Taking Liberties with Religion

When Mike Rinder and I first read accounts of the absurd statement David Miscavige’s local San Antonio counsel George Spencer read to the court on Friday 10 February during Miscavige’s Santa Annaian surrender, we both independently noted tell-tale signs that it was authored by David Miscavige himself.

Now that the transcript from that day of proceedings is in, those suspicions are pretty much confirmed.

One of the indications that the words came right from the pen of Miscavige is the back handed slander and libel of L Ron Hubbard and Scientology it invokes.

More than two years ago I noted on this blog – perhaps in the comments section – that Miscavige’s defense to the statements of me, Amy, Tom, and Mike about the Hole at Miscavige’s Scientology Inc heaquarters was out and out blaming his crimes on L Ron Hubbard policy.  The following are the Miscavige orchastrated responses to the original Tampa Times Truth Rundown series testimony to Miscavige’s wholesale aggravated assault & battery, false imprisonment and the psychological torture on par with Abu Ghraib prison:

Church spokesmen confirm that managers are ordered into pools and assembled for group confessions. It’s part of the “ecclesiastical justice” system the church imposes on poor performers.

The Sea Org is a “crew of tough sons of bitches,” said church spokesman Tommy Davis, an 18-year veteran of the group.

“The Sea Org is not a democracy. The members of it agree with a man named L. Ron Hubbard. They abide by his policies . . . and we follow it to the T, to the letter, to the punctuation marks. And if you disagree with that and you don’t like it, you don’t belong. Then you leave.”

And please hear Tommy’s channeling of Miscavige here, Tommy Davis Audio, pull up “a disciplined religious order” segment.

Well, February 10 2012 demonstrated that Miscavige has not changed his spots, and has made no ethics change – nay, he’s getting worse.  Same old same, only more submerged and covert.  Please read the following segment from the 10 Feb David Miscavige Surrender Hearing:

We’re very concerned that the defendants have used the Court proceedings to entangle this Court in fundamental ecclesiastical matters that need to be avoided under the First Amendment. Over a century ago our United States Supreme Court made it clear that courts must abstain from examining matters which concern church discipline. In fact, just last month, in a unanimous decision, the Supreme Court reaffirmed the prohibition of judicial interference with religious liberties and the power to determine matters of discipline, faith, and internal organization in the Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School versus EEOC. That was January 12th of this year. And the proceedings of yesterday were in violation of that. 

That is how David Miscavige characterizes a day of Debbie Cook’s testimony in which she described false imprisonment, aggravated assault and battery, torture, and kidnapping all carried out at the direction of David Miscavige.

 “Fundamental ecclesiastical matters”, “Church discipline”, “discipline, faith, and internal organization”, and – sit down if you are not already sitting – “religious liberties.”   In order to invoke the law Miscavige’s counsel has cited, the church must claim the conduct Debbie has testified to is mandated by scriptures of Scientology (legally defined as the written and recorded-spoken words of L Ron Hubbard concerning Scientology).

Never mind that Miscavige, not Debbie Cook, dragged the dispute (and thus the conduct he says doesn’t belong in court) into court.  Never mind that his factual nexus between L Ron Hubbard scripture and his unconscionable conduct can’t be made. Never mind that even if he could, the supreme court case cited couldn’t possibly shield the activity Debbie has testified to.  Do mind, however, what this sociopath is doing.

David Miscavige is having to spend a bundle of parishioner donations to get a guy with the reputation of Spencer to tell a court with a straight face that TORTURE, KIDNAPPING, FALSE IMPRISONMENT, STALKING, AND AGGRAVATED ASSAULT AND BATTERY are STANDARD L RON HUBBARD SCIENTOLOGY RELIGIOUS PRACTICES and thus off limits for the court to even hear, let alone consider.

Miscavige wants to spend the religious recognition capital we struggled decades for to protect his heinous, serial felonies from scrutiny.  More fundamentally, Miscavige – once again – wants to heave L Ron Hubbard under the bus.

Line in the sand, indeed.

358 responses to “Taking Liberties with Religion

  1. “….and the beat goes on….”

    Andy
    “….time and pressure…”

    • Unlike other religious dogmas, Scientology SPECIFICALLY requires that fair and legal justice be applied to criminal activity.

      • I think David Miscavige may be abusing this famous LRH quote:

        “Somebody some day will say ‘this is illegal.’  By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organisations] say what is legal or not.”
        – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966, “LRH Relationship to Orgs”

        Naturally this means the He, David Miscavige, gets to decide what is fair, just and legal. Problem solved, see it’s an ecclesiastical matter.

        (The church of scientology teaching people how to spell ecclesiastical since 2008)

    • Had to share Pierre Ethier’s facebook status:

      THE CHURCH OF OZ…

      After all the scandals, bad PR and proofs of Human Rights Violations, who the Hell still remains in the Church?

      1- SCARECROWS: they are BRAINLESS, therefore are unable to see or judge and gleefully do everything they are told because “ONLY RTC KNOWS”

      2- TIN MENS: they have no heart, therefore breaking up family, destroying lives, terrorizing dissenters and fabricating outragous lies to protect their Leaders crime are all done withyout the slighest remorse or afterthought. Cruel people have no heart after all.

      3- LIONS: Like in the Wizard of Oz, they are cowards, who know that what the Church is doing is wrong, but are too afraid to act, often because they realize the Church would destroy their family and fsir game them, if they dared voice openly their disagreements.

      4- THE WIZARD: Behind it all, you have a fake, some who’s true power is based on illusion, terrorizing the weak and trying to impress a gullible audience through the use of smoke and mirrors. He shatters and reveal himself for who he truly is, once his lies are exposed

  2. An old saying comes to mind: you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
    I think when all is said & done, Spencer will wish he never took on this case. I could be wrong but he doesn’t seem to be from the same mold as say Elliot Abelson. But I guess we’ll find out soon enough. The question looms: will Spencer fire Miscavige as a client?

    • My view is : If Dm is attempting or does try to say Its all in LRH Policies
      even if he hasen’t already ordered it put in to the policies For Making his case. It will be a utter crime and I hope a rupture would occur on this /
      IF he trys to convince the lawyers/ The LRH Orginals should be on hand for viewing / and the evidence of changes of alter-is by DM shown .He is nothing but a evil degraderAt any one s cost.
      I hope the lawyer gets more inside first hand activities and evidence to add what is. And beside this perhaps himself having some sort of cognition some where along the line !! ( Ha Ha ) in regards to the state of mind and character he has as a client. You would wonder. and Who trusts who for honesty these days .Its hard to come by.

      • Too sadly, DM has inserted enough into LRH policies to fool even the most valiant Sea Org members.
        Another method he uses is to take something out of context. My own son who blew the Sea Org still justifies fighting among Sea Org members because of a blue on blue (I believe) statement by Ron that two Sea Org members settling things out with a fight is to be overlooked or something like that. This son also justifies NOT looking at the truth because he met DM once and DM was very nice to him. Geez, I met Hitler once and he was very nice to me–that doesn’t mean he wasn’t killing millions behind the curtains of the camps.

        • There is a huge difference between two guys getting frustrated and duking it out and The Hole and an ongoing culture of violence.

          I once witnessed a fistfight in the OT III classroom at AO when some idiot came in and tried to pull a guy out of the class without going through the Supervisor. The Sup was PO’d and it came to blows.

          This was nuts, and all concerned knew it was. However, it did not require a comm ev or B of I to sort this out – it flashed up, and then it went away.

          Sometimes the SO can be like Hockey.

        • Well, in that case, with all honesty, if push ever comes to shove between myself and miscavige, I’ll be willing to drop my auditor hat for a very brief spell and duke it out with the little shit. Although I sincerely doubt that his particular valence will come anywhere near someone who is fully willing to engage.

          • Really Les? Come on, that would be you in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. I can’t see you dropping your auditor hat that far.😀
            Maureen

  3. HONEST PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS, TOO (excerp)
    “But we are not police. Our look is the first step toward unlocking the doors-for they are all barred from within.
    Who would punish when he could salvage? Only a madman would break a wanted object he could repair- and we are not mad.
    The individual must not die in this machine age-rights or no rights. The criminal and madman must not triumph with their new-found tools of destruction.
    The least free person is the person who cannot reveal his own acts and who protests the revelation of the improper acts of others. On such people will be built a future political slavery where we all have numbers-and our guilt-unless we act.
    It is fascinating that blackmail and punishment are the keynotes of all dark operations. What would happen if these two commodities no longer existed?
    What would happen if all men were free enough to speak? Then and only then would you have freedom.
    On the day when we can fully trust each other, there will be peace on Earth.
    Don’t stand in the road of that freedom. Be free, yourself.”
    L. Ron Hubbard
    “HONEST PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS, TOO”, HCO PL 8 FEBRUARY 1960

    (underline mine)

    • Too bad, underline didn’t work. Never mind – take the whole quote😉

      Love,
      SKM

      • SKM

        Very nice. In the last 36 hours I have had the privilage to meet several who have been “declared”. All of whom laugh and express themselves wonderfully. They have nothing to hide, and are the counter-point of those within the church who accuse them.

        Here is an example of the web that can be weaved (hot from the FB Stasi):

        “Hello:
        Received the following message from Dr. William Pollack who is working diligently to let us know who is working to harm our group. Please remove her from your FB list and let your mutual friends know.. TKU ARC Jean Brasel

        “You have unfortunately befriended a non-SCNist in Facebook named, %%%%% %%%%% %%%%. She has aligned herself with declared SPs and has several on her friends list. She has derided SCNists publicly who have tried to educate her as to what’s up with the SPs.

        Unfortunately, being connected to her gives SPs access to your friend list and our comm lines.

        Please do not Block her before “Unfriend”ing her. This will make you invisible… ”

        I can tell you these f@#&s CAN NOT HAVE and do not want “peace on earth” for they trust no one, themselves included.

        Thanks for sharing this LRH with us.

        Andy
        “….time and pressure…”

        • Maybe you should form a FB declared scientologists group. It would be a good way to quantify yourselves; others might see that you’re not just a few malcontents.

        • You know what’s so funny about this? In their extreme paranoia about SPs, they actually have no clue how Facebook works. Here’s my favorite bits:

          “Unfortunately, being connected to her gives SPs access to your friend list and our comm lines.”

          Yeah, so access to your friend list is based upon YOUR privacy preferences. You can easily block access to anyone you want…down specific individuals.

          Then there’s this: “Please do not Block her before ‘Unfriend’ing her. This will make you invisible… ”

          This makes it seem as though someone would notice if you unfriend them — like you would get a message or something. Seriously, unless you are looking specifically for someone on your friend list, you wouldn’t even notice they’d unfriended you at all. Also, if the real concern is for the Scientologist in good standing to not be connected to a PTS or an SP, then it would actually make sense for them to block the person. That way the PTS couldn’t send another friend request because they wouldn’t be able to find the person even in a search. So, this is clearly a scare tactic to show people that if they are connected to SPs then they’ll lose all of their friends.

          It is an EPIC FAIL in the Scientology social media strategy, but more to the point, it is the petty bitter work of a small small (and I do mean teeny tiny) man who is losing his very thin grasp of control over his “flock.”

          • TRUE!

            So if you really are a “wannabeclear” then contact me. You’ll then be “gonnabeclear” to “iamaclear” 😉

        • Chicago Independents or those under the radar, now you know about William Pollack, Chiro, on, or maybe off, Solo NOTs, undoubtedly trolling FB, or who knows where else for that matter for OSA. Gee, what a surprise.

      • Well placed quote of LRH policy SKM. VERY applicable. In the spirit of cob David Miscavige rat incarnation that he is I learned of 8 new declared SPs in the last few weeks in just my area. . . most are people of tremendous altitude and history in the church. Indicators of the slippery slope the little varment is on. . . btw where did little Tommy go? maybe a missing persons bulletin ought to be issued on him too as it’s likely that his meter ran out with cob and like the management team before him, he’s outlived his limits he can stand of cob’s black Dianetics and black Scientology religion he created.

  4. BAM!

    Excellent post Marty

    • Yeah, excellent post Marty! Thank you for Keeping Scientology Working (KSW)…. religious liberties is NOT to violate the scriptures of Scientology. Someone has it very wrong. Thanks for drawing the line there!

    • “The following are the Miscavige orchastrated responses ….” “Orchastrated”. Too funny!

  5. For all the buckeroos and buckerettes still drinking from the wrong watering hole:

    Runnin’ with the Herd

    This world presents a fine array
    Of trails to take and places to stay
    Some of our lives are a bit of a joke
    Still others obtain the status of pope

    More often than not, you’ll be put to the test
    Of standing alone, not goin’ with the rest
    But you might decide that’s not your home
    And run with the herd, thinkin’ you’re never alone

    Runnin’with the herd…all that thunder and dust
    Not easy on the eyes and becomes a must
    To wipe off your face, not be thrown under the bus
    While you’re lookin’ for love but not feelin’ the trust.

