Rinder: Open Revolt Against Vulture Culture?

 The following interview of Mike Rinder was published in the most widely circulated and influential newspaper in Germany, Sueddeutsche, over the weekend.  It is informative and gets more integral differentiation going out worldwide.

Thanks to Greta Alexander for translating for us.

Scientology-dropout about leader of sect “He beat me, he made me clean toilets”

 January 14, 2012, 15:57

Interview: Marc Felix Serrao

For 20 years Michael Rinder has led the feared secret service of the Church of Scientology. In 2007 he dropped out – because he could no longer deal with the totalitarian methods of the sect leader.  Since then his own family despises him. In his first interview he explains why an open revolt in Scientology is only a question of time.

Over the past few days all hell has broken lose in Scientology. In an email to thousands of other Scientologists a devoted member named Debbie Cook has voiced sharp criticism about the leader of the sect, David Miscavige and his supposedly wasteful dealings with donations. Such sound bites have so far only been known to come from dropouts and not from the inside of the organisation. A unique happening? Not at all, says Michael Rinder. There are few people  who know the sect as well as this 56-year old Australian. Rinder grew up in a Scientology family. He was spokesman  and for more than 20 years was the boss of the Office of Special Affairs, the infamous secret service of Scientology. He left in 2007 because, as he said, he could no longer deal with the totalitarian methods of the leader of the sect. In his first interview appearing in Germany, he explains that an open revolt in Scientology is only a question of time.

 

(photo)

The Scientology building in Hamburg: The sect is almost nowhere else as disputed as in Germany.

SZ: Mr. Rinder, is the Church of Scientology stuck in a crisis?

Michael Rinder: Indeed. And if you want to know why, you have to know who Debbie Cook is. She has written this critical email – and she belonged to the Sea Organization in Scientology (Note by editor: That is the name of the sect’s elite-unit; the members wear military-looking uniforms and address their superiors with ‘Sir’). Unlike people like me, Debbie was still a member of the church. She was loved, she enjoyed  great deal of respect. That means that most members would have read her email.

What Debbie wrote appeals to Scientologists: She quoted the policies of L. Ron Hubbard (Note by editor: The still glowingly worshiped founder of the sect by the members who died in 1986). And she remarks that much of what the current leadership of the church does today is in gross contradiction to that.

SZ: According to Scientology Debbie represents a single opinion, stemming from a “small, ignorant and uncleared look at today’s world”.

Rinder: That’s a lame PR answer. An attempt at damage control, no more.

SZ: And how big is the damage?

Rinder: Considerable. The reactions following that first statement show that too.  Now Debbie is even being called an apostate. This may sound bizarre to you but that is a message specifically directed to the members: Debbie is an apostate, do not believe anything she says!

SZ: What do you think how many members secretly share Cook’s criticisms?

Rinder: The majority.

SZ: Seriously?

Rinder: Yes. If parishioners could openly talk to you, each one could tell you a story about the ‘vulture culture’.

SZ: Vulture culture?

Rinder: The obsession to squeeze as much money out of people as possible. This thinking has permeated the whole organization. And when Debbie pokes the finger into the wound any Scientologist knows what that means.

SZ: Then why aren’t there thousands of such protest-emails?

Rinder: People are in fear, especially from the media. Debbie had not intended that her mail would be known.

SZ: Do you know what is happening with her now?

Rinder: No, I am not in touch with her.

SZ: But if someone knows how Scientology deals with a critic it is you.

Rinder: That is true. I have quite a good idea of what is now going on. First the face book police are  activated. They inform all members that Debbie may not be anybody’s Facebook ‘friend’ anymore. Following that she will be given the label of “suppressive person” – and disconnection. And then you will see more and more attempts to position her as a liar, as someone who has no clue. As an apostate with an axe to grind. That is the standard procedure.

SZ: And does this work?                                                                                                             

Rinder: Not as good as it used to. Many, many staff members of Scientology live in a totally isolated way. They read no press. They shut themselves off from anything that could be critical. But now this is reaching the parishioners – and through them the criticism reaches the staff members. For any parishioner asking questions, they need someone to deal with it. Anyone doing so will be confronted with the criticisms – and when this repeats, sooner or later the staff  member will start to ask questions himself. That is the beauty of Debbie Cook’s criticisms. In the short range it will only produce an echo in the media. In the long term the consequences are enormous. Doubts are sown. It will bear fruit.

SZ: Let’s talk about David Miscavige, the chief of Scientology and best friend of Tom Cruise. Are we witnessing the beginning of the end of his rule?

(Michael Rinder led the secret service of Scientology for 20 years. Then he dropped out.)

Rinder: No, that began way back. But what is happening now will speed up his demise. His power depends on people listening to him. That they believe that he will lead Scientology into the land of milk and honey. When this image is shaken, the whole structure of the church starts to shake. The church is in his image. Nobody can do or decide anything without Miscavige’s consent.

SZ: A dictator?

Rinder: Absolutely.

SZ: How well do you know him?

Rinder: Oh, I know David Miscavige. We have worked together very closely for a long time.

SZ: What kind of a man is he, on the good as well as the bad side?

Rinder: Clearly, the bad dominates.  But the good…He is an extremely fast study and there is almost  nothing he cannot deal with intellectually. But he uses his intelligence to manipulate. He is  incredibly  vain and very resentful. When you question something he says he’ll teach you a lesson. He keeps everyone around him off balance and in fear. His punishments are often arbitrary. You never know when you have to clean the toilet or get beat up.

SZ: Did he beat you?

Rinder: About 50 times. He had me clean toilets. I had to sleep on the bare floor. I was put into “The Hole.” Stuff like that.

SZ: Have you ever defended yourself?

Rinder: I only raised my arms in front of my face. I really wasn’t the only one. There are many reports about his attacks.

SZ: You supposedly also did some of that.

Rinder: Yes. David Miscavige told me and others: “Go and beat so and so. And if you dont’ do that I will do it and will give you a beating afterward.”

SZ: Scientology rejects what you say. Your own wife described you a liar on CNN.

Rinder: Out of fear, people like my wife say anything. They start marching like good little robots and spout what David Miscavige dictated. There were several ex-wives of defectors on CNN. Two even used the exact same formulation.

SZ: It is being said that Miscavige has a dog and staff members must salute it?

Rinder: Correct. The uniform is blue with gold stripes.

SZ: You call yourself an “independent Scientologist”. What does that mean?

Rinder: I believe that Scientology philosophy can help people lead a better life. However, the organization uses this knowledge to pull money out of their pockets.

SZ: Do you yourself not wish to annihilate critics and dominate the world?

Rinder: No. And I know that especially in Germany this is a huge topic. This arrogance: We are superior, we alone know the way to happiness. It is David Miscavige who is responsible that Scientology and its members are considered radical. While this image really does not match the truth of what Scientology stands for, it is reinforced when the church proceeds against critics and journalists like you and treating them like dirt.

SZ: You mean the infamous “fair-game”-rule, the merciless dealing with critics. That, by a long shot, is not the only fundamental, why Scientology has such a bad reputation. Such rules have always existed. They are the invention of the founder, L. Ron Hubbard.

Rinder: That could turn into a long discussion. I can also understand that you see it this way. The fair-game rule should never have been written in such a manner and has been badly misinterpreted. The same goes for the “disconnection”-rule…

SZ: The duty to break off contact to people, who in the eyes of Scientology are “suppressives”

Rinder: Right. But if you were to read all that Hubbard wrote about that, you would see that this was considered a last resort. Disconnection is designed to allow someone to lead a happier life. When you are in an abusive relationship it is best to cut off the contact. That is its purpose. It is supposed to be a tool for the individual not as a political tool of control where the church tells people who they are not allowed to talk to.

SZ: When one listens to you, it sounds as if Hubbard had been innocent. Ronald De Wolf, the oldest son of the founder of Scientology, who passed in 1991, described his father in an interview as a sadistic, violent and paranoid occultist, who, contrary to his own teaching of purity, drank like crazy and took drugs.

Rinder: First I know that Nibs (Note by editor: nickname of De Wolf) later retracted this statement. And number two I have spent myself a lot of time with Hubbard. He was the most brilliant person I ever had the pleasure of meeting. Yes, he had a temper and could get angry when something went wrong. But was that always like that? No. Did he treat people like Miscavige does? Not a bit. Did he take care of his own family? Absolutely. Did he take drugs? Absolutely not. Was he polite? Incredibly so. Was he humorous? Very much.

SZ: All that sounds very terrific. But it was Hubbard who made this steel hard differentiation between the supposedly spirit-liberated Scientologists and the rest, the “wogs”, the “raw meat” the “suppressives”. This worldview of black and white, friend and enemy is Hubbard in pure form. And you, Mr. Rinder, experience it yourself since your exit. You are now one of the bad ones. Even your family has declared war on you. How do you get all that under one hat?

Rinder: I do that by pushing that kind of thought about the church out of my life. I see it as you do. This attitude that we fight against the rest of the world and have to deal with any critic as an enemy is wrong. You may possibly find passages from Hubbard that you could use to support this.  So what? There are many favorable passages that say something completely different. I am not a full-time explainer of Hubbard that has to think at each sentence how to defend him. I only want the abuses to cease that are now the order of the day in the church.

SZ: Your wife describes you as a man that hates children. Your daughter calls you a bigamist. Does that hurt?

Rinder: Of course it hurts. But I know why they are doing it. They think they have no choice. My goodness, they even visited my 86-year old mother in an old folks home and got her to write me vicious letters. But I know who I am. I know how I live. I now have a 5 year old step son that I love tremendously. We have a great relationship. If I was such a fiend why would Cathy stay married to me for 30 years? You know, I don’t even read any more all of the dirt that is being dumped on me.

SZ: Do you see any chance that you and your family could make peace at some time in the future?

Rinder: Only if they wake up. Only if they recognize that they had been brainwashed.

SZ: If you summarize all of your experiences, how do you see yourself then: as a perpetrator or as a victim?

Rinder: I am not a victim. I harvest only a part of what I have sown myself. For that reason I will contribute my part to end the abuse of this organization.

SZ: There are few countries where the Church of Scientology is dealt with in such a critical manner as in Germany: as a dangerous cult ruining people financially, knowing of no freedom of opinion that attacks critics and dropouts without regard. In short, as danger.  Can you comprehend this criticism?

Rinder: Clearly so. I’d like to plead though to differentiate.  It is the organization and the command personnel that are the problem, not the simple parishioner. That latter should be allowed to think and believe what he wants without being branded. In many cases these are the same people that are being abused by the church, by extracting money out of their pockets and are being controlled with the threat of disconnection.

SZ: The German Agency for the Protection of the Constitution is also very interested in that last point.

Rinder: And correctly so.

270 responses to “Rinder: Open Revolt Against Vulture Culture?

  1. Jawohl, mein Herr! Way to go, Mr. Rinder and thanks for enlightening the German people!

    • ZIba… you too! 😉

    • Mike Rinder !
      Very Well Done !
      I can ONLY imagine the impact it has within that the media come to you for interviews and opinions and analysis. More so than Karen Pouw at OSA INT !
      Still the International Spokesman ….but without having to sleep on the floor, get beaten and eat rice and beans.
      I have never seen you look so good….

      • Thanks Karen, and to all those who have had kind words to say in response to this posting.

        It is sure a lot easier to do this when you can speak from the heart without filtering everything through the lens of “is this going to be acceptable to COB” (which is a conundrum in itself as it is very difficult to predict what his reaction will be, from “you didnt say what I told you to say” to “why did you say that [what I told you to say]”, to “why did you even do the interview in the first place” to “you look like shit.”).

        And of course, it’s really a pleasure to sleep in a bed each night and eat real food.

        I will continue to do all I can to expose the truth. I have an obligation to do so.

        • BELIEVE ME YOU, LRH IS LOOKING OVER YOU AND THANKING YOU TO THE BITTER END

        • “And of course, it’s really a pleasure to sleep in a bed each night and eat real food. I will continue to do all I can to expose the truth. I have an obligation to do so.”

          And it’s okay, Mike. Thank you. Really.

        • “I will continue to do all I can to expose the truth. I have an obligation to do so.”

