. How great is it to hear a conversation broadcast that discusses and extols the actual foundation of real Scientology with lucid, accurate common sense? That was fantastic, Mike!

    Wow, as I think about it I realize that this is one of the first times I’ve heard Scientology discussed publicly in a relaxed, frank manner without an additive. The additive was distinctly missing! What was missing? The underlying arrogance and the frenetic assertion (which sadly underlies the comm of even the most well-meaning “insiders”) that the public has come to mistake for Scientology. Here was a discussion that communicated experience and reality minus the zealotry buzz. I’m still basking in a feeling of well-being to have heard that. Mike Rinder, a Scientologist born and true, was welcomed onto a radio show and presented it, and successfully communicated and listened. I loved the distinction between what LRH envisioned for orgs, the differentiation between values, true values, of the spiritual attainments that are the real goal and quest of Scientology, as opposed to the virus that’s feeding on it for material pretense. Bravo, bravo, bravo and Thank You!

    I’ve always loved the idea of Scientology applied rampantly rambunctiously, routinely, rousingly, relaxedly for the fun and wonder it really is. Now that there are places for people to get actual Scientology, it’s not an overt to disseminate anymore🙂

  53. Fantastic job, Mike! What a pleasure to listen, truly. It blew away lies and charge, restored truth allowing us to “move up a little higher.” (Marty, I find myself using this phrase. Just the other eveninng I joined a small group of local spiritually very aware people for dinner and there shared my points of views about life, it slipped from mouth quite naturally…. I had to smile).

    Thanks Mike and Tom of The Edge !! One day we can talk straight Scientology with people without having to disinfect it first from DMs crimes.

  54. Great interview Mike.

    I liked how you detailed Tommy Davis’ blunder regarding David Miscavige’s involvement with church PR and media relations. It was interesting to hear how this brought about your change of heart and subsequent escape from the church.

    Your illustration of the “Heaven and Hell” dichotomy that DM has created since usurping LRH’s position of trust and how it is used to emotionally blackmail and control church members was masterful. Explaining how DM levels accusations of sabotage (in an attempt to destroy him personally) against the executives under him really brought home the vicious and paranoid nature of DM as a being.

    When the host of the show, Tom Smith – asked for your opinion of his psych and clinical term laden analysis of DM and his narcissistic delusions of grandeur, you really distilled it well by pegging DM on the Tone Scale and giving your observations regarding his obsession with sex and money (the pillars of the C of S!). Well done for going on to explain why that does not jibe with the subject of Scientology itself.

    Your history and analysis of the “Ideal Org” program and indication that the “Big Lie” of new buildings = new churches was brilliant. I liked how you also went on to explain the disconnect between the new automated intro videos and actual enlightenment by Scientologists. Your analogy of how “Think for Yourself” has become indoctrinated parroting of lies because of ‘Thought Stopping” and “labeling” of others and items really points up the dangers of how inculcation can serve to suspend one’s ability to think for oneself.

    Finally, your explanation of what the IAS is and how it became a donations only organization created by Miscavige, that confers status on it’s members according to the amount of donations given really came across well. I think the “Patron Gold Star With Knobs On” might have gone over the heads of some “Yanks” though – HA!

    Your breakdown of how the IAS operates and dictates the activities of scientologists by disingenuously baiting them with media capers was a real eye opener. Showing how DM uses the IAS and C of S’s 501 (c) (3) three status’ for personal inurement and unjust enrichment put the icing on the cake.

    Good job Mike. Your calm 8-C, excellent TR’s and natural beingness really shine through in this interview.

    Scott

  55. A brilliant interview! Very interesting to listen to the events leading up to you leaving CofM. I would love to see this in a movie someday.

  56. Merci Mr. Rinder… it was perfect !
    Let’s make a bulk mail whit that

  57. Hey Mike you helped clear up narcissism too! LRH never really explained it and it baffles the mind how they act and think differently than most people- very insane! They confuse everybody with lies and deceit.

  58. More of you should speak up especially n the UK right now re current events and what is happening across the EU.

    Thankyou Mike for more information.

    At around 14min into the interview the issue with the “Organisation” vs personal practices was highlighted and one of the many reasons why we do what we do.

  59. lol just listened to it again “gluteus maximus”🙂

    Can you contact me re Cyprus and other issues you mentioned thx.

  60. free zoner from Germany

    Thank you very much Mike, for bringing up the truth. Great job.

  61. Masterpiece!
    Mike, you sound very sane and acceptable for broad public. Whether perfect PR, truth or both I can’t say, but that having to lie for Davey for the first time made you instantly quit, speaks for you, Scientology and us. I didn’t know that Tommy blew as well; Davey must have been at his very best to blow off his top two PR officers at the same time. I didn’t know his exact MO for implanting evil intentions and group degrading either; thanks for the sunshine.

  62. Mike,

    It was really nice to hear you speak again as I had enjoyed for years on end when I still attended event. It’s pretty amazing to realize now what was really going on for you when that the BBC interview where you denied Miscavidge was beating people and to know that it was right there where you decided to and did leave. That had to be one of the best and worst moments in your life rolled into one. I’ve always been impinged upon by your public speakings and ability to say so much in very understandable terms. Thank you for the excellent summation of glaring outpoints and how simple you made it to see the transformation of growth LRH’s tech enjoyed in the 50s-70s to the only honest “expansion” under Miscavidge’s siege being buildings. DeMon had to apparently put the IAS treasure chest into some other form of asset ie buildings in order to out-create the danger of having those bulging bank accounts all over the world that aren’t supposed to exist under the codes for a religious non-profit status to be valid. Thank you again, listening to you rehabbed better times when events were fun (and NOT 3 hours LONG!) and showed STATS that reflected actual progress.
    TroubleShooter

  63. The attention on a religion of 40.000 to 50.000 Scientologists of the world or critics and Anons seems ridiculous as they all gould fit in one town.

    But there it gets different. It isn’t a religion at all at the moment. It is a worldwide criminal organisation with 40.000 to 50.000 members.

    And that is big.