  6. Perfect observation and evaluation Mike and Marty – that leaves DM only one option once on the stand = he’ll have to prove that what he is doing is ”Fundamental ecclesiastical matters”, “Church discipline”, “discipline, faith, and internal organization”, and “religious liberties.” ordained by Church policy = he’ll have to start writing his own policies now and fully take over as SOURCE.

    • Besides, he’ll have to get rid of most of LRH that still stands like WTH, Crimes, High Crimes, the 8 dynamics, definition of an overt, policy regarding illegal conduct, etc. Invoking Church scriptures is setting up a failed case before it starts and that is so Davey!

    • Maybe also an opportunity to drag the LRH ORIGINALS back out from the various vaults where David Miscavige has hidden them.
      Greta

  7. Problem solved. NOT!

  8. David Miscavige is a pathetic, criminal, son of a B—-.
    ‘nuf said.
    (altho I might have more to say later…)

  9. This is why I love that M&M and Cook stand up and tell the media that these crimes are being ordered from David Miscavige and not L. Ron Hubbard. Non-Scientology public don’t know the difference.

  10. Horrible! That stuff was not part of the Product 0 material I have studied and which was from LRH. Is this stuff now made clear to new SO members before they join? The word ethics is really misused by DM. Thanks a lot for this info.

    • As predicted by Ron, he has confused Ethics and Justice. Worse, he has confused Justice with torture and criminal activity. Prime example of the ethics tech and how an individual, David Miscaviage, will put ethics in on himself by leaving clues to his behavior so that another or others will step in and stop him. Because he can’t stop himself.

      He’s so far gone, it’s truly sad.

      • Hey Bozz,
        I was thinking about the exact same ref when I hit your post…..I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. He’s been leaving clues for ages though and has now officially invited someone to put in his ethics once and for all.
        Talking of clues, with reference to the Tommy Davis soundbites above, I don’t suppose it’s lost on anyone that when you compare his statements regarding the reported assault on Mike Rinder to the televised Anderson interview with the exes, that Mike Rinder’s ex, (sorry, forget her name) in dismissing the allegations of DM’s assaults on him, testified to never seeing a mark on his body in all their time together. (?)
        Classic case of not getting your stories straight.
        I believe LRH mentions something about lies and timetracks in a lecture somewhere….perhaps someone could help me out here with the exact reference if they know it?

  11. Marty

    David Miscavige is almost fully retreated now behind what he claims is”ecclesiastical priviledge”.

    I concur with your evaluation that he is more that just taking a passing shot at L. Ron Hubbard, because the way he is interpreting things, since HE is the HEAD OF THE CHURCH, then anything HE writes or says instantly becomes “religious scriptures” also.

    The law has to have the balls to set a precident, or to uphold earlier precedents, that allow them to pursue the law and the breaches thereof, wherever they are found. No organization or entity can be allowed to be “above the law”. That is a sure route to “total suppression” by any maniac that utters the word “church” or some such.

    It will be interesting if David Miscavige, by his actions, sets into play a re-address of the concept and use of the “First Amendment”. and/or the definitions of ”Fundamental ecclesiastical matters”, “Church discipline”, “discipline, faith, and internal organization, religious liberties, scriptures,” etc, and lay out the exact parameters of their use, and the exact protections afforded to each.

    Perhaps a lot more “history in the making” than any of us may have at first envisioned.

    David Miscavige WILL BE STOPPED, it is just a matter of how much more damage he will do to people of good will first.

    Eric S

    • Just an added note…

      By this current “strategy” by David Miscavige, he is putting, not just HIS church, but religious freedom itself at risk.

      The man (David Miscavige) will do ANYTHING to save his own skin… even if it means taking down freedom itself.

      He is one evil piece of work… and he is doing it in the name of “religion”…

      Oh my…

      Eric S

      • You’re right—I never looked at it like that but it’s always deeper than one thinks.
        “Religious freedom at risk”…he is, the slimy little toad. It plays right into the hands of exactly that.

      • That’s exactly right, Windwalker. “Religious liberty” is a sword that cuts both ways.

        If die-hard members of the “Church of Miscavology” are free to “worship” as they like, so are those of us who do not belong to the “Church”, without undue interference from Miscavige or others of his ilk.

        We have freedom to associate or to not associate with the CoS, and to remain free from abuse by them.

        If David Miscavige thinks he can sue Debbie or anyone else in “wog court”, as he would call it, then we equally have the right to sue him and his cronies in those same courts.

        Our system is designed to allow people to live and let live. That’s what the separation of church and state is all about, not what Miscavige is trying to claim.

      • It’s worse than destroying religious freedom.
        Miscavige is bringing distrust and cynicism into the heart and foundation of the very subject of spirituality and personal religious beliefs: He is restimulating our 4th Dynamic into their fear of betrayal after trust and pushing them towards religious intolerance and hatred.
        The destruction of religion as a subject and along with it, faith in the spritual nature of man will ultimately drive mankind back into MEST (a project demonstrably close to Miscavige’s ‘heart’) and ultimately bring about the demise of an entire species.
        This is the stuff of Hades and no less the fulfillment of the apocalyptic warnings of past scholars and philosphers.
        If ever there was a devil…

        • ‘philosophers’!
          Pre – morning coffee post!

        • Phil and Janet looking in from OSA UK and now equally guilty of these crimes perpetuated on humanity in LRH’s name by virtue of your silent assent:
          WTFU!!! – Sea Org Members?! I spit on your hypocrisy.
          (Indies – Sorry: Feeling a bit sudden all of a sudden)

        • Sam,
          You hit it. Your ‘knife’ is laser sharp!
          Greta

        • Sam

          Exactly. That is also my real concern.
          The potential outfall from this could help push the spiritual advancement of this planet back millennia. He hasn’t achieved his goal yet, and if there ever was a time to stand up for the spiritual future of this planet it is now, before he starts moving tanks into the square. The more entrenched we allow him to become, the harder it will be to rout him out. We have already allowed it to go much to far. We will prevail in any case if we are dilligent, but at a much higher cost.

          Eric S

        • damn Girl I like you when you are funny …but when you are serious you are down right scary!!!!
          couldn’t you say something about david miscavidge being the anti-christ?
          am ready to buy that!!…thinking about it thre was a movie …and I could be wrong but the son of the devil, the anti-christ WAS named david. did you see that one

  12. This is incredible stuff. It is time for the rank-and-file Scientologist to stand up and say that they have lost confidence in the ability of Int Management to lead this organization. Stop giving money and participating in Org activities until there is a complete change in management. Even if you don’t believe what Marty, Mike, Debbie and others are saying, then isn’t it a screaming outpoint that COB continues to appoint SPs to top leadership positions and leave them there for decades? Either way, Scientology has to change or it is going to die. It’s become a damn joke all over the world. We need a whole new board of directors, a real board with the power to post Int Execs and remove them, and with members who can also be appointed and removed (without being declared), and who are not all Sea Org members, maybe not even all Scientologists.

  13. Is there grounds for a suit (or counter-suit) that charges kidnapping, false imprisonment, assault, etc.? As a non-lawyer onlooker, it sure seems to me like Debbie (and others, for that matter) could present a strong case, the broad legal exemptions on religious practices notwithstanding. I hope something along those lines in in the works.

    • One would think that Ray Jeffrey would concur that filing a countersuit is standard operating proceedure in circumstances like this, making a move on the offense a part of the best defense.

  14. And to be dragging the Philosophy of L.Ron Hubbard behind him, through his own trail of shit….

    You would almost think that he is dead set on destroying himself totally this time around… He is so far down scale (the Expanded Tone Scale, by L. Ron Hubbard) that he seems to be trying to end his misery permanently.

    I am almost starting to wish him luck… almost….

    Eric S

  15. Yes, it will be interesting to see whether the cult’s main San Antonio lawyer, George H. Spencer, Jr., can actually stomach what he must do and say in his home town courthouse to represent Scientology Inc.

    If physical, sexual and mental abuse are privileges reserved as “fundamental ecclesiastical matters” under the U.S. and Texas Constitutions, I will eat my hat.

    JM

    • My thoughts exactly. I’d be really surprised if they continued this law suit one inch further…

      • It will certainly be interesting, I do not see DM being able to stop it now though. In his warped mind he cannot stop the lawsuit now as that would look like Debbie and Wayne “won”. DM would never allow that, so I think he will continue with the lawsuit. It matters not that it just might be the lawsuit that sinks him, as I do not see how he will be able to stay off the stand.

  16. So, DM would also claim that the scriptures are confidential and not to be allowed to be compared to the actual treatment of the former staff. However, the publicly publushed works of LRH show that it does not in any way allign with what DM claims to be standard proceedures, especially those crimes that he is being publicly confronted with. To anyone INFORMED with a full but simple understanding of this, this is nothing but an obvious checkmate. Now that the line is drawn, present the evidence and witnesses’ statements.

  17. Well observed, analyzed and written!
    And this clear cut differentiation between what is within the bounds of religious activity and what is downright crime, should be presented as vividly as possible to any future judge sitting on the case.
    Moreover, any attempts to blur the difference between the 2 is in itself an obvious cover up.

  18. Charles Stickley

    Abu Ghraib is Club Med compared to Osama Bin Miscaviges “Hole”
    .

  19. To think that just a few short weeks ago this whole “Sue Debbie” issue was purely a contract matter. I think Miscavige should stand up and be counted as the plaintiff as it is abundantly clear he was the one called to the carpet by Debbies e-mail. To fail to stand up for himself would prove what a coward he is as well as how guilty he is of alteration of Scientology and his civil crimes. We would love to see your shining face in court Dave. The judge and all following this would be the perfect audience for some grandiose “shermanspeak”.

  20. I just want to have my voice added to thank Marty, Mike ,Debby and all the others for helping to bring down the tyrant David Misguided, I mean David Miscavige .

    Today is my outing!!!! I used to blog under the name Gandiguy and Tone arm down. I have a story which I will tell soon but suffice it to say I am OT7 and Class 4, XDN Auditor and was the first 5 year contracted staff member under Yvonne Jentzch at CCLA and received a Kha Khan Certificate from her. I brought Tamera Wilcox to perform with the Committee improvisation group to CCLA which got her into Scientology and she got Jim and Tamera Meskaman into Scientology years later! I also got Chick Corea onto the radio stations at USC where I had been teaching back before his career had taken off and lastly I was introduced to Scientology by Karen Black which is a mystical story in itself. Oh, I also started Keyout Players Improvisational group at CCLA and co-ran it with Bobby Lyons. And oh yes I just illustrated the book “The Last Wolves of Mars” by Clark Carr head of Narcanon! Clark already let me know he’s disconnected from me but it’s going to be a hard disconnect on the book. Maybe the second printing will be without my illustrations. Disconnection is a bitch.
    I would love to hear from any old friends. (or new) ricroyce@yahoo.com
    Love,
    Richard Royce
    PS. in all my forty plus years of studying the scriptures of L Ron Hubbard I have NEVER encountered the fundamental ecclesiastical matters that David Miscavige claims Debby Cook testified about in court. I can only conclude that Mr. Miscavige made them up for his attorney to cover his ass.

    • Welcome Richard!!! Great to see you🙂

    • Thanks for stepping forward Richard great to hear from you.

      Tom Price

    • Welcome RR!

    • Wow Richard-would love to hear your whole story-it sounds like youhave had an interesting life.

    • Congratulations, Richard. You will enjoy you new found state of freedom. I am especially moved when someone like yourself with your depth of experience and contribution comes forward. Please count me as a new friend.

    • Hello Richard!!!!

    • Very well done, Richard!! A pleasure to make your acquaintance.

    • Welcome Richard. The richness of the history of Scientology and the legacy of L. Ron Hubbard lives in veteran Scientologists like yourself. Very well done for standing up and being counted among the numbers who have said “enough!” – and are doing something about it.

    • Welcome Richard! I too was staff at CCLA during the time period you mentioned although I didn’t really know you. I wasn’t on tech lines.

      Recently I was shown a fantastic picture of a young Robert F. Lyons, Milton Katsalas, Yvonne, Heber and a friend of mine. I’m going to get a copy and send it to Bobby. He should truly be ashamed of himself.

      I noticed he defriended Debbie Cook pretty early after her New Years letter.

      Yvonne loved Bobby. And always flowed tremendous power to the celebrities on lines at CC. She hated the GO (except Heber) and was utterly devoted to LRH. She didn’t let FOLO tell her what to do EVER and simply ignored their orders into CC.

      Old timers who had the great good fortune to be on staff with Yvonne – to watch her as she built the CC network, to learn how she cared for staff are valuable to this indy movement.

      And to see what dm has done to her memory. Yvonne who? Ask those at CC Int — they haven’t a clue.

      And YET — Celebrity Center ITSELF was to have been a shrine to Yvonne — not just some room that was put together after her death and promptly taken down.

      Those of us who started in scientology at CCLA on 8th (and Hollywood Hills mansion before) should never have any doubt as to the true intentions of dm.

