Follow up discussion on Tiziano’s Stages of Disconnection:
My name is Peter Czaika and is a surprise for me that Mr. Mark Rathburn and Mike Rinder are not anymore in the SO. That Mike Rinder isn´t anymore in the SO Just found this out on the 25th IAS anniversary and with Ex I.G.-Ethik few months ago when I searched in the internet, since I´m in wiesbaden germany short time. If they could give me their e-mail address would be good. If I have the courage I would to communicate with them.
You can get Marty’s email address pretty mich as a blind person, thru this website. Good Luck. As well, you can get Mike’s.
Hello Peter, magyar vagy? ha igen irjal. Erzsebet.
Marthy and Mark are very good guys I myself was in the novement of Indept European early days of split and break away from the Church
not sure if Know you. from my time in Europe many many years .
would like to point out that at the end of Marty’s video, the option to view, ‘Mike and Christie’s wedding’ is a different Mike and Christie lest the next Freedom issue headline be: MIKE RINDER IS A BIGAMIST.
Well Freedumb Magazine is known for it’s high quality articles.
It WAS a nice wedding though I couldn’t recognize any of the people! H
Marty and Mike,
So here we have ‘enforced dis-connection’ on the one hand, and ‘enforced connection’ on the other, both dramatized by the CofM. This is a classic ‘maybe’. That is, it’s the middle ground of ‘can’t reach-can’t withdraw’.
This whole ‘can’t reach-can’t withdraw’ thing IS something that is described as ‘insanity’. In early tapes LRH gives this description of the state of mind of feeling ‘insane’. It IS a manifestation and a key component to the state of mind of ‘insanity’. (The later discoveries of ‘can’t reach-can’t withdraw’ are expressed as ‘must stop-can’t stop’ even with all the overts as solutions to stopping that which one is mocking up to stop – in other words on the other side of ‘stop’ is the thing one is trying to stop, still there.)
DM is nuts, and even nuttier relative to you two. How? He ‘must reach’ you with stuff like the control mechanisms you describe in this video, however, every reach/attempt at control he makes, you then expose for its disgustingness, which turns around and lets him know he ‘can’t reach’. But he ‘must reach’ and he ‘can’t withdraw’ either. How come he ‘can’t withdraw’? Obviously if he does, you two are going to keep right on exposing him and breaking down his suppressive control over the lives of beings and corruption of the subject and perversion of the Church to his own malignant ends.
He’s in a position where he must reach/can’t withdraw, can’t reach/must withdraw and all this adds up to is he’s utterly insane and insaner each day.
Today’s video – he’s going nuts somewhere, the body in a physical manifestation of his R/Ses banging around flailing at some person in the room or anybody close.
His ‘enforced dis-connection’ and ‘enforced connection’ are just a manifestation of his insanity.
Very true, Jim. Perhaps to handle it, more grounding solutions are needed – grounding the cars, chairs, beds, desks etc. in addition to the handles already installed at the Int Base.
Yes, I suppose in one way or another, DM is an adjested(sic), grounded guy.
So, so true. This also shows in tracking down every address or phone you have ever had. I have had mail sent to an address I have not used since 1971. Knowing the person living there and I was asked why this came to them. This is also another display of enforced connection. Just try to get off a mailing list.
This is another display of the insane actions occuring. We could list all outpoints from the Data Series and I don’t think you and I could create a series of events that could encompass what we can observe is occurring.
Data series is a study in logical thinking. There is NO logical thinking possible. If one truly thought Mike was a true SP then why try to keep him in comm with the OT’s in his family. Firstly, Mike isn’t an SP. Secondly, no one really wants him in comm with his family. What is wanted is just the ability to control and push buttons. Truly Independent there is no control as he just stepped out of their game.
Reminds me of all the posts of staff who want to route out, then ethics tries to force them to stay. If the person doesn’t want to be there then how do they qualify as they are not there on their own determinism. A type of PTSness making the person not eligible for auditing or training. Why try to force them into a location in space. Clean up any OW’s, any MU’s have the person do conditions of what is greatest good for them (without the fixed idea that it has to include staying in the SO or it is an incorrect doubt formula) and let them go after that if that is their desire.
Just another example of nonscientology. Neither you nor I will find any LRH references to support this – we can only find references to explain the insanity of it. The type of thing I believe LRH wanted us to understand, not something to apply to change situations.
Communication is between terminals and it is alive. It is not enforced nor inhibited. It is itself and communication is the universal solvent. When one stops true communication we know this person did not want any solvent, did not want any duplication, did not want any understanding and did not want any expansion of that being on any dynamic. Suppression in one of its varied forms is all it is.
Jim and SA – both, great posts!
DM’s unhandled personal case, he’s dramatizing upon all around him, protected in his “only one” elevated position, protected by the admin system he’s climbed to the top of, from which no one internally can dislodge him.
So, good Scientology, applied by better Scientologists OUTSIDE his zone of control, I support all that you independents can DO and write and share, that will unseat David Miscavige.
He’s so NOT a Class 8 nor OEC/FEBC, which was LRH’s command intention for all Sea Org members, per the Flag Ship Order called “Command Intention” which was one of my “bible” policies that I always (and still unconsciously) apply or judge ALL of Scientology’s last 53 years worth of Sea Org leaders.
You can’t have a non tech person at the “top”, or in the top councils.
An administratively bureaucratic run Scientology movement would HAVE to have way more Class 8s, Class 12s, and genuinely gifted “auditors” and “case supervisors” in the top admin posts, so as to KNOW what the guts of Scientology is really all about. But that’s not gonna happen in a short period, it takes years to get that to happen, but DM is so far from being able to see this, recognize himself as a no case gain, recognize that he’s NOT building the movement UP with leadership who ARE trained and actual real Class 8s or higher.
Someone on another thread talked about Martin Samuels and Paul Armstrong being Class 8s in the COSMOD success era, to me that’s a case in point.
Places in Scientology history where there’s been stretches of “orgs” (or missions) with strong tech, applied to members’ benefit, thrived, and DM’s never experienced nor recognized nor appreciates that.
Some of Ralph Hilton’s comments on DM’s case dramatizations as effecting Scientology history are some of the best I’ve read.
The movement members should be helped to break out of their obligated allegiance to him as leader, and because he’s so far from LRH’s vision of the Flag Ship Order “Command Intention”. And he is NOT building up the movement’s top ranks leadership as LRH’s writings have laid out.
Remember the Int Base staff statuses. Imagine if all at the Int Base were Class 8s, or higher, and fully admin trained!
DM is simply a poor role model. And plays “busy” and rewrites history to justify him NOT following LRH’s most important longrange admin orders to the top ranks.
The three of you are a living example of ethics, responsibility and freedom.
I wonder how much copper wire a billion dollars will buy?
Idle org, Yes I fully support your first statement .
On your second statement we do have more than a precedent on this ” how much copper wire a billion dollars will buy” in that the telecom sector had many comapnies laying dark fiber in the ground and underseas a decade ago in the hopes”if you build it they will come” .
Well, we saw what happened to this scam where stockholders lost their shirts and the CEOs ran to the bank with their divested share money before the public knew the truth.
In addition the huge unbearable cost of lighting the dark fiber optic cables with the cooling systems needed along with it made it very unworkable much like the cost of the new Idle org buildings are now and going to be.
This to me is obvious where DM’s is going to be seen as the idiot that he is aside from his sick impulses he operates off.
What his undeclared but ongoing war with the existing(what’s left) public & misguided staff misses to destroy the current ongoing economy will accomplish.DM must be short for DooM of the church of $!
What an apt name for a blog entry, “Enforced Connection.” That is exactly what the Church is doing. “You must stay connected to us, or you will lose all.” Absolutely sinister.
DM is nuttier than squirrel poop.
Amazing !!! This is exactly what IJC is trying to do with me with all those nice messages, review comm-ev which could be done… They even had my daughter contacting some of my family to get my phone number.
She is in Australia, joined the SO without me knowing about it. She is not even 18. Now I am asked to send them a communication to request of review comm-ev to help me. I even had a guy (scientologist) sending me email asking me what I was doing …. I told him I was declared but he is working on his liability so he doesn’t care lol !!! weird as he is connecting with me. He is trying to get informations from me. Of course, I won’t answer him.
Well Christie, Mike and Marty, I want to thank you for all you are doing here!!!
Yes First !!!!????
The attempts to enforce connection with something one wants nothing to do with are getting more and more frantic. In the end they will offer money to stay a “member of the church”.
I am so sorry to hear about your daughter eman. The coercion of children to give up the best part of their young lives under false pretenses, in order to further the corrupt practices of current managements, is one of the most utterly despicable aspects of the whole charade.
I hope you find a way to reach out to your daughter, and get her the hell out there before the evil taint of life in the SO does damage to her well being or worse.
Well that pretty much sums it up.
“Scientology” as applied by the Church these days has nothing to do with spiritual gain and every thing to do with manipulating and controlling others.
Marty, Mike and Christie, Its the old ‘catch 22’. Damned if you do and Damned if you don’t. I think keeping people in confusion keeps people from doubt. DM doesn’t want people in doubt. When you’re in confusion you’re very easy to control. Doubt presents problems. There’s no doubt where you guys are. It ain’t no where near confusion or doubt. How bout ‘Power’? Love
Sarge~As usual, you are absolutely right. Keep as many in confusion for as long as you can. Look at the boatloads of crazy data on the net.
I’ve been in the confusion funk of divorce/family law having nothing to do with CofM. It’s suppressive and there is no way to know all the data they throw at you. All you can do is hold a position and stick to it no matter what gets thrown your way.
Mike, well done on holding your position. Let them spin around you as they will. They’re spinning out of control.
You’re standing strong.
Nice to see you all doing well.🙂
I loved this video – just sitting around in the kitchen shooting the breeze. Thanks for inviting us in. Compared to the Int Management events of the early 1990’s, you guys look better than ever and have really high ethics presence.
Excellent interview–thank you all! Yes, you (and all of us out) didn’t disconnect from them, THEY have disconnected from you (and each of us, where this has happened).
What loved one is going to choose an *organization* over their family
and loved ones? Answer: Almost none, unless *a* person is seriously abusive, which leaving this organization and speaking the truth if FAR from that.
All this is boils down to: “Attempts to manipulate, control, information gathering”.
Marty: “You’ve gotta make a decision whether you want to plan their
game and be under their control. You don’t have to…. comply”
I think it boils down to one question, to any and all lurking, still “in”:
IS THIS **HONESTLY** WHAT ~YOU~ GOT INTO SCIENTOLOGY TO DO?
THIS IS IT??
“IS THIS **HONESTLY** WHAT ~YOU~ GOT INTO SCIENTOLOGY TO DO? THIS IS IT??”
The question is:
Why did David Miscavige get into the church of scientology?
AT Cause .Bloody Good question.
The family orginally were at St Hill Years ago.
The Fact is Now He DM has been taken over ( and that I don’t go into the Who’s and By ) but he and he alone is responsible as he The Chairmen is to blame and is to bare any and all for destroying the Set up orginally by LRH for what now goes on within the Church of Scientology. He DM has changed that .
And he DM has made it known how he and he alone runs it and under what terms and HE has casued that disaster.He nothing more than Insane .
Being the son of a SCNist is actually a perfect cover, right? One should investigate if he was implanted (PDH or similar) the one or other way BEFORE he joined SCN.You see the troubles are not resolving so go Earlier!! History of illness,dentist, operations during highschool or almost at the end of. ARC
I agree SW.
A PDH/Plant check of “The Man Behind Behind Scientology” would be quite revealing.
Maybe he just hated it all and took revenge for being put into scientology by his parents.
((Sorry for the caps, but YES!~ I *am*..in a sense…. Screaming that🙂🙂
Great interview, great video. I´m loving it.
You all tree: Christie, Mike and Marty look so great, relaxed, happy and enjoying what you are doing. This is a real interview, free communication, free thinking, answering the question openly, freely with no reservation, and not one of those phoney churchy interviews.
This entire connection-disconnection weird “game” is so insane by now, that I just could`t imagine to make it more complicated, twisted, off track and basic purpose.
I really got sometimes the idea, this guys in the church who are promoting and trying to enforce it, must be stuck in some Dark Ages, total failure whole track engram.
They just didn`t realise we are in the 21st century information age.
You are increasing the pressure on David Miscavige and his regime so much, I can almost hear his little brain is boiling by now and is close to explode.