    • Good point, CD.

    • CD,
      The attention is as suggested by Richard Behar; Scientology is an important and compelling subject.

      It will be racketing down the time track. It has been released and may we never be the same.

      This cat is outta da bag.

      • Stray cats accuse 40.000 to 50.000 victims of being criminals, don’t recognize a real criminal if he steals their last milk and infiltrate enemy camps to stop pro survival endeavor.

        • I was not talking about the members being criminal . I wasn’t even portrayoing them as victims. What is TRUE is that the ARE members of a Criminal Organisation.

          • The Church of Scientology is not a “criminal organization”.

            It is an organization that has been hijacked by criminals for their own nefarious purposes.

            There is a difference.

            Most Scientologists are unaware of this fact and the majority of them are good people as Mike said in his interview.

            Please make that distinction CD.

            • The Church of Scientology IS a Criminal Organization.

              And scientologist still in should be made aware of this any wich way we can.

              • One could say the same about anonymous as well.

                By the way.

                How’s your friend Boris doing these days?

                • By the way lol at Irony. Why are you taking the viewpoint of Tommy Davis ?

                  • Talk about IRONY!

                    Me have the viewpoint of Tommy Davis?

                    Whatever your smoking must be pretty damn good sh*t CD.

                    I was merely suggesting that those who live in glass houses shouldn’t caste stones.

                    Especially one who claims to be a member of the CIA’s and State Department’s cat’s paw known as “anonymous”.

                    Why did you guys get so hot and bothered about the Iranian elections (you know a country that the Neocons were itching for a rumble with) yet I’ve heard nary a bo peep about the Afghan elections that were from various observers even more of a farce?

                    Also why do you guy’s have an ex-spook as one of your biggest OLs?

                    (By the way I don’t by the crap Boris is spouting about breaking off his love affair with Kubark because that’s one of the oldest tricks in the Espionage rule books.

                    What CI officers call a “dangle”.)

                    You see the only difference between spies and criminals is that the formers crimes are sanctioned by government.

                    In other word you guys are being played and like many Scientologists who are still on lines.

                    Yet you seem to be unaware of the situation.

                    In fact you’re probably even unaware of the fact that “anonymous” obviously has been hijacked by certain factions to carry out their foreign policy agenda by the way that they screamed like stuck pigs when Ahmadinejad was reelected.

                    It would have been less obvious if your outrage was consistent when that kleptocrat Karzai was reelected but the reason why is also obvious:

                    He may be a son of a bitch but he’s our son of a bitch obvious.

                    Maybe you should change your nom de plume to Cat’s Paw Daddy.

                    • Well the few times I did smoke, I indeed had quality. But to dissapoint you I am not a stoner.
                      I think your metaphor is funny albeit a bit odd.

                      I am leaving the politics to you.

                      Boris is my Friend

                      And you seem to be full of venom today, why is that ?

                    • Maybe it’s that time of the month.

                      Who knows!

                      Regarding politics.

                      Maybe anonymous should stay away from the subject entirely as it seems they were easily duped by the situation regarding Iran.

                      Either that or become more politically savvy so they don’t end up looking like a bunch of psywar stooges.

                      http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/06/iran-activists-get-assist-from-anonymous-pirate-bay/

                      Also why isn’t anonymous outraged by the fact that the State Department is trying to shut down Wikileaks by claiming it as a “terrorist group”?

                      Ask your friend Boris.

                    • http://iran.whyweprotest.net/

                      “Also why isn’t anonymous outraged by the fact that the State Department is trying to shut down Wikileaks by claiming it as a “terrorist group”?”

                      It is.

                    • martyrathbun09

                      And folks wonder why the Federal Government won’t put period to the punk? Too many parallel interests: MONEY AND CENSORSHIP.

                    • That’s nice that you folks seem upset about Wikileaks but I don’t a WWP site like there was for Iran.

                      Is it because Wikileaks in their way are trying to prevent a war and you guys are too busy trying to start one?

                    • RJ there is a strong correlation between Anon and Wikileaks.

      • I was talking about the Church not the subject. But to aknowledge you. If in this day and age the subject will not blossom than it was flawed indeed.

        Your best bet is to connect up with the world even the sciences. The we against the world aproach of Hubbard has failed.

        • CD,
          Thanks for generally degrading Scientology as a subject, accusing all Scientologists of being accessory to criminal activity, showing that you haven’t understood one single idea of LRH and preferring MEST sciences. Who’s paying you for full time blog monitoring? Big Pharma, a psychiatric think tank or one of their front groups?

          • Oh, come on, Erwin. Seriously?

          • MEST sciences is where Hubbard draws from so you are pretty unaware of the subject scientology yourself. You msay have read alot of LRH books or listened to a lot of tapesa but you are still living in a bubble.

            “Who’s paying you for full time blog monitoring? Big Pharma, a psychiatric think tank or one of their front groups?”

            LOL, Your CofS is showing big time duddy.

            Yes I get 50 dollars to protest and a lifetimesupply of pills. I especcially like to down the pink and greys with vast amounts of rum.

            “CD,
            Thanks for generally degrading Scientology as a subject, accusing all Scientologists of being accessory to criminal activity, showing that ”

            YES I live to degrade all scientollogists everywhere It’s my calling. It is what I was born to do. Muhahahahaha derp.

    • Theo Sismanides

      Cat Daddy, I have told ya many times to please be kind and careful in your wordings and criticisms with that religion called Scientology. Scientology is one thing and the Transvesty organization called church of Scientology is another.

      I hope you are referring to the latter and please, next time, you mention the word Scientology be meticulous and careful enough to make that differentiation clear. Your comment comes across as a generality. Scientology is under seize on this prison planet. Get that?