      His intention is first and foremost to destroy anyone capable of duplicating, disseminating and distributing scientology to the world.

      He started I believe with Yvonne.

      She would have spotted him with her eyes closed.

      WH

      • Hi WH write to me at ricroyce@yahoo.com. But here’s a little public story about my time at CCLA on 8th St and Alvarado…

        Yes CCLA was pretty great. Yvonne operated on ARC and we loved her and would do anything for her. Her operating basis was “hello dear, what can I do to help you?”.

        Yvonne was always exchange 4 with all of us. I just wanted to hang around CC. She would say what would you like to do dear to help out and we would come up with ideas for example getting bodys in the shop with my art shows in the parking area. We were just having fun. We built a stage and had Poetry By Candle light on Fri evenings followed by a wild dancing party. Jeff Lewis would tell his stories to music, The Keyouts would perform sometimes with Heber as a guest performer! Then out of the clear blue Yvonne told me I had been awarded the HSDC course!

        I did have a miracle auditing Standard Dianetics though. It was my course auditing and my twin was Joan Breeding the wife of Don who developed the Mark 6 meter for LRH. She had a back and neck brace and was told by the doctors she would have to wear them forever. After 36 hours of Standard DN she took them off and never had to put them back on! That was the miracle I needed to graduate! In those days you couldn’t get off course without a miracle by medical standards!
        Love
        Richard

        • Thanks for bringing back some wonderful memories for me, Richard. I wasn’t really CC public during the years that Yvonne ran it, but I couldn’t stay out of the place (on 8th Street), and quickly got to know Yvonne.

          I was only a lowly newbie to Scientology, but she treated me like I was her own dear son. That woman had more love and admiration in her heart than any ten ‘normal’ people put together.

          I clearly recall one day, years later, when CC had been moved into the Manor Hotel. I was walking through the lobby one day, and Yvonne was over to one side, having a conference with a group of very important looking people. As I passed, I only briefly glanced her way. I was actually clear across the room – when all of a sudden, I saw her raise her hand, and ask her group to give her a moment.

          She did this while keeping her eye on me the whole time. Naturally, seeing this, I slowed my pace nearly to a stop. Before my body had even come to a full stop, Yvonne was nearly across the room to me. In about a half a second, she was standing right in front of me. She smiled, and asked me (by name) how I was doing. I sort of comm lagged, because I could see the quizzical looks on the faces of her group of VIPs. For about a nanosecond, I couldn’t compute how I could possibly be important enough for her to interrupt a meeting with a group of obviously important people.

          I suppose I got something out of my mouth, and she was all ears. Never once did she even seem to notice that there was anyone in the whole universe, except her and I, having our little chit-chat about how I was doing. It took mere nanoseconds more, for me to fully get into the comm cycle with her, because it dawned on me that she honestly did care about my welfare, more than she did the little meeting with the VIPs.

          Soon enough, I convinced her that all was well, and that I was doing just fine. She made me promise to come find her if I ever had a single problem while being on lines at her org (or anything else, for that matter). It was actually an astonishing display of real love and care on her part, and it affected me deeply. I never, ever forgot it.

        • Wow, they kind of kept how great CC was quiet at LA Foundation and ASHO Fdn.

        • Yr story and experience with Yuonne was lovely to read /Yes she was a women in a million, she was loved by many I had the happiest times knowing her andspent lots of time with her whilst she wass where I was
          St Hill, before going to the ship , she had time for many and she was appreciated by many and she was liked by LRH aswell.

        • Yeah, that’s the way Scientology used to be!

    • Hi Richard
      Very happy to have you here. Welcome
      Michael

    • Welcome Richard, and thanks for posting!

      Of course you haven’t seen or heard anything from LRH backing the viewpoint Miscavige is pushing – Miscavige’s “logic” says that if he wanted to resurrect Aztec-style human sacrifice within the “Church”, perhaps at major public Events, that would be OK and the secular authorities couldn’t interfere in such “ecclesiastical” activities.

      Perhaps in his world, the kind of tortures and humiliations Debbie was subjected to while she was being held in “the Hole” would be public events like the tests for “witches” that were done by the Spanish Inquisition or by some Puritans in early New England, were sometimes public events.

      Or placing “offenders” in stocks in the public town square.

      Miscavige is not advocating for a separation of church and state, he is advocating for his “church” being free of and above the laws of the land.

      • V, you articulate exactly what I have been wondering. How is it that DM’s house of horrors has managed to elude outside investigation?

        Are we really at a point where Anything Goes if the “authorities” designate you as a religion?

        At what point will those “authorities” get off their collective butts, get out there to the Int Base and DO SOMETHING?

        How much first-hand evidence do they need to conclude that the Laws of the Land have been and are being violated on a daily basis by a despot named David Miscavige?

        • I believe that DM is just the tip of the iceberg. The real problem is the involvement of other external entities in his meddling.

          The problem is: LRH gave the world Auditors. There could be nothing more abhorrent to certain groups than the existence of Auditors, Auditing. Thus, DM was given free reign to infiltrate, usurp, and prevent the continued creation of Auditors by others within the group. Then, when the Auditors were all canned or expelled or otherwise prevented from Auditing, the Auditing tech itself became the target – and he is there, doing his best to ensure that the Church of Scientology does not produce Auditors.

          The “authorities” you expect to do something about DM are in fact DMs’ masters in the first place. They won’t do anything, because it is their intention that DM ruins the Church of Scientology, and Scientology itself.

        • The traditions of “ecclesiastical freedom from secular authority” run deep in the Western world. Wars were fought 1,000 years ago in Europe over the issue. And in the main, it is a good principle. That’s why the government is largely “hands off” and reluctant to intervene in how religious groups run themselves internally.

          The principle is a bulwark against a secular totalitarianism running our lives 100% a la Orwell’s “1984”. Problems arise when the leadership of a religious group is corrupt. Then the group members need to wake up to it and take action to correct matters.

          Completely taking away all the sovereignty(self-determinism) of 3rd dynamics is no solution.

      • Thank you Valkov

    • Thank you RR…. more waves coming! Hehe… we stand tall, taller than ever before day by day. I would love to see your illustrations!

    • Hello!
      It’s a beautiful day to come out and play.
      xxx

    • Hi Richard!

    • Welcome Richard and looking forward to your story!!! I have enjoyed reading your posts.

    • Welcome Richard and thank you for speaking up and out.

    • Thanks for taking the plunge Richard. I think you will enjoy it.
      The Indie party is coming up in July. It would be great if you could come and meet all your new friends.

      • Thank you Tony! Kris and I have decided to go. We have planned to make a trip out east sometime this summer and will tie in the Indie party with it. I need to know the dates so we can plan our trip. ricroyce@yahoo.com

    • Welcome HERE, Richard!
      Sounds like you have quite some stories to tell. Looking forward to hearing more.
      Greta

    • Richard!! So great to see you here. I’ve known you since those ol great CC days on 8th Street. Sherry Many Katz (aka Serah Mitchell). I remember you well. I used to Sup the H.A.S. course. Gelda Mithoff was the D/T, Ray Mithoff the Qual Sec, Yvonne at the helm of course and the rest of the crew… Such memories. I have an old photo of the front of CCLA which I’ll send you. Are you in Portland, OR now? Looks like it from your FB page. That’s where I and tons of other exes live. AND I play bass in a classic rock band. Jus’ sayin’ cause I see you’re playing too…Let’s catch up! Sherry

    • You’re out of the closet. “Tom Cruise come out of the closet”. HA!

    • Hello Richard. I’ve always loved your posts and it looks like we can look forward to some really special ones in the future…can’t wait!

    • Richard, Great to see your name here. I worked for you for a time in your printmaking studio way back when and learned a lot from you. Your work was fantastic back then and I am wondering whether you have a website where the world can see more. Congratulations on adding your name to the waves against DM’s sandcastle.

    • Great to have Gandhi Guy identified.
      Good to *SEE* you dear

    • Richard,

      I was down the street and around the corner from you at AOLA at 9th and Westlake. I used to love to go to CC when I had an excuse. I look forward to meeting you!

  21. MIscavige is painting himself into a corner with arsenic paint. He keeps backing up, saying “you can’t touch me, because I am a religious leader and the First Amendment says you can’t criticize me for anything I do if I call it my religious practice.”

    There are several infamous money-mad egomaniacs who have preceded him and sought to hide behind the cloak of the cloth. Jim and Tammy Baker come readily to mind. Jimmy Swaggart. Warren Jeffs. There are many, and each was erroneously convinced they were above the law. And while a lot of money can stave off justice, you cannot buy karma (or the overt-motivator sequence, whichever terminology you prefer).

    The world has seen the last public appearance of David Miscavige. He will never again go anywhere without being surrounded by a phalanx of “security” personnel to keep away anyone that might ask him an embarrassing question. He will not appear in court — he will flee the country before that happens. He will absolutely not make any media appearance (and it seems that he has nobody left who he trusts to do so either, so the “church” is reduced to sending increasingly bizarre written statements to the media) for fear of the questions he might be asked. He will appear only in fully controlled, scripted video “events” to feed his lies and hype to the ever diminishing cadre of public and staff who still think he is Scientology’s savior.

    It sucks to be Miscavige. Through his undying arrogance and vanity he has truly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. After the IRS granted exempt status to the church he had the support of every Scientologist and the ability to steer the church in a new, positive direction. Instead, he devoted his efforts to “consolidating his power” and “eliminating enemies”. And look where he is today. Scared of every shadow that crosses his path, afraid of being exposed and increasingly out of touch with reality.

    • At this point, even Lou could not pinch him hard enough on the butt to bring him back to reality.

    • I suppose that one thing we can be thankful for is the fact the he has removed himself from the gene pool. At least there isn’t a “DM Jr” to assert “right of succession”.

    • That is a five-star comment Mike!

    • Mike,
      You just landed a devasting blow.
      I applaud it.

    • Ya, well the thing is that our First amendment Rights have been violated to the nines while in the Sea Org and out of the Sea Org. I can’t communicate about the church without getting slammed for it. I can talk about anything I want, except the C of S and then the poop hits the fan. How is that not violating MY rights?

      ML Tom

    • Marty and Mike.
      Excellent points, clear as a bell.
      It has become more visible of late that the Miscavology Religion is deluged with Contracts.
      In the last decade or so, Contracts on video camera as EVIDENCE.
      Legal evidence.
      This is baffling to outside eyes.
      Contracts on arrival into the SO, contracts into arrival of the RPF, contracts on departure and route out…are these Legal contracts? or Religious Contracts ?
      The “church” of Miscavology with the Legal department of OSA and the Army of lawyers hired are constantly drafting up all kinds of contracts.
      On the one hand, the Sea Org contract is explained as a symbolic SPIRITUAL commitment, YET the “Church” over usage of LEGAL CONTRACTS clearly shows this “Church” operating as a business. Do the law courts adjudicate business contracts ? “Religious” contracts ?
      How can business law and religious law merge into a blob?
      It is a business contract when Debbie is asked to uphold a business contract, but it is “ecclesiastical violations” ?
      How ecclesiastical is a GAG order or NON disclosure bond?
      How much longer can a THUGGERY Abusive entity get away with 1st amendment protection as (non-secular) and at the same time operate as pure business: Statistics, money grabbing, stock piling “reserves” huge $$$$ rewards for raking in IAS megabucks, trashing field practices as “competition” for market share greed, etc etc.
      How can the same entity be non-secular (religion) and at the same time a secular entity (business), screaming for 1st amendment rights while flagrantly destroying the rights of those in lockdown, in the RPF, imprisoned with Sea Org walls. Now its “Religious” because the Religion says to do so, so it has constitutional protection !
      What a load of codswallop !
      You and I see it.
      Why don’t Judges and Law Courts see it ?
      Do they too bogged down in the smoke and mirrors and the maize of complexity with the Miscavology LIES, cover ups, deliberate confusions, and disguises? And then toss it all off as “1st amendment” ?

      Debbie Cook described a 12-hour ordeal at the California base where she was made to stand in a trash can while fellow executives poured water over her, screamed at her and said she was a lesbian.

      She said she saw Miscavige attack church executive Marc Yager, punching him in the face and wrestling him to the ground. She also recounted how church executive Mark Ginge Nelson was punished for objecting to violence he saw in “The Hole.”

      Cook said she saw Nelson taken to another room, where he was beaten by a Miscavige assistant and two other men for two hours. She said Nelson also was made to lick a bathroom floor for at least 30 minutes.

      Cook said Miscavige once ordered his secretary to slap her, and she fell over into some chairs. She said he also ordered his communication officer to break her finger. The officer bent it back, she said, but did not break it.

      Not even a donkey would agree above 4 paragraphs are RELIGIOUS !

    • Not just karma Mike but Miscavige’s mental state which in buddhist psychological terms (called the abhidarma – that part of buddhist thought that deals with psychology/metaphysics) places him squarely in the “god realm”

      A place of great bliss, tremendous power, exceptionally long life … and when a god’s life time (which can be figuratively 1000’s of years but they are not immortal) starts coming to a close — people around the god can smell his imminent death and start to abandon him in droves. He becomes a pariah and suffers far greater than those who were never in the god realm.