Keep on going.
PLEASE continue with the exposure.
You are on the right way.
Sorry Marty, but I couldn’t understand your last sentence at the end of the interview, when you all tree laughing so heartily. What did you say??
He asked if we had a good time while we were there visiting.
“Did you all have fun down here?”
A Scientology joke:
DM: Yvonne (DM’s driver), I have to get to LA right away!
Yvonne: I’m sorry, Sir, you can’t leave the Base.
DM: What? Why?
Yvonne: Sir, you’re grounded!
Knee-slapin’ fun, Jeff!
I’ve got one:
Yvonne: Sir!!!… SIR……..!!!!!
Yvonne (followed by dozens of police officers): Copper’s EVERYWHERE, sir!!!
DM: I know!!! I had it installed YEARS ago!!!
Now I know why copper prizes have skyrocketed these years!!
I just came back from Phoenix via Sedona, today. I have to tell you, as I gazed over at the Camelback Mountains where LRH had a home, I could almost still feel him there. Then once into Sedona, the natural beauty and spiritual energy from the theta there really sent me into a wonderful place. And you know what? It finally hit me. Almost three years now after disconnecting from the C of M, I am starting to fully sense and use my regained ability to perceive and to experience the fruits of those perceptions without fear of invalidation from some 16 year old ethics terminal who is barking what DM tells them to bark, or from some wacked out reg who thinks that ALL money should be spent on services.
Now, you ask ask, what does that have to do with THIS thread and the subject thereof?
I will tell you what it has to do with it: When I use to read and listen to videos with Mike, Marty and others going over the sad behavior of the C of M, with all the attendent malarky from lawyers, etc., I use to fear that such would be impossible to overcome and that we would all be stopped in some way from being free to practice as we wish. But, today I realized that such will NEVER happen. And it goes back to the feeling I had today. It was the feeling of how much power a person can wield when he knows how, and when in the hands of good people, it can overcome the Black Dianetics we see being practiced in the C of M.
We are going to make it. They dont stand a chance. They have lost and dont even know it. Our power goes beyond court rooms and stale lawyers, disconnections and abusive punch-happy execs who have small penis’ and need to hit others to feel they are bigger. We are WAY beyond them. WAY WAY beyond them.
In fact I think we could STOP writing about the abuses, etc., and just start sharing the wins from the independent field…and that ALONE will carry us to heights that LRH would be PROUD to see happen. Those still “in” will sense and see what they are missing.
Okay, I will stop. Just wanted to share this day. And also wanted to say that Mike, Marty, Chistie, and all those who stood up and said, “NO MORE”, you have made the difference. You have helped set in motion the motionless motions. DM and his raving SP drama queens have NO CHANCE to ever stop Scientology.
Mark my words. We will win.
When you get out and see what LRH wanted for you, you cannot be stopped from getting there. Damn, I am so exterior right now I could almost reach into Marty’s freezer and grab a fish. I would do it just for fun, because I hate fish otherwise.
If you are in the C of M, and reading this – take a good look – you KNOW you are supressed. You wont make it. Take it from me.
It was a day like TODAY that finally started to show me just HOW LOST I was all those years, and was just pretending to be “enlightened”. I was just parroting “OT”.
No more of that. I have arrived.
And to think, I have not done ANY auditing in the indy field yet. I am not sure I could handle the gains when that starts. WOW!!!
Centurion, I just Love Sedona. What a Theta place. I can tell, as my friend Veritas says, you are ‘AMing’. What a wonderful place to be, both physically and spiritually. Love
That was my 3rd location of space when I blew. at the rocks for 3-5 hours, awesome place.
Thank you sarge….. Yes. AMing!
Your comment was very much appreciated. Today was a very special day for me, made even moreso by your words.
Cogito Ergo Sum
Cent, As my Guru ‘Popeye’ told me ‘I yam what I yam’. Knowing that you Yam makes me happy. Love
I’m with you Big C!
I can totally dig why the Ol’man picked Phoenix and the area around there for his first exteriorization processes.
So much space!
(I mean the only thing you could possibly run into is the occasional Saguaro Cactus)
Yes RJ…..You nailed it. The area just exudes a certain space. It must have been almost a paradise back in the less populated 50’s. And you know, in Sedona, it almost feels like a mini-cleared planet. The people there, by and large, are almost existing in the pre stages of a cleared earth.
Sorry for all the enthusiastic words in this thread, but after seeing Mike, Marty and Christie in that video, and seeing how they stay at total cause over the attempted supression in their lives, it just inspires me to inspire others – just work towards that universe LRH said we could create. It is there. Today, I started to exist in that place. It was WONDERFUL.
I know now, without doubt, that DM is NOT interested in getting people to that place I entered today. And that is tragic.
No need to apologize for your enthusiasm Big C.
I totally understand about the magic of mystical Sedona.
Thank you RJ, and all for your replies and your support.
I think what I was realizing was what LRH told us:
“A philosophy can only be a route
to knowledge. It cannot be knowledge
crammed down one’s throat. If one has
a route, he can then find what is true for
him. And that is Scientology.”
—L. Ron Hubbard
And on that day I found what was true for me, after having what was NOT true force fed to me under unrecognized duress for so many years. And the answer to my problems was not more sec checks, it was just to find the truth for myself, as LRH said we should.
All of you helped me find my way. I love you all.
Fire song bright day
Free and young the sky.
I have been laughing in wind
speaking from the sea.
Flight of immortal dawn
breaks from my eyes.
Liquid immortal music of am
happy carrying the sun
in my tossing hands the sea
urns of unchanneled
mirth I spill and there is
a song of bright day, life.
Russell Salamon, 1976
Speaking of Russell — where is he? How is he? I’ve always loved his poems.
Quite the gentle giant.
I take his poems from a book I have, but last I looked, he did have a website up with poems. Here is one Google result, with contact info:
I loved reading your posts, Centurion.
Ah, those wonderful highs. So many of us are feeling that these days.
I think that the juxtaposition of the highs against the abuse help provide a platform for analysis for those individuals reading this blog but still in the church. The evaluation of a datum against a comparable datum.
A person stuck in the church wonders, what about my future as a being? This blog shows what that future will be if you stay in the church versus what it will be otherwise. Got to have a bit of both.
After a while, I think we all get tired of hearing about the abuses of der leader. But, the continuous reminders are part of the process, of which the EP are cognitions by the entire Scientology community of tech alterations, spotting the source of those alterations and the removal of obstacles to correct application of the tech (including the little rat who put them there.)
I think an interesting goal would be having an Independent-Movement picnic on the lawn in front of der leader’s current residence out in the deserts of California. Maybe for fun we could emulate football fans when their team wins a big game: tear down the goal posts–or fence, in this case.
Ich bein ein Berliner. Or some such. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
Just for fun
Cent: I agree with Michael. It would imprudent to announce, assume or imply a cessation of hostilities from that cesspool of a soul, DM, by taking the spotlight fully off him. The war ain’t over ’til that li’l shite is flushed.
However, hearing wins such as yours is also a natural part of the “Moving On Up” strategy as it does show insiders that positive gains are occurring outside DESPITE the gains having not necessarily originated from an auditing session. Call these gains rehabs or cognitions or realizing the sum of 2+2. Whatever. They are positive, pronounced and lasting – and that is important. They are yours, they are free, they are amazing!
Whether it’s the beginning of the end for DM, or, as Churchill stated “…the end of the beginning”, I do not know, but I am sure that vigilance and focus must be maintained until we hear the last gurgles of that flush.
Retro-Wins: The wins you have when you De-PTS yourself from the SPness of black tech and black admin as run by the church of David Miscavige. Wins you have when you revitalize the free theta and purpose you once had or maybe almost achieved.
I agree with Tara’s view here very logically indeed.
I’ve noticed this phenomenon myself. Think I’ll add it to my dictionary of coffee shop wisdom.
“Ich bein ein Berliner. Or some such. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”
I remember that speech too.
Was it John F Regan or Ronald Kennedy?
You sexist bastard. Cherche la femme! Who do you think gave those two boys their ideas? It was Greta Von Boobs, who serviced American presidents while in Germany during the Cold War. Americans are weak in international comprehension, so the Germans would slip their secret weapon of propaganda into the executive bed where she would whisper ideas, give subliminal messages while …. well, you know what I mean, being the sexist bastard that you are.
p.s. compressing history provides me a wonderful place to sit.
I see what you mean OUT.
Sorry for being a sexist, male chauvinist pig….
Oh by the way how many male chauvinists does it take to clean a bathroom?
That’s women’s work😉
But I digress…
Speaking of inspirational moments given by the “fairer sex” in a relation to geopolitics.
How ’bout this one:
History is what you make it.
Actually, no need to apologize for being a male chauvinist pig. Calling you a sexist bastard was a compliment. When I said, “cherchez la femme,” I was suggesting we go hunting. I’m tired of cleaning the bathrooms. My wife is just cruel. A task master without relent.
Such is the problem with worshipping another: you become other determined. Ooops! Is that what’s happening with the church of tiny arms? Granting the shrimp all that sacredness, which leads to being other-determined?
Hmmm. Seems there was a tape on the Briefing Course about that. I’ll have to look it up. Maybe write a comment.
Ah that’s what “cherchez la femme,” means!
Anyway maybe we could go hunting sometime after I figure out what to do with this ring around the bowl!
Speaking of things that live in the toilet!
Don’t you wish we could yank the handle on the little guy and watch him circle around the bowl🙂
OUT/Michael~I need to hook up with your wife for some tips…
Thanks for another great video. DM is like an octopus hanging on for dear life. You cut off one tenacle and another one comes back to try and hold on again.
Im sorry to hear about your divorce situation Mike. Just another example of Scientology under DM – It’s all about Control. It would be interesting to know how Cathy is paying for these high priced attornies on her Sea Org pay.
I agree with Tizano and this video. Any of you fence sitters out there, it’s time to stand up and be counted. Going into agreement with the control mechanisms being used by DM and his brand of Scientology is preventing your freedom and the freedom of your family and friends.
If you are afraid of losing the Bridge, it is available out here in the Independent world and you are much more likely to get On Source and In Tech Auditing out here then in DM’s scrambled Golden Age of Alter is.
Afraid of losing your family and business? That is a tough one, but think about it. Aren’t you doing them a favor by making them examine what is really going on? You know down deep they see the same outpoints you do and it is only a matter of time for them to jump ship too.
Don’t be the last man standing on the Titanic. The water is very warm out here. Come out and join us.
You will be glad you did.
I agree mostly with you, and I respect Tizanio a lot. I believe I ran into you one way or another back in the day, and you have as well my respect.
Tiziano is a true activitist as his resume’s shows time and time again.
Having said that one cannot enforce one’s belief’s on another. And this goes for basically any philosophy. You must give the Power of Choice to oneself LRH, I know has made much mention of this.
I won’t explain my own situation here, and many insiders know what this is. But Tiziano’s “Nudge” is teriffic and I hope many will examine this and make the appropiate move.
That’s my take.
BR: I didn’t see Mark as trying to enforce any belief on anyone.
When you’re in a house burning down, there is no disgrace
in yelling “Fire!”
Knowing what he (and many others now out) know, and NOT saying
anything about it, is far worse than pointing out the facts he has, imnsho.
But I understand your views. If any one of us out could figure out THE thing that helps people wake up and see the truth, it’d be worth *tons*.
I now know that’s true for many other abusive groups, too, as over the last few years, they’ve been writing me, too. Meantime, as I see it, each person does their best to help those lurking look at things that are covered up, while “in”.
I agree, Tizianio’s “nudge” is terrific, also. This entire Blog is helping more people than can be imagined. This I know for a fact.🙂
A mentioned we both agree on all.
I was responding to Tiziano’s Nudge.
I think we are both good. And hope so.
In 2008 my husband and I divorced following massive 3P and out-tech activities at Flag.
What followed was 2 years of hell.
In an effort to control my ex-husband I was thoroughly villified by trusted terminals and friends (including Sea Org Members) who were under the yoke of the ‘church’ at the time. The result of this was not only a destroyed marriage, but a destroyed family and 3 children left momentarily without their father, such was the acrimony created and the atmosphere of terror and distrust.
In January 2009 I decided to fight back. I ‘came out’ on Marty’s blog with some of my story.