  64. I earnestly wish, that the tax exempt will be revoked a.s.a.p.
    That will probably be the biggest pain possible which could be inflicted upon him (together with all the respective consequences to his image within).
    I earnestly wish that on him a.s.a.p.
    Fidelio

  65. I’m sitting here in front of my computer, coffee in hand reading comments about Mike Rinder’s appearance on the Tampa radio show. (have not listened as of this writing).
    When I came upon Karen #1’s comment , “Google David Miscavige Abuse 18,000 hits” I took pause and and got to thinking in the opposite direction.
    I was wondering if David Miscavige has any friends, after all he seems to secure a lot of donations for his church. He must be a popular leader or is he?
    Using Karen #1’s lead I GOOGLED: “Friends+of+David+Miscavige”
    I suggest you copy the above and paste into Google for your answer.

    • +1 on that.

      +10 to Mike for the interview.

      Did my morning “ritual” (you know, still in the bathrobe, coffee, a cigarette, Marty’s blog – very cozy) and took it in. Mike, it still delights (and surprises me at the same time) to see how natural Scientologists become once they are out from under this mad-dog regime called Tshurtsh (church) AND how easily non-Scientologists and press and journalists etc. accept the good side of Scientology as well – provided one is a “genuine article”.

      You come across as the real McKoy you are.

      Love, Samuel

      • Yo Samuel, looks like we are on for the Stat Analysis this afternoon or early evening. Fasten your seat belts folks.

  66. Brilliant Mike…just brilliant!

  67. A coward. a creep and a con artist best describes DM

    and don’t forget he is also a BULLY hiding behind his COB badge.

    When will he go down?

    Any predictions?

    • I’ll take the “Under” on March 13, 2011. That would really be a birthday present for Ron, wouldn’t it?

    • LRH said that the best way to predict the future is to create it. He also said that “not know” is a much higher ability than “know”. Having said that, it is impossible for DM’s future to be anything but difficult and painful. We all need to do our part to get the show on the road. I do not wish to take responsibility for causing sorrow to any being, including DM. Therefore, you will get no prediction from me.

  68. Mike,
    This is the most powerful, sincere, truthful and genuine interview I’ve ever heard you do. Well done.

  69. Mike, Wonderful job in so many ways.

    I really hope that you do an extended series of these. Your experiences going all the way back to the 60s, being on the Apollo with LRH in the 70s, and then being so close to the top through the 80s, 90s and 00s as Miscavige slowly morphed and reversed the whole thing, are the details that are sorely needed for all current, former and future Scientologists to as-is and understand what happened.

    I look forward to your (hopefully many) next interviews … even if done informally by a friend.

  70. Excellent interview! Mike sounds very calmed and composed and getting to the point and saying it as it is!
    I am looking forward to listening to more interviews.
    Aida Thomas
    Spanish Class VIII

  71. I just now listened to the whole show. WOW, Mike!!! VVVWD!
    Thank goodness you are out and communicating.
    The host did an excellent job as well.
    Thank you to you and to all the rest who are out there helping to reveal the truth.

  72. Excellent interview Mike..I think the best one yet. Very smooth, obviously honest, precise facts. Good on ya!

  73. Mike,

    Great interview, the victims of this tyrannical “leader” appreciate all your time and effort spent exposing Mr David Miscavige for what he really is; an abusive and shameful manipulator of good people.

    Speak out! Let the truth be known!

    Sincerely,
    AB

  74. Great interview! Miscavidge has really met his match with the two MR’s. Marty’s trained to the teeth, Mike’s as cool as a cucumber and neither of them will be stopped. Bet Dave can feel the crosshairs on his forehead..

  75. Mike Rinder you are the voice of truth & reason as you speak like the Sage you are.
    You’re a product of good time Scientology. (I was thinking of the phrase good time rock N roll.)
    I am so glad DM used you in London to save his ass and turned on you one time too many times. Thanks for being a “OL”whistle blower. For those still towing the party line your talk will move some and maybe many to look and that is all we can ask.
    I enjoyed your radio interview and learned additional information about this criminal organization.
    VWD

  76. Mike, a great job on the interview. I continue to admire your work in dismantling CoS in its present form.

    IMO, David Miscavige has crossed over into classical “Black Magick” in which he is actively harming people while amassing earthly treasures and power for himself. Jesus spoke of people like DM in his parable of the Rich Man:

    “Speaking to the people, he went on, “Take care! Protect yourself against the least bit of greed. Life is not defined by what you have, even when you have a lot.” Then he told them this story: “The farm of a certain rich man produced a terrific crop. He talked to himself: ‘What can I do? My barn isn’t big enough for this harvest.’ Then he said, ‘Here’s what I’ll do: I’ll tear down my barns and build bigger ones. Then I’ll gather in all my grain and goods, and I’ll say to myself, Self, you’ve done well! You’ve got it made and can now retire. Take it easy and have the time of your life!’

    “Just then God showed up and said, ‘Fool! Tonight you die. And your barnful of goods—who gets it?’ “That’s what happens when you fill your barn with Self and not with God.” — Luke 12:15-21 (The Message version)

    Scientology produced a “terrific crop.” David Miscavige accordingly tore down LRH’s barns and built new Ideal Orgs in which to store “COB’s” treasures. His $70 million office is an example of what a fool would build for himself. Who will get DM’s barnful of goods when Karma sweeps him away?

    *****
    No amount of “extras” applauding David Miscavige will ever make him Good. No matter how much he deceives himself by purchasing the praise and adoration of others, his life is still a lie. David Miscavige is a self-deluded rich man living on the precipice of Hell.

    /////

  77. Awesome, awesome, Mike you did so great. I was surprised though that you were not familiar with the Stanford Prison Experiment. It’s on the internet,
    I think they were going to do this experiment for two weeks, but it was stopped after 4 days. Half were to be prisoners and half to be guards. The guards got into their role and just got nastier and nastier and the prisoners got into their roles and I know they had several prisoners having mental breakdowns. The
    environment you are in has a LOT to do with your actions and behaviors.
    As well as the roles you are given to ‘survive’….

    • @Nancy: Stanford Prison Experiment did not pass peer review nor has it ever been replicated, unlike the Milgram Experiment. The researcher paying the volunteers for participating directly interfered with the study by acting as one of the prison guards himself.