          Mr Rinder i feel you have met and exceeded any ‘obligations’ you may have felt you had, now it is just causing increased respect and admiration of all thaose who have seriously followed your efforts over the last few years.

          • Mike’s feeling may run a bit deeper than ‘obligations’. We may be whacko, but we do have hopes of making a difference. We appreciate Anons’ untiring efforts as well. Some are in a position to do more than others, and their satisfaction will be commensurate. (Life is so unfair.)

            • “We may be whacko, but we do have hopes of making a difference.”

              Nothing Whacko in that !! (and in my humble view ‘you guys’ are!!)

        • Change is happening … google news for “scientology” is now being spammed with “press releases” about all sort of fine things the C of S is doing, such as “Church of Scientology Nashville Launches The Way to Happiness Campaign‎,” “Church of Scientology Hosts Tony Harnell’s “How to Succeed in Music” Seminar,” etc.

  2. I am reposting this comment from SunnyV here as it was just posted in the thread responding to the previous post about Annie. As I am probably the one that started the use of POB I wanted to make this known here. Sunny’s comment:

    Just a little note. I find calling David Miscavige the POB amusing and I know Scientologists love to use abbreviations but please make the effort to type out the name DAVID MISCAVIGE when you are posting about him – particularly when they are posts about his evil and abusive behavior. Google search results will be factored on the number of time a word appears on a page – by using POB all the time we are actually lowering the chances of someone finding some of Marty’s posts when they type in “David Miscavige”

    This was a hard lesson learned a long time ago by a critic community. They liked to spell Scientology in creative, or funny ways, particular “$cientology” — but this had the effect of keeping them off search engines results for the actual word “Scientology”

    I’m not saying stop calling the nasty little piece of shit whatever you want, but if you are posting about something specific to him just make sure to also spell out his name in full at least once in your post too. I just want to make sure Marty, and other truth sites, go to the top of google when you type in “David Miscavige” and believe me the day Marty’s blog is the first hit for his own name – you might hear the screaming all the way from INT.

    After feeling sick thinking about the life he forced Annie to waste in that godawful prison and trying to hide her death, I was trying to come up with something useful anyone here could easily do that would help spread the word about what he did to Annie and continues to do to so many others… and the search result metrics seemed like a perfect little way to help spread the word a little further…

    • Good advice, Mike and Sunny. I try to spell it out in my posts by calling him “Mr. David Miscavige” as the church does. Only for me, “Mr. David Miscavige” is code for “Lying piece of sh*t who should be run out of Scientology on a rail.” I use it ironically🙂.

    • David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige,
      David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige,
      David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige,
      David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige,
      David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige,
      David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige,
      David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige,
      David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige, David Miscavige, AKA
      POB, is a sociopath and a psychotic POS.

      Just doing my part and lending a hand.

      Great interview Mike!

      • ROFL, Tom!

      • LOL – You’re a card!

        • And Sam, your a full deck. Do you have any ideas regards an Indie Independence event this year? I hope it’s centrally located in the USA. Never-the-less I’ll be there. Promise.

          Now I’ve planted a seed………..

          • you’re not ‘your’, sorry.

          • Well if you’re all willing to schlep it over to England I’ll be happy to organise it! Otherwise we’ll have to grab a hold of Christie who’ll probably need to turn her Indie party I/C hat over to someone or at least get a lot of help – it keeps getting bigger!
            I’ll be there too. Not sure how because it’s always in the middle of the school year but somehow I’ll make it go right again.
            Christie?…

            • Amazing — I was just thinking about this — Fourth of July again, right.

              This year I have not scheduled any retreats at that time and definitely will be coming.

              Am happy to offer any help I can be — as well as suggestions to hold it on the East Coast (selfish of me, I know) —

              Love,
              WH

            • Sam are you showing your roots,?, the only other person I know who uses that word is my friend Lin!🙂

              SCHLEP -Yiddish שלעפּן (shlepn, “to drag”); compare German schleppen (“to drag”).

      • man a bit of respect!
        at least pre-fix-it correctly: His Holiness pob david miscavidge.
        darn it!
        …or was it Orneriness?

      • Firebreathing Frog

        Don’t over do it. This will be considered spamming.
        So just a few mention of David Miscavige should d the trick.

      • +1
        David Miscavige
        LOL

      • Tom, I wish to add one phrase to your comment. To quote from the Mike’s comment from Sunny, “the nasty little piece of shit” David Miscavige. There. Now it’s complete!

      • Good one Tom!! 🙂

    • “David Miscavige” and believe me the day Marty’s blog is the first hit for his own name – you might hear the screaming all the way from INT.”

      I laughed at that, but it is also true. The only way David Miscavige can stay at the top is if his name and his dirty deeds stay out of the mainstream.

    • Thanks that is a very constructive idea.

      God damn Scientology POB David Miscavige.

      Burn in Hell midget.

    • BEATING # 37

      What Happened:

      DAVID MISCAVIGE: “Take THAT you little incompetent CO#%SUCKING twerp!!!!” WHACK! SLAP! BOP! POW!

      MIKE RINDER: “OUCH, OH OUCH!”

      What Mike may have been thinking: “Goddamn it, I’m so sick of this shit. I should jump up and throttle this little Nazi bastard and kick the living shit out of all his fu#@ing back-up! I’m gonna re-think this eternity monopoly thing, too! ”

      DAVID MISCAVIGE: “THERE! THAT’LL teach you! Now go and beat those people on the list before I beat YOU again!!! Now…BEAT IT!”

      What Mike may have been thinking: “I’ll stab you through the eye with this pen you fu#@ing poster-boy for corrupt fake Nazi midgets!”

      MIKE RINDER: “Yessir! (mumble)”

      DAVID MISCAVIGE: “WHAT? WHAT DID YOU SAY??”

      What Mike Rinder may have been thinking: “I said shut the fu@% up before I pound you with my fists so hard in the face they’ll have to staple a photo of you to your neck stump to be able to recognize you!!!”

      Mike Rinder: “I said, ‘YESSIR!’

      DAVID MISCAVIGE: “Oh.”

      What Mike Rinder may have been thinking: “Yeah, that represents the number of people who are going to support you when they find out all this crazy fu@%ed up shit you’ve been pulling! HA!!!”

      • You have a way of capturing the essence of Miscavige!

        Mike- as usual – great interview. Death by a thousand cuts. Yet another slash!

    • SunnyV
      Very good advice.
      +1

    • The Church of Scientology has specialized for years since and even before David Miscavige came into office, of trying to force anyone that is critical of the church in any way to live in fear and terror of what the church may do to them next to silence them. That was not L. Ron Hubbard’s plan for things. Now, how does the church like living with the kind of feelings ever day that they always thought was big joke to get other people to cause themselves? And most people are just minding their business. The Church of Scientology is the one always pointing the finger at someone without ever pointing it at itself. Times have changed and so have the people in them. I have always respected you Mike as a Scientologist and as L. Ron Hubbard said, never allowed your affinity to be alloyed. Very good interview!🙂

    • Thanks for this, it’s good to know.

      Besides, a reference to David Miscavige, without the appropriate titles he has earned would not be complete.

      So here is to David Miscavige, aka POB, slappy, misscabage, little one, etc.

    • Mike, Spectacular interview, really. Regarding search engines, for the search term “David Miscavige” Marty’s blog is #13 and Scientology-cult.com is #14. Not too shabby considering neither website are that old.

  3. Mike speaks Truth and Truth is a very powerful tool!

  4. I just posted this comment on the previous post, but think its important enough to repeat just to ensure people see it:

    Just a little note. I’m find calling David Miscavige the POB amusing and I know Scientologists love to use abbreviations but please make the effort to type out the name DAVID MISCAVIGE when you are posting about him – particularly when they are posts about his evil and abusive behavior. Google search results are factored on the number of time a word appears on a page and how many views it gets – by using POB all the time we are actually lowering the chances of someone finding some of Marty’s posts when they type in “David Miscavige”

    This was a hard lesson learned a long time ago by a critic community. They liked to spell Scientology in creative, or funny ways, particular “$cientology” — but this had the effect of keeping them off search engines results for the actual word “Scientology”

    I’m not saying stop calling the nasty little piece of shit whatever you want, but if you are posting about something specific to him just make sure to also spell out his name in full at least once in your post too. I just want to make sure Marty, and other non-CoS propaganda sites, go to the top of google when you type in “David Miscavige” and believe me the day Marty’s blog is the first hit for his own name – you might hear the screaming all the way from INT.

    Also, great interview with Mike. I tried to read it somewhere else yesterday and lets just say the translation was awful, this was much better and I’m glad I found a more accurate translation to read.

  5. Thanks Mike, you or any mod just delete my repeat post I just submitted. Right after I typed it in I saw the new post went up and just thought, no one will ever read my previous advice if its one of the last comments of 358 previous ones.

  6. Mike Rinder – best DA interview EVER on differentiating Miscavology from LRH and Scientology!

    The Little one is going to need more than Scotch to get over this piece of news.

    “Wer andern eine Grube gräbt, fällt selbst hinein.”

  7. Fabulous!

    One more step towards the fall of Rome. Let’s all KSW!

    Well done.

  8. Fantastic! Very, very good!

  9. Awesome job, Mike. There is a huge difference between Mr. David Miscavige and L. Ron Hubbard, and I thank you and Marty for continuing to point that out.

    At the end of the day, it is up to us to repair the damage the church has done to Scientology, the subject, and every day the Independent field delivers standard tech is a day that gets us closer to the goal.

    Speaking of winning, Trey Lotz posted some nice stats on Facebook: Six L11s, Two PTS rundowns, an OT Review and a Clear Check in the last six weeks. Awesome!

  10. Sometimes I ask myself how did I get a slave of David Miscavige and his dramatization on the executives lines !? well, learned a good lesson for the rest of my existence. Thank you Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun

  11. Extremely well done, Mike.
    I remember telling my sister and her husband about what was, what is and what will be with regard to my association with the cult of scientology. It was so easy, so effortless, so high ARC to simply tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Like getting off a big withhold I’d been sitting on for years and years.
    The truth is that LRH codefied axioms and developed procedures which, if used correctly can help a man lead a better life in harmony with his fellow man. The truth is there is a lot of useful stuff in the subject.
    How we use that information in the present and the future is now up to us, not “them.” And if we create harmony with it, it will expand and help a lot of people.

    Thank you so much, Mike, for your truthful and harmonious slaughter of david miscavige’s dictatorship.

  12. Mike
    Reading your words is every bit as enjoyable as sitting down to read a favorite book or poem. You are an artist who paints beautiful truths.
    xxx

    • Totally second that. Mike speaks with honesty first, sprinkled with humour and always with integrity. It really is edifying to read and listen to. Personally I can’t get enough.

      On the note from Sunny V, I do agree but isn’t it the case that Google, like any business, has its price. If the cult wants their sites at the top of the rankings when one searches the term David Miscavige, they just make sure they pay enough money for it as I understand it. My own business regularly gets bumped off the top listings by some new Jonny-come-lately imitator simply because they’ve paid for it.

      However, in the spirit of the info:

      David Miscavige – you’ve been found out mate
      David Miscavige – you’re not wanted any more
      David Miscavige – the world is laughing at you
      David Miscavige – tick tock tick tock …..

      • Martin, i can shed a few more details on how google search algorithms work and you aren’t far off base in some regards. Google became the most popular engine because they had a smarter algorithm – just spamming it won’t work. (And we don’t want spam, seriously we talk enough about David Miscavige, give important information about his behavior, that just referring to him by name in our posts about him at least once – the job is done and it’s good searchable useful info.) Google didn’t just look at how many times a word appeared, but how many people actually clicked on something related to it – meaning the info was useful to actual users when they were searching something.

        Anyway, the Cult of Scientology can always pay to be at the top of the “Ad search results” – the one I always ignore and is always clearly marked “google ads.” Scientology spends a lot of money on google ads, its jaw dropping. However, they do have their devious methods of trying to rig actual results too. For instance hire hackers (or “consultants) in eastern europe, to run programs so “scientology” is searched and what do you know – their official site is clicked! Thousands of times. That bumps up their results in google since the algorithm is sees it as “data being used by users in relation to the search word.” They do try dirty tricks to rig results — they’ve always tried to cheat the system. Google is on the look out for this, and will block ISP they find doing it – but more will pop up its a constant fight.