As a result of this my husband was ambushed in Clearwater by a group of OTs and cornered into a meeting with Kathy True. His new girlfriend was dragged in crying and begging him to disconnect from me or she would have to cease her relationship with him. He refused.
Kathy, Mike Stutter, Hansuli and other stooges for DM hounded my ex husband for over a year. My ex-husband was told that he would now have to do A-E steps and lower conditions from Treason in light of the fact that he refused to disconnect from me (A-E steps are the new handling for people refusing to disconnect). Next he was ordered to fly to England and report back on my activities to OSA as part of his conditions. He was also ordered to take steps to prevent my friend at the time Chrissie Pearlman from obtaining a visa to stay in the UK. Again he refused.
My ex-husband and old friends were interrogated as to the relationship I have with my father-in-law in an attempt to find weaknesses whereby my children and I could possibly be cut off from the rest of the family.
Our children were mysteriously ‘disconnected’ from by every friend at Greenfields School while the DSA at Saint Hill and the headmaster at the school attempted to convince me that in the space of one week, every parent had somehow heard that I was ‘disaffected’ and had simultaneously ordered their children to disconnect (disconnection being the new handling for the children of ‘disaffected’ Scientologists)
When the above activities failed, the president at CCInt contacted my father-in-law directly and intimated that she had some serious concerns about his family and asked him to come in and see her. He isn’t even a Scientologist. I know about this because he showed me the text message from the President at CCInt and told me he suspected that the church was trying to manipulate his relationship with me (GREAT PR BY THE WAY!!!)
Two years on we are all recovering and OSA has run out of amunition. My ex-husband and I are back in ARC and the effects on our own lives and our children beginning to be repaired.
The damage can never be fully undone but I wanted to give you all a brief synopsis under the subject of forced connection to illustrate the evil that is done where families as well as money are used as currency in DM’s regime.
Also I wanted to let it be known that these SPs truly have no power other than to restimulate and cause fear.
DM, Kathy True and all of your OSA buddies – you should know that it is pointless to mess with me or my family. I am not afraid of you. My ex-husband is not afraid of you. My children are not afraid of you. And so you will continue to lose. Every time.
Eventually, as more people cease to be afraid, as they come forward and tell their stories, the few remaining victims you have left will begin to see that the your weapons are merely smoke and mirrors. These tactics can only succeed as long as enough people agree that it is possible to wield any power over them.
We don’t subscribe to this point of view and we won’t stop until we have won back our rights to our friends and families. The tighter you grasp desperately to keep your hostages the harder we will fight to free them.
Our love for them far outwieghs your greed.
Oops – those dates would be 2009 and 2010. Has the so much happened in this one year???
Lifetimes have happened in this one year. I’m really, really pleased to see you persist and win.
“. . .as more people cease to be afraid, as they come forward and tell their stories . . .”
Indeed, such as the org Snr C/S who recently realized which side of theta the butter was on and is now an independent Scientologist, free to think and do as he pleases.
Wonderful story, Sam.
Sam – The pure and utter power of intention. First the decision then you went A to B. The truth and ethical integrity behind the intention left no opposition a chance. You simply melted the MESTy force idea before you with a true honest decision for optimum survival.
You are an incredible role model. I know this will stand as a testament to others that lurk and peek and follow this blog. Count me as one of the “we” that will fight to free all. Stand and hold the line as you did and we all will win! Truth is on your side and only lies support the opposition. Truth will melt the lies and win hands down every time.
You kick ass girl!! I think it is so cool that your ex-husband stood his ground too. I assume that he is an Indie?
My ex has always gone his own way. I would love it if he connected up with this group and availed himself of the love and support I have experienced here. I think right now his focus is just on flourishing and prospering and putting his life back together. Each to his own. He knows where we are if he needs us.
Sam, I am very proud to be your friend. As much as I would like to jump on my fiery white steed and wield my sword and save you from the bad guys, I know that YOU need to do it, not me. I think I owe you a story?
Hope you know I Love you. Sarge
Don’t mess with Sam and her girls!
I’ve seen a few dead bodies as a result.😉
Thank you for sharing the whole sequence and your RESILIENCE.
This will inspire those that follow…
I am afraid of you; and I’m fearless.
Marty, Sapere Aude, Christie, Karen, Tony, Joe and Jim,
Much of my strength came in this last year from knowing I wasn’t ‘alone’.
I thank each and every one of you on this blog from the bottom of my heart for being here and communicating and for sharing your own experiences, advice, cognitions and wins. It has made all the difference.
Sam, Marty, Christie, Karen, Tony, Joe, Jim, Scott and all unnamed. I know how much this interaction makes all the difference. I started a Repair of Past Ethics at my origination with a dear friend of mine. I really took to heart the education and study step in the beginning. When I study something I can be a hard core student and dig. I did. It has resulted in my starting to post here as I never did that before.
I know what the group adds to this action. On RPE you look into the past. When you look in a darkened well under moonlight – you do see a reflection of you, somewhat. The key is to not confuse what is you and what is the reflection. Small confusions stick you at that point. Requires another trip to well to see which is which – the real or the reflection. Then get up and walk another step. Posting and helping others see the truth amongst the noise and confusions is part of my making up the damage. Is this always easy – no. But, would I want others to have similar wins to mine — hell yes!!!
I currently can’t just go get a session. But I can get my own group auditing – here. It is here and it is now. My case changes, my tone changes up and down, my cognitions sometimes so fast I can’t hardly enjoy one because the next has started. Each builds upon the last. A never ending stream. Sometimes I cry, sometimes I laugh outloud, sometimes I just smile like I did when I had a floating TA for weeks on my OT levels and couldn’t get back into session. If isn’t a brand new win it seems then it is a rehab of an old win buried in the darkside of the void. Sometimes I see I was near the even horizon but fortunately I gain enough speed to avoid the spiral. I don’t try to hold on to them, just speed up as possible and enjoy the moment. Thanks to all of you out there in the nether regions of the net, no matter where you are or who you are that are part of this unfolding – I am amongst friends.
Correction – at the end there I meant to say “I see I was near the event horizon but fortunately gained enough speed to avoid the spiral. ”
That is the point near a black hold when you are sucked into it and cannot in any way change the flow and get away. When you escape the event horizon you pull yourself away from the pull of the black hole.
Sapere Aude — ** W*O*W ** Thanks for sharing your wins! You win — we all win. Hallelujah!!
I looked up your stage name. Super insightful. We’re all just making each other’s lives richer. What a kick.
Sam, what a story! Saddened by what you and your loved ones had to go through. But look at that courage, integrity and ARC! Wonderful.
That’s an amazing story Sam, thanks for sticking to your guns (and your ex too if he reads this).
What a gruesome, but ultimately wonderful, saga. I’m happy to hear your husband and you are communicating so well and the family bonds are even stronger. Go, Mama Tiger! Go, Family! Go, Theta!
What a sad situation, when genuinely one-time good people, Kathy True, Hansuelli and Mike Sutter (Linda Martiniano (Conrad/McCarthy), I remember in 1977-78 when Mike Sutter came to train as SSO for some California Org, and Linda DofT of the Flag Bu Exec College overseeing Mike Sutter’s training pointed Mike out to some FB recruiters as a good longer range potential Sea Org member, back when Mike was a naive innocent), but ALL 3 of these still good people (I’m sure they can someday come OUT of their bad ways) have allowed DM’s case to infect their own cases, and it’s just group think, dramatized, focused dramatization of DM’s case. Mike, Kathy and Hansuelli were (are) some damn nice people. This is just case, one man’s case, DM’s, who’s using the admin setup LRH built, to dramatize.
This nightmare chapter of 30 years that DM’s been getting a way with this, will come to an end.
The power position DM holds and leaks out and has changed Scientology history with, to unseat DM, and where to go next, I’m glad at least somebody is courageous enough to discuss it!
This blog is priceless and all who have the guts to speak up, THANKYOU!
The more details of history people can lay out, the better, to clean up DM’s 30 years of negative influence upon the subject.
the only good thing DM’s done is get some buildings reno’d.
It’s up to outside Scientologists to apply the practice of Scientology, it seems, so people out here are at least confident they will “not get any worse” after Scientology processing.
It is almost as if the movement is pegged at BELOW ARC Straightwire end phenomenon. Meaning inside Scientologists are NOT certain their case gain will always improved.
Whereas I observe that outside Scientology Scientologists seem truly ARC Straightwire end phenomenon achievers!
DM’s like a case gain stopper, and throws into doubt in the highest official members (OT 7s and 8s), a fear due to DM’s case dramatizations.
Scientology has to be applied in a way that does NOT threaten and throw the members into doubt about their continued “case gain.”
DM’s desire to threaten, control, leverage, and these social dramatizations are NOT what were to be the atmosphere at the “Friendliest Place In The World” Flag Land Base.
The “Linda ” you refer to is DMC’s then wife.
All I got to say, babe, is, “Jeanne d’Arc move the fuck over.”
Great post everyone!
Mike it is truly sad the lengths these pyschos will go to to try to injure you. It really sickens me.
On a more positive note I read a thread stating that the (“GAT trained”) Senior C/S Cincinatti Org recently blew and he tells of much of his story on this linked thread here. Enjoy.
Good news on the Snr. CS from Cincinatti, very recent one indeed. I read his story and it sounds very typical of Ideal Org style handlings, particularly the don’t come back until you get the money part.
Looking good guys. Just wanted to point out this snippet of theory from the PTS Rundown materials :
“The theory is that SPs are SPs because they deny Havingness and enforce unwanted Havingness. They also deny doingness and enforce unwanted doingness. They also deny beingness and enforce unwanted beingness. This is why we have never before been able to run Subjective Havingness. It collided with SPs, Overts, and Withholds on them. ”
Yep, that’s that ‘can’t/must’ stuff again. This sort of push/pull and the space of a person dramatizing it, as it spreads, makes for this wacky feeling that surrounds those involved.
The unfortunates subjected to this go more, or less, but to some degree, wonky, when in proximity to the SP. THIS is the feeling you get, this crazy franticness, when you are ‘in’ and going through DM-ology. This is the stuff we read about (the above Snr C/S Cinncinnati’s story).
Marty, Mike and Christie.
Cathy Bernardini at INT BASE probably makes $2500 to $3500 a year for her 60-80-100 hour weeks.
Yet, THE most expensive Divorce Law Firm in all of Los Angeles is hired ?
Their retaining fee of these high end Law Firms just to look over some papers can be well over $10,000 and a lot lot more for full divorce.
Who is paying this Law firm to harrass Mike ?
Is it coming out Parishioner funds…the vampire suctioned out funds ?
Cathy could not afford this kind of Law Firm on Sea Org wages.
Mike, they are asking for your financials.
Please get Cathy’s “FINANCIALS”. I would like to see you post what DM permits INT BASE slave labor to be paid.
Can you demand the “FINANCIALS” of who is paying this LAW Firm. ???
All the harassment of David Lubow on you, the Parking Lot episode, the Anonymous “phone calls” re your Home to the City for inspection and so on, I feel there is such good roadways for a HUGE amount of stuff to be entered into the Public records to show how this just more
* DM Thuggery, bullying, and HARASSMENT after Cathy’s affidavit to St. Pete Times that you were already divorced.
Mike Rinder DM orchestrated blocked divorce
The audience is listening….
The Internet will record and repeat everything all through the web.
In my final legal agreement signing document, a 14 page monstrosity, was a paragraph that at first I didn’t understand.
But a legal reading of this paragraph “explains” the church’s offer of legal help, should I need it.
The point is faithful followers are given FREE legal assistance, when confronted with the “enemies” of Scientology.
So those inside the Sea Org, get FREE, legal assistance.
AND those who sign the agreements like the one I signed (and violated), ex Sea Org can ALSO have their free church paid legal “help” if it is AGAINST the “enemy” SPs like Marty, Mike, etc.
Here’s my legal doc, and the part that applies is section 4 B in this long messy dumb doc (I hated signing all those legal docs in my years in Scn, it was such a reminder that Scientology always prepped itself to TROUNCE on you if you ever went against them, a reminder that you could LOSE IT ALL someday, sheesh):
I was such an idiot mousy person to put up with the “routing out” and legal gagging crap!
Good for all you people who just damn BLEW and bypassed this legal gagging crap!