      And his death, either in reality or figuratively from the god realm, will throw him violently into the hells realm because of his karma.

      Yes — it sucks more than any of us can imagine to be Miscavige. We are, after all, social beings. He ceased being a social being millenium ago. He is now nose-diving to hell.

      WH

    • Mike, Thanks for being the ideal Minister and officiating with Marty at this spiritual funeral of David Miscavige.

    • And if somehow this were to hold up in court, imagine all the people who now find out that this “Church” has these actions of abuse as standard practices, fully justified by “religious liberties” and “Church discipline”…who in their right mind would join up or stay a part of that?!

      • The joining up is part of the problem with all religions.

        Simon Blackburn in his study of Plato’s Republic said that religions were fossilized philosophies.

        For L Ron Hubbard scientology was a philosophy because it evolved as he learned. Others followed it and it became a religion, especially once he died.

        If you aspire to follow in Hubbard’s footsteps then it’s your own personal journey. Actually follow is the wrong word because the whole point is not to follow but to forge your own path.

        Sure directions are great but always make your own way, never blindly follow directions. Why do you think Hubbard developed self auditing?

        Sure you can share you experiences but don’t assume they’re a mandate to direct others because they work for you. Each journey is going to be different.

        Use scientology and indeed any other belief system as an inspiration or guide but don’t fall in to the trap of joining a group that proscribes set beliefs and practises.

        Never accept there is “one true way”. Life would be incredibly dull if it were just a matter of following the instructions.

        • Yes, Dean. Thank you for that. I have always felt that what I did here was my, personal journey and creation … and a way for me to help others with theirs. We are each unique beings, with our own viewpoint, and no one will ever have the exact, same viewpoint as me, because they are not me…and so it goes with others. It makes sense that each journey would be different too. Thank goodness for me that I have never totally, blindly follow direction…too bad for David Miscavige. Truth seekers always prevail.

          • Becoming a follower is an easy trap to fall in to and many otherwise intelligent and good people do it. It’s easy because it lifts the burden of forging your own path and satisfies a need for direction and structure in life that everyone has.

            Once you’re a follower you can be directed to do all manner of terrible things in the sincere belief it is right or “for the greater good”. I could of course use the well worn examples of Hitler mobilizing a nation to war and compelling others to commit genocide for “the greater good” but there are less obvious examples.

            Take for instance the registrar who is not only driven by targets to obtain promises of money but a real desire to do the right thing for the greater good. This can result in them pressuring people in to taking on more financial debt than they can really bare; it helps that they have been trained with cookie cutter methods on how to do this. Not only that but the registrars unwittingly use the same strings of doing the right thing to encourage the donations of money.

            For what it’s worth the most primitive philosophical directions in life are:

            “Do unto others as you would wish to be done by”

            “Do the best that you can.”

            “Accept that your best is good enough.”

            “Learn from your mistakes and apply the lessons.”

            “Accept that you will get in wrong.”

            Everything else, IMHO, is window dressing which should be added and changed by you as you travel through life.

            • I should point out that Miscavige has fallen in to quite a different trap, the one that captures the messiahs. He is drunk on the adulation of his followers and has become addicted to his power to direct them.

              Each abuse is an exercise of that power and provides a satisfaction to him and with no one to stop him he’ll keep getting worse.

              He’ll have other demons too, mainly associated with the fear of loosing that power; a lot of truth in that saying the higher they are the harder they fall.

              Judging from the statements he must have paid his lawyers handsomely to say he also listens to no one. Why should he, what he says has always become reality and if it hasn’t there was always someone else to blame.

            • Good stuff, Dean! Thank you.

        • Quite right, Dean.
          “Life would be incredibly dull if it were just a matter of following the instructions.”
          It wouldn’t be even a life, it would be a slavery.

          Like any SP, miscavige wants to humiliate you; and if that fails, to crush you with force. When that fails, he’ll run like the dog that he is, abandoning the instructions he’s been so keen to enforce on others. Never in a million years will miscavige accept any Scientology ethics due process, or judgement by an ‘ecclesiastical’ court, let alone ‘suffer on up the conditions.’ He would seek to use the law, yet not be subject to it.
          Instructions which Ron devised to free people would be the stuff of torture to him; whereas to a social personality, instructions would be easily recogised as a theraputic liberation from the need for instruction. You’d at last, be able to stand on your own two feet – and that is absolutely the last thing miscavige wants!

          Miscavige’s obsession with micro-management betrays his profound distrust of other beings – distrust being endemic throughout the entire organisation as a result. Everyone is ethics bait. The sec checks, contracts, waivers, back-firing KR’s, long ethics cycles, RPF as punishment, suddenness of management, perpetual changing of group goals and purposes and stats, persistent tech and policy variations, hands constantly at the pumps but never winning for self or group.

          Buddha’s Middle Path is the way you’d go to enlightement without the need for instruction. Need of instruction would not be the Middle Path. Likewise, ethics exists only to get tech in. Tech exists only because we’ve strayed from the Middle Path, fallen from grace, forgotten that it’s a game, or whatever trip we might be on.

          And likewise, Anarchy would be the ideal form of government, but only for an instruction-free population, that is to say, when we no longer need to be ‘told’ because we already ‘know.’ We’d happily do as we’re done by. You’d be in my dream and I’d be in yours.

          Ah, I long for the day.

        • Dean,
          You are right on the money! Consciousness is a very large field. The Bridge is an excellent way to get to the starting gate. Then the real exploration starts. What is the point of OT. It’s just the ability to operate as yourself. So what do you do now? How do you continue to evolve. These are important questions. The Bridge was good for me. I don’t personally know the other paths so I can’t say this is the only one . I just know it worked for me. The same issues are there. No matter how you get to the starting gate, what do you do from that point on? A book that helped me to come to grips with some of this is “My Big Toe” By Thomas Campbell. Difficult to understand but easier the second time through.

    • “Through his undying arrogance and vanity he has truly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.” ~Mike Rinder

      Classic.

    • Mike,
      Your post has reminded me of the days which you well remember, when the Old Man decided to go into hiding and off the front lines when the IRS and the FBI were seeking him to get him to face court. I remember because I was there at Flag.

      Your prediction that David Miscavige will never appear before any court, i.e. he will run and hide, makes me wonder if he, in his deluded state will try to follow what LRH did and believe he will be safe.

      The big difference is that when LRH went off the lines to protect himself, he left TRUE and very well trained Sea Org members in charge of Scientology International to see that Scn kept being delivered standardly and to keep Orgs expanding. That is, until David Miscavige usurped control of the organization.

      In the case of Miscavige, he can run and go into hiding, but all he is going to leave behind is ruins and a whole lot of cheated, betrayed people.

      The burning question is: what will happen to the IAS money and assets which he obtained from unsuspecting parishoners?

      Alex

      • Alex,

        Thanks.

        Don’t be surprised if Miscavige tries another one of his sleight of hand tricks and announces to the sheeple that “The distractions of the world are too great, and, just like LRH, I have to go off and finish compiling the materials. I have not been able to complete OT IX and X, so I am going to go off the lines and complete the work that LRH started” as he slinks off to Paraguay (more likely he will start out at the Freewinds). He will paint himself as a martyr AND the chosen one who is doing what LRH wanted because nobody else has done it. He will try to maintain control of his empire from afar, but it won’t work (for many reasons).

        Watch him try to pull this one off, but his shortsightedness has left him with NOBODY in management. He might try to resurrect Yager and Guillaume and some others, but they are broken, demoralized, scared of making a decision and incapable of running anything.

        Make no mistake Alex, the train has left the station. THere is no turning back for Miscavige. He is a full-scale, track-twisting, crashing and burning, screeching trainwreck just waiting to happen. His hand is firmly on the accelerator, building speed, and as it increases with his every move and utterance, so too does the magnitude of the wreck that is going to end it all.

      • Plus who owns the buidlings (“Idle Orgs”) ? The Orgs do not, right?

    • Spot on comment! “You cannot buy karma”… that says it all. (And OSA, please take note)

  22. Anyone who toiled and sweat over the years, the decades, to create the recognition of Scientology as a religion, and protections that flow therefrom, surely shudders in dismay and disgust at what Miscavige is doing. He is the true heretic of Scientology.

  23. Barry Van Sickle

    The court explained the scope of its decsion as follows:
    ” The case before us is an employment discrimination suit brought on behalf of a minister, challenging he church’s decision to fire her. Today we hold only that the mimnister exception bars such a suit. We express no view on whether the exception bars other types of suits, including actions by employees alleging breach of contract or tortious conduct by their religious employers. There will be time enough to address the applicabilty of the exception to other circumstances if and when they arise.” ( page 21 of slip opinion).

    Corporate Scientology’s suggestion that the case provides a broad privilege for tortious and illegal conduct is inconsitent with the court’s opinion.

    • Exactly.

      So even if Miscavige is merely applying the “chain locker” punishment of the Apollo days, under LRH, condoned minimally by LRH, and is somehow Miscavige’s lawyers are fed this as evidence that Miscavige’s condoning the “Hole” is a much milder version of a punishment that Hubbard condoned immediately around where LRH was working; still in no way is Miscavige’s religious doctrine (LRH’s private despatch or condoned assent) the religious doctrine defense doesn’t trump what you just quoted.

      (LRH unfortunately did have his bad days and condoned and ordered some things which were NOT The Way to Happiness for those that received the punishments he ordered —– overboardings, confinement to the chain locker, pushing a peanut around the wooden deck of the Apollo with one’s nose, the “Kali worship” punishment/lesson. Wiser leadership should just know NOT to follow any of those bad LRH examples.)

      Thankyou for noticing and commenting here!

      • “The Way to Happiness”: Simple, valid, and publicly distributed. Includes “FUNDAMENTAL ecclesiastical matters” and expected “church DISCIPLINE” by L. Ron Hubbard.

      • I agree Chuck. Another difference is that those acts by Hubbard were in the context of his role of the Captain of a ship, not under the jurisdiction of the laws of any particular country.

        Not to excuse anything he did, but the context is that a ship is not a democracy, and the Captain’s word is traditionally, law. There is no particular “Constitution” guaranteeing very many “rights” of those on the ship, although I would guess there are some even in an authoritarian militaristic tradition.

        What is done by a Captain on his ship, is not necessarily what would be condoned on land, in a civil society.

        • Good point, Valkov. Thamks for mentioning it — I would not have thought of that.

        • Valkov, what you wrote is interesting. It is true that captains were not bound by laws of the land and that is was not a democracy. But, we’re talking of centuries ago. The practices of over-boarding people(sometimes blind-folded and hands/feet bound), children confined to a chain locker for eating a telex, pushing a peanut on a wooden deck with a person’s nose until it was bloodied were all ordered and condoned by Hubbard himself. There are many ex-sea org members that witnessed this. These incidents didn’t happen 300 years ago, but merely 40 years ago. These were traumatic incidents that these people went through, with pain and unconsciousness. Hubbard was the founder of what he called a religious philosophy. Is this the kind of inhumane behavior that we should expect from a founder of a religion that teaches that man is basically good?

          I know that many Independants and Freezoners continue to practice Scientology and find that it helps them. I fully support your freedom to practice your beliefs. I’m not a Scientologist myself but, read all the basic books and have a good understanding of it. I’ve also read the unauthorized biographies of Hubbard and read many accounts that most would find shocking. The point I’m making here is that Hubbard cannot be given a free pass by saying that since he was Captain of the Apollo, that it was OK for him to order those cruel and unusual punishments.

          Lastly, I want to say that I fully support what Marty, Mike, Debbie Cook and all the Indies are doing here to expose and to bring to justice corporate Scientology and it’s megalomaniac leader, David Miscavige. What is going on in ‘The Hole’ is a crime against humanity and must be stopped.

          • You give an awful lot of weight to second or third hand hearsay deluded by half a century of motivating.

            • I’m sure that there are people who contribute to this board who were on the Apollo and witnessed Hubbard give those orders. Honesty is the best motivation.

              • Evan,

                That horse is already dead, no sense in beating it further. We know that Ron screwed up every now and then just like everyone else. We know that he took huge liberties with the truth about his war record. We know he was mighty pissed off the day he wrote KSW 1. We know about chainlockers and peanuts and other crazy stuff. We’ve moved on from that.

                Ron sqaid himself many times he wasn’t interested in being the sweetness and light saviour of all mankind. The Mother Theresa personality type was totally not his thing at all, he was a lot more like Steve Jobs actually. And just as polarizing. He was not interested in the whole world thinking he was wonderful, he was only interested in getting the job done and getting results, and if the result happened right about now that would be even better. The world is full of people like that, heck I’m one of them myself. But no-one has even described me as psychopathic or even narcissistic. Sometimes (OK, I’ll be honest – often) in the haste to get stuff done we screw up. More often than not we screw up badly, real badly. And we move on and so does everyone around us.