        Scientology has been trying to keep info. on the internet away from people for 20 years now.
        Here are some of the results:
        When the first few critical appeared online (including alt.religion.scientology) the cult tried to get every CoS member to do a “personal website” — this was one of their first attempts at spamming a search engine. They figured if their were thousands of individual “I am a scientologist” websites the critical sites would be buried. This was soon recognized as the spam it was. Then the CDs they gave Scientologists to create “websites” from their computers secretly installed a “net nanny” that would block any websites with certain words – and the list was long. (The critics of course got a hold of the CD and cracked the net nanny and its list of blocked sites and words.)

        But the ultimate footnuke for the cult was filing all lawsuits to have information removed from the web – boy did it backfire. The first time they did this was mid-90’s and they suddenly made enemies of an army of people of didn’t care at all about Scientology, but were very passionate about free speech and information. They didn’t learn from this and years later when the Tom Cruise video was leaked they tried to strong arm it off the net — and by doing so created “anonymous”.

        So let the cult keep trying to suppress or rig information online, because every attempt at eventually backfires or fails. We aren’t spamming, simply just telling the truth about one David Miscavige and his evil, corrupt empire – and legit information needs to be easily searchable – not his puke worthy propaganda websites he’s desperately trying to rig in the search results. The truth and useful knowledge will always win.

        • Great info Sunny. One thing we can count on is that the cult never learns. They can be counted on to shoot themselves in the foot over & over & over. They do not learn from their mistakes. They repeat them.

        • Sunny,,

          Agreed. Truth ALWAYS prevails.

        • Just for search engine information: I have some little hobby web pages. On one page I promote my music. Once I noticed google and yahoo about it years ago. That had been my only marketing thing about my pages. Meanwhile my google ranking is within the first 10 search results. I think to try to manipulate search results is contra productive. Ranking is a matter of interest. From my countries google „L. Ron Hubbard“ gets 3.410.000 results and „David Miscavige“ only 395.000. Go David, you can make it.
          Looks like people are not very much interested in you. Vertical into the ground I would say.

      • Martin, there are two different things phenomena in Google. The first is the search — you can’t pay to have your company come up higher in the search results. As Sunny V pointed out, there are some “dirty tricks” that people use to try and boost their place in the search rankings, but Google is often quite good at defending itself against tricks of the type that Sunny V describes.

        The place where you can pay Google for improved position is in the ads that show up on the side of the search results, or in other places such as some sites’ ad banners. There’s a bidding system for search terms that trigger your ad, such as when someone searches for “car insurance” or “mortgage refinancing.” The ad rates are set by the number of bidders for a given term. That’s the place where you can “pay to play” but the ad listings are clearly identified as such. Scientology can buy lots of ads but they can’t affect the search ranking. It’s like the separation between editorial and advertising that’s supposed to be sacred in newspapers and magazines in order to preserve the credibility of those publications.

    • I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again– MIke Rinder has potentially the best comm cycle I have ever heard in my life- within Scn and without. He just gets his point across so well that it becomes nearly impossible to not duplicate….. unless of course you are in a brainwashing cult. But we don’t know anything about that do we? Do we? {Sigh}

  13. All this outflow-Marty’s blog, Mike in the media, Debbies letter- is having a real impact. I just got a frantic call from an old friend- “what is going on??!!! I haven’t been happy for years-This David Miscavige is a lunatic.” He calmed down as we talked and he is now on the real road to truth.This is someone who just recently paid 10s of 1000s of $s for objectives and he is OT8!!! More are coming out!!!!!

    • Ingrid, you’re the coolest chick in town.

    • Nice! I’ve heard similar stories from others.
      Added to the outflow are the indies and radar-flyers – still keeping a mountain of those pesky emails moving on the lines 😉
      I’m about ready for some new contacts beautiful fighter pilots!
      firewitch888@hushmail.com

    • Super! Great news Ingrid!

    • How nice, Ingrid! So glad to hear that. As an OT8 I am fortunate to have dodged the bullet on ” Now EVERYBODY HAS TO DO an Objectives Re-Do. And OTs of course have to pay class 9 Intensive prices…!” BS. I received a response to Debbie’s letter from a German Scientologist that that there are 12 co-audit teams in the Berlin Org on the Objectives Re-Do. There are people who go unconscious as soon as the auditor says, “This is the session!” They only wake up when the Auditor says, “EOfS.” Oh huh…poor over-run souls…

    • Thanks for the that Ingrid. Great to hear this kind of feedback. Real statistics – in fact a graph should be kept. Number of people woken up for the week. These guys need to be de-oppressed and gotten back on their feet, with their boots on ready to put ethics in and fight back against this tyrant who wrecked their church and sabotaged the tech LRH left as his legacy to help mankind.

      Here is LRH:

      “Now as you first establish an ethics presence, you establish it hard. After a while you can be careless about it. But you have to establish an ethics presence hard. Otherwise, you’re just gonna be wrapped around a telegraph pole. You’re gonna be worked to death. Cases are gonna start falling on their heads. You don’t know whether you’re going or coming. You say, “What’s going wrong? What’s going wrong?” Well you must better look back to about seven or eight days ago when they carted that PC off to the local hospital, and you didn’t assign that auditor Enemy. Auditor submitted you a false report, the auditor didn’t like the person vividly and took that as an opportunity to cut the person to ribbons. Things like this happen. It’s an aberrated planet. And you didn’t do anything about it.

      “You can get it in hard, suddenly and shockingly, or you can get it in on a gradient. It doesn’t much matter how you get it in. But you get ethics in. You start assigning some conditions. And when things have gone this bad, brother, it is not a condition of emergency. It is not a condition of emergency because when tech goes out in an area you’re liable to have even government flaps in that area. That’s how bad it is. So an organization which has out-tech is attracting the lightning right down on the back of Scientology, boy. And you never really have government flaps or anything like this in areas where tech has stayed in. Because there are too many satisfied people, there’s too many friends. See? But when tech slips, and it isn’t working any more, then it doesn’t seem worthwhile.”

      L Ron Hubbard
      Class VIII Lecture “Ethics and Case Supervision”

      P.S. Somebody forgot to assign David Miscavige Enemy when he did what he did to Lisa McPherson.

      • Sooth:

        “… you never really have government flaps or anything like this in areas where tech has stayed in. Because there are too many satisfied people, there’s too many friends. See? But when tech slips, and it isn’t working any more, then it doesn’t seem worthwhile.”

        This should be cast in bronze.

      • John,
        Haven’t you seen that little “red ribbon” on his chest? Has a gold star on it? That’s a rare one that enables him permenant ethics protection. Can’t be touched.
        I actually met a guy who really WAS awarded such a ribbon by Ron. Well, he got “touched” anyway by Mr. David Miscavige. Took an Class VIII/Original FEBC and turned the guy inside out. Now he couldn’t find KSW#1 wtih two hands and a flashlight..
        Whatever Mr. David Miscavige, POB, is doing… it is the exact OPPOSITE of what you posted above. Ethics Presence? He is the epitome of Anti-Ethics presence.

    • Ingrid, great news

    • Awesome! I am seeing it on my lines as well. The lie that Mr. David Miscavige owns your eternity is crashing down, down, down.

  14. So good on ya Mike. Lately my thoughts have been on comparing today’s church with that of the 70’s and very early 80’s. On a smaller scale there were similar PR problems then, many issues on PTS handling, and lots of PR Programs to handle public opinion. The difference is A) our problems were on a much smaller scale within the church, and B) Tech was being delivered with good results. Great Auditors, C/S’s and OT’s were made. If one delivers good results the tech will be accepted.
    Today there are no results which could be considered “winning” within the church that I know of. And look at the PR problems the Church has now, despite all the failed programs and new “units” to “help” mankind.

    Your interview shows people that there is a difference between actual Scientology and the David Miscvavige ‘church’. Thank you.

    Roy

  15. Fantastic article. Respect to Mr. Rinder.

  16. WakingUp(in2012)

    Things really are heating up, pressure on Scientology reform is building… can’t wait to see how this all plays out for one Mr. David Miscavige. Will this make two Scientology leaders whose lives ended in hiding? Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t LRH himself in hiding at the end of his career, surrounded by only a handful of confidants, avoiding courtrooms and lawsuits from multiple countries? This above the law, “answer to no outsiders” attitude is going to be the downfall of Psycho Second-Leader (aka David Miscavige).
    Miscavige looks like a damn coward…. what’s the matter Davey, too scared to come out and face your accusers? Your rule is coming to and end. Debbie Cook can take your place, and reestablish the Executive strata!

    • Show your support for Debbie Cook by joining this page. This page is linked on Debbie’s facebook profile, so in my estimation it is one of the best ways to possibly reach on-lines Scientologists, since many of them are on Debbie’s friends list. I would love to see this page promoted more and for opinion leaders/celebrities (Travolta tops my wish list) to communicate on this page, then for media to talk about the page, etc. (I do not run the page by the way.)

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/We-Love-Debbie-Cooks-Email/298417233528559?sk=wall&filter=1

      • I do run this page. This is an example of what can happen on a FB page. It has brought the attention of CNN, NBC and family members of this baby to help try and solve the case or in some cases defend themselves. It has opened my eyes to the potential of Facebook to address injustice and seek change. There are over 4 million post views and over 1,800 members following the page. It has been in existence under 3 months. We are going to get justice for Baby Lisa Irwin with the help of KCPD and the FBI. This is just to show you the power of a Facebook page, and that I think the We Love Debbie Cook’s E-Mail page is a powerful tool.

        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Lisa-Irwin/290185081005988

        Other pages I run (both just created yesterday):

        Where is Shelly Miscavige?

        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Where-is-Shelly-Miscavige/300245310027425

        Justice for Lisa McPherson

        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Lisa-McPherson/210520222371326

      • Who operates the page?

      • Hello John Nunez,
        please could you do me a favor and share/post this comment on the “We Love Debbie Cooks Email” Facebook Page?
        It’s not the best english, I know.

        Thanks,
        SKM

      • Dear John,
        I believe what Debbie wanted is to spread the email all over the scientologists, pls encourage to that instead webpages with support for propaganda as the way she made the e-mail is based on a very precise serie of steps, so is my recomendation to keep spreading the email like hell.
        http://www.asesor.xscientology.com

        • Propaganda? What are you talking about?

          • Maybe I was not clear enough or i was missduplicated or even I better I didnt find the proper english word for it:
            I was refering promotional item “we love debbie” as a support page wont do the desirable effect, and is my own opinion is not from anyone else that besides the webpage on facebook could be taken out very easily no-effort to take out of circulation, Debbie’s intention was to propagate the email, 12000 people is not enough and If we want to show Debbie our support lets keep doing that, spreading the email, i translated it to spanish for al Latinamerican scientologists, i wish people from other countries do the same for their areas so full penetration of the message converts in to LOCAL and not just an english email for other countries, I have no intention to disscuss on this page as I am a reader and even i have not the biggest friendship with Marthy there are several things wich are very nicely done by him, and I can see he is correcting a lot of things that the Sea Org made using his post, influence and his face among the years, I do thing he is trying to effective and good take down the false propaganda from the Church and expose the truth, I am doing the same for Latinamerica area with the difference I am not intending to lead another area for scientologists, I am denouncing a lot of abuse and anti-humanitarian things from Sea Organization over Latinamerica. Have a nice day need to be back to work.
            Rafael Gómez
            http://www.asesor.xscientology.com

  17. Climbing a 9' High Board Fence

    Thank you Mike for the very competent differentiation between Scientology and what David Miscavige is doing and has been doing for decades. I am well aware of beatings from this self proclaimed abusive dictator going back as far as 1982. My experience includes personally being on the receiving end of a beating and being secluded away under gaurd to witnessing him verbally abusing and hazing others in a degraded fashion.

    I first witnessed his arrogant verbal abuse and attempted verbal degradation a couple years before the physical assault.

    To hear now of the magnitude and frequency of these actions being done decades later and now not just by David Miscavige but others as part of his regime is horrifying. Thank you for the clear differentiation between David Miscavige prevailing practice and L.Ron Hubbard and his written and spoken works.