It is amazing to watch the ease, high ARC and pan determinism shown in the video. Compare that to the subject matter data being discussed. I viewed the actions of those in the video with what was discussed. Dianetics 55 chapter on Pan-Determinism. Mike, Christie and Marty all show true Pan-Determinism.
“It is the willingness to control on any and all dynamics. And that it is not obsessive or compulsive control to own, protect or hide on any dynamic. All the ills of Earth come from an obsession to own, control, protect and hide on other dynamics that self. The true enlightenments of this world have come from willingness to be along any of the dynamics.
One of the things which gives truths to Pan-determinism is the savageness with which the aberrated attempt to drive an individual away from anything resembling Pan-determinism. This is simply an obsessive action on the part of people to climb up to Pan-determinism by force. Pan-determinism cannot be climbed by force. The ladder to that height is not made of pikes and spears, spankings and police forces. It is made of Understanding – Affinity, Reality and Communication.” LRH
Very well said.
Compare the TRs, the Mood, the Presence, the ARC level of Marty, Mike and Christie ~
The Ex-wives and Starkey on CNN “A History of Violence”.
Or just look at the Church as an entity. Look at the attitudes and tone level. Look at the Church with that bit of LRH in mind.
Awesome and timely quote Sapere Aude.
Does anybody have a lot of experience with Ethics tech? I’ve had wonderful results with it, but generally stuff from non-e up. Those higher conditions are magical. I’ve never felt good about the lower conditions though. I was more or less forced through them on various situations in the Church a few times and it was worse each time, most recently with the EO interpreting things for me and the CS approving/disapproving my conditions and invalidating me until I just “got through it” robotically.
For example- if you complete doubt and change groups, why would you do liability? Or, conversly when I was still in I would complete an enforced “Doubt Condition”, and then do an enforced “Liability” complete with amends (in recent years that means $$$), for a THOUGHT with no doingness, or for LOOKING at something such as an internet site.
Maybe I just need to go get the book and work with that. Sometimes I think the computer messes up my thought- the electronics, I think it puts out some EMF waves or something that makes it harder for me to work on stuff like this. I need paper and pen and a quiet room.
I have lots of experience handling ethics on people and generally got very good results.
I never enforced conditions.
If you have had enforced conditions and “ethics” with no results then you are a candidate for repairing past ethics conditions. Read that HCOPL and you might have some cogs. The RPEC tech is almost a lost tech now.
As far as having wins with lowers I have and have seen others have major wins on them. It just has to be the correct condition.
My guess is that non-standard ethics was rampant in the Sea Org and also when trying to get onto auditing lines.
Anyways it is a bit hard to go over all this on email lines if you want to call me sometime I would be happy to help. Marty has my phone number.
I had to ack somebody off the phone line last summer when I was talking to a very apathetic Flag MAA. He told me to do confusion and I said I wasn’t confused I was kicked off post but I’ll do whatever it takes. No interest. He read to me “Find out where you are” which is I believe the wording for confusion and then added,
“The ‘where’ of course doesn’t necessarily have to do with location.”
I just comm lagged for 10 seconds and it was a dead phone line then acked him and got off the line fast, partly because his main point was to act as a reg, he was trying to get me to buy stacks of Way to Happiness. I told him it would be better if I picked them up from an org while on the road because I have no easy way to get them otherwise. He persisted, making it clear what his motivation was, “buy them from me at Flag”. He wanted to overnight them to a “drop point” if necessary at a convenience store on the highway. Another point was that he wanted me to start working on liability while handling confusion, thus the reg cycle. The point isn’t that commonplace 3rd dynamic abberation exists at Flag, but it’s the modern culture where the e/o’s there are double hatted as regges, seemingly under pressure with quotas, so great is Dave’s hunger to promote to in-house public.
This reminds me, I used to sit in Ft. Harrison reception on the upper area there by the desks and reg money from the t and p lists to get older versions of books and tapes to libraries in India. I met Debbie Cook, she had a little meeting with us, and to her credit told us to stop regging just any old materials to be put in libraries because it should be stuff like Problems of work and SOS etc., not R&D vols. Bridge under Dave’s orders is putting R&d vols and History of man in public libraries, I’ve never quite been on board with that so I took a liking to her because she had a brain. But anyways, for one thing I started to learn how badly the field had been ARCXen by the amount of “charity” reging. I was calling CW public and some of them got mad once they sensed it was a money call. We would call all day and I was the top reg but only made a hundred bucks a day usually because the field was too tapped and pissed off to give me more than $25-100 at a time . There was sometimes a loss expressed from their end on giving me the money too. One guy said he’d just paid 30 grand on credit so fuck off. Across the way Laurie Webster from Superpower would be there with her headset walking in circles and reging all day too. If we simply reached out to help by selling services and backed off selling materials to in-house public there’d be a massive influx of interest because reges wouldn’t feel like fakes. When you have to fake caring about the person in front of you it doesn’t always work well. Public always responded well when I let them know I cared about their bridge progress and stopped talking about library donos, which I did sometimes when I sensed this is more of a chaplain cycle that’s needed. If that’s done then they’ll give you their left arm.
I mean two summers ago
“With that memory fresh in mind, I blew Flag off as long as I could and finally arrived in March 2010. Of course, upon arriving there was the obligatory Ethics Cycle of all of the “out-Tech” I had been committing since 2008, replete with more Lower Conditions. As part of the Liability formula, I had the arbitrary order to get a set of Advanced Clinical Course Lectures donated to Cincinnati Qual. That’s $5,000. I don’t Reg – never have and never will. I’m a Red-on-white guy and “stupidly” take “no” for an answer. After 3 weeks of daily begging virtually every Scientologist I have ever known in 18 years, I finally got that last $50 donation. 26 different people donated to this cycle. It was one of the worst 3-week stretches of my life. It seemed everyone was maxed out due to Idle org and IAS donations. I swear, if I was making more than $150 per week, I would have paid for it myself!”
Just read this from the Snr C/S from Cinn, similar thing.
The MAA said: “The ‘where’ of course doesn’t necessarily have to do with location.”
That’s exactly what it has to do with, location. The viewpoint viewing dimension – it’s in the Factors. It IS location – present location – the present viewpoint and what it’s viewing – compared to a past viewpoint and what WAS viewed.
This was a Flag MAA!! He has no idea what his basic tech means. He has no idea what Scientology actually is. A Flag MAA!
Jim, the other part of the condition is doing a locational and comparing where you are right now to places you’ve been in the past so it’s plain as day, but I wasn’t in the mood to to get into it with him, I hoped he got the hint from the comm lag.
I get you get it.
The ‘where’ means ‘where’ as in location. It isn’t a significance, it’s where, as in there. There is a wall, there is the lamp, there is the book, there is my shoe, there is the yard, there is the cat – I’m here, it’s there – who is looking at it? Next condition.
This is SIMPLE stuff, yes, but very effective. It’s the Factors:
“3. The first action of beingness is to assume a viewpoint.
4. The second action of beingness is to extend from the viewpoint, points to view, which are dimension points.
5. Thus there is space created, for the definition of space is: viewpoint of dimension. And the purpose of a dimension point is
space and a point of view.”
Space – location – and a point of view – relative to dimension.
Next condition. You are.
The Factors above describe ‘are-ness’ too. “The first action of beingness…” etc.
In all my years in the CofS, the majority of MAAs never knew the correct and applicable definiton of ‘liability’. Almost all thought it meant you owed something, or were in debt, that kind of definition.
I’ve often wondered if this is the crashing mu and the source of the present situation, because clearly, earlier on, someone somewhere was subject to the influence of an enemy, and was never properly handled on it.
My observation only.
The eval that led to KTL was called the World Out Of Comm (WOOC). This was a limited distribution LRH evaluation that addressed among other things the fact that there were staff/SO members doing things, bizarre things, and claiming it was part of Scientology materials.
It would appear the Conditions Formulas have experienced the same bizarre treatment.
I do recall those days, the eval was done in ’78 at WHQ in La Quinta. LRH had gotten some auditors in from Flag and Pac, forming them up as “NWC” (new world corps) to train them to deliver a new rundown he called the Humongous rundown in that time period. KTL and LOC were the handlings to the why he found in not being able to train these auditors. The rundown’s name was changed to Super Power later and LRH was convinced and told me directly that if it was applied correctly to all the staffs, and public later it would enable planetary clearing to occur.
This is over 30 years ago and Dear Leader is still working on the glitzy buildings to deliver this, having disbanded NWC some years ago. One can guess he would not want to empower anyone. One of the first rundowns has to do with repair of past Ethics and addressed matters of misapplication of ethics and justice, wrong conditions & application of the tech in the time track. Not sure if any Indy auditors have this and can deliver it, one of Dear Leader’s first favorite carrot for millions of donation to a building. Actually perhaps second as donations for the Ship was the first.
You’ve pointed up a critical fact: Super Power has as part of it the handling of bad ethics/justice. Those materials, developed on the heels of the WOOC eval, are anaethma to DM’s regime. They can never see the light of day, in any kind of standard manner, in his SP Building. If so, he’ll be unmocked. No wonder there isn’t any Super Power, or New World Corps, and even if this dork ever does get the MEST/SP Building up – it cannot be actual LRH developed, standard Super Power RDs delivered that will be available there. It won’t happen. Hey, wait a sec…it ISN’T happening, duh!!!
I remember being briefed somewhat on Super Power when I worked at NWC in the mid 80’s and there was no mention then of needing an elaborate building complex costing millions of dollars in order to deliver it.
Some of the recent promo I’ve seen with special anti grav chairs designed by NASA and wide screens that move in and out make it seem more like an R6 implant than a series of auditing rundowns with world clearing in mind which just shows how perverted the Gov Approved version of Scientology has become.
Maybe Miscavige will be the first to receive the dubious “benefits” of the “new improved” version along with his elitist gang of “Corner Stone Members”?
Thanks , actually our resident Tech compilations, Dan the man has an awfully great and complete article written on the subject of the Superpower rundown on Steve’s site: http://www.scientology-cult.com/super-power.html
The complexity of the R6 implant type of machines as hyped by Dear Leader is less than 1/12 of the rundown for doing drills on the 57 perceptics a person has, which might or might not be needed depending on the case. However complexity and high tech, smoke & mirrors, flash & bang and fake pillars are typically Dear Leader camouflaging the strong taste and smell of Kool aid and Enforced connection by promise of one’s eternity while increasing his mest and havingness. After 30 years of suppressing and sitting on the LRH discovered tech in order for planetary clearing to occur, the having to have glitzy building and mest is just another stop.
There was no intention of getting Superpower applied to all SO and staff, nor releasing it to the public. It was just a PR move by DM during the Lisa Mcpherson trials in Clearwater in the late 90’s, & to accept millions in donations to build a huge behemoth and buy & renovate more properties.
The bottom line is that LRH did come up with the tools to achieve planetary clearing. The actions of Dear Leader re-doing the grade chart, basics, direct donations, idle orgs, and those written up completely by OT8s in declaring their independence are just arbitraries and black dianetics so people get worse and the planet does not get cleared in order to move on up higher, which many of us signed our next billion years away to achieve.
I was at the Universal Amp when his Satanic Majesty was hawking that ugly monstrosity to the LA public!
We had this torrential rain storm on the night of the big “release” that turned City Walk into a flood zone.
You might as well have called the area Lake Universal.
Anyway I had this sudden urge to leave the “event” when HSM hit the stage but some low life in the seat behind me had his big fat knee cap strategically placed on my pony tail (I had real long hair back then) so I couldn’t even move my head never mind the rest of the bod.
I’d almost wished I’d brought my Bowie Knife so I could have extricated myself but I spent a good ten years growing it.
So the only relief or release I got during the whole extravagant extravaganza was when the retard stood up for the prescribed standing ovation which I never bothered standing up for ’cause I was way at the back anyway (I mean I got better seats at a Rolling Stones concert but since I wasn’t a patron or whatever me and my wife were parked in the cheap seats) where there wasn’t any OSA goons.
Meaning it was pretty safe to give the occasional Bronx cheer to all this ostentatiousness.
Anyway after the event I wrote this long “Things That Shouldn’t Be Report” (that Marty probably has framed somewhere) on how much a waste of money and resources that this useless Mausoleum was.
You could say I wasn’t with the program.
So sometime after that I got to sample the new Truth Rundown and was ostracized to the purgatory of the “disaffected”.