      However, one of the reported results that seldom gets mentioned when people cite this: fully 1/3 of the “guards” refused to participate in any activity which might be construed as “torture” or harming the “prisoners”; and, these same “guards” did whatever they could to mitigate the the prisoners’ suffering.

      Michael A. Hobson

      • 1/3 of people are able to resist the group 2/3 of people go along with the group. There is an experiment that confirms that.I have tried to dig it up. I think I have to ak somebody who knows about these things better.

        The conclusion was that the mix of 1/3 against 2/3 was ahealthy for overal group survival.

  78. Mike,

    Your interview was quite brilliant. You are obviously quite clear with a high volume of reason. After the many reports on DM’s fixation on the second dynamic and reports of people’s witholds being read at staff meetings, I have come to think there is something far more sinister and 1.1 behind these assaults. Over the years it became obvious if anyone was gaining in local popularity or power and DM became aware of it, he would figure out a way to pull the rug out from under their feet and unmock them. Many of these “2d thoughts” actually happen to be admiration particles. It is noticable when two people unite they seem to have more power to help one another leave. This would be a virus DM would need to stay on top of by labeling it unholy and degraded. To the point if you did have admiration for someone it could be shifted into a second dynamic arena and labeled a crime. The two power houses close to him always accused of homosexuality would certainly be a threat if they were ever to bond in any way that would permit a close conspiracy. These assaults upon peoples admiration flows for one another may come off as a reprimand or ethics view when in fact they are maneuvers to keep comm lines between peoples chopped up. But riddled with protest about being tagged homosexuals they would began to unmock their own lines and make an effort to be out of comm. Which would keep them seperated and weak. Upon reading the stories of many people breaking away or returning to their reason and being able to seperate, there is a story right behind it of a sudden caring about a fellow staff member. I think this is a way DM cuts comm lines and prohibits people, especially the very powerful ones, from uniting and forming a power base on any close conspiracy. If nobody can create a close conspiracy, no new power base can be created. And without admiration particals, close conspiracies are impossible. I think his 2d announcments and declares and accusations are a smoke screen. The real intention is to stop the flow of admiration particles. To prevent others from forming any power. Just my thoughts. It is interesting that the ones leaving and having a power base out here just happen to be highly intelligent, charismatic, very good looking, sane, and enormous magnets for admiration.

    • Idomind, I think you are absolutely right.

    • Divide and conquer is a well known ancient power concept and it’s Davey MO. If not done by slander and degrading, it’s done by Command Intention, cross ordering each and every 2D and 3D activity. He lives on extracting any admiration particle left in any of his slaves and forcing it towards him.

  79. Sorry, I might add, the purpose of black P.R., slander, and entheta, is to unmock admiration flows. If you can pull those down you can pull down a person’s power. I have watched over the years people leaving the Church and paid close attention to the people who jumped forward with slander and black P.R. to unmock admiration flows towards that person. It comes across as slander natter and third party but what it is really about is unmocking admiration flows towards that person. You can read S.O.S. and the fundamental ideas and indicators but you have to know why things work the way they do, the mechanics behind it, before you can really think with it. Admiration particles are very powerful magic. And there are people who cannot tolerate it. You can find a person in the ditch and an admiration particle, (not sympathy), can get him up and walking again. I know there is a process whereby you look for something you can admire. What are all of these staged events and beautiful buildings for if not a desperate bid for admiration?

  80. Mike: Thanks so much for your interview. Your expertise shows, although 1 hr goes by so fast. I hope you can do a follow up with Tom Smith, who has been a stellar outlet from the beginning. Hope fair game and Montalvo particularly could be covered next. I so much hope your invaluable first hand information will find its way to those who need to know.

    Strictly from a “qual” point of view, not thought stopping natter, I wanted to suggest that your statement about Scientologists would excuse DM’s “petty foibles” if Scientology was expanding could come across to any non-Scientologist as, well, not favorable, and possibly cult like.

    Personally, I think I knew what you meant to say, but for others it might have come off that you meant DM’s violence and abuse was mere “foible” and that Scientologists would be OK with that if membership was increasing.

    I know you are a professional in this field and will “get” what I am saying is not a diss, that it is in fact a Qual. In this same light, I want to point out a statement of Karen, who I admire greatly for her efforts, but who said something about admiring you for your level of “tolerance of abuse”.

    I understand the sentiment, but tolerance of abuse should be ZERO, whether within Scientology or Any group anywhere. I have no doubt that Mike would wish his son not be abused in any way, shame or form. Would any parent?

    People like Mike Rinder are rare pioneer spirits. I’m an old OT, ex SO, and a lot of other things. We may not agree on some stuff, but I treasure people who are real pioneers as well as other artists, and fully understand their value in the human equation and progression.
    In the end game, people helping people is all it is about. The very very few left “in”, what, 15,000? are the kind of people who will sell their children into slavery, or agree to cut off their family if they don’t agree to whatever. Or agree to financial disaster. These are people who have agreed to hell in order to achieve personal reincarnation at any cost. That is the Truth.
    I would love to see an interview about fair game as well as the above.

    • NotConfused

      You said:
      “The very very few left “in”, what, 15,000? are the kind of people who will sell their children into slavery, or agree to cut off their family if they don’t agree to whatever. Or agree to financial disaster. These are people who have agreed to hell in order to achieve personal reincarnation at any cost. That is the Truth.”

      I very much disagree with that sentiment and do not consider it the “truth” at all.
      I will bet that most of those “still in” have no such considerations. They have been seriously misled, they are the effect of propaganda and lies, they have been systematically overwhelmed and are having their “basic goodness” used against them in order to control them and extract money or forward David Miscaviges “command intention”. I do not believe that most are even aware of the truth at all. They have been prevented from looking by using their love and caring for others against them.

      Each of us has a point where we will finally put the pieces together and start to see the truth . Actually many, if not most, may need auditing or counseling to allow them to cognite on what is actually happening in present time. This is actually not that different than having a “reactive mind” or past difficulties, upsets and suppressions. I consider that these people are no more “choosing to be like this” than any aberated person chooses to be aberated. If you were to ask I will bet you will find that most of the people you are probably including in your comment have absolutely no idea of the situation that they are actually in as regards their association with the current Church of Scientology. They have been sold a pack of lies and their communication lines have been cut and they have been individuated by fear of reprisal and they are likely not aware of any of it. What has been done to them is truly evil.