    Thank you as well for not hiding from any part you witnessed or took part in of David Miscavige’s diabolic fiendish practices, stepping up to the plate and exposing these crimes to the light of day. It takes guts and integrity. It is very obvious the hideous practices of David Miscavige grew over time.

    Truth at any point in this ‘oh so very brief’ history David Miscavige has on the stage will move him aside. It is comforting knowing one can land on the side of truth no matter if one has strayed. There are those who stick with this attrocious so called leader. When he falls with the light of truth shining in the area they too will hopefully step up or scatter like cockroaches.

    • Good stuff. I love your name by the way. That’s such a great policy letter.

      Thinking about David Miscavige, he reminds me of a wild dog or a wild mustang – perhaps a combination of both. It’s a damn shame the vain son of a bitch couldn’t show an ounce of humility and route himself onto the RPF. If that animal could be broken and made into a normal human being, he’d be a hell of an asset.

      As it is, he is a complete and utter liability. He has betrayed the Commodore, the man who took him under his wing, promoted him up the ranks and smiled at his hard work and production. Little did LRH know what a 1.1 streak this bastard has. They are hard to spot, and his rock slamming service facsimiles were not in full bloom on the wrong targets (his own teammates) yet.

      Miscavige reminds me of myself to be honest with you. However the difference between him and I is that I am in present time, and he is not. I recognize my true enemies, and he does not. I care about the tech, and he does not. He cares about being right, I care about the truth. So we are very, very different in the final analysis. I wonder what fighter training he has done, he seems so full of himself and ready to trade blows. From the rumors I hear he needs a couple strong men standing by just in case things go astray. I’d love to see how tough he is in an octagon with just me and him in there.

      Have my thoughts gone too astray? lol Anyway, good post.

      • “Thinking about David Miscavige, he reminds me of a wild dog or a wild mustang – perhaps a combination of both.”

        In a recent post I compared him to a dragon that fiercely protects his hoard. This then reminded me of Smaug from The Hobbit and I thought I’d refresh my memory of the character as I haven’t read the book since childhood. Whilst reading an article on Wikipedia, I came across this little nugget:

        According to Tolkien, Smaug’s rage was the kind which “is only seen when rich folk that have more than they can enjoy lose something they have long had but never before used or wanted.”

        Thinking back to the comparison I had made previously, I wondered what Miscavige would hate to lose despite never using or wanting it.The answer was so simple…

        Scientology.

      • john, dm was closely educated by the commodore since his 16 years and later. he is not betraying him.

        • Please state your evidence for the assertion that DM was “closely educated” by LRH. From everything I have seen, he worked directly with Hubbard for only a short time.

        • False. Get trained. See for yourself. Give a session. Give an assist. Help someone with good listening and a good acknowledgement. Put somebody’s ethics in. That’s LRH. That is not David Miscavige.

          He has betrayed the man in the worst way imaginable. You simply have been misinformed.

          I did the Briefing Course and walked the path from 1947 to present time book by book, bulletin by bulletin, lecture by lecture. I saw the blood, sweat and tears he put in to providing this wisdom.

          Moreover, my life changed for the better just by receiving this education. Life got simpler, I got more ethical, I started caring more about others, my family relationships improved. Then I applied the material in session with people and saw them change for the better right before my eyes.

          My certainty on LRH’s intentions is unshakable. My certainty that David Miscavige has betrayed him and must go is unshakable. Even my certainty that it can be put right again is unshakable. I am thrilled at this certainty.

          My hope for man has been shaken over the last three months, witnessing psychosis up close in trying to find a missing baby but being given nothing but shit from quite a few trolls and clowns. On top of that, every missing person over the last 3 months has been brought to my attention on a daily basis. I saw up close how screwed up some parents are, how drug infested our culture is, how song lyrics have gone in the gutter in certain circles, how badly the world is out of communcation, and how men are more likley to be a coward than a real man with a spine.

          It apparently served a purpose, as I cognited how valuable the Church of Scientology COULD BE in solving these problems if it got back on purpose. It is the correct order of magnitude, it has a bunch of cash, a bunch of buildings, a bunch of good people, and an amazing technology that really does make more powerful people.

          Thank God and thank LRH I have a stable datum, a truthful one to boot. My purpose has been restored. And it brings a broad smile to myself to contemplate all the families reuniting in the near future with all the disconnection BS cancelled and removed forever more. Things are going to come out all right, just as LRH said they would when things get chaotic.

          We have the truth on our side. We will win. And that means everybody wins.

          • Jhon, you say ” Little did LRH know what a 1.1 streak this bastard has. They are hard to spot, and his rock slamming service facsimiles were not in full bloom on the wrong targets (his own teammates) yet ”
            LRH was full OT by that time period and was unable to spot the tone level and intentions of this kid ? . Maybe i am misinformed but i am receptive to your comments and this blog posts.

            • It’s a fair question. I wasn’t there so don’t know what happened. I imagine there are people on this blog who could explain the situation better than I could.

              LRH was under a lot of suppression during that period. He was in hiding from the U.S. government if I understand correctly. People under suppression make mistakes.

              Have you ever made a mistake? Should we judge you by that one mistake or your whole body of work?

              • Fair answer Mr. John. I wonder if these mistakes are in written LRH policy and in need of correction/cancelation ?. About the tech, it is not a problem for me to use it or let anybody use it freely.

                • I will step in to this to add some question:
                  – So we are asuming DM is a supressive person?, I dont defend him as personally met him and know how he is, but lets see some points:
                  0. We dont have his total divisions earned by tone arm of every session he had ever had on his entire life, are the twelve points fully IN for being a suppressive person? or just is making supressive acts due: ignorance?, influence?, self importances? we dont know for sure, not a single data or true or valid data about that, but lets see this:
                  1. Educated close by LRH doesnt mean he has all the expertise about traveling around the world learning culture, because such experiences only can be lived not be told and learn all from it. Even LRH didnt finished any superior formal Education and that is a fact unless somebody comes and shows at least one validated Univeristy Certificate.

                  2. In order to manage an International Administration what are his credentials?, OEC at least? and most important regarding Data Series No. 25 LEARNING HOW TO USE THE DATA ANALYSIS wich pretty much establishes how the hell he would imagine the ideal scenario if IS NOT HIS IDEAL SCENARIO after all?, at least HAS HE EVER managed a own business?, a small franchise? has he ever personally directed a MISSION, GROUP, CLASS V ORG?, FSO? – No – So how the hell we expect he does it on a huge International Managment Company? just by carisma? (he is…. but that doesnt last long.)

                  3. He passes the entire life discovering all about LRH: WRONG TARGET, He should have been passing his entire life DELIVERING WHAT LRH made so far and was not altered until he started to do it “thinking LRH really thought this or that” HE IS NOT THE SOURCE, he is not LRH, so why altering and searching all about LRH life?
                  LRH never wanted to be on a pedestal, or worshiped, he is doing it and is a very unique marketing positioning wich wont last long.

                  4. Until wich grade on a normal school did D.M. actually was sucessfull? for sure severl of the top management people were profesionals on their fields and some were WDC and advising to every single staff around the world but ON WICH FIELD DOES DM IS AN EXPERT? (and dont tell me on scientology because that could create A HIDDEN DATA LINE WICH IS NOT TRUE, all about scn is on LRH basics and materials so lets jump from there).
                  WHO IS DIRECTING THE LIFE AND PURPOSE OF THOUSANDS OF LIVES AROUND THE WORLD THEN???

                  Rafael Gómez
                  http://www.asesor.xscientology.com

  18. Really great job, Mike. You made several important distinctions very clearly. I will steal some of those for my own use!

  19. Nicely done Mike R. It would be a scream to see Germany accept independent scientology religious practices while disapproving of corporate Scientology.

    Appears to be in the making.

    • You know, when I saw that Marty and Ursula Caberta were in the same room doing an interview together I saw that too. Who would have cognited that the two of them would be working together? It does appear to be in the making, that Germany can and will accept the difference between the Independents and what the Corporate Church of Scientology (run by David Miscavige) have become. The difference being that people in the Independent movement are happy and free in beingness, and the people still in Corporate Miscavigeology are living in fear and have to hide their unhappiness. No one should have their eternity used as a pawn in a game for one man’s need to dominate.

    • A H,
      If it wasn’t well on the way the paper’s headline would have been quite different and the journalist would have attacked Mike’s responses far more.
      Greta

  20. Journey Continued

    Great interview Mike. No HE&R on your part, just clear truthful communication. No making up excuses or pleading to be a victim, just open honest communication of the truth. In my view this communicates on all levels: to the Government; those who have had nothing to do with Scientology; the independents and staff. Clearly differentiates between the old man, the philosophy he created and his good intentions, and the current Church of Scientology under the ruthless dictatorship of David Miscavige. Very well done – a powerful job that will help focus the attention on the real creator of misery and destruction.

  21. Now that I’m out, my only regret is that I did not leave the Radical Church of Scientology back in the ’80’s when it was high jacked by DAVID MISCAVIGE.

  22. Mike,

    Though this interview is in writing, I can clearly hear that “Aussie” accent answering up! FYI; Both staff and public always loved hearing from you during events and missed you after you suddenly “went out for extremely top secret Executive type auditing like… Super Power or L’s ” along with all the other Int terminals: Guilliame, Heber etc. Yes.. Org staff were told this BS line when asking questions.

    I also sense that it must be be extremely liberating to have the freedom to do an interview and be able to answer straight from the heart & soul based on “your own” reality vs. answering or “no answering” whilst not actually seeing the reporter in front of you, yet having full blown conceptual pictures of being ripped apart, humiliated or beaten by David Miscavige having been “flunked” on your PR skills.

    Well Done! Loved it and I’m passing it on to others!

  23. Well done Mike, read like a breath of fresh air.
    Bet it didn’t feel like that to dm.

  24. Tony DePhillips

    Great job Mike!!
    I think David Miscaviage is on a collision course with hell!

  25. Excellent interview, Mike! Perfect for non-Scns who need to differentiate between David Miscavige and L. Ron Hubbard – and the insanity of what they see and where it comes from!

  26. Mike, you did a wonderful job of differentiating LRH and Scientology from David Miscavige and the radical organization he has recreated in his own psychopathic image.

    This was a superb public relations interview and probably has done more to fix the public image of Scientology in eyes of German citizens than anything in the past 10 years. I would venture to say that because of the wide readership of Sueddeutsche that you may have really started to reverse the negative flow in Germany. Your humility, honesty and sincerity shines through in the entire interview. The German public are very educated and will not fail to see this, especially in comparison to the absolute arrogance displayed by Tom Cruise, David Miscavige and Tommy Davis.

    Thanks Mike for a major contribution to saving the image of LRH and Scientology in Germany.

  27. Michael Rinder,
    Bravo! Bravo!

    Leonore

  28. Very interesting read! Thank you for posting this. I’m glad that Mike does not see himself as a victim and is working so hard to expose the abuses of David Miscavige (that terrible little man). All the best to you, Mr. Rinder!

  29. Good Show sir, You get Ceak and hugs.

    I feel ambigious the “drugs” bit to keep it civil, but heey It’s my godgiven right as a dutchman to smoke weed if I want to wich I do very seldom.

    Something tells me Miscavige is a rich junkie, one who has the means to sustain his many habbits.

    Carry on

  30. Could someone from the Corporate side please pink sheet Taryn on the definition of, ‘bigamy’ as it means being married to two people at the same time; Mike isn’t, unless this is based on a photo of Christie on Facebook wearing a ring. personally, I’d check facts first. If I wear a veil, it doesn’t mean I’m a Muslim. If wear a cowboy hat, doesn’t mean I’m a cowboy.

    And trivia: bigamy is illegal most places, but legal in The Maldives, weirdly enough…

  31. Bravo Mike Rinder!

    David Miscavige has led his church followers into a war they cannot win.

    Vietnam?

  32. Perfect on Martin Luther King day! What Dr. King had to say about “vulture culture” in society:

    ““We must rapidly begin the shift from a ‘thing-oriented’ society to a ‘person-oriented’ society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.” – Martin Luther King

    The many people coming forth make the public aware of the seeming endless suffering and betrayal of ideal from David Miscavige hijacking and perversion of Scientology.

    “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” – Martin Luther King

    Take heart! Truth is universal!