Sorry for the rant but I’m just recalling another one of those what the fuck moments that moved me to where I am now😉
The other one was the penultimate point between the event and roll back hell when I asked for the exact reference HSM was operating on regarding all this.
Like you know what policy or maybe even a directive of some kind?
And was “referred” to the torturous event I just attended!
Jim, you’ve made this incorrect assertion before and you need to be corrected.
First point of correction is your continuous “interpretations” of tech as in this issue of what “where” means. A trained sup or auditor wouldn’t make this error and really you should refer to course sup materials, auditor’s code materials and study tech for starts…on the wisdom of interpreting tech for others.
Second…re confusion formula: There can be at least a couple of different kinds of “where” to be applied in this formula and your assertion it only refers to objects is incorrect.
e.g. A dishwasher is constantly failing to get the dishes clean. Handling: have him start with Confusion (locating objects as the literal application in this case) and work his way up till able to get the dishes clean.
e.g. Take the same dishwasher (who does get the dishes clean) working at the Int. Base but yet is clueless about why he’s seeing so much craziness, out-tech, off-purpose BS…on and on.
He’s confused and going outside and looking at objects ain’t gonna get him out of the condition.
He needs to ‘find out where he is’ in order to resolve this. The only way he could possibly do that is to get true data. Our guy in this example is trapped in a destructive cult (the Sea Organization) and would have to blow to really get out of confusion. Once out he’d have to get on the Internet and connect up with people and learn where he is…i.e. a free person in the US of A. He’d have to compare that to where he ‘was’ i.e. a slave in a cult, in order to resolve the confusion.
The “where” can have to do with facts. If you want to really stretch things you could call those facts… objects themselves and look at it as a locational against those fact/objects. Data or facts orients one. They clear up confusion. That’s why word clearing is so powerful.
In my opinion you could also include significances as ‘things’ one could look at and compare against other significances and reduce ‘confusion’. It would be an ‘OT’ look at significances as ‘things’ with which to compare your own viewpoint against…but it would take a longer dissertation than space allows here to fully describe and give examples for that.
The point is there are a number of ways to apply that formula with great wins to be had.
The bigger subject here is EO’s/MAA’s…and blog posters as well, evaluating how and why and when a condition is done.
I think the safe thing to say to someone regarding the conditions formula’s is “clear your words, use them as a tool to improve your life and let me know if I can help”.
And Jim, I did the PRD and KTL and am a grad V…FYI.
It seems like you get on Jim for “interpreting the Tech” and then follow it up with a big interpretation of the tech. You should have just said that what he said doesnt fit with your interpretation of the tech.
My take on it is that your usage of “where you are at” is derived from an idiom, a slang idiom unless I’m mistaken, that may have existed at the time of writing, but I don’t think LRH would have chosen that usage. I’m pretty sure he meant location. Also, the first step of the “Expanded Confusion Formula” is a locational.
Oh, and I read everybodies responses to my posting.
I’m definitely working on my lowers now and stuff is happening. Weird stuff like key people I’ll have to handle calling me out of the blue that I havent talked to in months.
I agree DFB.
Also Vertly’s second example of the dishwasher who is doing his job despite the fact the area surrounding him was in confusion.
The way I see it.
The dishwasher is in norm op and the area he is in i.e. “Int Base” should be assigned confusion.
Vertley; I would kindly disagree. He defined and not interpreted. Jim stated “the ‘where ‘ means ‘where’ as in location. The actual formula states:
from Intro to Scn Ethics 1978 edition The Conditions page 11
“These conditions are operating states and oddly enough in the physical universe there is a formula connected with every one of these operating states. … These formulas apparently have to be followed in this universe …”
The formula of the condition is: 1. Find out Where YOU are.
The additional formula for the Condition of Confusion is:
1. Locational on the area in which one is.
2. Comparing where one is to other areas where one was.
3. Repeat Step 1.
A location on the area and compare “where”.
Further, you stated ” Second…re confusion formula: There can be at least a couple of different kinds of “where” to be applied in this formula and your assertion it only refers to objects is incorrect.” Jim didn’t assert it refers to objects. He used objects as the things he was using as location references for the person to view and locate in space.
You went on with – “The “where” can have to do with facts. If you want to really stretch things you could call those facts… objects themselves and look at it as a locational against those fact/objects. Data or facts orients one. They clear up confusion. That’s why word clearing is so powerful.
In my opinion you could also include significances as ‘things’ one could look at and compare against other significances and reduce ‘confusion’. ”
The formula is clearly “Locational on the area in which one is.”
An area is never facts or data or significances. There are confusions in study tech but that is part of study tech. This is confusion as an operating state in the physical universe. Not identical, in a data series manner, to confusion as a study tech phenomenon.
Confusion as an operating state – formula.
Confusion(s) in study – word clearing. Yes, it is powerful.
For the “working at the Int. Base but yet is clueless about why he’s seeing so much craziness, out-tech, off-purpose BS…on and on.” I wouldn’t assume that was his operating basis in the physical universe. That is his observation of his surrounding environmental factors. I assure you when I was on staff I saw plenty of craziness but that didn’t mean it was mine. Therefore it was NOT my operating basis in the physical universe.
If you could look over what I wrote I think you will see we are talking two different “confusions”. One is an operating state of the person and the other is not. The dishwasher seeing craziness does not have to operate that way. If the dishwasher was actually in the state of confusion he would be operating in confusion. Quite different handlings.
I appreciate your training. As a trained Esto (PRD,OEC,FEBC) I see it differently than you. That is the nicety of this type of forum. We can have different views.
Are you a Flag MAA, perchance?
Seriously, you’re going to argue the meaning of ‘where’ in the context of the Confusion Formula?
Pick another stump. One a little higher off the ground, like maybe even above ground. (Not as in Ground Rod ™ , but as in with potential. English being homonymic and all. )
P.S. for Vertley,
7. The Supervisor will be able to correlate any part of Scientology to any other part and to livingness over the eight dynamics.
Jim, I had a Flag sup (among other things) demo TO ME the correct definition of the word “end”.
I found this very helpful because before that I was totally unaware that I didnt know what an instant read was.
Oh man – that’s maah Jimmy. He as smart as can be and as witty and quick as a hummingbird. He is old school is knowledge as a sage. Don’t fight in words with a true wordsmith – that’s what my mama always told me.
(No offense intended Vertley as I laid out in my earlier text, but I have to agree with Jim on this one. I believe as one really educated in the basic of auditing you can see what difference I was pointing at.)
By the by, I DO appreciate your continuous application of what you know, and the integrity of your holding your position. Sincerely. (I didn’t much care for the generality you began this response with, see, and I can hold a position my self, soooo, there you go.)
Your description of ‘where’ as a significance is a Mis-U. That’s all. Clear it. Carry on.
I’ve had both excellent and abysmal results with ethics lower conditions. For me, it was always pretty much the same pattern:
If I did it my way according to how I understood things, it went smoothly and quickly and the results were wonderful. If I followed someone else’s “recommendations”, it would grind on and on and on….. It’s not a cut-and-dried thing of course (there were a few cases where the opposite to above happened), but by and large it went that way.
My thoughts on the matter now look like this (keep in mind this is purely me saying how it appears to me and I could be completely wrong)
– lower conditions are quick
– more often than not I already completed the condition in my own space and just had to write up the results
– liability is not a way to enforce more $$$$ out of someone, it’s a means for THE PERSON HIMSELF to get back some of their integrity and standing. Non-E and higher still exist and that’s where huge amounts of production and stats will happen
– there is no “expected result” from lowered conditions, there is only your own personal result. The clue to a successful completion of one condition is the person is fully willing to proceed with the next one
– amends must be realistic and the condition says “make up the damage”. What’s the damage done by a single thought, and how to reverse it? Maybe it’s as simple as now having the reverse thought and saying where the thought came from.
A made-up example: Alan once thought DFB was a real shitbag. In Doubt, I realize that DFB isn’t a shitbag and that was just 3rd party. So the effective blow is to decide that DFB is NOT a shitbag (what could be a more effective blow to 3P than deciding to not listen to it?). The amends in Liability could be to expose the 3P and nullify it (again, what could possibly be more effective than that?)
This example assumes that Alan really is in lowereds at all, which might not be the case no matter what some 16 year-old clown of an EO says. Extortion of $$$ in a case like this probably means the EO is no higher than Treason (per Hats, Not Wearing).
To answer your question about changing groups in Doubt and then doing Liability, just look at any Doubt Announcement here on this blog. People look and decide the Church they belong to is a crock of shit. As an effective blow they might tell IJC and the EO to shove it where the sun don’t shine – effectively nullifying the attempt to introvert. They announce their decision and this complete Doubt (which only says to announce the decision, not to also fully explain why). The rest of the Doubt Announcement is the Liability – making amends by exposing facts with time, place, form, event. Hundreds of people reading this blog look at the facts presented and heartily welcome the new-comer thereby accepting the Liability and the new Independent moves into Non-E right there. They did Liability because while still in and being somewhat of an enabler they were thwarting the good intentions of Scientology and the Independents to a degree.
It all happens very quickly, which was my first point🙂
This post got a lot longer than I intended, sorry about that, but I got it all down. It’s a fruitful area of discussion, I even blew some charge of my own on Ethics while typing this!
Like you (and like most anyone coming out of the C of M battered and bruised) I have had squirrel ethics conditions enforced on me. The very idea of applying ethics after leaving the ‘Church’ left a REALLY bad taste in my mouth.
While there are technical handlings for the wrong items and indications I found using’ Repair of Past Ethics Condition’s workable to get to where I needed to go (renewed ability to apply ethics tech).
The lower conditions are also magical when used correctly without the inval and eval of what a low-life piece of shit you are and RPEC is a great tool to fix this.
Good idea to go get the book and work at it. My journey to freedom began when I locked myself in a room with an ethics book and got my comm line in with pure unadulterated LRH. It was liberating to be able to apply the conditions for ME and I had huge wins.
I’m sure others will be coming forward with advice for you but that’s my 2c worth.
DFB aka Dfb99 — You state: “I need paper and pen and a quiet room.” Good! I also suggest you pick up a copy of the 1974 INTRODUCTION TO SCIENTOLOGY ETHICS copyrighted by LRH. It’s 64 pages long, and so simple to read and apply. I doubt it’s a good idea to apply “enforced” conditions or to have someone “approve” them. Per the LRH introduction: “We are factually only here helping people to help themselves to better their conditions and the conditions of life. That is our total action.” I hope this helps and do well! Hallelujah
My wife Karry is an expert on RPEC and Conditions and Exchange By Dynamics. She would be happy to help anyone who needs it. Send me an email at email@example.com if you need any help.
This offer is for anyone out there. Karry has already had fantastic results helping people who were blown off lines for many years by showing them how to help themselves move out of fixed, unwanted lower conditions from the past.
I’m sure you have references available on the conditions.
Where ethics falls on its head and is bound to give you trouble is when it no longer is a personal thing but used as an arbitrary group enforcement mechanism to get you in line with current group think (depending on the circumstances the desired result may shift : staying on staff, complying to an order, making a “donation” you can’t afford – all of these desired outcomes, aka “cognitions”, are external to “you” and have nothing to do with “personal”).
If so, dump the whole enforced crap and do the conditions that you feel should be done. And you upgrade yourself because this is entirely a matter between you, yourself and your thetan🙂
And you will know whether you have correctly applied the conditions as when all is said and done it will be you who either sits in the sun or in a pile of crap. So, if you are the one that gets to live with it either way, good or bad, isn’t it just more than fair and sensible that it be you who decides how to play them?
Really just and encouragement to make yourself your own guinea pig and see how good you can get at them. Don’t think people use them self-determinedly to kill themselves🙂
Uh, last I checked, no one is officially running a course here. Period. We’re just sitting around the table at the cafe having a chat. Telling our wins, giving our opinions, quoting a policy or bulletin or tape. We’re entitled to our communication and our viewpoints and our cognitions.
We are also bright enough to notice we’re sitting in a cafe and not a course room, so the “tech” at the table is written on napkins not bulletins. There is a difference.
Part of intelligence and of study is the ability to evaluate data. Part of evaluation is the capacity to apply that data and accept or reject it.
I love hearing how people apply the data. I love sharing their experiences and understandings. I want to know what each and everyone of you sees and experiences and knows. I want to see how you’ve understood the material and applied it.
But, I don’t take the chat on napkins back to the course room. We mostly know the difference.