      Basically what is being done here and on other similar sites and blogs is a kind of handling to remove the Suppressor, (David Miscavige and perhaps a very few others) from the environment so as to give the others a chance to get out from under the dominance that they are subject to so that they can again look for themselves and see the truth of what has been going on.

      WW

      • Another aspect of this site is to present the truth in order to help those who have managed to get out to see what has actually been going on in spite of what they had believed. The TRUTH is a powerful healer!

        WW

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  82. I wasn’t about to know people’s whereabouts when Mary Sue Hubbard got busted and sent to prison. It seemed to be the yellow brick road that rolled out for DM. He got Hubbard to go into hiding. But it would not surprise me to learn that the big withold, the one that really got missed, was not gambling Hubbard’s money away in Vegas.I have a feeling DM tossed that one out there as a misdirector. It would not surprise me to discover DM was the one behind Mary Sue suddenly getting busted. Who came to profit from that the most? Wasn’t that the last time he left himself in a position to get a sec check? I find his obsession with her upon her release a bit of an outpoint. I am just saying, it would not surprise me to find he was the one that in someway pulled the rug out from under her feet.

  83. Erwin Croughs | October 16, 2010 at 7:17 pm | Reply

    “CD,
    Thanks for generally degrading Scientology as a subject, accusing all Scientologists of being accessory to criminal activity, showing that you haven’t understood one single idea of LRH and preferring MEST sciences. Who’s paying you for full time blog monitoring? Big Pharma, a psychiatric think tank or one of their front groups?”

    What a stupid post!
    Cat Daddy is VERY Freezone/independent friendly in places its harder to be so like ESMB. Probably on WWP also but I don’t go there much.

    I shall in fact be travelling to meet and party with him shortly.

    You don’t think COS is a criminal organisation?

    Putting on my scn ser-fac valence, please go and get someone to M9
    you on this entire blog!

  84. CD is very Psych, CIA and Pharma friendly. I guess you get 50 buck as well? I haven’t seen any conviction for CoS but I do differentiate between CoS and CoM and the latter is criminal, something I among 50.000 other Scientologist never signed up for. The difference between Scientologists on this blog and those on CoM lines is awareness, not criminality.

    • There is no Cof S it’s dead.

    • Oh please So now Terril gets 50 bucks, Well it must be truth since he protrsts the church alongside london anons.

      • Some Anons get paid.
        I don’t think Terril collects but you did confess.

        • You are very gullible

          • I’m not gullible, just a data evaluator following up on out points, refusing red herrings and getting the data freely confessed with accompanying indicators. Such an exercise yields lots of information as to how Anon is organized, that it’s organized, who they are, who pays, how much, to whom and what the motives are. At the same time that I won’t stop you from attacking Davey, I warn my fellow Scientologists that as soon as Anon has him gone they’re going to come for the philosophy and us.

            • I think you are falling into the same paranoia trap Miscavige lives in.

            • Could you let me know who is paying for Anonymous coz I haven’t been paid a penny.😦 I have also never received any orders from anyone but would be interested in knowing the names of the leaders so I could shake their hands and ask them what I can do to help in a more organised fashion; at the moment I go on forums, read and debate ideas and find out what others are doing and have being doing and decide to do what I want to do (if anything), then I go do it without asking for permission – occasionally I’ll mention what I have done but usually I don’t simply because that’s just not me.

              As to coming after the philosophy, I can only speak for myself but I go by the what ever gets you through the day is okay as long as it doesn’t put someone else out – then it needs to be challenged. Frankly a bunch of people auditing each other doesn’t bother me any more than a bunch of people who pray to mecca 5 times a day.

              The problems IMHO are with the organisation calling itself the church of scientology and while you Independent Scientologists seem to like to believe that’s because of David Miscavige I don’t.

              I think the organisation is the result of all the policies upon which it is based and Miscavige is the product of being in the position he’s in for so long, it usually brings out the worst in people having so many sycophants and absolutely no one to reign you in; guess his stature and upbringing are a factor too but he doesn’t audit so he’s never going to get that sorted is he… and you allowed him to be leader…(well at least you’ve clicked on that).

              Whether you Independent Scientologists manage to create the utopian Scientology organisation you believe should exist or whether it will revert to form when people start trying to do the same things in the same way remains to be seen; if you do you won’t find me protesting you but if you just recreate the current church of scientology warts and all you most certainly will.

              For me it isn’t the stupid amounts of money you spend for your brand of enlightenment that bothers me it’s all the other issues, many of which brought you here. I happen to know you can get the same and better results than though any scientology doctrine way cheaper but then again like any belief system a large part of why it works is the belief in it…

              All that said I reserve the right to take the piss out of the beliefs just as I do with others that seem daft. A right enshrined in clause Part 3 29J of the UK 2006 Religious and Racial Hatred Act IIRC.

    • LONG LIVE THE PSYCHS

    • The CIA is a crappy Organization and Americans are misusing pharmaceuticals so they keep working too hard and consuming too much.

      Sometimes you need pills, oftentimes you don’t But do not be one of those Extremists.

  85. Havn’t even had a letter saying “the cheque is in
    the post.”😦

    Party in Holland, Greebs. If you want to come to Amsterdam for a couple of days you’re welcome.🙂

    Erwin, I see we do in fact agree that CoM is criminal.

    Don’t know about Catdaddy being CIA and big Pharma friendly, we’ve never discussed those. With regard to Psyches, I know at least
    3 auditors who are qualified psychologists. Then Sarge Gerbode was a psychaitrist, and later wtote” Metapsychology “with much input
    from David Mayo. He wrote in the forward of his book that he was getting better results with scn than with his day job as a psyche. Last summer he attended a seminar on TIR [ basically Dianetics]and Metapsychology held at Cambridge University. These are now being taught at some universities. Personally I think it a good thing that
    LRH tech is getting into mainstream therapy, adding another string to the bow of tech dissemination. Its not clear, at least to me, if anything using the name ” Scientology” will expand much with the liabilities of
    being considered even less popular than Al Queda.