                If you are going to evaluate the worth of a man, you have to evaluate the whole man, and all of his works and what he did; you can’t cherry pick just the good bits or just the bad bits. When you do evaluate the whole man and all his works, it doesn’t take much inspection to see that what Ron did and what the current church does are as different as different can be.

                One of the hallmarks of intelligence is the ability to see differences, similarities and identities. The times when Ron screwed up are the bits you should reject as crazy bits, just like he did.

                Social personalities can do this. Miscavige cannot do this, he is locked in a mental trap he created for himself where he can’t even afford the small luxury of changing his mind. That’s just the way psychopaths are wired. In closing, think about this: if there never was a chainlocker episode or anything even similar, Miscavige would still have found something to use as justification for what he does no matter how much he had to twist it around. It could be as simple as how to lick lollipops, that too is just how psychopaths are wired.

                I’m not trying to get you to change you mind, just presenting an alternative, more middle-of-the-road viewpoint for your consideration. Let me know what you think.

                Alan

      • Hopefully reformed Scientology and its followers will learn from both LRH and DM, in terms of their shortcomings and imperfect judgements, that led to some very bad treatments of some very good people.
        I hope the real justice will be served soon.
        Thank you Debbie and everyone involved.
        Thank you, Chuck Beatty.

        P.S. I am a former dedicated Cof$ Scientologist and a former Independent Scientologist, I hope it doesn’t make me a double SP.
        Because I still like PEOPLE in Cof$ and in the Indie field.
        I was helped and I helped much too. And that’s what matters,
        versus the abuses.

        Best wishes to all, Andrew Organ

      • I think Chuck makes important points here. OF COURSE, Miscavige is going to claim that he is just carrying out the “official” discipline and rites of the religion, Scientology. But as his treatment of individuals has become increasingly VERY brutal over the years, he cannot possibly continue with this case (or others like it) as testimony will reveal that he and his regime have crossed the “religious line” into breaking some very serious common laws completely recognized by the society (such as kidnapping, extortion, torture, etc). I do not think LRH would EVER have condoned Miscavige’s methods. I do think though that Ron laid the groundwork for this abuse by some of his policies and procedures. He did set up the original RPF, the overboarding, chain locker punishment, etc (and again, of course, he did not promote abuses to the Miscavige level or even close to them). While Ron did certainly explain what the ep of ethics actions are, his cautions against abuses were infrequent (in policy) and he never SUFFICIENTLY acknowledged the chances for abuse once he was gone (or even in an org where he was not physically present). Just one example; read over the definition of a suppressive act and ask “who decides when an individual has done something calculated to hinder or stop the progress of Scientology?” Though some acts in this regard are certainly spelled out by Ron, we see now that someone like Miscavige can easily decide that anyone who “aids Marty” or “speaks out in the press or even in court” is guilty of a suppressive act. As written by LRH, this definition of a suppressive act is very “elastic”, which is to say, that actions can be stretched and molded to be made to fit the defintiion or visa versa (depending on whom Miscavige “wants to get.”) And even in the olden days, we were at the effect of this depending on how LRH himself felt. One example – I remember when word came from Ron in a policy letter (1973 or so) that blowing staff was now a supppressive act. Before that it was certainly “bad”, but now we were told that if we blew, we would be declared a “suppressive person.” I try not to abuse my comm line here by repeating myself too often, but I’m posting this today on this subject because I think once again, this whole matter of Debbie/Davey is a good example of what happens when religion/church assumes the hat of telling folks how many sins they can committ and what group punishments need to be meeted out (no matter how brutal – after all, Leviticus in the Old Testament states that death is the penalty for cursing one’s parents). “Big” religion (which I define as one which is attempting not only to enlighten people but to control their every action) I have concluded is to be avoided like the plague if one wants to live in any way a free and independant life. I support Independant Scientology as the way to continue to make LRH’s wisdom and technology available in the future and I also support the exposing of the abuses of the Church of Scientology so that these abuses will not be repeated in the future.

        • @Joe Pendleton
          I do not think LRH would EVER have condoned Miscavige’s methods. I do think though that Ron laid the groundwork for this abuse by some of his policies and procedures.
          NEVER EVER Ron would have “feelings” as Miscavige does for such a long period of time.
          I post 2 interesting Quotes from LRH from 2 different Pol Ltrs.

          “CRIMINALITY
          Unless we want to go on living in a far nowhere, some of the facts of scenes have to be confronted.
          An inability to confront evil leads people into disregarding it or discounting it or not seeing it at all.
          Reversely, there can be a type of person who, like an old-time preacher, sees nothing but evil in everything and, possibly looking into his own heart for a model, believes all men are evil.
          Man, however, is basically good. When going on some evil course, he attempts to restrain himself and caves himself in.

          “Criminal actions proceed from such people unless checked by more duress from without not to do an evil act than they themselves have pressure from within to do it.
          Criminality IS In most instances restrained by just such an imbalance of pressures.
          If you have no ethics presence in an org, then criminality shows its head.

          “Such people lie rather than be made to confront. They false report—they even use “PR,” which means public relations, to cover up—and in our slang talk “PR” means putting up a lot of false reports to serve as a smoke screen for idleness or bad actions.

          “EXCHANGE
          The unhatted, unproducing staff member, who is not really a criminal or psychotic, can be made to go criminal.
          This joins him to the criminal ranks.
          The ethics system also applies to him.
          However, there is something an Esto can do about it that is truly Esto tech. This lies in the field of EXCHANGE.
          If you recall your Product Clearing, you will see that exchange is something for something.
          Criminal exchange is nothing from the criminal for something from another.
          Whether theft or threat or fraud is used, the criminal think is to get something without putting out anything. That is obvious.
          A staff member can be coaxed into this kind of thinking by: PERMITTING HIM TO RECEIVE WITHOUT HIS CONTRIBUTING.

          – L. RON HUBBARD, HCO PL 4 APRIL 1972 (excerpts)

          ETHICS PRESENCE (excerpts)
          “The reason an executive can get compliance is because he has ethics presence. If you haven’t got it, you won’t.

          “There are only a few with a good forward look and who are relatively unaberrated.
          Men will keep the accounts straight only because you can muster bayonets to enforce that they do.
          Ethics presence is an X quality made up partly of symbology, partly of force, some “now we’re supposed to’s” and endurance.
          One of the reasons the press now print what we say is that we have endured the biggest shellackings anybody could muster up. We’ve gained ethics presence publicly by it.
          Endurance asserts the truth of unkillability. We’re still here, can’t be unmocked. This drives the SP wild.

          “As an executive you get compliance because you have ethics presence and persistence and can get mad.
          The way you CONTINUE to have ethics presence is to be maximally right in your actions, decisions and dictates. Because if you’re wrong the other fellow gets wrapped around a pole for complying. And the pain of that starts to outweigh your own ethics presence.
          So, when you issue orders you are using force and power. You can, however, get in such a frame of mind you cease to use the softer arts as well. Against noncompliance you add ferocity with the aim of continuing your comm line.
          Wrath IS effective but used in moderation and only in moments of urgency.
          Man has been invalidated to such an extent that he starts to do HIMSELF in—that’s the secret of aberration. He denies himself, then mocks up pictures to do himself in with.

          If you continue to invalidate and chop people, they will start to do themselves in even harder—so if you continue to use heavy ethics on someone, you play right into the hands of his bank.

          “Without in any way softening your approach, you should know that real force is dependent upon ARC, and the major threat is the interruption thereof.”

          – L. RON HUBBARD, HCO PL 4 OCTOBER 1968 (excerpts, emphasis mine)

          “Without in any way softening your approach, you should know that real force is dependent upon ARC, and the major threat is the interruption thereof.” – LRH

          David Miscavige is NOT a Scientologist. He is not using Scientology. He is a PR guy. Smoke and mirrors. An illusionist. And he will fail.
          The Factors tells us about it how he will lose. He looses identities (viewpoints) who go trapped into his illusionary microcosmos.
          The matrix makes pufff, soon.
          The battery is low. Around the world.
          Even OSA becomes tired to handle all the “Debbie Cook entheha”.
          That’s above their competency level.

          “He could have used Scientology.”
          LRH, What is Greatness

          • “David Miscavige is NOT a Scientologist” sounds like a great domain for a web site:

            DavidMiscavigeisNOTaScientologist.com

    • Barry Van Sickle,

      You are correct. I Googled some stuff and noticed this one which may be of specific interest to some:

      Elvig v. Calvin Presbyterian Church, 2004

      [Excerpt:] “Elvig’s sexual harassment claim can succeed if she proves that she suffered a hostile work environment and if the Defendants do not prove that Elvig unreasonably failed to take advantage of available measures to prevent and correct that hostile environment. Elvig’s retaliation claim can succeed if she proves that she suffered retaliatory harassment-here, in the form of verbal abuse and intimidation-because of her complaints to the Church and the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (“EEOC”). Should the Church be found liable on either of these claims, Elvig may recover damages for consequent emotional distress and reputational harm.”

      Carcha.

  24. Dianetics Logic #14: “Factors introduced into a problem or solution which do not derive from natural law but only from authoritarian command aberrate that problem or solution.” –LRH

    • Scott, this is a logic which has a great depth of enlightenment available in its study and application. It’s another example of what I call “1950s LRH” where Ron very often stressed the natural right of a being to think independantly free of authoritarianism.

  25. First, I must give my belated, huge THANK YOU to Debbie and Wayne for stepping up. (I’ve been so busy, not much time to comment lately.) I can only say that Debbie’s stepping up with the New Year’s email and appalling, corroborative testimony under oath have helped open minds and eyes. There have been specific revelations in my corner of the world, and I would bet many more are now quietly daring to look.

    Marty, these words of yours mean much to me: “Miscavige wants to spend the religious recognition capital we struggled decades for to protect his heinous, serial felonies from scrutiny. More fundamentally, Miscavige – once again – wants to heave L Ron Hubbard under the bus.

    Line in the sand, indeed.”

    Yes, David Miscavige has squandered much more than money. Line in the sand, indeed.

    Leonore

  26. Marty,
    Indeed, I was knocked to my seat. I get it. I get that David Miscavige is going to plead that what Debbie Cook testified to, the torture, the degradation, the insanity, is “protected” as “Scientology religious practice”. Maybe even the ploy of “core practice”.

    This is truly David Miscavige’s attempt to utterly destroy the work of so many.

    I am factually stunned. And after all I’ve witnessed, all I’ve seen, all I’ve been through on this incredible ride. This final death throe of this savage man to claim his savagery is “religious doctrine” of Scientology has left me mouth agape, shaking my head, and yes, I’m now sitting down.

    • P.S. Dave, “practice” doesn’t have the same protection as “belief”. That’s made abundantly clear in the precedents all the way back to Watson V Jones.

      You are such a… oh Lord, there are no descriptive words that fit this moment. You are ineffably stupid, mean, evil, destructive, boorish, callous, idiotic, unable to grasp, arrogant, slimey, pathetic, cruel, crass, dull, obtuse, blunt…

    • In a recent court hearing regarding the Headley case. Elliot Apelson basically told the judge that while the violent assaults conducted at Int (the church itself provided a stack of sworn affidavits stating specific violent assaults over a period of years at the Int base) could account for people not wanting to join Scientology, they were still outside the jurisdiction of the State, as it was a religious matter.

      There is a panel of judges who now need to decide whether the Headley case will be allowed to move forward, Maybe at some point Mike or Marty will give their experienced analysis of the situation as the “church” defense seems to parallel that used in the abuse of Debbie.

    • Journey Continued

      Jim I think it would be a very grave mistake on his part to make that argument. The suit is about whether or not Debbie and Wayne violated a non-disclosure agreement. His argument to date is that they had an agreement which they were compensated for and that they knowingly violated that agreement and therefor the church is within its rights to be recompensed. On the other hand Debbie and Wayne argue that the agreement is invalid as it was signed under duress. So the defence has to raise all of the barbaric treatment as evidence of duress.

      Whether the duress is protected or not is really not the point. The point is did they or did they not sign the NDA under duress. If so then the contract is not valid and the church does not have a case.

      If the Church starts to defend itself against the accusations, then it will get them nowhere as they will have to prove that the accusations that have been presented of duress are false – which they will have a very hard time doing given all of the first hand witnesses who are willing to stand up and testify to what happens in the hole etc. It legally does not strengthen the church’s case to go down that road and it is a real PR nightmare from which DM and his cronies will never be able to recover.

      If they chose not to defend themselves against the accusations that the contracts were signed under duress, then again they fail to prove their case and lose.

      The only way they can limit the damage that has already been created by suing Debbie and Wayne is to drop the case and withdraw.

      So I figure there last shot is to ask for a summary judgement, which I do not believe they have any chance of winning, as there has already been testimony outlining the duress that Debbie and Wayne were under when they signed those contracts. Given the summary judgment is not awarded, then I believe the case will be dropped.