I don’t recognize anyone here as my course supervisor. There is no check sheet. No qual. No star-rated checkouts. No drills. No expressed end ability or knowledge gained. Source is green or red on white. Or tapes. Or books. (at least before some idiot got his mitts on them.) And since I don’t recognize an official course in progress, I certainly don’t believe I need anyone forcing himself/herself to live by the supervisor’s code here.
When I look around the table, instead of seeing supervisors, I see a bunch of people with greasy fingers and lop-sided grins.
So, could someone pass me some pizza?
Uh, how about the mushroom, olive and onion. And hand me a stack of napkins. This is getting messy.
Your videos are intriguing, informative, exciting and a joy to watch.
It is incredible how manipulative the Church has gotten…
There are no rules in their games anymore… anyone inside is at risk to make the wrong step and get destroyed… by his own group (or better what he thought it was his own group).
Yes, Davey’s Church is as manipulative as Der Leader himself. There are definitely rules, all enforced and all contrary to Tech and Policy. Those staying in are being destroyed, slowly or rapidly, as we speak. However, a being can’t be destroyed or harmed by another or by a group; the only one that can do a thetan in, is he himself. He can only be affected by the very postulates he himself makes. Churchies will make wrong postulates and do bad things on a daily basis because they either don’t see the correct source of suppression (highly unlikely) or don’t have enough integrity to say so and act accordingly, thus they make more wrong postulates and do themselves further in. Of course they’ll pull in at least 1000 justifications as to why they can’t make the right decisions, but those stem from the very first (and other) Dynamic overts that got them there. To stay in you must be very manipulative or be full time in the RPF and even there you’re manipulative, if only to yourself. All the sorrow one experiences is done to oneself mainly by exposing oneself to an environment in which one survives by making bad postulates. But there’s hope, there’s Marty’s blog, eradicating more group engrams in less time than Churchies can inflict upon themselves; we only have to get them to look. It’s Davey’s sordid and losing game to get them to not look. But even without this blog, they’d only have to read KSW or any code or do a doubt per LRH or apply integrity or use common sense or ….. just tell their Senior that Davey is an SP (they won’t stay long in that environment, that’s for sure). For those who are truly Type III not much can be done right now, but that’s a minority because most are blown (SP’s fight each other as well) and replaced by a variety of young recruits.
Perfect wording: Enforced Connection! Blew charge for me.
Enforced communication is productive of all manner of aberration and physiological changes in the individual” Best is to read the entire section; ENFORCED MUST HAVE and CAN’T HAVE is applicable to A, R and C, of course. Science of Survival – new edition, page 298.
Just think of all the “special” briefings, reg cycles and mass-implant events by Dear Leader six times a year! None of it is voluntary! Enforced communication is productive of all manner of aberration and physiological changes in the individual. Anybody ever heard of sick people in the church at all levels of the Bitch – instead of The Bridge – and of labeled SP’s who mysteriously recover from all manner of medical conditions?
Great video. You three look, talk and feel great! Thanks.
Ditto. Excellent videos. Hope you do more of these videos with people who come to visit with you Marty, these are excellent.
This blew a lot for me which was done in my
time in 1980
Enforced disconnection is the opposite of Grade 0 (zero) end phenomenon.
DM reveals that he himself is set of very twisted up lower grade end phenomena.
Almost everything he pushes on his fellow human beings is a perversion of the End Phenomena of the lower grades.
Odd that Cathy Rinder enthusiastically permitted herself to be described as your ex-wife on the Anderson Cooper 360 program last April on CNN (start at 6:00 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfyV-sXj7wM). Odd how she didn’t correct him then on camera. And odd that David Miscavige’s lawyers didn’t clarify or correct her marital status then during their protracted negotiations in the weeks prior to the series being aired.
In fact, the whole thing is odd. But that’s the Church of $cientology under David Miscavige — getting odder by the day.
JM — Also odd that the church gave the SP Times a signed declaration from “Cathy Bernardini” stating she is my ex-wife — before Dear Leader had the brilliant idea that a divroce proceeding might be able to be used to get financial information. LaBlow has spent almost a year “digging” into my finances. But he ddnt come up with anything other than “he is unemployed” — what a joke he is.
This whole ‘hire THE divorce lawyers’ thing is just toooooo classic DM/SP.
I can fairly feel the glee. ‘What a genius! It’s brilliant, sir, as usual’ and accchhh, shhhhptt, fffffrrrttt, go the sycophants ‘Of course it is! Are you doubting!’
I know it’s a huge pain in the arse, but, it’s also reaaaaally hilarious. Suing for divorce, with the highest priced lawyers available, to ‘harass’ and to fish for finance that we can then see in Freedom Mag to prove what an SP Mike is so…well, we know the game.
Hopefully you’ve been discrete with the Big Pharma paychecks. Speaking of which, mine are late AGAIN!!!! Nudge them for me will ya.
Jimbo — The checks are in the mail. Along with your invite to route onto OT IX and front row tickets for the Grand Opening of the Super Power building, happening “real soon.”
OK, one more…
Yes, OT IX, just as soon as we handle the Illuminati, right Dave?
Well, WHO DO YOU THINK WE ARE?
Achh, fffssspttt, mmfffff, nurg. (Sycophant chant.)
Ooops, forgot vvvvvzzzzznnnnvvvvzzzzzzz – the DM Copper Rod Tech ™ and it’s unmistakable hmmmmmmmm.
(Big Pharma, my quota of posts are up…I get a bonus?)
Hmmmm…you could possibly hoist them with their own petard on this one. In essence, Cathy has a solid contract for $50 per week X 52 weeks X one billion years. Let’s see, that’s two trillion, six hundred billion dollars. Not bad. California law = 50/50 split. You’re vested into over a trillion bucks for your cut of her assets.
Cut her a deal, man. Settle for…one million up front.
Thanks for the update about Enforced Connection
It’s also enforced connection and so participation in Dave’s plan to wreck the church. I was going over in my head some of the areas where’s DM is the active suppressor and there’s no rebuttal from the church because no rebuttal possible, and changing most of it would mean only a simple mandate from him, it’s breathtaking.
IAS, Superpower arbitraries, F/N’s, Instant reads, franchises dead, CLO’s are just phone lines, Int Mgmt declared, Ideal orgs, stopping 80’s dianetics, stopping translations, Grades PC’s to Flag, GAT done wrong, Primary Rundown, Justice lines go through him and not LRH admin, Illegal events, horrible programs to orgs, stats down for 20 years, 75 million RTC building, LRH training videos cancelled, non-e FEBC training, basics runway and mandatory TR’s and metering course.
That’s pretty much all the major points which determine upstats or downstats too, there’s only so much tech available to suppress.
Marty, these videos are excellent.
I guess all strident wrong-indication rewriting of history language coming out of official Scientology comes out of one guy’s head/mouth.
Nobody else seems to be the master of wrong indication and master of rewriting history.
I’m so glad you guys are free to talk and explain it all publicly.
What a different world it would be if official Scientologists were allowed to listen and read anything they wanted online.
It’d be nice to get official Scientology up to Flow 3, Grade 0 (zero) end phenomenon.
That’ll be a major advance, if it ever happens.
In the Bizarro World of Reverse Scientology, Mr. Mxyzptlk (read Miscavige)
Everyday DM and the C of S reveals its true colors.
This fear game and threats have a temporary effect but its just that, TEMPORARY.
The more permanent effect is holding ones space and expressing oneself despite the fall out. The crush regging, lack of ARC and the out tech has been EXPOSED globally and the shit is hitting the fan. Look don’t listen and if you really LOOK and see the craziness you are allowing yourself to go through and deal with you will run, BUT you really need to LOOK and see how you are being manipulated and controlled, and once you have that epiphany and see the light, you will RUN FOR THE HILLS just like Usain BOLT runs his 100 meter dash and that is really fast.
Yes, people in the church are waking up and leaving everyday, open your eyes and it will be amazing what you see, its not pretty! Go with your gut, its never wrong!!! Run for the hills…… You will feel a sense of freedom and joy you never experienced while in the greedy controlling hands of DM’s fold. Run, run , run and you will NEVER look back, its freedom at its best. Try it, you’ll like it!
Reading that story from Snr C/S Cinn with all the outpoints brings it home to me how much outside delivery is needed for it’s own sake. Aside from breaking the monopoly, there’s no standard delivery right now. He won’t deliver so others need to deliver or there’s no delivery. It’s the original goal of safeguarding the tech (creating a group of highly trained tech and admin) because DM isn’t interested and won’t change.
I wouldn’t say there is no standard delivery.
Marty delivers standard Scientology and I try my best to deliver it to the PCs or Pre OTs that I audit as well.
That’s two that I personally know of so far.
There are others as well.
They just don’t advertise for obvious reasons.
Its all in the HCOBs.
Maybe the problem is that it isn’t well enough known.
Having a Government Approved Scientology whose squirrelly tech is supported by the state’s legal machinery puts a crimp in delivery for now but does not actually stop it.
It just makes it difficult though not impossible to promote and deliver.
Sure it would be nice to have a nice standard course room run exactly per WIAC and ‘Courses Their Ideal Scene’ with someone like Jimbo making sure you’re truly a product of the course.
But for now it’s all pretty much DIYS.
There is nothing stopping you from grabbing someone you know and can trust somewhat and co-auditing every grade and level of the grade chart.
Just like they did back in the ’50’s when there was no such thing as Cen-O-Cons or WW or the SO and its top down moronic autocratic idiocy that has brought us to where we are now.
I’m goin’ South to help establish a course delivering the Levels extant under LRH, pre-GAT. That’s one of many such courses.
That’s totally awesome Jimbo!
I did the pre-GAT levels and they took 6 weeks as opposed to 6 decades or whatever the checksheet time is these days.
(I think it involves several lifetimes or something like that…..
Or maybe that’s just the “baa ….sucks” course.)
Sheesh Jim …
Well, Canada’s loss😦
First there was Celine, then Justin Beber, now YOU!! (Well, I didn’t cry when the 1st two left – actually, I suppressed a cheer).
Do well, Bud!
What about Neil Young and Joni Mitchell?
Lest we forget Alex Tribek.
As in “Who is the host of Jeopardy?”
(Though you never know Jimbo could be eaten by a genetically altered salmon created by those wacky mad scientists Sapere and Splog before he has a chance to defect to the land of the TSA🙂 )
That is exciting news!! 🙂
Hi RJ, I should have said delivery within the church. I’m working on getting in session and trained up and it shouldn’t be long. Got to get some stuff in order first.
There’s four orgs that I’m aware of and more in the works, I was talking about orgs but I didn’t say that so that’s understandable. Hopefully some of you field auditors get together and form one, or join Pheonix or whichever you’d like because it’s important to help get those off the ground with your tech expertise. The advanced ability center for example had a bunch of highly trained tech people from the get-go, that was a successful action for them. I’m all for field auditors but forming orgs is crucial too (not just because of auditor training), and that’ll result in a lot more field auditors than otherwise. Thank god Tom and Linda and Jim are starting to make it happen.
Yes “delivery” if you can call it such within the Org is at Treason level or lower.
Below non-existence for sure.
Yes I agree it would nice to have a few groups going.
Mike , Christie and Marty, excellent interview. The more exposure to the truth the more the little man rants! he will get caught, he continues to trip over himself.
The truth will continue to be told I love it.
I don’t know if I have just read it wrong but at least on the mailing lists, there was a Division 2 policy letter that clearly stated that no one was to be removed from a Church mailing list EVER. My understanding of the policy letter is that this includes those who request to be removed from the mailing list. Those who send nasty or choppy letters to the Church may be “dead filed” however, and will receive no further communication from the Church. It seems to me (based on my understanding of these policy letters) that the enforced communication on the mailing list line is written into Church policy, issued by LRH. Can anyone clarify this point or shed some light on these policies?
Keep in mind those policies were written n the 60s. It cost a lot of time and effort to get someone on lines in the first place, and some orgs (especially Joburg) had a tendency to throw away the list because they were “old” or similar nonsense. LRH wrote policy saying that you never throw mailing lists away to prevent that. Later on deadfile was introduced – so someone who writes a nasty or choppy letter goes there and stops receiving mail.
Spam was not the problem then that it is now, people were not getting 17 fliers a day in the mail like they do now, and laws did not exist then about mailing lists. So I doubt the case of “opt-out” ever came up, and the Church of Scientology itself did not have the filthy reputation then that it has now.