  33. Also, one should write about the “Church of Scientology” so the Google ranking for Marty’s blog moves up a little bit higher.
    Well done on the interview Mike. It’s beautiful to see how German Newspapers start to differentiate and quoting L.Ron Hubbard to demonstarte how wrong the Church of Scientology is not following the intructions of L. Ron Hubbard.
    There were several articles in German newspapers quoting L. Ron Hubbard (I write it out because of Google ranking!!!!!!!!!), even about the famous quote “make money , make more money” and talking about that this Quote has nothing to do with the philosopy of Scientology, it being taken out of context and its just a normal instruction to the bookkeeper to maintain financial solvency as any other organisation would do. This is a milestone !
    Soon, the german government will ask the Church Of Scientology of keeping Scientology working and following the policies of L. Ron Hubbard.

    Please write out all this words so the blog moves up:
    – L. Ron Hubbard
    – Church of Scientology
    – David Miscavige
    – Mike Rinder
    – Marty Rathbun
    – Dianetics
    and any other related words.
    Google will then send more traffic to that site.

    Have a nice day .)🙂🙂

  34. Excellent interview!

  35. Your humble servant

    Mike, you are a scholar, a diplomat, and a warm-hearted, effective spokesperson. Thank you for that terrific interview.

  36. Mike,
    Your interviews are a true joy for me to read/listen to.
    I hear you speak, and in my mind I see you standing by… foil in hand, always and the ready! You are as skilled with words as you Earl Flynn
    with a sword! Light-hearted and easy, yet… touche’! Winning out every time.

    So glad to have you on our team! Truth sounds so much better from you.🙂
    There are others very skilled as well, but you have masterful skills!
    All the best to you! May 2012 be even better than the last!
    John in west Texas

  37. Excellent Mike!🙂
    That is precisely the truth that the people in Germany, Switzerland and Austria need to get.
    Where to next? If you can’t say that is fine as well.
    Greta

  38. Mike,
    Another great interview, exposing David Miscavige – the Dear Leader, POB, Misc, Chairman of the Vulture Culture, ad nauseum.

    You are the LRH PPRO! (personal PR Officer) rescuing his good name from the mud that David Miscavige continues to drag him into.

  39. Really nice job, Mike.

    David Miscavige is NOT Scientology.

  40. Great job Mike. It’s not easy to hear about how you and the others lived while in the Hole. I’ve gone through so many emotions connected to the stories about it. To imagine the scenarios that so many have described that happen to them while in the HOLE by cob David Miscavige is chilling and only worsened by knowing the cofs Church of Scientology has a staff and field full of people who have chosen reverence (or compliance out of fear) for cob David Miscavige over LRH.

    With the work that is being done on so many fronts like this article and this blog I can see that the change of condition is being enforced.

  41. This great interview proves that it is more easy to tell the truth than to invent complicated lies, use generalities or twist the question to blame some conceived enemy.

    And that the truth is also more convincing to the readers.

    Bravo Mike !

    • Ditto that, Han.

      The church has no reply. Its coffers may be full of stolen treasure, but its members are gagged, and the people surrounding David Miscavige aren’t even Scientologists, but lawyers, private investigators, civil accountants, and a speech writer who wouldn’t touch the cans with a bargepole. A speechwriter because David Miscavige isn’t competent in the language, nor confident enough in the subject of Scientology to use his own words.

      Unlike Mike, whose plain words come from the heart, and say so much.

      And thanks, Marty for keeping the line open and comm flowing, it’s hugely appreciated.

      Happy New Year to all!

      Rich

  42. Very well done, Mike. Thank you.

  43. Honestly, I would like to know what “Problem of Long Duration” David Miscavige is trying to solve…Someone close to him please give him a Ton 40 Command: Come into Present Time!

    • Ziba,

      The problem of long duration is: “others around me are attaining freedom and getting more powerful.”

      • Hence Mike, he’s a whole track suppressive. Correct? And simple enough?

        • Tom: Right you are.

          Here is something to ponder. Is it really any wonder that the most valuable and workable technology to help man has attracted the most able, conniving, ruthless whole track SP? Seems to be a perfect match to me… And is it any wonder that people don’t see it? A long time practicing the art has made a competent practitioner….

          • Thanks Mike. You’re profound and succinct.

            Anybody have any q

          • Spot on, Mike!

          • There can be no doubt. LRH and Scientology were the known target from day one.

          • In CS-Series 22, Psychosis, LRH notes “Orgs are subjected to a lot of this.”
            The question why this is not perceived I have tried to answer on Steve’s Blog. It is the mechanism behind the Confusion Formula.
            http://www.scientology-cult.com/waking-up.html

          • Mike Rinder said, “And is it any wonder that people don’t see it?”

            Frankly no, not really. I see a lot of Scientology processes not being run to make people more able, but to reduce people’s ability to think for themselves and to not rock the boat. When you have so many people falling for the same trap, you have to look at the design of the trap and ask yourself: “Why was it so effective?”

            “What’s true for you” introduces the notion that “truth” is created, rather than being a stable datum to seek and discover. It sounds safe and non-threatening, but in practice it allows your perception of truth to be manipulated.

            The idea that “reality” is only just “agreement” on what is real: This allows a group of determine what is real or not, rather than what actually *is* true. So rather than what is “true for you”, it becomes “what is true for the group”, and peer pressure in Scientology is an obvious and overworked force used to either drag people along or to drive them out.

            “EP Phenomena” puts the lie to the “what is true for you” bit. It is enforcing the group’s reality upon the PC; and uses the carrot of praise and the stick of being stuck on the level to encourage people to get the EP. Obviously, there are cues in the process as to the conclusion you are supposed to reach. If you reach a different conclusion, then you are a “no results” case, and obviously you are “PTS” and must handle whomever is suppressing you from believing the way the group thinks.

            And of course, David Miscavige uses invalidation of EP Phenomena to rock people’s concept of reality even further, and the re-doing of levels as a further stick to enforce compliance.

            “Third Party Rule” is also a tool for manipulating people into the group and to cut themselves off from others. Somehow, two people (or groups) are not supposed to be able to have conflicts among themselves without a third party somehow pitting themselves against each other. In the absence of an actual manipulator, this is nothing more than using a scapegoat to bypass true resolution. And when the subject is Scientology, then the “Third Party” can be identified as any other source of information or opinion, such as a non-Scientologist family member, the media, the Internet, “psychs”, the government, etc.

            And of course, we have the “Suppressive Person” concept. Obviously, this has been David Miscavige’s favorite tool in his tool belt of coercion. It serves the dual function of threatening people who might voice dissent and removing people from the group who might get others to “wise up”. It is quite telling that disconnection was reinstituted by David Miscavige himself without LRH’s knowledge, as Robert Vaughn Young testified.

            So, Mike Rinder, I don’t see it as any surprise, at all, that David Miscavige would be able to take advantage of the Tech to become a controlling, abusive dictator. Nor am I surprised that Scientologists allowed it to happen.

            If I could point to one factor that explains how Scientology attracted a sociopath like David Miscavige and stood idly by while he seized the reins of power with a series of lies, it is because so much of Scientology has trained people to stop their own thinking and agree with the “reality” given to them by authority figures, drip by drip.

            (And frankly, if you study cults in general you’ll see that they all subscribe to the same recipe of authority, enforced concept of reality, group think, social pressure and expulsion.)

            It didn’t have to be that way, nor does it have to be that way in the future. But, I think it is important for Scientologists, moving forward, to realize the power of suggestion and of group pressure to manipulate people’s concept of reality. And I think a lot of people here are figuring that out as they grapple with the reality that they were trapped in a cult for a good part of their lives.

            As to most of those of us on the outside looking in, we know David Miscavige is insane. Where most critics get it wrong is that they think that all Scientologists are as nuts and as evil as David Miscavige. It’s taken a while, but I’ve come to the understanding that Scientologists are good people who are victimized by the Church of Scientology, and the longer they are in, the more they risk their families, their businesses, their friends, their retirements, and in some cases, their sanity.

            I appreciate what you’re doing, Mike Rinder, and best wishes for your endeavors in the future, Sincerely,

            Mr. Fancy

      • Mike,
        In relationship to the problem (of David MIscavige) of long duration, “others around me are attaining freedom and getting more powerful”: I think it is more along the lines of “others around me are attaining power and getting richer.” I don’t know that he is spiritually aware enough to have the concept of freedom for himself personally, as a being. It is my belief his overts of magnitude prevent him from having a perception of personal freedom, except for the kind of freedom which money provides. (Jet-setting all over the world, fancy meals, chefs, houses, apartments, yachts (the Freewinds), hairdressers, cars, etc, sleeping as late as he wants, going where he wants whenever he wants.

        It has long been my view that POWER in order to obtain MONEY has been the problem for him, and he felt the only way to get either, was by being a third party; and through the underhanded, conniving, vicious attacking of the REAL POWER. He does not know or understand the tech of how POWER is attained by one’s own efforts (in a positive, pro-survival way), so has to steal power from others. He is a classic example of being the adverse effect of things related by L. Ron Hubbard’s policy letter: YOUR POST AND LIFE. What is unfortunate is that he continually commits huge overts on the technology that COULD bring him his way to real personal ability, that is not tainted by his underhanded methods. His continuous overts that have gone “automatic”, bar him from real personal freedom of the soul.

        For many years, in fact my whole time in Scientology, I have had a memory of a long ago incident, which i believe is an earlier similar incident to the one we are involved in, now. It has only been in the last few years that I realized this incident would never go out of restimulation because it has been unfolding again before my eyes in present time. I have long wanted to comment on this, but was afraid of “being a case”, and before that, it was “too unbelievable to be true.”

        This blog is unfolding the TRUTH, revealing the real THIRD PARTY (TO LRH), and is clearing the group engram that is actually (IMO) a current fourth dynamic engram. Scientology truly does have the technology for beings to create a world without war, crime and insanity, and any person cutting across this line is committing overts on the FOURTH DYNAMIC, and every other dynamic as well. This is the chance for beings in this universe to have a real way out of materialism, as Scientology has the tech for putting spirituality back into the physical universe.

        For the above reasons, I am very glad that you are willing to do interviews and wear your hat as an LRH Personal Pubic Relations spokesperson, and let the world know the difference between true Scientology technology, and the altered version promoted by David Miscavige. Thank you for this. VERY, VERY WELL DONE!!

        Catherine Von Ach

        P.S. I was born in Austria, lived in Germany as a child and have many relatives in that part of the world. I am very grateful that Germanic peoples are getting the truth!

        • Sorry, for the typo. the above should read, Personal Public Relations Officer.

        • Because I have spent many, many hours pondering what would motivate David Miscavige to do what he does, and because for many years this earlier similar incident seemed to influence my life, I have a lot more to say on this subject.

          Having noticed for many years his extreme desire for power and money, I have asked myself many times, “Why would he want so much money and power?” (The old data series evaluator’s trick of always wanting to know the cause of a situation.) I came to the conclusion that it is a desire for ADMIRATION; a desire to liked, admired, held in awe, respected, etc., etc. But not necessarily by people up close and personal, but by reputation, or by being admired from a distance, like a desire to be famous, a desire to be source of all that is good, a desire to be loved.

          Naturally, as we reveal the ways he got his power and his money, he is being less and less admired, and is now becoming despised, detested, hated, considered evil, etc, etc. So we have a real GPM (Goals Problem Mass, a Scientology technical term) in the making. A thetan wants to be rich, famous, powerful and admired, and as time goes along all of these things become less and less as truth is revealed. I found myself falling into this trap of hating and despising him.

          Then I found Scott Campbell’s account here on this blog of the Hawaiian practice of being fully responsible for ones condition and using the concept of love and saying “I’m sorry”, and how this practice emptied out an insane asylum. I thought, well, I wonder if that would work on David Miscavige. I started flowing him love and saying “i’m sorry”, mentally to myself. i started realizing what I had done on the whole track that caused him to do what he did. I found out I actually had a part in making him the way that he is! My hatred for him dissipated, and I no longer had those negative emotions. That really shocked and surprised me! Instead I had empathy, and a feeling of sorrow over how horrible it must be to have done all the things reported here that he has done. But all hatred, and contempt was gone, and what was left was a desire that he be truly handled as a being in the way that Scientology was meant to handle people: with love compassion and understanding.