    • We did discuss Magic🙂, Well and there is a connection with the work done in the Neurosciences at Wisconsin University. somebody on this blog mentioned Somebody at that University would love to have Independent Scientologists over.

    • A couple of hours Amsterdam would be sufficient, just let me know. You’re right about Mainstream Science waking up to workable Technologies. They even admit more and more frequently to the failure of psych drugs, thereby averting whole nations getting addicted. I think that the name of Scientology will always be around and will attract public to the degree that it’s used standardly.

  86. Mike, I liked your interview so much that I listened it two times, it really helped me to understand things that I have been suspecting all along. I hope that something is done soon towards the arresting and incarceration of David Miscavige.
    Muchas gracias, again.
    Aida Thomas Spanish Class VIII

  87. ERWIN
    “CD is very Psych, CIA and Pharma friendly.”

    Well you saw his comments re Pharma and CIA.

    I have only just listened to his occasionally re posted u-tube of a
    psychaistrist Norman Doidge on ” Neuroplasticity” or the brains ability to change its structure. The change can be, he says, a result of “imaginations “etc. eg postulates?

    I would here like to quote Phil Spickler from his interview, “Scientologists should be three feet behind the world. No enemies, no enemies. ”

    I suggest listening to the full lecture by this man. This psychaitrist gives a very similar message to scientology. ” Function monitors structure” as an example, only mostly commenting on those who are not the most able, those brain damaged. Who traditionally have been considered untreatable. Yet he talks of people who have had half their brain lost and yet live again. Those victims of strokes who learn to
    do what they could not physically do. All by changing brain structure.

    Life repair anyone?

    Theta changing brain structure! He talks of how other peoples
    ” brains” changes others “brains”.

    Its a great message of humanity and hope!

    Further, other studies by others have noted how certain disciplines
    change brain structure. Music is one of the most important, among other changes the connection to the right and left hemisphere grows larger. Meditation is also I believe the most effective here. So imagine how our tech processes ” exercise” the brain.!

    Per scn the brain is the switchboard between the thetan and the body. Not suprising it grows through exercising . One could even relate this to study tech.

    So blanket not ising of scientists working in the field of the mind
    is I suggest a bit culturally run in and robotic.

    You think DMs mission to eradicate psychaitry when the Mecca can’t handle one pts girl is sensible?

  88. CD loves Boris and doesn’t see why people use too many pills. I used the word psychs refering to mainstream psychiatry, the ww drugs pushers for CIA, Big Pharma and their financial bosses. I wasn’t referring to the individual researcher who is waking up to betterment activity. Davey’s Psychiatry Obliteration farce is about the most contraproductive program I’ve ever seen; during the decade he was most active pharma sales doubled and about 50% of the American population was hooked on (il)legal drugs.

  89. Roger that big Erwin.

    I just happened to working at CCHR Int when we were going to pull the plug on the anti-Prozac campaign because was counter productive and off purpose since it didn’t align with and detracted from documenting psychiatric human rights abuses which was supposed to be our causis belli.

    That and supporting the anti-psychiatry movement being spearheaded by Szasz and Breggin.

    Well once wind of this defection to actual policies and directives regarding CCHR went up lines we where all replaced by “tough dedicated” and compliant Sea Org members who turned CCHR into such a joke that the anti psychiatry movement ran away from it in complete terror.

    • CCHR Is a Farce and has always been a Farxe

      • We actually shut down Charter hospitals and American Medical Enterprises while I was on staff there.

        Two parasitical organizations that would take some desperate kid with a drug problem strap him or her down and pump more medication into them and then completely abandon them after their insurance ran out.

        (I remember walking by the FBI Task force and going to the ED asking her what are all these FBI agents doing down here?

        And her saying “It’s okay their not after us.
        “They just want to review all our files on AME.”)

        Also we blocked Jolly West’s favorite bill to lock up black kids and feed ’em “anti”psychotics even though they’d never committed a crime.

        Plus we jailed an array of sexual predators posing as Psychiatrists that even the AMA and APA were happy to get rid of.

        Not to mention blocking a plethora of Orwellian legislation.

        What has anonymous done except stand around wearing silly Guy Fawkes masks and acting as the State Department’s attack Chiwawa regarding Iran?

        Farce so far doesn’t begin to describe your useless actions.

        But it’s a good start.

    • Got to agree about the current version of CCHR, it’s considered to be the Al-Qaeda of the “anti psych” groups let alone the psychiatry watch groups thanks to its extremist attitudes.

      A lot of people, myself included, believe there is too much dependence on drugs, mainly in the USA, that has resulted from drug companies seeking to maximise profits; a downside to an unfettered capitalist society. I’m a big fan of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy but I am happy to accept there are other ways such as auditing and as I said before all these things work best when you truly believe they will.

      I also think people should have the choice of drugs but not have drugs foisted on them. I am not anti-psychiatry more psychiatry / big pharma watch dog, which I think is where most people with concerns stand.

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  91. ERWIN

    “CD loves Boris and doesn’t see why people use too many pills. I used the word psychs refering to mainstream psychiatry, the ww drugs pushers for CIA, Big Pharma and their financial bosses. I wasn’t referring to the individual researcher who is waking up to betterment activity. Davey’s Psychiatry Obliteration farce is about the most contraproductive program I’ve ever seen; during the decade he was most active pharma sales doubled and about 50% of the American population was hooked on (il)legal drugs.”

    Have no idea of CDs relation to Boris.

    I think its out data series to link CIA, Big Pharma and financial bosses. Less you got overwhelming evidence. There probably are some links, but I’d guess mostly coincidental.

    We believe, hell know, that man is basically good. Thus psyches
    are basically good.

    We are psychs!

    CD indicated that he was against too many pills.