In the 80s I was taking care of an org’s addresso. I followed deadfile policy, if I got mail returned because the addressee had moved, I would simply put them in the “address unknown – do not mail” category. People who asked nicely to be removed (this was rare) were told “Of course I will remove you” and I would. I’d also despatch all upper orgs and Flag as well.
Things are different now and one must apply intelligence to the matter. We have laws that say you must remove anyone from mailing lists who asks to be removed.
This is not explicitly in policy; I think not because LRH wanted to enforce communication, but because the situation never arose. LRH seldom or never wrote policy to deal with something that hadn’t happened. Nowadays orgs should just stop mailing people who don’t want mail – it’s a law of the land and who in their right mind would disobey that?
Well davey and his minions would, but they are not in their right minds.
We have laws that say you must remove anyone from mailing lists who asks to be removed.
Ever try getting off the cult’s mailing lists? Good luck. They ignore request after request. Getting spam email from them? Here’s a way to get off that list: email them Marty’s blog. Your email address will be deleted so fast it’ll make your head spin.
Before you hit return to send them info on the blog, pick whichever posting you like and while on that page hit Control A. That will highlight the whole page (make sure you include the comments). Then hit Control C. That will copy the whole highlighted page. Then go to the body of the email you’re going to send and hit Control V. That will paste the entire copied page into the body of the email.
If they’ve been warned about the evil Marty, they’ll just hit delete if they see a link to the blog. But if you copy & paste the blog page into the body of an email, there’s no link and chances are, they’ll read it.
OSA, you won’t be able to tell which staff members are actually reading this blog because no links will show up in the browser’s history. Gotcha!!
I like that. That’s darn clever.
I don’t know of any such policy.
Maybe you could give the date and title and maybe post a specific excerpt per fair use.
In my opinion this is the trap that the Government approved Church of Scientology has fallen into.
The trap where they say LRH said this or his intention was that and its either a misinterpretation or a lie.
Like this “Ideal Org” BS which has nothing to do with the HCOPL Data Series 40 or the original RED.
Or this Squirrelly Age of Tech based on an obscure lecture given on the Apollo back in ’71 intended for Quals.
Or saying that a HCOB regarding disconnection supersedes a policy canceling it.
Or that an F/N has to swing back and forth three times at precisely the same distance before it can be considered an “F/N”.
Or that there is actually a post as “Religious Leader” that can be occupied by some pushy and obnoxious moron who doesn’t have a frickin’ clue what Scientology is etc.
Regarding someone who is upset and doesn’t want any further communication from the Church never being taken off a mailing list.
I’ve never seen such a policy.
1. All CoS members are FSM’s and regges.
2. All CoS members are OSA agents and need to handle SP’s. As Marty said in the video, “Everyone can spy, everyone must spy.” It seems spying is the actual stable datum in DM’s world.
3. CoS has always been about intrigue and I guess that was half the fun while it lasted. The Tech was the other 50% of the fun. Now it is all running down the Dave’s dwindling spiral into Hell.
4. All CoS members work for David Miscavige. Even publics work for David Miscavige. DM is the man behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz. His real secret is that he has money, lawyers, and PI’s. Dave’s “OT” power and omniscience is based on spying on people; threats made by his lawyers to CoS’ “enemies”; and Disconnection. Take those away and even Viagra won’t help DM. When Scientologists lose their fear of Disconnection and its consequences, they will be free. Disconnection and its consequences is the only power David Miscavige has left.
5. All CoS members must engage in DM’s drama on a daily basis. Once a Scientologist lose their fear of Disconnection and its consequences, they become free of an enforced order to engage in DM’s drama.
6. Cut DM’s money line. Refuse to donate any money to CoS. Ask for refund of all monies on account. Freeloader bills are unenforceable.
7. CoS is DM’s Bitch. Stop being his bitch!
I think that too much cause has been assigned to the little manical madman whose only throne should be the one designed by Crapper because as we all know he’s so full of shit.
If we had said “fuck you sir!!!” instead of “yessir!” every time he tried to pass off his bullshit as “policy” or “tech” or as “LRH intended” instead of going along to get along like many of those gutless wonders at Int Base FKA as “Int Management” are doing right now the guy would have been a foot note in the history of Scientology instead of dominating it!
The guy has no more power than we assign or grant him.
As far as I’m concerned he is a non-entity on an actual Scientology Org Board.
A pretender to a non-existent post.
He is *not* Scientology!
RJ – why are you being so subtle today. How about some straight talk from you about how you feel rather than beat around the bush. Sheesh.
Baby ek like jou soos jy is.
nee, swaer, nee., dis verkeerd.
“Baby ek laaik jou soos jy is.”
there ya go, fixed that for ya
Danke shoen meinem freund.
Speaking in tongues! More clear-cut evidence of Satanic Illuminati!!
I KNEW IT! Evil, Luciferian, Gnostic, Cultic, Celtic, Secret-Codic bunch of Whole Track Alien Conspiracy Satan Minion Mind Control Genetic Manipulating DEVILS!
Jim JIM!! wake up. You are having another one of those dreams. Here! Stop gazing into the fishbowl and have some more hot chocolate with marshmallows – just as you like it. Hate it when you stop the med’s.
Oh, and you left zeitgeist off the list. Can you please get it together, you’re embarrassing me with your shenanigans.
splog — Please put in English:
Super aude — I understand this German acknowledgement, but others might not.
My first sentence means “Hey buddy, you got it wrong.” In the second sentence I changed one word and just spelled it differently. It’s an in-joke – Sapere Aude and I are just having fun with word-mangling – meaningless nonsense, pay it no heed🙂
But that infernal meddling Logan gets it and one of these days we’ll have to deal with him. I’m thinking genetically modified gigantic man-eating salmon. Yeah, that ought to do it!
Baby ek like jou soos jy is means
Baby I like you as you are. It is from an Afrikaans baby lyrics. I then had splog correct my poor rendition of Afrikaans and now I have to explain for him. That’s ok – you can thank me later Splog.
Forgot the rest of your info.
Danke shoen meinem freund means thank you very much my friend.
In case you don’t know, I believe RJ is from South Africa. Sometimes I put little care packages for him to make him feel comfy. He gets crabby otherwise.
In the future I will put both the afrikaans and the english for all to be part of the comm cycle. No intention to leave these rest of you out of the fun. Thanks for the prompt to get my (bleep) together and be a considerate member here. smile
Chuckling over this string of comments. Thanks for clarifying! H
Subtle is my middle name.
Aha. Subtle is as subtle does. Carry on ole chap.
This “Bedtime Story” that Mat wrote and issued 2 May 2009 is in exact alignment with what Tiziano is saying and what Mike, Christie and Marty cover in this video.
Really, for those in doubt, don’t let yourself be manipulated by the “church” – think for yourself and keep to your own personal integrity.
I see an issue of freedom. Here’s a quote from The Shack, p. 93. God (Papa) is talking to Mack, who wants to know if he’s free to go or if God will force him to stay.
“Or, if you want to go just a wee bit deeper, we could talk about the nature of freedom itself. Does freedom mean that you are allowed to do whatever you want to do? Or we could talk about all the limiting influences in your life that actively work against your freedom. Your family genetic heritage, your specific DNA, your metabolic uniqueness, the quantum stuff that is going on at a subatomic level where only I am the always present observer. Or the intrusion of your soul’s sickness that inhibits and binds you, or the social influences around you, or the habits that have created synaptic bonds and pathways in your brain. And then there’s advertising, propaganda, and paradigms. Inside that confluence of multi-faceted inhibitors,” she sighted, “what is freedom really?”
I think Tiziano made an inspirational argument about the joy and freedom of just being yourself and not hiding. About the advantages of being who you are and just communicating freely. About the positive influences that can result from your expansion of space and beingness and ARC when you are not hiding or pretending.
And I can see his idea that there are stages of being PTS as one emerges from the suppression of the church. And Marty’s and Mike’s and Christies idea about enforced connection makes a lot of sense.
The one thing I know is that we are all different. And what indicates to one person will not necessarily indicate to another. And to indicate that an individual is PTS for such and such a reason may or may not be valid.
Sitting on a “maybe” does not mean a person is PTS.
Let’s look at infinite valued logic. Absolutes are unattainable. Suppression is not an absolute. You have shades of gray-even with suppression. Thus, you would have shades of gray with being PTS.
So when do you have enough data to define a condition as PTS for a particular individual? Is a wife suppressive for nagging a husband to keep the garage straight when he has it just the way he wants it? When do all the little things add up enough to tip the scale? When does this condition “PTS” indicate as an item for a person? Even LRH had multiple views on the subject as indicated in the quotes Jim Logan entered into the discussion about Suppressives.
I’m not saying anyone is PTS or not. Each of us has to make our own decisions on this. I think this entire subject is ripe for a lot of incisive argument. I think a lot of individuals will get a lot of understanding and gain from examining the subject. A great basis for discussion.
However, we should also recognize the dangers of indicating wrong items. Also, that “protest” can muck up a case and prevent cognition. I wouldn’t doubt that there are individuals reading this blog who have protested the idea that they are PTS or that their connections are being enforced. And there are other buttons to consider.
As in The Shack, a bird is designed to fly, not walk. As we are designed to love, not live in anger and hatred. Thetans are filled with ARC and KRC and a sense of play. Just as Tiziano can still fly when the birds who formerly befriended him cannot because they are clipped, the limitations around us are not our limitations. We can love in the face of hatred. We can affect others by our mere presence.
Choice is still senior. We each are different. What indicates to one will not indicate to another. That one recognizes and follows one’s own goals is more important than following another’s. And much of our considerations of what is right and what is wrong stem from our own goals.
Really enjoyed you post, very refreshing and theta.
Well said Michael.
I’ll drink to that, Michael! [Not literally, of course, as I don’t drink]
You speak very much in the spirit of S.O.S.
Michael — Thank you for making this comment. You state it far more eloquently than I could have.
Part of your comment is this line: “So when do you have enough data to define a condition as PTS for a particular individual?”
In response, I’d say it would be far better to allow the particular individual to define his own condition. If he’s here, he’s already chosen independence (or just scouting around on the matter) and should be quite able to define his own condition.
If this individual, however, either asks for help defining his condition or asks for help on handling his condition, we can (and do) jump all over it.
Now, I’ve reread your comment and you actually say this too. I guess I just wanted to put in my thoughts on the matter. Hallelujah
Michael – Well stated. Dianetics 55 chapter on Pan-Determinism.
“The true enlightenments of this world have come from willingness to be along any of the dynamics. …
The ladder to that height is … made of Understanding – Affinity, Reality and Communication.” LRH
As we all have different levels of ARC, of Responsibility, of that willingness to be along all dynamics, therefore we have different considerations. Thus, different gradients for each. A particular type of suppression may start to impinge into one of us toward some PTSness (effect) and not even be noticed by another.
As you so well put it “Choice is still senior.”
Michael, I found nothing in your comment to disagree with, yet it left me unsatisfied. It took awhile, but I try to explain why below.
” The one thing I know is that we are all different. And what indicates to one person will not necessarily indicate to another. And to indicate that an individual is PTS for such and such a reason may or may not be valid.”
I’d like to add to your comment this, that there is a subjective aspect and an objective aspect to any condition a person may be in.. In this situation of “PTSness” there are 4 broad possibilities:
1. He is not PTS and knows, or is aware, that he is not PTS.
2. He is not PTS but does not know,is not aware, that he is not PTS.
3. He is PTS and knows, is aware, he is PTS.
4. He is PTS but does not know, is not aware, that he is PTS.
The critical factor in whether or not something “indicates” to him is not whether he objectively is or is not that(in this case, we are talking about PTS), but whether he is or can be AWARE of it. He can be PTS below his level of awareness, and then it won’t “indicate” to him, even though it is true. His level of awareness may need to be brought up before he can recognize that he is indeed PTS. Until it is, it won’t “indicate”, no matter how true it is.
Thus the indication might be entirely valid, but wouldn’t indicate to the person it is communicated to. That does not make it an issue of “freedom” or “self-determinism” or “individuality”or any of those.
Sure, a person is free to be PTS forever, if that’s what he wants to do. The key issues are, Is he PTS? and, Is he aware of it or not?