          Then I realized that what I had done was apply LRH’s principle of “What is Greatness?”, to continue to love man no matter what he does, and to not fall into the trap of hatred. LRH described that this might be the greatest secret of this universe, and now I can see that it really is. The way out is to love, and hatred truly is the road to disaster.

          I am NOT advocating that any of us be reasonable about what has been done by David Miscavige to Scientology, but I am advocating that we do not succumb to invitations to hate, no matter how destructive the actions that would warrant that.emotion, or mis-emotion, from us as individuals. I am advocating that we find things that CAN be admired so that we can as-is this GPM and get the show on the road! We Independents have a lot of work to do getting the true technology known and used, and applied standardly, even to David Miscavige himself!

          Much love to all and my thanks to Marty for creating an environment where I have a voice and can say things, like my comments above, without fear of disconnection, cut-off communication, and being thrown in a dark dungeon, never to be heard from again. (The earlier similar HOLE). LOL!

          • Lady Min wrote : “I came to the conclusion that it is a desire for ADMIRATION; a desire to liked, admired, held in awe, respected, etc.,”

            LRH: “Don’t desire to be liked or admired”. (Code of Honor)

          • Nice post! Responsibility for the past, and for the future, in the present, really opens doors on one’s own true nature.

      • 🙂

  44. Mike,

    David Miscavige only wishes he could comm with such sincerity and affinity.

    Sometime we should share a beer on the beach and talk about “hats” and “beingness” and “assumption of viewpoints” in the Independent Post-Modern Scientology.

    I say again, you ARE a spokesmen for the true spirit and meaning of Scientology. And your message comes from you – its not a Pepsi commercial or a stupid f&%#in rap video.

    Thx.

    Andy
    “…time and presure…”

  45. Current Google ranking I get for David Miscavige:
    1) Wikipedia
    2) Village Voice
    3) Moving on Up a Little Higher

  46. Well done Mike Rinder! More truth…the gift that just keeps on giving!

  47. Because today is MLK day and something needs to be said, I will render a quote here that seemks appropos to Rinder and then to the rest of us:

    “Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable… Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.”
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

    “It is tedious hard work to motivate people from their apathy and sleepyness”
    Martin Luther King Jr.

    Happy Birthday Martin

    • Michael Fairman

      Tom M
      The quotes by MLK Jr. are absolutely appropriate. Mike, Marty and all here are engaging in that “tedious hard work”. Dr. King’s dream has not yet been realized and our work has just begun, but as long as there are “dedicated individuals”, men and women of reason such as those who post here, and others doing their work unsung, the “goal of justice” will be reached.

      Mike Rinder, congratulations on a superlative interview that delineates clearly and concisely what the truth is and where it can be found. Your (as well as Marty’s and many many others) “tireless exertions and passionate concern” will put David Miscavige where he needs to be and free those still in the chains of his suppression.

  48. Note that David Miscavige does not let up on his abhorrent conduct. No change in ABUSE, no change on lockdown held-against-will at Gold Base.

    Whatever happen to those who tried to escape ?
    Quote:
    Russ got tired of two years in the hole and this past spring made a break for it. Unfortunately, his foot kicked the fence on his way over, and he was quickly apprehended and returned by Gold Security.

    https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/how-miscavige-killed-church-management/

    Russ has never been heard of since.

    What happened to people who asked to leave year in and year out that were held against will ? Julie Fisher ? Tom Ashworth ? Hundreds escaped and fled, others were not so lucky.
    Right now megabucks is paid to GOOGLE to promote the “Church” of extortion and unconscionable cruelty. But no ethics change within.
    They just do not realize that in this day and age, people Google beyond a google ad to find out about a SUBJECT, especially when it involves $$$$$$$.
    Hence the Scientology “Church” google ads literally HURL the public towards the whistle blowing sites.
    The “Church” is paying for more visitors to more revealing sites.

    • I undertand, so the correct thing to do is to ask persons to google Scientology completly.

    • Karen,

      Good points. The coverage of David Miscavige and his empire has not let up either, with recent coverage of down under TV:

      • Thanks Sinar.

        Wow. You gotta hand it to the media in Australia, they don’t back down.

        Even the host at the end gets in a last dig. The constant refrain from the church “they are just a small group of liars who got together and coordinated their stories” (I BET Don and Marty havent spoken to her since being on the Freewinds — if even then) isnt flying with the media these days. They are becoming openly contemptuous of the statements by church spokespeople.

        It’s tough being a church spokesperson these days — what on earth do you say? Unless Virginia is ready to leave the SO and Church, she certainly isnt going to go on TV and admit that any of it is true!! SO, what are you left with? “They are all liars” but that sounds really incredible so you have to say “they got together and coordinated their stories” and the reports know for a fact that isnt true. So, they D/A themselves. It’s not like the old days when the attacks were “you drove me insane by making me stare at someone for 2 hours” or “I suffered psychological damage from auditing” — at least there was a real response.

        It sucks to be a David Miscvavige apologist. Real bad….

      • And once again, here is another real world example in this video of someone from the church using the standard RCS protocol of “everyone that is saying these things about the Freewinds is an organized liar, everyone’s stories are false, except us “The Church Of Scientology”. As serious as this is I fear I must say to the church “Please don’t make me BARF!”🙂 Why is it that everyone in the world is a liar except the Church of Scientology according to them? The church could be burning down in front of their eyes and the fire department shows up, and because it’s bad PR a CLO Aide says “It’s a lie. There is no fire!’🙂

      • Good find Sinar. Seeing that footage of the interior of the ship brings back all the stomach cramps and bad memories. Some of the worst weeks of my life were on that ship, and I was just a public at the time! The tension and fear was palpable. One time in ’93 there was a COB David Miscavige briefing to all Finance Banking Officers on board either shortly before, or after, the “war is over” event. One poor soul had the temerity to give Miscavige an honest answer to one of his questions. The staff who witnessed it were aghast that some one had “backflashed COB” and the certain knowledge that the stafff member in question was in for, at the very least, a severe reality adjustment and behaviour modification. The pressure to stay longer, donate more money to the IAS by maxing out your credit cards, etc was relentless and even worse than at Flag, where at least you can walk out the building. However as public, the imprisonment of wayward staff members is well hidden. I did get a tour of the engine room and didn’t see anyone cleaning the bilges or anything like that.

      • Tom Cruise you are aiding and abetting kidnapping, Slavery and Chilabuse

        Sue me in England you closet dweller

  49. Great interview Mike. It will certainly go a long way toward handling the Black PR regarding Scientology in Germany and other parts of Europe.

    Thank you for continuing to wear your hat in life.

    • Scott,

      note that there has been black PR to Co$ members that there is “black PR against Scientology” in Germany. Which can only be handled by – guess what ? – huge IAS donations😮

      While current journalists hardly write articles to show up the benefits of properly applied Scn tech, they are usually very aware that Co$ will sue the holy s*** out of them if they write plain untruths. This is also true here in Germany.

      For decades journalists used to report about factual Co$ flubs (from members driven into bankruptcy to strange deaths to OSA crimes etc.), and some add a few good old 1.1 comments to it.

      I cannot object to them. Most Co$ flubs have been very stupid if not outright criminal. And Co$ members have not been instrumental in correcting the path of their church. While at the same time claiming to be good Scientologists, harassed by the evil press. This is below confront (which is at 1.5 on the reality scale), and thus comes close to 1.1 – i.e. Co$ members in no higher tone scale position than journalists.

  50. Mike
    I have just in the last 3 days come out of the dark. I have put up with this crap for too many years and i just want to scream to every Scientologist to look for themselves. I was fortunate enough recently to recieve my objectives from a Cl. 9 auditor to the tune of $65000. What a ripoff!!!! I am so pissed but also relieved to finally know the truth of what has been going on. THIS BASTARD IS GOING TO FALL! and I think it will happen soon and I am willing to be the one that gives him that final push. I admire you for allthat you have done. Keep it up.

    • $65K? OMFG…………………

      You could have donated that to Super Power. Or the IAS (I Am Stupid). Or any of the other boondoggles of DAVID MISCAVIGE.

      • Well c’mon Tony, Phil should have paid the $65 Gs for the Objectives and donated an amount equivalent or greater to both the IAS and Super Power. Where’s you head at?

    • Phil – VWD and welcome. This is the world of Independent Scientologists who are allowed to think. Once you have learned more of what has gone on, how and why, you will see how opposite things have became from what LRH dreamed of. Part of that is the differentiation of the Scientology of LRH as distinctly different than the actions of the C of S under DM. This is being done in actions such as Mike in this German publication.

      Some LRH for you on this:

      …”There is freedom and happiness and plenty and a whole Universe to be won.

      He who would not see it is far from worthy to rule. He who would indulge his hates is too insane to advise.” Journal of Scientology Issue 10-G, LRH

      • Li'll bit of stuff

        S.A., Excellent advice and utterly brilliant last 2 paragraphs.

        MARTY & MIKE! Please consider using the above for a
        feature article! Straight from LRH! Potent message!

        Phil, big welcome to your “new” version of freedom Li’ll bit

    • Phil is that you, who completed OT VIII quite recently commenting about a fruit bowl or fruit cake one gets upon finishing OT VIII?
      Greta

    • one of those who see

      Hi Phil, Welcome to the light! $65,000 – that really sucks. But you are among many with the same reality and their own stories. Believe me.
      I think you are going to enjoy being out here with freedom to communicate.
      As John Connor said in Terminator Salvation: “If you are listening to this message, you are the Resistance.”

    • Hi Phil-I just talked about you-so happy you are actually coming out !!!!! There are alot of nice people here!!

    • Don’t forget to get your refund request in within 90 days after the service you are dissatisfied with.

    • Dear Phil,

      I’m just curious about. Could you tell a little bit how that is to get those objectives again ?

    • I mean in the sense of:
      What was promised and what did you get ????

    • Per policy, if you had the the auditing in the last 3 months you can ask for your money back.
      Per the auditors code from the recent Basic Books:
      24. I promise to see that any donation received for processing is refunded following the policies of the Claims Verification Board, if the preclear is dissatisfied and demands it within three months after the processing, the only condition being that he may not again be processed or trained.

      I hope you do this if you just got this auditing. Everyone asking for their money back will push them over the cliff.

      And you can get cleaned up in the independent field.

      Best of luck to you.

      • All I got from moxin and kobrin was, “We have no legal obligation to refund you anything.” However, legit claims will be paid in the very near future as miscavige falls and his corrupt cult crumbles. Machinery is in motion and the bulldozers are about to wreak havoc on his evil empire.
        After the dust settles, all will be well and thetans will be free to move about the universe or settle down in Arizona, whichever they prefer.

        • Wow they are knowingly violating the Auditor’s Code, one of the most basic policies of the Church. That tells you everything you need to know about the state of that organization. No concern for LRH Command Intention.

    • George M. White

      Phil,
      Wow! I did objectives in 1974 for $650.
      I did OTVIII in 1989, and it was the complete level before Mr. Moth-cavige truncated it.
      Welcome, you are now out of the dark.
      If you desire the OT levels, you will get them complete from the independents.
      Corporate Scientology has zero chance of ever restoring the original
      OT levels after the alterations by Moth-cavige.

      GMW

    • George M. White

      $65K for objectives!
      Boethius said of Mr. Moth-cavige:

      “But an all-devouring greed
      Yawns with ever-widening need.”

      GMW

    • This is fantastic Phil! Every person who sees the truth and does the only sensible thing by leaving is another small victory for truth over lies, freedom over slavery. And with friends like Ingrid, you really can’t go wrong! There’s a ton of great people around here – (there’s also a few like me who regularly diminish the value of the blog with rancorous sarcasm and ll-timed poor jokes, but you can ignore them).

      Get your 65k back man, ASAP!

  51. There’s always something nice when Mike Rinder gives the little black pope, David Miscavige, a good ass whipping.

    Carry on.

  52. Great interview!

    Truthful “C” of the ARC triangle is about the only thing that can fix Scientology’s blown to smithereens reputation in a country like Germany.

    I’m really glad you could talk so freely. Certainly must be a good feeling.

    Great job.