    Very recently I spoke to one who was seriously mentally abused by his mother all his life. Virginia McClaughrey. Some here may remember her. Her son took some psych drug, perhaps prozac, can’t recall. He posted on ESMB that which can be compared to the greatest success stories I’ve ever posted. Like he could sleep for example!

    Incidently he commented that no one had ever understood him as well as I. Well I had a fair amount of comm with his crazy mother
    and understood.

    Its not that I’m a supporter of Big Pharma or ” psyches”
    [ a generalisation]. Big Pharma are corporations dedicated to
    profit no matter what it takes. With all the [ anon speak]” fail” that
    implies.

    ” Psyches” are individuals. They would mostly be on the same path as us. Understanding humanity.

    First policy, ” Maintain friendly relations with the environment and your public.”

    This policy is EXTREMELY powerful. Violating it is EXTREMELY dangerous. Thus we lost a Church.

    Off soapbox.🙂

  92. Terril,
    MKULTRA was an LSD doling program, led by psychs like D. Cameron, W. Sargant and S. Gottlieb. The only reason they stopped drugging the American public with LSD is that they were found out in 1972 through the Congressional Hearings of the Watergate scandal. Media didn’t report it but many records of the Hearings and declassified CIA information is found in books, legal records, Wiki and even on Dutch TV last week. The programs were financed by the State and Rockefeller, who of course did the investigation afterward for cover-up.

    The best way to destabilize a country (secret service priority) is to get it addicted. Benzodiazepines (Valium) and Anti-depressiva (Amfetamine derivates) are the legal route to get it done. Mainstream accepted psychiatry (not individual reformers) upon whose advise governments appropriate funds, have pushed those into at least a quart of the American population and enacted laws to enforce them on every pregnant mother.

    I can’t comment on individual successes like Prozac but I do know that any junk who scores his daily Amfetamines will be beyond euforia. Big Pharma is known to use any story for PR because sales must be up, no matter how big the lies, no matter for how many billions they have to buy off permanently damaged victims. Mainstream psychiatry, not every individual psych, paid by Pharma shareholders like Rockefeller and Rothchild banks, are responsible for the ever increasing labels through DSM IV and subsequent planetary chemical onslaught.

    It’s true that man is basically good, even psychs, communist, you, me and Davey. That doesn’t mean that man can’t be abberated and stray from being good, committing overts and then some to cover them up, etc. To let man continue on this road to nowhere is about the worst disservice you can do to him. Mainstream psychiatry as well as Davey should be glad that at least someone takes responsibility because they themselves can’t.

    Maintaining friendly relations with an infiltrated enemy that wants to drug your children or pervert the Tech you flourish by is EXTREMELY dangerous; you’ll loose your children and Church. It’s found in just about every ethics and justice advice from LRH.

    • What you have described as to intention and operating basis is eerily parallel to Corporate Scientology.

      • Translation for Cats: Corporate Scientology IS NOT Scientology, is reversed Scientology, is criminal, is suppressive, is creating chaos, is not what we signed up for, is the reason we are speaking up here.

        • Marty,
          I already commented on the parallels between the Bush war games, his monumental lying, media mass hypnosis, mind control and torture and the exact same techniques employed by Davey at the same time in the same country, right before the officially biggest economic crisis since the thirties. And everybody knows what happened in the forties. If it wasn´t for the G20 preventing a crisis of biblical proportions, we´d have quite a different conversation now. Ironically the financial world powers and bank conglomerates had set up the G20 to usurp full power during the intended crisis but got defeated by their own petard.

          • “his monumental lying” You give Bush to much credit. His strings were pulled by the others. Cheney, Wolfowitz, Donald H. Rumsfeld. Greenspan making the biggest mistakes at the end of his carrer live trusting them. Playing Rice and screwing over a good man: Colin Powell.

            “We’ve got this mr president you go play on your ranch now”

    • “Big Pharma is known to use any story for PR because sales must be up”

      GREED, It always comes down to greed.

  93. @ Erwin Croughs and RJ

  94. Mike you are one lucky man.

    The experiences of your life can create an understanding of reality that many do not understand is even possible.

    I think you are the kind of person that intends to use whatever energy given him to free himself and others from ignorance.

    My favorite part was how you admitted to how embarrassed you are about taking so long to wake up. You are not alone. The sheer masses of people who had their realities hijacked in the name of their best wishes for humankind is rampant, and the body count is in the millions.

    But that view? That reality in the face of betrayal? I wouldn’t trade it for nothing! Much wisdom there. Much much.

  95. ERWIN Croughs:-
    “Maintaining friendly relations with an infiltrated enemy that wants to drug your children or pervert the Tech you flourish by is EXTREMELY dangerous; you’ll loose your children and Church. It’s found in just about every ethics and justice advice from LRH.”

    Interesting area to debate.

    Phil Spickler said, ” No enemies,no enemies.”

    True for me.

    LRH was initially interested in working with mainstream psychology etc as mentioned in PDC lectures. However they rejected him, and then later he used them as a PR device to position Scn Tech as superior, fair enough and true IMO. Then there was much LRH sniping at a rival scene which out produces Scn probably a million fold. Even such sniping in the Data Series. Added inapplicable?

    What I’ll say here may look like the words of a critic, but note I avidly promote tech outside CO$.

    DM extrapolated this further in a destructive pattern of an expressed wish to annihilate psychology and psychiatry by the year 2000, and with violent images of an exploding grenade. Using this to
    extract cash from all parishioners despite CCHR members funding their own actions.

    However with Lisa McPherson it was demonstrated that even Flag did not have the resources to handle a girl with a psychotic break.
    [ induced by wrong indications re ethics handling. If you read the logs.]

    So it seems was a DM screw up. Par for the course I guess. However
    it needs an expensive nursing home with qualified medical personnel
    to actually handle such cases. A nursing home that won’t go into more extreme actions than the mild sedation LRH advised. There probably are some, specially today, 50 years after the hey days of heavy treatment. And COS could well afford such an organization, but don’t even fund toilet paper! Or they could even create their own
    nursing home. better than a $70,000 ,000 building for a midget.!