      It was a shocking error on the part of DM to file this suit in the first place as it was going to be a no win situation right from the start. But it does not surprise me in the least as SPs habitually wrong target.

      • I expect their case will revolve around the video of Debbie signing the contract and all the preamble.

        They’ll be a lot of objections on the grounds of ecclesiastical matters. No she can’t talk about conditions in the Sea Org that’s ecclesiastical. No she cannot say David Miscavige beat people that’s an ecclesiastical matter. No she can’t talk about the RPF that’s, well you get the picture.

        The question will be how will the jury interpret what they get to hear and how much the judge will sustain the objections.

        One hopes the jury are familia with the films of US POWs in North Korea and can see the similarities. One hopes they also realise how creepy making these videos is and raises the question, why?

      • JC,
        “I think it would be a very grave mistake on his part to make that argument. ”

        You may be right, Dave doesn’t make mistakes. This is all part of his diabolical plan to make himself the most ridiculed twatyr in history. It’s masterful. He’s truly THE Pope on A Box (an applebox).

  27. So, Darth Midget proclaims that abuse is institutionalized in Hubbard’s scripture, does he ?

    Anyone else remember the “Hazing” Flag Order specifically banning such? I’m sure a copy could be entered into evidence for the Defense.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

    • “Hazing” Flag Order—– SIMPLE but TRUE.

    • I found an image of that Flag Order here: http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=1421

      Full Text Follows:


      SEA ORGANIZATION
      Flag Order 1124 1 July 1968

      HAZING

      The hazing or physical punishment of a Sea Org member by officers, pettyofficers or other Sea Org members is subject to Comm Ev on charges of brutality.

      Discipline shall be enforced by the Master-at-arms and only at his order may hands be laid on a person under discipline and the only to restrain or incarcerate.

      Conditions or disciple may only be assigned or enforced after approval by the Captain of a vessel.

      L.Ron Hubbard
      Commodore

      Adopted as official
      Church Policy by
      CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
      INTERNATIONAL

      LRH:CSI:bb.gm”

    • SEA ORGANIZATION
      Flag Order 1124 1 July, 1968

      HAZING
      The hazing or physical punishment of a Sea Org member by officers, petty officers or other Sea Org members is subject to Comm Ev on charges of brutality.

      Discipline shall be enforced by the Master-at-Arms and only at his order may hands be laid on a person under discipline and then only to restrain or incarcerate.

      Conditions or discipline may only be assigned or enforced after approval by the Captain of a vessel.

      L. RON HUBBARD
      Commodore

      Adopted as official
      Church policy by
      CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
      INTERNATIONAL

      LRH:CSI:bb:gm

    • From HCO PL 29 APRIL 1965 ETHICS REVIEW
      LEVELS OF ETHICS ACTIONS
      “Ethics actions in degree of severity are as follows:
      …..
      Note that none of it carries any physical punishment or
      detention.”

      • And not to forget the definitions of ‘ENGRAM’. Here is no 11) “A MOMENT WHEN THE ANALYTICAL MIND IS SHUT DOWN BY PHYSICAL PAIN, DRUGS OR OTHER MEANS AND THE REACTIVE BANK IS OPEN TO THE RECEIPT OF A RECORDING” (DMSMH p. 153). That is how DIANETICS as a grass root movement stormed the US and that is what SCIENTOLOGY is built on.
        So, how in the world could physical punishment be acceptable and condoned?
        Greta

      • +10,000 Nomnom

    • Good reference!

    • And that was on a ship, what Miscavige does takes place mostley on American soil.
      Maybe the Government could send “persons of intrest” to Hemmet instead of Gitmo
      Free slave labor for Miscavige and the tax-payer doesn’t have to pay for the institutianalization. A win win situation.

      • Great idea! They’d probably fit right into the Co$ culture, and lend legitimacy to their claim of being a “church”. At least there would be some people praying six times a day, observing religious holidays and washing their dirty hands every now and then. If any are former Saddam Hussein buddies, I’m sure they’d feel right at home on the palace grounds.

      • Don’t give the diminutive David Miscavige ideas for new revenue streams; he’d still charge for the services of course but could do it for less.

        In fact he might even try to do a deal where he becomes like the Vatican, an independent city state within a country. His country, his laws and diplomatic immunity and invites to all those trade summits. The USA gets to dump all its undesirables in a no questions asked facility and Miscavige gets to be Dear Leader for real. Question is which chunk of the USA would he take over? Clearwater perhaps?

    • Most excellent Michael.

  28. Marty,
    It wasn’t DM’s fault – the instructions to the Lawyers got misrouted by someone in his office. David Miscavige does not make mistakes! These were the instructions to the Clearwater trial lawyers!

    Or perhaps he was paying attention to Mike’s pointing out of estoppel.

    • Sinar,
      Perhaps Dave mistook estoppel for Koppel and was back in the day…lost in rapturous delight, his hair in one single flowing piece, his skin tight as his sphincter, his suit a glowing blue, like his eyes, and the new teeth gleaming. Like Dorian Gray, ageless and dandy.

  29. If the Miscavige legal defense held water it would seem priests would be free to go after little boys. I’m not joking.

    • I gotta tell you, I’ve been on the receiving end of parents getting bridge money from pedophiles. Although I wasn’t raped, someone I know was, so maybe parishioners are covered under the little prick’s legal defense if they come bearing money for intensives.

    • Very true. Good point.

    • That’s right Mat. Or ritual human sacrifice could be institutionalized at public events.

      Or abortions could be enforced on the basis of “religious vows”……

      Or gang rape of women who “shame the family” could be condoned on moral and religious grounds…. Oooops! That does already happen in some cultures…..

    • That’s exactly right – per Miscavige logic that is where you end up.

    • Firebreathing Frog

      Come on, this is not part of the catholic church scripture, and the Catholic Church doesn’t defend the crimes of its pedophile priests under the First Amendment.

      It’s time OSA stop defending Miscavige crimes or they will be found guilty of covering up a criminal.
      Any staff, OSA or not, who knows about the crime of David Miscavige, should write knowledge reports or be found guilty for covering up this criminal. That’s also covered in LRH policies about knowledge report.

    • Yup Mat, in the Catholic church the ministers go after the little boys. In the Scientology church, the little boy goes after the ministers.

    • Hey Mat, very good point. I remember Miscavige in one event airing at-the-time current scandals of the catholic church regarding child abuse and then other negative world affairs on one event implying “that`s the state of world” but at the same, of course, implying that “we have the answer to insanity”.
      Well not if he is “at the helm”.

    • Mat,
      It DOES appear that this is almost true re priests getting away with messing with little boys. When reading the Scn article in the ‘Sueddeutsche Zeitung’ recently, I came across an article where a priest who had 280 incidents of ‘messing’ would look at only 2 years of imprisonment.
      Give me a break!!!!!

      • On this topic. Several weeks back there was a news item in Twin Cities about the archdiocese there declaring bankruptcy due to the 534 legal cases against it. The same article mentioned how 6 or seven other US archdiocese have already gone this same route but all with fewer cases against them. So violations brought to view can have some severe consequences. Let’s hope if there’s a countersuit by Debbie it’s aimed at David Miscavige the individual as separate and different than his assumed identity within the church.

        • Bankruptcies generally require conservators, so it is probably logical that M&M would brush up on corporate conservatorships to catch the pieces or grab the helm. One way to get the DM rat to jump ship would be to send the Churchs of David into bankruptcies with an endless onslaught of suits being paid for out of David’s accounts by having large contingencies go to Legal Beagles and Barracudas for winning their cases. This would confirm that the tables have been turned.

  30. So wait, I thought that church has been claiming for years that testimony about The Hole, overboarding, and other abuse at Int and SO in general was “lies told by bitter apostates”. But now they are changing the tune and admitting that it exists but is covered by religious “freedom”. They are publicly admitting that they have been lying all along about whistle blowers.

    • Exactly. Miscaviges first line of defense (it’s all a lie) is pretty much gone.
      He is now down to “it’s my religious right to abuse others as I see fit”. If this doesn’t work he will be down to his last card – RUN AND HIDE.

  31. What I do not understand is why is nobody suing DM? Why is there no raid? Wouldn’t it be easy for the police to get into the hole? There are plenty of witnesses, right? Please sue this guy. I am willing to contribute and donate again.

    • Because he has at least 1/2 billion dollars to use to drag any suit out until the plaintiff is bankrupt.

      Sun Tzu said in The Art Of War, “never fight a battle at the time or place of the enemy general’s choosing.” The Courts are DM’s chosen grounds.

      Michael A. Hobson
      Independent Scientologist

      • I think Sun Tzu was operating on limited data according to that time. DM chose Texas to fight a battle, he chose the time and place. He lost. Having reason and honesty on your side goes a lot further than cash in many social arenas in this day and age. There is no place or time for a battle of DM’s choosing, that will prove a victory ground for him at this point in time. All the money at his disposal did not make him look holy in Texas. It is true money can generate many circumstances. It served to enslave India, but a pheasant named Gandi rose above the financial interests of Great Britian and lifted a nation with him, as well as their enemy. The forces that really matter, have abandoned David Miscavige.
        Once you loose your ability to reason, you have lost everything. He is bankrupt on many levels. The ones that still permit, even long, to be misguided by him, pour spoons of water into a vast desert while dying of thirst. Who has benefited from his company? Who has risen from walking in his shadow or on his path? I do not agree that he has unlimited resources to suppress anyone in a court of law. Clearly, that idea has fallen by the wayside.

    • Law enforcement entered Mormon property to investigate Warren Jeffs. Similiarly, LE recently entered Amish property to deal with some radical lunatics.

      • Threefeetbsback /
        It makes also wonder why No law is down there, especially with all the hipe about the “Hole ” prison Camp and people stuck in there, and besides with the overwhelming evidence that leavers have announced
        in write ups , I seriously hope the law has been told by those that l
        have eft what their experiences have been and torture each of them
        went through. Its not going to help if people just dont talk out.
        The next to question is actual Who really knows what is going on
        at the base Hemet (Hole ) and what are its current changes going
        on since the trial has opened Church vs Cook.Anybody been down there ?
        The FBI should be down there monitoring it now.and Does any one
        know if any law enforcement has been there ?
        Especially after its actually openly known after the outbreak story of Debbie Cook story in court and the outcome of evidence related to
        Annie Tideman publicly known and it being left for Marthy and Karen
        and others to sort that out in respect to the notification to family Its just beggers beleif . You have to wonder why a blind Eye is being turned on that compound.Or such a delay on action.

      • three feetback I am sorry the way you might read the comments
        by hadley The format is awful and messy.I hope you will understand anyway.I hope you except my apology for this.Sincerly Hadley/

  32. Good posting Marty. It looks like DM is a gone’r. I’m glad you are officiating with Mike Rinder DM’s spiritual funeral.

  33. Really good points well made Marty. Dress up the evil to make it look like LRH’s Scientology. Pure Miscavige.

    I looked over Pouw’s (Miscavige’s) statement after the Church surrender last week. Apart from the predictable vicious lies and slander of longest-serving, highest trained Captain FSO ever, Debbie Cook, and the obligatory fawning adulation of Dear Leader at the end, a couple of things really stood out:

    The action has apparently done “irreparable harm to the Church through her actions”. In my dictionary, irreparable means cannot be undone or repaired. Good. So, just to be clear Dave, the Church is dead, right?

    The other do-you-laugh-or-cry statement that stood out for me was this sublime piece of fiction: “Since her departure, the Church has expanded many times over – and particularly where she served in Clearwater”.

    Not to mention this statement is 180 degrees at odds with the “irreparable harm” done to the Church, can anyone in Clearwater see several times over expansion? Last I heard from a public recently returned from Flag the atmosphere there is tense and somewhat threatening (as it was in 2001 when I was last there come to think of it).

    The public aren’t the idiots you’d like to believe Dave. It’s now a matter of court record that you are a violent thug, a bully who has tortured and brainwashed your senior staff. That’s what the public know, and no amount of fresh propoganda is going to change that. Now, to quote one of your New World Order Post-GAT public to me last week Dave, “Fuck Off, you’re a Dick”.

    • Playing Devil’s advocate the massive expansion attributed to Ms Cook’s leaving was irrepairably damaged by her email four years later. While not outside the realms of the possible the statements are never the less well beyond the bounds of reason. One can reasonable assume the rest of the text falls in the same area.

      • Look at the Tampa Times link – they said the very same thing about me, Amy, Mike and Tom.

        • I know, equally outside the realms of reason.

          Of course Miscavige will turn to the remaining members and proclaim that he’s purged the causes of the stalled expansion and now the church of scientology is ready for meteoric expansion up wise, straight up and vertical. So ready the cheque books, go see the loan officers because it’s time to get 3 feet upside the head and start the quintessential org program that will deliver the greatest expansion of scientology of all time.

          Meanwhile the Nation of Islam is still advocating its members do scientology courses.