    • Thanks Karen,
      I just got a bit of an impromtu instruct from Chris Black to read C/S series 55 in relation to a situation. One of the things that struck me from reading it again was a confirmation of something another C/S (who worked with LRH personally) told me. That is, that the ultimate focus of LRH in all the tech development and in all his C/Sing, that LRH’s concern was for the well being and spiritual progress of the PC or Pre OT.

      Public Relations becomes a piece of cake when you have real wins from your students and PCs. Defending oneself is easy when the results are obvious. Finding the real crimes of those who attack you, when you are yourself in-ethics, is not hard at all.

      David miscavige is not seeking out and attacking the people who have real crimes. He’s seeking out and attacking those who represent an obstacle to his corrupt power structure and his criminal-exchange money machine.
      Miscavige is mostly seeking out and attacking people who get real results. That’s who he’s most terrified of.

  53. Dear Mike Rinder,
    thank you for speaking again in the media and making the distinction between Scientology and the Vulture Culture.

    LRH writes in “An Essay on Management” (August 1951):

    Management is subservient to goals but goal finding is not in command of management. So long as a management realizes this it will continue in a healthy state as a management and the group, modified by natural factors such as food, clothing and general abundance, will remain in excellent condition. When management fails to realize this, the goal finder, even when he is merely an individual who enjoys the making of vast fortunes, shifts the management.

    When the goal finder is actually high Theta and management forgets the quality of ideas (or doesn’t ever quite realize their potency) then, again and more so, management will be tumbled around, for a Theta goal finder has behind him a group and in a moment can become much more group than management and easily empties out the halls and palaces.

    A management that discredits its goal finder or perverts the communication of goals of course dies itself but, in dying, may also kill a group.
    L. Ron Hubbard
    (emphasis mine)

    I have seen the big picture of Independend Scientologists Meeting from 2010 and 2011. There’s nothing else to say.

    Thank you.

    • Maybe one thing left to be said:
      It’s very nice to see happy people reunited and still living the goals of LRH.

      Just imagine how many people will re-connect once The Manager is gone.

      My needle floats.

    • Perfect LRH quote SKM.

      Just to add more emphasis, I think this LRH quote clearly answers why the Church of Scientology is dead.

      “A management that discredits its goal finder or perverts the communication of goals of course dies itself but, in dying, may also kill a group.”
      – L. Ron Hubbard

      • Yes, that’s the inevitable, natural thing.
        What Dear Manager is faced with now, is the paragraph I emphasized above.
        Not only from the “many out there” but within his own ranks and from his, as he believes, blind followers.
        But yes, even if there is no one left to “put his ethics in” on him, he will do it himself. It’s a natural thing. It’s a law. No matter if he ever quite realized its potency.

  54. Thanks for your responses and support. I did OT 8 in 1990 and have been trying to get back onto 7 for years. I actually feel like I can now. This last few days has been one big blowdown for me.

  55. Sail on Mike Rinder! Awesome interview and like the song says, it is because you are real.

  56. VWD Mike…OK, OK David Miscavige it is.

  57. RE: Debbie Cook’s email
    =====================

    Hello Scientologist,
    you’re still on-lines and you would like to back up Debbie Cook?
    Continue to spread her E-Mail and do not hesitate to talk to your fellow Scientologists about it.
    If you want to stay „under the radar“, require on-policy and in-tech on your lines. Spot discrepancies to LRH.
    If you are told that you need to go to the EO (ethics officer), then say that you would not know why you should to, just because you read an e-mail that was sent to you.

    If there is an attempt to discredit Debbie – “she is an SP”, “she has long been out of the Sea Org,” “She was a NCG (no case gain case)”, “she is nattery because … “) or the like – then you should at least keep in mind that the information she has provided is not less true.
    I also recived a email, where the OSA guy wrote that “FLAG is expanding like crazy since Debbie is gone”. And “I have a friend in management in LA and he told me… ”
    This is just another attempt to maintain the status quo. Don’t buy it.
    They are not on the road to Truth – they just try to keep David Miscavige as Pope of the Scientology religion, instead of demanding the proposed management structure as laid out by LRH. Some of them just do not know better. In fact many of them. Lots of great people.

    In some cases you may even be able to help them to look for themself.
    Keep your TRs in and be calm. It’s your right to live with the Truth.

    If someone wants to handle you in your org because you have read the e-mail, you should ask for FDS (false data stripping).
    Since the information contained in Debbie Cook’s e-mail are consistently correct, they can not be “stripped”. Some of them you (maybe) can not know, in that case, ask questions. But don’t loose the other points from sight.
    As part of FDS you have the correct data shown, but this is not possible, because the data of Debbie is correct already.
    [ Example: it’s true that LRH didn’t approve the IAS.
    And, BTW: it is true for Germany, that government attacks came right after IAS started its Out-Exchange “registrations”, before this even staffs in Germany had good pay.]
    Say you don’t want to listen to anybodies ideas, or „I heard from a friend who is in management“..
    You want to see the stats, you want to see the Exec Strata.

    * All LRH quotes that Debbie had given are correct, provided with the correct date.
    * The Exec Strata was not seen in a long period of time and that is a FACT.
    * No one can testify that the IAS has the money NOT hoarded somewhere. Let them do the math.

    An “ethics action” under these circumstances is what it is, an “reality adjustement”.
    It also causes you self-denying – That is, give up your own independent viewpoint. and adapt to the third dynamic. There is of course nothing wrong about third dynamic and rules, but a third dynamic consists of individuals (with their own viewpoints, decisions). Do not allow that the Members of the Church are handled as “Oneness”, a “borg” (as in Star Trek) or the iRobot Troops.
    You have the right for your own life, your livingness. You want to have a group of people full of joy, spending their savings for what they want. Service, life, whaterver they desire.

    Require FDS. You will raise the confront of your counterpart with this action, because the person will perform on himself FDS (when he was “just told” that the data is wrong without him having read it yet).
    Do the right thing. Ask why all about the e-mail from Debbie Cook is neglected. Even when she was off-line for years, some of the data could be of some worth and you ask to look at the data and compare it with the real scene.

    The tone level of the group (org lines) never was as low as it is at that time.
    Debbie gave the first command, to LOOK. This brings about some charge and many people feel upset – but they feel so becuase there are no true data given to them. Many are in doubt about the Management and the management lacks of true Group Auditors. And so they lie.

    LRH writes in “Group Dianetics”, Jan. 1951

    The auditors of the group must be individuals fully schooled in the ideals, rationale and ethic of the group, whose integrities are not questioned by the group. The whole keynote of the group auditor is honesty and truth—uncolored, unvarnished and unsuppressed data. In this way a good auditing job can be done. The auditor to the group is discovering what has been done to the group and is running it. There is no need of going over and over one of these engrams beyond exposing the information thoroughly and competently to the view of all and permitting all members of the group to discuss that information as they wish. The group itself may then decide upon certain actions but so long as the group itself is doing the deciding, not an individual or just a few individuals in the group, no engram is created.

    Punitive action, with the knowledge and consent of the whole group and dictated by that whole group, cannot be said to create engrams so long as that punitive action does not fall outside the rationale, ideals and ethics of the group itself. In other words, punitive action undertaken by all the individuals of a group and understood by all the individuals of a group does not create an engram. Action of a punitive character taken by one individual in the group without the understanding or consent of other members of the group will create a lock or an engram.
    L. Ron Hubbard

    All OSA does is “not-is” and “make-wrong”. Dead Agenting works, but you need true data.
    There was a big vacuum for a long time and Debbie Cook came up with her mail and filled it. Dead Agenting won’t work. OSA will need to confront the correct WHY and grow them self some balls if they want to protect the Legacy of LRH. I know, it’s hard for them too.

    What Ron would do?

    • And if you FDS, the person has to give you the true data to study. So, say you did the false data stripping steps on “the church is hoarding billions at the same time it’s sucking huge unnecessary donations from parishioners”. Now, you’re supposed to study the true data. The church, of course DOESN’T PROVIDE TRUE DATA in writing, so it can be used in FDSing. (Remember, if it isn’t written, it isn’t true.) So, asking for FDS is the correct action. because when you don’t get the true data to study, you can then justify holding on to the data they want you to perform a “reality adjustment” on.

    • Thank You SKM.
      And may I add, ensure you read the WHOLE reference, and not an excerpt taken out of context. Something which one shows you out of context can become a completely different thing when reading the whole HCOB or PL. Same for tape excerpts…listen to the whole tape.

    • “She [Debbie] was a NCG (no case gain case)”

      Yeah sure, that’s why she appeared high-toned and remained at the helm of Flag for some 17 years.

      “FLAG is expanding like crazy since Debbie is gone”

      Yeah sure. But who wants craziness ? You have to subtract all those re-done objectives and all the staff drafted for training (e.g. to deliver the “new” comm course and HQS) from orgs all over the world. And then the stats of Flag will be declining, just as the rest of COB’s “church”.

      The next thing they will claim about Debbie is that she was paid to disaffect COB. Paid by whom ? By the martians or something.

      Oh, I just love those martians😉

      • Yes, you’re right.

        She was a NGC and that’s why she was routed out from post. Sounds “logical”… But what about she was slightly PTS to the NGC King Dave Rockeslammer?

        BTW, the “new” HQS is full of crap. TRs out of date.
        There should be a standard Course with HCOBs instead of some “Based on the works from …” substitute.
        The new DIV6 LIC courses are maybe not that bad, but even those lack the LRH source materials. You never know where it’s from and how the data was changed. It opens the door for even more verbal data.

      • “FLAG is expanding like crazy since Debbie is gone.”

        BS. Ask to see the graphs.

    • Yes, exactly.
      Ask for FDS.
      And stick to the truth.
      Look, don’t listen.
      And make them look for themselfs, too.
      Don’t participate in off-policy and out-tech solutions.
      Do it and you will help more people.

  58. one of those who see

    Mike, beautifully done!! You are truly a professional. Communication is the universal solvent and you do it so well. It is truly lovely to be in ARC with the world.

  59. Mr. Rinder,

    A well spoken from the heart and truthful interview. it will have and has already had a large effect.

    The translator did you well.

    My best to you and my worst to David Miscavige.

    David

  60. I feel your loss Karen,,,,,,,,Heber

  61. Question With Boldness

    Mike you have definitely resumed your post!!! Thanks!!!

    Here is an update on the effects of Debbie Cooks letter in Colorado. Today I counted 19 people whom agree with Debbie Cook. These are people in good standing. Many of these people are now reading Marty’s site, Friends of LRH, etc. These are just the people that I know of. The Denver field only has about 150 active Scientologists. Even though, Karin Pouw made a statement in the Denver Post, that there are 9,200 Scientologists in Denver. This is affecting the fundraising for the reno’s at the new Ideal Org. Sita Benatantos is having a difficult time getting her undeserved commissions.

    Even though, OSA, DSA’s and Ethics officers put the fear of God in people not to talk about entheta. Scientologists are good at communication and they talk amongst themselves. I remember every 6 mos check, as soon as I would walk into the door of the Sandcastle, someone would give me the lastest skinny on what to expect, which way the pendulum was swinging and how long to plan on being there.

    With this kind of results, maybe families will reconnect soon and public and staff will be able to do the Bridge.! The curtain is being pushed to the side and the Denver public and STAFF are starting to wake up! They are not so willing to be led down the yellow brick road now. Barbara Dews is not quite so easily selling Objectives to OT’s either. There is starting to be a ripple effect this week.

    I do not think that there is enough trusted SO that can be sent out on a mission to handle all the disaffected people all over the world that are waking up. Good job Debbie!

    Cindy

    • Cindy, awesome news!!!! As for the mission to handle all the disaffected people….not going to happen!

    • Thanks for this report. Great news! I also checked Marty’s site stats since Debbie’s email and they are in a lovely strong affluence trend. The cat’s out the bag and running down the street meowing with joy!

    • Hi QWB
      I have a couple of questions for you, and anyone else who got sucked in to donating exorbident amounts of money for their local monoliths.

      Were you led to believe that the local org would actually own its own building?
      Or were you informed that david miscavige would own it?

      Are you saying that the people who collect donations for the building get commissions for regging them?????

      Were you led to believe that this program was an actual LRH program based on actual source issues?

      Or were you correctly informed that this whole program is contrary to LRH policy, but that you are doing it anyway?