    So I’d suggest the correct action here is not to smash with hand grenades such nursing homes but to……….. OK its weird….
    -communicate -with them and establish a working relationship.

    Currently the received data is that one rejects and annihilates and smashes psychiatry/psychology while refusing to accept anyone who has had need of their services. So where do such people go? Is this not an outpoint?

    So many places the answer per LRH, and common sense is communication. In my family there is a psychologist, a psychiatrist
    and a couple of medical doctors. They are not my enemy. Oh and
    my father was an episcopalian priest who did exorcisms and healing!
    One half brother has studied many new age/ alternative methods of raising awareness and with his expertise was asked to run an Est seminar with no knowledge of Est. Another half bro is a devout Christian who from my limited time with him I observed specialises in good works.

    We are all psyches! All do good work.

    Mainstream therapy is used by some 12 % of the population in the UK, probably more in the US. Why are they not using Scn?

    • Great post Terrill. I liked how you stated how you sounded like a critic.

      There seems to be a desire sometimes to create two classes of people: critics and non-critics.

      But in doing so they forget a class.

      The liberal – those that see value in the practices, rituals and common sense found in their religion, but reject and reframe the kookier elements of their faith.

      I personally view Phil Spickler as a perfect example of this.

      Every religion evolves a liberal viewpoint sometime, and it is the role of fundamentalists to cut any communication of that view.

  96. Terril,
    Phil didn’t want enemies and LRH didn’t want war but both got more than their fair share of it. You’re right about Davey: he instilled fear to plunder his parishioners and he corrupted very positive Tech into something that produced the Lisa case and many similar ones.

    Working together with governments in the fields of education, crime, business and mental patients, was a wish of LRH and the latter got executed in Italy where government closed down all State Psych Wards to have CCHR step in and restore basic human value to the ex patients; communication works every time and is a basic of Scientology. Breaking communication is standard MO of Davey but is what these days gets perceived as Scientology and will be as long as he is allowed to highjack the subject.

    I’m not a psych and I won’t let my name me be associated with a defeatist science that officially cures less than 1% of its patients and admits to it. From individual viewpoint everyone does the best he can with the data he has. No criminal will think himself wrong for his crime (only for getting caught) and even Davey thinks he is doing the best he can. But good and bad, survival and destruction, are defined by considering other dynamics and criminals can’t think with the greatest good for all involved.

    However, nowadays more and more individual psychs can see other dynamics and take very positive action. The mainstream drugs dealer ideals of the past decennium are changing (Dehue, Wolffers, Bouma, Pelsser, Grootheest, etc). Our government stopped paying for benzodiazepines, cut antidepressiva, takes off labels and pushes alternatives while huge pharmaceutical research facilities (Organon, Abbott) are dismantled. This is very fortunate and is the way to get positive change which I approve, but knowing a Tech much more effective and a century ahead of its time, I’ll stick to that.

    Scientology was a free subject and hopefully stays that way. Because it’s free no government can control it and thus they’re hesitant to give it tax funds as it’d empower a subject they don’t own. Top that off with Davey’s PR and know that mainstream Scientology for everyone is still a long way to go, much further than it was in the 80’s.

    • I have found that it is far more possible to have a communication with a psych in which he duplicates and understands Scientology concepts than with David Miscavige. Go figure.

      • I’m not surprised. Anyone with less crimes, evil purposes and vested interests than Davey will confront and understand Scientology better than him. Those psychs that are not paid by or turn against the powerbrokers who like to use them as a legal drug dealership, are even more open to alternative concepts, as proven every day here.

  97. MissedGarbage Watcher

    Thank you very much for telling us the truth, Mike.

  98. That was absolutely fabulous. Thank you Mike Rinder. Thank you for being one of the truth tellers.

  99. Bill Maher on Big Pharma.

    “Ask Your Doctor If Getting Off Your Ass Is Right For You”

  100. Mike, I just got around to finish listening to the whole interview. I was so impresss with your ability to explain things so it can easily be understood by Scientologists & non-Scientologists alike. No wonder you were the Spokesperson for Scientology for so long. That’s at least one thing DM did right until he goofed by taking you off post. He’s lost is our gain! Thanks a million. Sending you a big hug!

    Marie-Joe

  101. Listened to this over the weekend. Very good interview, and as someone said earlier, it had a distinct lack of internal Scientology jargon, which can confuse people who aren’t well versed in this bizarre dialect. The big bombshell for me was that Tommy Davis blew during the time of John Sweeney’s reporting for “Scientology and Me.” I don’t think this has been mentioned anywhere else but in Mike’s interview and I’m wondering what happened. How did he end up coming back AND as the golden boy Church Spokesman? It’s a shame he went back. I’d like to think that if liberated from the constant lying, he might actually have a fighting chance as a human being. As the child of a Scientology celebrity, as well as the church’s most high profile spokesperson (possibly ever), his defection could do serious damage, far more than anyone before him, I think, including Mike and Marty. Anyone know how to make that happen? Surely Mike knows what buttons to push, having worked with him in that time when he was so green…

  102. RJ and Friends, this is an excellent springboard to drugs-n-MDs.
    http://www.propublica.org/topic/dollars-for-doctors
    We really have few “psychs” in my area per capita, but let me tell ya, we’ve got boatloads of psychotropic drugs around.

  103. Thanks Tara.

    This is actually the approach CCHR should have used instead of the confrontational approach they choose to take against Elli Lilly.

    (One would think that Dave’s buddies the Feschbecks were trying to short sell their stock or something…..

    Naaaaaw)

    Anyway great site Tara well worth reading.

    • RJ~I was quite good friends with and auditor of an ER MD who occasionally got the “psychiatric patient” under that “automatic drug ’em policy” and come to find out, he’d had a whopping 5 hours of instruction on psychiatric info. FIVE hours. He and I even went through which psychotropic drugs would be better (less harmful) than others to give during a psychotic break. He and I also worked out a handling that DID NOT include drugs through ER. These guys (ER docs) are totally effect of AMA in most cases.

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