        • Well yeah the church would have exceeded the size of the Catholic church by now had it expanded as much as cob David Miscavige perpetrator of evil of a whole new order of magnitude has announced occurred as a result of each of your departures.

          But let me see, in the last several years cob has been falsely boosting FSO stats through policy and tech violations in order to reflect huge planetary expansion by doing three things.
          1. ordering the OT Ambassadors through their OT Ambassador program with it’s own target on that program to send all of their lower Bridge pcs to Flag. And
          2. blanket CSes that send pcs and pre-OTs and OTs back down the grade chart to “go clear”
          3. blanket CSes that send pcs, pre-OTs and OTs back down the grade chart to do their Objectives Processing grade chart step AGAIN.

          Does anyone think that the outer org trainee objective stats on the TRs and Objectives alone was enough to double FSO well done auditing hours reported? So even if it were TRUE that this stat has increased since Debbie was PROMOTED by cob David Miscavige liar bigger than the orbit of Pluto it would only be because of his off-policy, out-tech know best actions which are creating a false impression of this so called expansion.

          Help me out here OT Ambassadors, was it in ’05 that cob said in the behind-close-door briefing that all Class V orgs were out-tech and so he was going to be piloting the objectives and grades at Flag and then export it to the orgs – and it STILL HASN’T BEEN DONE!!!!! But then a few years after he black PRed all the tech being delivered in the world mostly by Flag trained tech staff. But then he added an addendum to that more recently saying that the guys who compiled the grades checklists in ’88 were all declared and it’s been discovered that they added a bunch of unnecessary processes to the grades…so then he black PRed all of RTRC…

          Wow!

          That’s the results of a senior executive who has FAILED man, an absolute, complete, thorough, obsessive TOTAL FAILURE!

          GIVE ME QUALLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • “irreparable harm to the Church through her actions”
      No one reading and understanding her email will ever donate to the IAS or Idle Orgs ever again. So, yeah, irreparable harm but to DM’s church NOT Scientology.

  34. Right on, Mat. The parallel between renegade Catholic priests abusing children and fake Scientologist David Miscavige’s treatment of adult human beings is spot on. There is no “ecclesiastic privilege” in either case.
    And by the way, here’s a message for David Miscavige – just because you did not personally slap or abuse women does not mean that you are not guilty of doing that. If you ordered it, approved of it, or even just knew about it without doing something drastic to stop it, it is the same as you personally assaulting a lady. Real men know this. They don’t have to have it explained to them.
    And…..LRH said in his HCOPL 16 July 1971 entitled VIOLENCE,
    “The one thing that for sure gets a government or ruling body nowhere is violence”. Later in the same PL Ron says, “Thus violence practiced for its own sake is just insanity.”
    So, read the f-ing bulletin, Miscavige. ….No, don’t. Because then you will think that you have to re-write it, you out-tech, heretic scum.
    Meanwhile, know this: That there are gentlemen in this world who take great offense at your behavior and do not agree that this is your right as an “ecclesiastic privilege”. I am one of them.

    Espiritu

  35. Miscavige = evil is what evil does…
    A good soldier wears much in his duties.
    This battle is a long one.

  36. Unless a person knows better, Spencers statement asserting religious matters can add enough doubt regarding what are acceptable church practices to slow or stop the frenzy and momentum for most who read or heard the statement. But Marty correctly puts it in context and points out that torture,assualt,etc are clearly differentiated from anything the church could claim as religious.
    Chuck Beatty points out that overboardings and chain locker incidents were practiced back in the days when LRH was in charge. True. And LRH can be criticized for those. Nostalgia aside, they are cruel and unusual punishments. Organizational hazing. Worthy of censure. But they were minor compared with more recent events at INT. Citing them as a precedent is no defense at all, at any level. And though the 8th dynamic may not be proscribed by law, the 3rd most definitely is. Just ask some of the priests in prison.

  37. Taking Liberties with Religion:

    2,600 years ago a monk named Devadatta tried to hijack the Buddha’s
    teaching. Devadatta even attempted to murder the Buddha by various violent means and even tried to poison the Buddha.

    The historical account as recorded follows:

    Pointing out that the Buddha is now old, Devadatta suggests
    that he, Devadatta, assume leadership of the Buddhist movement. The Buddha utterly rejects this request, remarking that “I would not at this time hand over the order of monks even to my chief disciples. How then could I hand it over to you a wretched one to be vomited like spittle?”

    Taking Liberties with religion even evoked a severe rebuke from the Buddha as it was considered a ‘very high crime’.

    According to the record, Devadatta reached a sad end and was
    ‘swallowed up by the earth in an earthquake.’

    GMW

  38. On one hand, Miscavige says to the court, via the attorney that Debbie’s testimony is about an “ecclesiastical” matter, where the things Debbie says happened are a religious practice, so does not belong in court.

    On the other hand, he says that everything Debbie said is false. So why would he need to defend it as an ecclesiastical matter if what she said happened never happened in the first place?

    Dave Fagen

    • Dave,
      It never happened and that fact, of its not happening, and all this being false is an eccliastical matter. Shhhhh, nobody can say it happened or didn’t happen. None of this is happening.

      • Jim The next great revelation will be that there never was a court case in San Antonio. The apostates just made the whole story up of a court case.

      • REASONS BEING PREPARED TO DEFEND MISCAVIGE AGAINST LAWSUITS FOR ABUSE:

        1) I officially declared myself legally blind so I couldn’t even see to hit them if I tried.

        2) They’re all just jealous because they’re not the mean whacky dictatorial cult leader.

        3) People willingly and of their own accord smashed their faces into my fists before I could deflect them.

        4) We were all just playing grab-ass and it got a little out of hand.

        5) They all signed Constitutionally Protected Religious Contracts agreeing to be hit, but I still didn’t hit them.

        6) They’re just splurging on the joy of creation, fibbing for the fun of it.

        7) It’s a Secret Copyrighted and Patented Constitutionally Protected Test in Scientology, to lie about someone to see if they can take it.

        8) If anyone was ever hit I definitely was never there at any time, ever and have no idea who the person is.

        9) Hey, I have lots of powerful lawyers and money and guns!

        10) Tom said it was OK.

        • 11) We lost all of the other “trade secrets” so we’ve had to make up new ones. That’s what we’re actually trying to keep secret. Shhh. Go away now.

      • Here’s some rare footage of Miscavige without his wig, outlining the terms of the standard NDA to a new member of his team:

  39. Bravo Marty, I love hearing the brave ROAR!!!!!! like a lion! The lonely weak Wilderbeast Miscavige, limping and vulnerable, is being eyed hungrily by high perched perdators of truth. Yumm! LOL

  40. Tell me, why the hell isn’t this guy in jail? I don’t get it.

    • Because he has a billion dollars at this disposal and he is hiding behind religious freedom with his lawyers protecting him.

      • What? David Miscavige only draws a modest salarie to cover his basic needs, he barely makes enough to pay Federal Income Tax.

        The 2 – 14 billion US touted as being Mr Miscavige’s belongs to the church of scientology. If they belonged to Mr Miscavige he’d be in a heap of trouble with the IRS.

        BTW 2billion is probably conservative 14 probably a bit outlandish. Problem is all those cash reserves are compartmentalised in odd subsiduaries around the world. I doubt even Mr Miscavige knows the precise amount or even the amount within a 10million and I suspect that he’s the only one who knows where it all is apart from maybe a lawyer and accountant or two.

    • OM,
      It’s called mutual protection. He protects his bosses by crippling the only outfit that had the potential of crippling them. They protect him so he can keep dispersing us but his protection runs out to the degree that the flock breaks free. That’s why we’re so happy that so many announce themselves; the more that stand up, the less his value for his protectors. Eventually, when he becomes too great a legal and PR liability, they’ll drop him and appoint another to take his place, blaming all the bad things on him, explaining to the courts that the Church has now really reformed and all is dandy, thus protecting the same old protection racket.

      • Erwin Croughs: once again I ask you: Name these supposed bosses of David Miscavige and provide us access to your documentation that demonstrates “they” are in fact his bosses. Otherwise, all you have is a suppressive generality and it’s getting old.

        Michael A. Hobson
        Independent Scientologist

        • +1
          Dox please.

        • Mike, I second your post.

        • CST legally owns the trademarks http://sc-i-r-s-ology.com/documents/1993-11-30copyrightxfer.html and can fire Davey in a heartbeat and can legally revoke his licences. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1-Y0O8PNQ

          CST is owned by a couple of non scientologist tax lawyers and some cohorts like Sherman who, like Yingling and similar tugs won’t be found in the Hole. The fact that a couple of non Scientologist tax lawyers own the trademarks is an outpoint so huge that Davey knows nobody will notice, nor that he was the one selling them.

          If Davey was sole ruler, why would he allow them legally in charge and weekly rip 10% of his loot. And if they didn’t like Davey’s actions why don’t they just revoke his licences. That is called a mutual protection racket but is goes way beyond that.

          Scientology has only a handful of real enemies and LRH spotted the banksters early on. Here is a little update: http://goldmanbanksters.com/about-us/banksters/ Now I don’t have that proof but in this case I trust LRH.

          They are now in charge and through Congress control the FBI, CIA, DOJ, Fed and thus most American citizen. http://disquietreservations.blogspot.com/2011/11/9-final-ways-bankster-occupied-us.html

          They’ve been working hard to get full control over America and succeeded, partly thanks to cutting the Scientology resistance by making Davey guilty of major crimes for which he can be put in jail any time.

          In the good old days, when Freedum was still a political weapon, there was no way the banksters could have pulled what they just did. The Church used to be a major obstacle to unlimited power for the wealthy elite and had to be silenced, eliminated or brought under control one way or the other. They’ve tried for decades during LRH’s lifetime to no avail.

          Not succeeding in wiping it out, the Church, as a vocal and effective group, had to be brought into a state where it could be blackmailed and the best way to do that was by making it guilty of overts, easily proven on this blog.

          They made Davey sell out to Big Pharma as drugging half the country was necessary for obedient controllable citizen that would allow illegal wars, mass foreclosures, medical rip off, bail outs, bribes, etc. As long as Davey cripples the group that tries to speak up and as long as he makes a fool of himself so as to not have the Church ever be taken seriously and as long as he toes the line of bankrupting the flock, he won’t be jailed.

          If Davey’s crimes and power assumption were the real Why of Scientology deteriorating, the problem would have been gone by now due to world wide media coverage.

          However, the goal of the banksters to destroy Scientology has never before in history been so close to completion as in 2009/10. Whether forced or voluntarily, coincidence or orchestrated, Davey is executing their very goal. That despite massive media attention no federal agency will act on his serious crimes is at least proof that he is protected.

          To get that kind of protection you have to pay your masters and as proven on this blog he is actually delivering the very goods that the elite, the enemy of freedom, needs to excecute its sordid plans.

      • It’s time to play SCIENTOLOGY MYSTERY CONSPIRACY QUIZ!

        Today’s Test Question is:

        WHO CONTROLS DAVID MISCAVIGE?

        ❏ 1) The Marcabians

        ❏ 2) The Martian Mole People

        ❏ 3) Howard Hughes’s Frozen Head

        ❏ 4) Walt Disney’s Frozen Head

        ❏ 5) Pat Broeker from Switzerland

        ❏ 6) Some James Bond movie antagonist guy in a mountain fortress

        ❏ 7) Wall Street

        ❏ 8) David Rockefeller and Baron von Rothschild

        ❏ 9) Rocky Stump

        ❏ 10) Arthur Hubbard

        ❏ 11) Some really tricky guys from another universe

        ❏ 12) That ex-IRS guy

        ❏ 13) Marty Rathbun

        ❏ 14) The Devil

        ❏ 15) Mean fish who have special mind powers

        ❏ 16) Halliburton

        ❏ 17) Joe Pesci

        ❏ 18) DM’s Brother Ronnie and their cousin Wilbur

        ❏ 19) Tom Cruise

        ❏ 20) L. Ron Hubbard’s Rapper Grandson

        First 10 winners will receive free T-shirts of David Miscavige’s head on a Howdy Doody puppet! ($14.95 shipping and handling)

        ★ Allow quite a long damn time for processing and delivery
        ★ Limit one T-shirt per nation
        ★ Donate money directly to Debbie Cook Defense Fund (Suit)
        ★ Correct answer must be accompanied by documented proof

        • The correct answers are:
          1-His GPM case and the items in it he is currently living
          2-L Ron Hubbard- whom he must destroy (oppose- see GPM)
          3-Followed by # 13 Marty Rathbun whom he must oppose (see GPM)
          4-Tom Cruise- who aligns with his op-terming of LRH (see GPM)
          *All blunted by single malt Scotch- to ease his burden- but massively restimulating his already raging GPM case.

          I don’t think I left anything out but I’m certain there are those here that can help flush out all the correct answers.

          • Anne Howe,
            Hmmmm…well…that documentation looks pretty complete, I must say. I’m going to run it by the Board of Directors at the next Who Won The Contest Meeting and see if it passes their scrutinization. You know how these contests are, they take forever to come up with a winner. But so far, you are not only the winner but the only eligible contestant, so keep your fingers crossed and hope no one else tries to elbow you out of the way using some trick they learned in OSA or something.