Since Tiziano’s post was not addressed to any specific person, there is no way it can be a “wrong indication”, or invalidating anyone, or infringing on someone’s freedom. It may in fact “indicate” to someone reading this blog because that person will recognize he is in that situation, that position. If he recognizes that the shoe fits, he may wear it. Others will simply say to themselves,”OK. That doesn’t apply to me” and move on.
Your comment reminded me of one of those philosophical dissertations from long ago, an art form of logic mostly lost these days.
Yeah, I was aware of what you wrote, but I figured someone would either bring up that argument or not. Sometimes, for the sake of brevity (a concept mostly foreign to my unstoppable mouth) I try to limit what I write to a few arguments with a few nuances about that argument. I know that it’s more fun when others are contributing to the motion. So why hog the stage?
I just thought that the idea that a lot of individuals who are flying under the radar are far from being currently PTS. Many such individuals left the church long ago. Some have business interests far outside the church that have a certain delicacy. Many read this blog but don’t post. I just felt that a certain segment reading this needed a voice, a clarification of their position.
As for being PTS and not being aware of it, I would venture that all of us are PTS at the level we are trapped in the physical universe. And that level, that point would remain beneath one’s awareness. Until we are free.
So, being PTS has some relevance and some irrelevance as a matter of practicality. The important thing to consider is whether a person is getting gains and winning in life. If someone is flying under the radar and experiencing fantastic wins, but still a bit PTS to the church of altered tech, I would just let it go. When the confront level rises, a person just does what is right for them.
I loved Tiziano’s article. I thought it a necessary article and argument for discussion. It’s points raised a necessity level to confront the subject.
But the church is famous for throwing people in over their level of confront and justifying it with some altered piece of nonsense. I don’t expect anyone to suddenly confront what they are far from being able to confront, no matter how much that thing is messing up their lives. (Such as being stuck in the physical universe.) Even if you validly do all the levels available up to OT8, there are still things that are heavy to confront and take responsibility for–but with less mass and energy at stake. So, again, where do you draw the line?
A gradient scale of confront. A continuation of wins and cognitions, always working to higher levels of ARC and KRC. Eventually, the job will get done. I just don’t want anyone caving in over the maybe of being PTS or not. I don’t want the prep check buttons coming into play to mess up someone’s wins.
A lot of individuals here do not immediately have access to an auditor. And having an out list or needing an L1C certainly could ruin your day without that kind of back up.
But, I loved what you wrote. And I understand what you wrote. Valid points, cleverly crafted.
I’m old fashioned. Or maybe just old! 🙂
Tiz’s post brought to my mind a picture of a “disaffected” person who has not yet left the Co$. More precisely, one whose heart isn’t in it anymore, feels s/he doesn’t belong in there anymore, wishes s/he was somewhere else, but who still has ties that bind, whatever they are. That’s who I have in mind. Those kind might benefit from an evaluative “nudge”, as another commenter put it.
My wish is simply for such a person to sort it out for their own benefit, rather than leaving their self “twisting slowly in the wind”.
I’m a bit of a dunce at times. I wasn’t quite sure what you meant with: “A particular type of suppression may start to impinge into one of us toward some PTSness (effect) and not even be noticed by another.” Could you expatiate?
Wonderful post Michael. One of my chief issues with the church ovr the past few years was that others insisted on making my decisions FOR me – from their point of view it was no longer MY hat to decide how to proceed in MY life. So while I may respect and admire the decisions others make in their lives, I continue to keep my own counsel, be my own advisor and select my own decions.
Michael, you are truly beautiful. Thank you.
I did not have a problem with Tizano stating what he believes. I am happy for the free communication. I am thrilled when someone comes out with their name and their story because it is a BIG help to our cause. I would love to be able to do that too and understand the freedom that follows-wonderful. But, still weighing the options I still need to stay under the radar because of family and other important relationships.
Marty, Mike and Christie. Loved the video. Filled in some more info. And I just love seeing and hearing you guys.
Once Upon a time
Thank you for your views on the matter related to PTS.
If your Tech Trained and happen to read this or Any one else reading this , Can some one tell me the LRH reference or references to the recent indications made without a source reference to location of these Thes ewere made in a mail form and at this time only willing to make the comment made saying, Wording used was. It’s more like False PTSness, or False SP, or False 3P , What reference can some Tech person refer me too please that covers these ?? Thank you .
Like the videos Marty…. reduces it down to the simplicity of a few beings in human form wanting to make the best of it…. hard to argue with folks like that. No pomp and pretended power.
I was just reading the articles on wikileaks revealing the contents of a quarter million diplomatic cables. Seems that the power games and plays of the CofS are not that out of sync with the goings on of our governments.
Enforced connection is like enforced agreement. The agreement that those want to push down your throat is that you only can reach OT or freedom inside the organized church. Even if you are out and getting auditing you might have the idea that you can not make it to the top as OT soandso is not released by the organized church.
There is also another agreed upon point which had been pushed down our throats. If you agree with one aspect of Scn then you have to agree with all the rest. If you agree with lower grade auditing tech then you also have to agree with ethics tech and admin tech and thus with management and their decisions. Did you ever talk to a scientologist that happily studied the academy and violently disagrees with the ethics conditions and refuses to apply them?
I think we „outsiders“ have now the chance to get rid of that shackles that made us agree and agree.
Reading you post, and looking over Vertley’s site (Free Heber) and comparing it to what I’m studying on the 2nd ACC, all about selecting things out for randomity, establishing things as ‘automaticities’ ( a machine that will run without much further attention) I had clear thought about all this.
The org, the entire structure, all of the policy that exists for its running, is a creation of the beings or agreed upon by the beings, as something to facilitate the delivery of the valid Technology of auditing and the training of auditors (and training/study itself as at least 50% of the gains/Bridge/KRC).
In the 2nd ACC it is fully described how a being sets up automaticities.
He postulates something, a machine say, to ‘keep an eye out for deer on the road at night’. Wanting this thing to run on its own, without much further attention, he ‘forgets’ about it. That’s part of the postulate see, put it up, have it run without attention (forget about it). Later on, he becomes Effect of his own Cause. He set up the machine. He’s driving along, the machine running, and a shadow off to the side of the road is picked up by the automatic ‘deer sensor’ and off the road goes the car. It wasn’t a deer, it was a bush blowing in the wind. He’s been ‘hoist by his own petard’ – become effect of his own cause. (NB: This is not meant as and isn’t a substitute for full study or any such but as a brief description of the full theory and practical of the area.)
The org has become something similar, in greater or lesser degree. It is now an automaticity, expected to run and do a job on its own. Beings have become effect of their own agreements and creation of the automaticity.
The entire structure, the Sea Org, all the management set-ups, programming, lines, terminals, policy, plans and so on, ALL OF IT, has ended up, in greater or lesser degree, as an automaticity, making those who are actually cause over it, now effect of it.
Perhaps the ‘shackles’ you refer to are those of our own putting up/agreement with the automaticity of the structure that is the church organization. PL 23 Oct 63 exhorts ‘live orgs’ – that’s a better deal.
R2-31, in Creation of Human Ability is applicable as a solution that returns to Cause over automaticities. I also heartily recommend the 2nd ACC🙂
Thanks a bunch for this post, Jim! I have always wondered how organizations became such “runaway trains” seemingly without any engineers running them. They appear to take on lives of their own.
For anyone interested, many of the ACC lectures have been leaked and available for free download. There are quite a few links on this page:
On that question about the meaning of the word “where” in the “find out where you are” step:
If I am in confusion on my finances, I may need to find out where I am by balancing my checkbook, adding up all my credit card debts, looking at what my take-home pay is instead of my pretax salary, etc. etc. By looking at all these things, I realize I am $300,000 in debt and suddenly I see why the reges like to keep me in confusion so I’ll keep giving in spite of this. From there I can put on my hat as “the finance officer of my own life,” and work my way on up the steps.
This is an example of the “where you are” not being a location in space. The wonderful thing about sentient thetans is that they can look at the formula and see the actual application that fits them and their own situation (condition), rather that what someone says they are supposed to think.
Totally true, Mockingbird6.
Confusion and the stable datum theory applies/fits right into the formula as well.
I think this is “Find out who you really are”, or perhaps “Find out that you are_______”, concerning your finances.
Agreed on that Valkov. Every LRH reference concerning the subject of confusion – both as a lowered condition and a simple mass of particles as described in early books – deals with particles with mass and their relation to one another in space.
NOWHERE in all of that does LRH use the word “where” in a figurative sense. It’s always used literally, and the expanded formula even says one must do a locational.
I think the full final handling of finances in this example would be in Danger: ” Handle the situation and any Danger in it”
Scn Axioms 53, 54 and the Logics apply. These are different than the Confusion Formula.
Yeah, in the next weeks I gonna tell my story. 1 public and one staff that were not connected to me, were taken off course because I’m connected with a declared SP and were put onto pts handling.
Pls reread above sentence, this is what really happened. Do you understand it ? I don’t !
The staff invited me at his home to handle and talk with me. She meant she has a pts a sit. because me being connected to a sp and her son being connected to me. I asked her to show me the pts A declare. She didn’t have any. I explained to her I’m not antagonistic towards her or Scientology, as I’m applying Scientology on a daily basis and in no way she has a pts sit. Nevertheless she did n0t give up trying to handle me to disconnect from that declared sp, which she doesn’t know and never has seen in her life. She thought because she is on staff, I would support it by disconnecting. This went on until I exploded and shouted at her, asking if she’s god and can nullify the creed of the C.O.S.
Now she got a pts sit.
Some days later she sent a disconnection letter from me, even offering to change her mind if the situation changes. I couldn’t believe it, as in fact I never was connected to her and never had any intention of becoming friend of her, she was just somebody I had small talk once per year for social reasons.
So the thing was; she connects to me and then disconnects when in fact I wasn’t at all in com. OSA must be in terror to work out such crazy handlings.
More I’ll tell in some weeks about that weird thing.
When I look at it I just want to sing: lalallalalallallhahhahahhhihihihi.
Can somebody of you intelligent guys explain to me what kind of tech that was ?????????????????
Have a good day : ) : )
LO~That was enforced connection in order to enforce disconnection in order to control you and her.
See…simple, huh? 😉
Very good !
Really there is no “tech” involved per se instead what you are looking at is known on the tone scale as abject terror which seems to be the way they “handle” these super human beings known as “SPs” at the Church these days.
I recommend reading Jeff’s article on his blog regarding this in order to decompress and have a good laugh.
That’s about right. Obsessive-compulsive behavior is often used to bind(control) fear(terror) and anxiety from spiraling out of control, according to traditional psychologists.
This staff member probably felt she must handle someone she believed she could not handle, therefore terror on her part. And the anxiety that she must do something.
Who needs more proof that the Co$ has become a crazy-making place, a “cackle factory”?
LO, that made me laugh. The whole thing. She / it / they are just twisting their minds and souls into pretzels trying to ‘make sense’ of what is merely insane. The whole scene is like a Charlie Chaplin movie. Brilliant!
YOU have a good day.🙂
It is crazy is what it is.
It makes no sense.
The church does these “handlings” now to try to manipulate people into doing what they want. You must be an important part of your area for them to go through this much trouble.
It does not match any LRH tech I know to disconnect from someone that you are not connected to.
It does not match any LRH tech to disconnect from someone not declared SP by HCO. Even if it did match this I would not abide by this as it is not true to me to disconnect from ANYONE that I feel is not a suppressive.
It doesn’t match any LRH tech I know of to disconnect from a “PTS” or a “dissaffeected” person.
I am a declred SP by HCO. Why wouldnt a person be able to be in communiction with me if I wasn’t suppressing them? They should even be able to get auditing if they want.
The c of miss cabbage is perverting the ethics tech to try to achieve silence from it’s critics and to hide dm’s overts.
Anyone has the right to associate with whoever they wish in a democracy. Not in a dictatorship.
Its only enforced because you are live and aware beings not willing to compromise.
Others connect and or disconnect with little enforcement, often automaticly without inspection.
Be proud you’re alive and aware enough to bear the responsibility to strike when called too.
RJ~ I just have to tell you I’m ROF😆 over here over “big fat knee cap strategically placed on my pony tail”
I can’t help it! Bwahaahahahahahahahahhahaaha
Any one reads the haldey questions on PTS ? they were questions of references to False Ptness /False SP/False 3P please can you help me with where those references are.
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