  62. one of those who see

    I read a GEM by LRH today. Was reading in the 2D Book! I’m not sure it’s in the new tech vols. It’s called “Educational Approaches.” Page 248 in 2D book. From Basic Reason-Basic Principles The Dianetics Auditor Bulletin Vol 2. No. 3; Sept. 1951. Tech Vol 1 pp 148-150
    This is SO applicable to the scene with Scientologists still marching in lock step and also the training changes by David Miscavige and the complaints about robotic auditors and rote handlings.
    Here is a bit of it::

    “Self-Determinism and Reason
    Reason, the ability to extrapolate, is hand-in-glove with self-determinism. As soon as an individual feels that he has a right to reason, to extrapolate on data, he will do so. As his right to reason is inhibited, his self-determinism is inhibited in direct ratio. As self-determinism is inhibited, not only does he feel that he has no right to move where he wishes or do what he wishes, but he feels that he cannot use the data he observes. The rehabilitation of a person’s self determinism is the rehabilitation of his ability to reason. They are almost the same thing. His ability to move and act at his own command approximates his ability to reason at his own will on his own data. Processing is not getting data out of the preclear; it is not assembling his life for him as a complete, consecutive play-it is increasing his self-determinism and his right to reason. A man whose self-determinism has been three-quarters rehabilitated may still have arthritis which hurts, but the auditor has done a good job. But if the arthritis is gone and self-determinism is diminished, the auditor has done a bad job.” LRH

    To Ron: Thank you Sir. This has handled my uncertainty regarding my upset with my last cycle in one of the higher orgs.

    Marty, unfortunately I have not had the privilege of getting audited by you. But i have read here for a long time and see the results you get. Obviously you totally get what Ron says here.

    We can also see here the great difference between David Miscavige’s viewpoint and Ron’s. I choose Ron’s viewpoint.

  63. Mike,

    Outstanding interview! You wear the hat of spokesman beautifully. Very very well done, my friend!

  64. David Miscavige, and his “Squirrel Busters” are so confused!!!!

  65. Great interview Mike. Even though not all the questions to you were the perfect questions, you responded with perfect answers on all of them. It was nice to see the understanding and sanity that you gave. It will spread.

  66. Mike,
    I loved your interview! Thank you for doing it!

  67. Mike – a splendid interview!!!!

  68. Mike – your interviews are like a fresh breeze compared to the stuffy, rote explanations and denials put out by the Church´s spokespersons. Your natural, eloquent, competent communications come across as truth and you as an authentic, friendly and honest person – what you are. None of the Church of Scientology´s spokespersons can measure up to you. What a fool DM is having you treated in such a vile way and driven you out with this (like so many other competent, great staff).

    If David Mascavige would be a man and a real religious leader as he claims to be, he would speak up publicly for his religion as other religious leaders do. He wouldn´t be cowardly in hiding under the guise of “being too busy” only showing up at staged propaganda events.

    Thank you for informing so eloquently and clearly what the real philosophy of Scientology is and what the Cult of Scientology is.

    Karola

  69. Today was published on http://www.asesor.xscientology.com for al latinamerican people and of course spanish spoken people how the Corp Scn is forcing parishioners to dissconect from Debbie Cook, I was recieving in the morning by packing the evidence with the communications, thanks to the brave who made the delivery.

  70. Mike!
    I know that sensation after being @ the sea org many years and doing exactly and following the exact line of command and the “command intention bs”, after me posting everything or almost everything I know and helping others to get ridoff their bs sleeping good is priceless, watching yourself at the mirror and feel pride again is something more valuable than gold itself, drop me a line time to time i would like some words with you @ rafagomezd@gmail.com
    http://www.asesor.xscientology.com

  71. Mike I am very curious – the interview is excellent, the difference between your PR work / communication now and when you were with the CoS is extraordinary. However, I always gave you credit for at least doing a professional job when you were doing interviews on behalf of the cult when you truly had a “mission impossible” – convincing the world DM wasn’t an abusive, corrupt cult leader and the mountain of critical evidence you were being questioned about was all false. In fact, I think your professionalism back then is in stark contrast to the bizarre and hilarious behavior of Tommy and a few other drones they have tried to put out there to defend themselves with. Now that we have some of the back story to what was going on with you during this time, the fact you were able to remain professional is even more extraordinary – the pressure must have been insane.

    I did wonder if you ever, or even allowed yourself, to fantasize about giving interviews to the media and actually speaking the truth – speaking your mind. Instead of being yanked out of the RPF/ SP hall, shoved into the spotlight and under threat being forced to defend David Miscavige’s and his reign of terror. Did you ever imagine just giving a truthful answer when they asked about his physical abuse or tantrums?

    I’m just so glad you made it to the day that rather than being forced to defend your tormentor in the media, you can actually speak the truth and tell the world what a nasty, vile, pos David Miscavige really is and how he behaves and abuses those around him. I’m sure in past years going into an interview was stressful and awful — now I hope its like a sweet release for you. You certainly come off as a happier, authentic person.

    I can’t help but think you’ve loved to watch as everyone else the cult has given the impossible task of defending Miscavige to the media, has floundered, failed and becoming the butt of jokes around the world.

  72. Mike Rinder…Perfect Interview…As usual !!!
    Thank you🙂

  73. My best to you Mike Rinder and my worst to David Miscavige.

  74. Great Mike,
    your answers are straight and honest. No hiding or hidden agenda to forward. Just the plain truth.
    Would love to have the same happening in a major paper here in Italy!
    Why not?
    Never say never……007

  75. Very helpful interview! Great differentiation between the current Church, headed by the suppressive dictator David Miscavige, and the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard. I make this distinction constantly with friends and relatives. Hope this interview makes its way in translation to France.

    I wonder, for the 100th time, how it was that LRH, who gave us SP/PTS tech, did not spot David Miscavige as an SP…..

    • David Miscavige represents an ultimate lesson to be learned.

      1952 and SOS (Science of Survival) spelled out the necessity to spot, prepare for and steel against this type of individual.

      And here we are today, many decades later, dealing with the same psychosis up front and in our faces.

      ‘They’, sociopaths, populate, control and direct the City of London, DC, Wall Street and other fraud-based criminally inclined pinnacles of power.

      As we know, that includes POB’s cult compound in southern California.

      It’s now in our hands, collectively and individually, to clean up the mess.

      Fortunately, we have the tools to do so. LRH laid them out simply and succinctly.

      It isn’t hard to confront. Is it?

    • Perhaps when LRH was around, he had enough ethics presence to keep SPs and dramatizations down and in line. By stats, the downward turn didn’t happen until 3 years after David Miscavige took over.

      • Yes, three years after he pulled the plug on Jeff Hawkins’ DMSMH campaign. The momentum carried for three more years and finally petered out. It was wrong whys for awhile (“KTL and LOC is the Why–date coincident”) until people were too hammered down to even come up with a sit, data trail and real conclusion. In 2000 when I sent around 10 years of downstats to Yager and ED Int, it was, “Dan is just stuck in the past.” Maybe but at least I am not stuck in the Hole!

  76. Frankly, I’m amazed that he made it as far as he did. He had many more SP’s than David Miscaivage after him – since 1950.

    We’re talking about the most able and powerful individual to ever have hit this prison planet psych ward with the road map out AND going up against every insane vested interest that had this entire population fully controlled. These folks (the main and controlling SP’s of this planet) are not going to relinquish their command that easily. LRH ruffled their feathers early on. I mean think about it – Look at what this man went thru to first spot the correct whys, research and develop technology thru all kinds of failure and setbacks, to come up with handlings and solutions that worked on everybody WHILE under this constant suppression! At the same time he’s trying to train and get the implanted prisoners of this planet to just duplicate him. It boggles my mind what he accomplished.

    David Miscavaige exists because WE didn’t slam in KSW #1 fast enough.

    • Li'll bit of stuff

      Knowbody, You,ve said it all,very succinctly.Thank you.

    • Firebreathing Frog

      David Miscavige was on the main comm line of LRH until LRH passed away.

      LRH ended his life in an RV because of a court case that could have been ended by Miscavige for less than a couple million dollars.

      This could have made LRH free and back home.

      David Miscavige did not want that, and crossed ordered the handling of this case by the attorneys and others. And as soon as LRH passed, Miscavige paid even more money to end this court case (when his head was on the line).

      If you consider the money Miscavige had at his disposal, (and all the money he spent since then on useless piece of MEST – like 170 millions dollars of illegal rip-off “donations” for the SuperPower building alone) David Miscavige suppressed LRH till his last breath and made sure LRH would end his life hiding in an RV.

      I never bought the PR line that LRH passed away because he finished his job and was all fine.

      We all know LRH body was not in very good shape when he passed and I don’t think he wanted to go like this.

      David Miscavige is a real SP. He suppressed LRH until his last moment, and he continues to do so with everyone who ever knew LRH, and with the entire subject of Scientology.

      David Miscavige, COB RTC, killed LRH.

      David Miscavige, COB RTC, is killing the Church of Scientology.

      But Scientology will not die with him. Scientology will survive because of Mike Rinder, Mark Rathbun, Steve, Jeff, Luis Garcia, Karen, the Hedley, Sinar, Michael Fairman, Dan Koon, etc.etc. all the real Scientologists, independant or not.

      Sorry if your name is not here, it would make a long list.

      You know who you are.

      • Frog,

        As part of your blogging routine, you should copy and paste these exact words each time someone asks: “Why didn’t LRH spot David Miscavige as an SP?”.

        By the time, a person realizes they’ve been dealing with a real SP, they are most likely watching their own funeral.

        Yes, there are the characteristics of an SP that are exact, per LRH.

        These characteristics would be extremely difficult to observe while ill-stricken, not to mention being stressed out with rumors flying of more lawsuits, rumors of mutiny in orgs and missions, etc, all from inside a tiny little RV with shades pulled as one’s communication lines, mail, visitors, etc. have been strategically stopped. This was obviously done and promoted “to protect LRH” with the only news being delivered sounding something like this: “The reporters, officials trying to serve you papers, etc. They know where you are now, it’s no use. But don’t worry “I got your back”.

  77. It’s funny. I signed a SO contract back in 1987, read and listened to the complete LRH library at that time, purif comp, signed the SO contract to be on the Freewinds, top of the org. Never made it. Then went on staff at a big mission. Saw the outpoints, blew from staff, caved in big time. Got recovered, went into SMI, lasted a week, blew from that. I figured I was declared, never happened, my thoughts were at the time, nobody can take away what I have learned from reading and listening to LRH. Got back on my feet, wanted that freedom, went back on staff to finish the contract. Then I said no more, and routed off staff with a sec check. Got married to a OT8, went back on staff to finish contract, and have no freeloader debt. It worked out. But back into the church, same outpoints, same shit. Wife back on OT7, when she did it and OT8 b/4 we got married in 1990’s. Shit, more money, more money and yet we are just surviving…………..and in debt……….you could say OT may ass, or you could say OT from making it go right although we are in debt…………it is a matter of viewpoint, or trap or no trap……….or game or no game——–or purpose or no purpose……….

    Funny, after reading that site SCN cult and digging into it……………major wins on reading the various articles and viewpoints———-very OT, cause over thought, matter, energy, space and time you have in you based on your education.

    Remember, auditors are the most valuable beings on the planet.

    I do thank you all. For setting the record straight.

    It’s funny, although I am not up the bridge, just mid grade 1. I am fortunate you might say in that I have not been corrupted,,,,,,,,,,,,,and , yes, the suppression and invalidation is coming off,,,,,,,,,,I look, and very powerful to have agreement on that, and thus ARC,,,,,,,,,as the truth is there.

    Funny, I guess to a certain degree I am applying the purpose of the SO, get ethics in, which is a personal thing, and I am now doing the contrac, you might sayt. Although not in the SO under DM.

  78. Mike, I always enjoy reading what you write and say. I reckon this article likely came about due to Marty’s stint in Germany raising the profile of the Indies and educating the media there that they can interact with you guys.

    This is real progress for the Indies, and for Germany. (It’s going to be harder and harder to paint the whole country as bigots.)

    Good job.

  79. Terrific interview, Mike. I sincerely hope that the Scientology of the future is run by people who think in act in that vein.

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