            • I await my prize. If it’s an IAS membership we will have a problem.

              • Duh! The prize is what? The prize is what? Very important to read the fine print details of the contest, otherwise they can pull something on you. The prize is mentioned clearly. Are you entering contests without reading what the prized is?? You must really wanna win something!

  41. “I have this fear that a Church can do anything it wants under the false guise of “religious freedom”, Doctor Switzer, and in my nightmare, the Co$ buries me alive in a box!”

    I want all Scientologists who have a fear that the Co$ can abuse them under the guise of “religious freedom” to heed the sage advice in the above clip, and just “STOP IT!” I want all those still in the Co$ who have a fear that the Co$ holds the keys to their eternity, to “STOP IT!!” I want all those still in the Co$ who have a fear that any auditing outside the Co$ by any of the thousands of duly classed auditors and C/Ses who have left it is “squirrel” to “STOP IT!!”

      • Greta – So happy you enjoyed! (I love that skit!) Those auditing outside “the monster” are the ones providing an upward impetus in many individuals’ lives these days, even in the great recession of economic times. Those first steps into Scn make such a big difference. – Carcha.

  42. Why did David Miscavige use the Courts if he wanted the Courts to have no say in how it goes about punishing members? If the Church of Scientology wants to engage in torture, child abuse, false prisonment and violence as part of its Church “discipline,” don’t try to ask the Courts to protect the secrecy about this or sanction it. This information should be known far and wide. The Court should bow out of any involvement in silencing members of the Church who flee the abusive culture of the Church. It should decline to support the Church’s abusive way of controlling its members. David Miscavige should be made to attest to the fact that he uses physical violence and imprisonment to punish his staff and that he believes that LRH writings support this, so that all Scientologists know what they are involved in and exactly what kind of man their leader is.

    I find the whole Facebook unfriending actions to be juvenile and petty. That an executive in any organization would engage in such activity clearly demonstrates the immaturity of the people we are dealing with.

  43. De Ja Vu, how many will cop the Nuremberg Defense
    “Befehl Ist Befehl”

    All of those Big Red Books and Big Green Books being used as
    door stops in GAT

    The Post Miscavige Scientology will come soon, its just around the corner.

  44. The first amendment isn’t absolute though and this idea that first amendment trumps everything is wrong, morally and legally.

    • You are right Sara.

      It didnt work for Warren Jeffs. Or Jim Baker. Or Jimmy Swaggert. Or pedophile priests. Or, or, or….

      The Constitution and Bill of Rights do not stand separate from the law. You cannot hide behind the Consitutional guarantee of freedom of speech to libel and slander. You cannot try to carry a firearm onto an airplane “because the Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms.” And you cannot abuse, falsely imprison, assault, batter or torment people and claim that it is protected by “the First Amendment.” Sorry Dave. I know you have convinced yourself you can, but no matter how many sycophants you have telling you that you are right, you are going to end up “dead right” on this one.

      • At this point the judge addresses the court.” Thank you Sara and Mr Rinder.” ” There will be a short recess of the court while the bailiff brings in the highchair for Mr Miscavige as well as his teleprompter.” “Mr Miscavige please be advised that at the suggestion of Mr Jeffreys we have trained the court recorders in the translation of “shermanspeak” so as not to over burden them with keeping unnecessary notes of what you have to say” “Court will resume in 20 minutes.”.

      • O F F I C I A L D O C U M E N T

        COURT TRIAL OF MISCAVIGE FOR FELONY ASSAULT, FALSE IMPRISONMENT, HUMAN TRAFFICKING, TAX FRAUD, HARASSMENT, FRAUDULENT REPRESENTATION, MISUSE OF CHARITABLE FUNDS AND EMBEZZLEMENT:

        (Transcript of David Miscavige’s testimony in his defense)

        DM: “Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah! BLAH! Blah, blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah! BLAH! Blah, blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah! BLAH! Blah, blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah! BLAH! Blah, blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah! BLAH! Blah, blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah.”

        (end transcript)

        DM’S ATTORNEY: “Aaah…ummm…aah”

        DM’S WITNESS TOM CRUISE: “Heh-heh-heh, ha ha ha ha-ha-ha-ha HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAH HAH AHAH AHAH AH ah ha heh heh-heh-heh.”

        DM’S WITNESS GUILLAUME LESERVE: “Dat man does NOT haf a streak of VIO-lance in him!!!!!!!”

        DM’S WITNESS NORMAN STARKEY: “(Hiccup) Huh? Whazzat? Yeah, thaz true. (Burp)”

        DM’S WITNESS HEBER JENTZSCH: “Hmmmrph-mmmmph-rfmmmm.”

        DM’S WITNESS PERSONAL COOK: “Davey, he eat good! Clean plate!”

        DM’S WITNESS PERSONAL VALET PEDRO GONZALEZ: “He tip good! Only have to carry 40 luggage trunks now.”

        DM’S WITNESS TOMMY DAVIS: “…and it was Marty Rathbun and those DAMNED Marcabians who did what they accuse Mr. Miscavige of and it was 143 DOCUMENTED instances of THEM punching, kicking, choking, spitting on and throwing to the ground OUR LEADER, David Miscavige, the Ecclesiastical Leader of Leaders of our Worldwide Religion and yes I’m getting ANGRY am I angry at you? Not necessarily but I’m DAMNED angry and if you SEE those Marcabians or that PSYCHOTIC Marty Rathbun you tell them I said they are BASTARDS and COWARDS and P-S-Y-C-H-O-T-I-C and bad and I’m ripping this microphone off and I’m stomping away. I’M GODDAMNED ANGRY! GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!”

        (end of testimonies)

        JURY VERDICT: GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS

        JUDGE: “You are one mean twisted little crooked bastard!”

        SENTENCE: 147 years in the San Quentin State Penitentiary and a shitload of time in Hell.

        ☆ SO IT IS WRITTEN SO SHALL IT BE TRUE ☆

        © Everyone but Miscavige 2012 – Eternity

        CHAMPAGNE TOAST: CRISTAL

  45. Slimy bastard.

  46. http://youtu.be/9XPoeP996PM Hey Miscabage, watch out your own attorney could turn on you and that would be the day to remember. It is coming.

  47. The biggest task I ever had in my Corporate Scientology career was the requirement to reconcile salvation with degradation, bankrupty and spiritual decay, despite all the colourful, smiling posters on the walls depicting something entirely more savoury. The ED of the local provincial class IV org in Brighton (England) was a freshly minted OT8, an American lady by the name of Pavane Fraser. Each week, she would select a hapless staff member to degrade for the duration – sleep and food deprivation, screaming accusatory verbal abuse and the cleaning of toilets with toothbrushes etc. And the thought that kept appearing on the e-meter dial during relentless sec-checking regarding evil intentions towards COB and Int Management – and the one I dared never articulate – was “Having read Dianetics, I just didn’t think Scientology would be like this”. That was 1989, but what would I know? I am just an apostate that turned my back on my former caring-human-rights-loving religion that had only ever tried to help me.

  48. “A THIRD DYNAMIC PSYCHOSIS IS THE SUBSTITUTE OF VIOLENCE FOR REA­SON.” L.R.H. From GROUP SANITY

    Pavane Fraser was a dramatizing psychotic according to the above reference. David Miscavige and those that follow orders on command for violence are also dramatizing psychotics according to the above reference.
    Those that are leaking P.C. folder data, bullying others through various web sites with the purpose to destroy and harm, are also dramatizing psychotics.

    Pressured into departing from reason, they lean on violence for social intercourse. This is third dynamic psychosis. They substitute violence for reason. Anyone who can go through their day pretending nothing is wrong against the backdrop of what is going on in the Church, has chosen to depart with reason and lean on violence. It is a choice. People are free to make choices. We just choose to remain with reason.

    • CHURCH OF SPIRITUAL TECHNOLOGY
      COB, RTC DIVISION

      MANAGEMENT FAST-ACTION TROUBLESHOOTER

      SIT: DOWNSTATS
      ACTION: FACE PUNCH

      SIT: NO PIE FACE
      ACTION: SLAP

      SIT: COMM LAG
      ACTION: CHOKE

      SIT: EAT TOO SLOW
      ACTION: SPIT

      SIT: NOT SURE
      ACTION: THROW TO GROUND

      SIT: PILLAR CROOKED
      ACTION: CHINESE HAIRCUT

      SIT: STAGE CURTAIN ON FIRE
      ACTION: EYE POKE

      SIT: NON-COMPLIANCE
      ACTION: WHIP WITH LANYARD

      SIT: BAD PRESS ABOUT VIOLENCE
      ACTION: TWIST HEAD

      SIT: SUN TOO BRIGHT
      ACTION: STOMACH PUNCH

      SIT: WIND MESSED UP HAIR
      ACTION: RIP HAIR OUT

      SIT: JET WOBBLED
      ACTION: TWIST PILOT’S EAR

      SIT: WON’T STOP BLEEDING
      ACTION: KARATE CHOP TO NECK

      SIT: WANTS OUT OF RPF
      ACTION: WATER BOARDING

      SIT: DUST ON MOTORCYCLE
      ACTION: HUMILIATION

      SIT: TC PATH NOT VACUUMED
      ACTION: FLYING LEAP KICK TO GROIN

      SIT: SALUTE DIDN’T SNAP
      ACTION: BREAK FINGER

      SIT: WON’T BREAK FINGERS
      ACTION: BREAK FINGER

      SIT: FINGER WON’T BREAK
      ACTION: BREAK ARM

      SIT: TOO OLD TO WORK
      ACTION: THROW IN WOOD CHIPPER

      David Miscavige
      COB, RTC
      👽

      cc: TC

  49. I am not a scientologist but have been following events since Jan 1 with great interest.

    Over 30 years ago, a very good friend, a very fine young man, who was outstanding at keeping in touch with his family and friends, disappeared into the Sea Org – after which, completely out of character, he had no communication whatsoever with family or friends for several years.

    He left the SO after a number of years, but any questions about what happened during those years were responded to with non-answers – again entirely out of character for my friend.

    I know from his wife that even many years after leaving, he was repeatedly harrassed by telephone calls from CoS, the content of which he refused to discuss with her – but which made him very tense.

    So of course, over the years I’ve been very interested and also very concerned when I came across articles, tv programmes and, many years ago, a book about CoS.

    Since 1st January I have been rooting for Debbie Cook – concerned about the intolerable treatment to which she was subjected, admiring of her honesty and courage. On the opening day at San Antonio, like many of you, I could not move from my computer as the frequent updates came in and I literally danced with delight at the withdrawal of the case. I also felt that the outstanding way in which she was supported by people, who both understood what she was up against and had the skills to assist, was truly heartwarming.

    However, as I afterwards explored the Internet, I was disturbed by claims by Maria Pia Gardini that under severe pressure from Debbie and others, she had reluctantly handed over very large amounts of her inheritance. There were also claims elsewhere that Debbie had been exerting severe and unacceptable pressure on Flag staff to generate income. Debbie, however, says very clearly that Scientology is ‘kind and caring and good’.

    Where does the truth lie?

    Similarly, as most of you will know, the reports on LRH cover a very wide spectrum of claims. Debbie’s LRH was also ‘kind and caring and good’. There would appear to be evidence of LRH behaviour that is much farther removed from kind, caring and good than the inconsistencies that each one of us human beings manifests. There additionally seems to be considerable evidence that LRH’s relationship with truth also went far beyond the normal imperfections and fudges.

    Are these claims, re LRH, of severely dysfunctional behaviour and serious lack of truthfulness correct?

    If they are correct, what is the solid foundation for quoting LRH’s words as if they were a sacred scripture?

    And finally, has anyone produced a well researched, comprehensive and objective analysis of the many contradictory claims?

    • I think Dean Fox has a wonderful reply for you – I’ve copied it from a reply he made to another’s comment:
      The joining up is part of the problem with all religions.

      Simon Blackburn in his study of Plato’s Republic said that religions were fossilized philosophies.

      For L Ron Hubbard scientology was a philosophy because it evolved as he learned. Others followed it and it became a religion, especially once he died.

      If you aspire to follow in Hubbard’s footsteps then it’s your own personal journey. Actually follow is the wrong word because the whole point is not to follow but to forge your own path.

      Sure directions are great but always make your own way, never blindly follow directions. Why do you think Hubbard developed self auditing?

      Sure you can share you experiences but don’t assume they’re a mandate to direct others because they work for you. Each journey is going to be different.

      Use scientology and indeed any other belief system as an inspiration or guide but don’t fall in to the trap of joining a group that proscribes set beliefs and practises.

      Never accept there is “one true way”. Life would be incredibly dull if it were just a matter of following the instructions.

      • Start with some of the good stuff to see if it can be used to improve life. Even if just to explain why people like David do what they do.

      • Marty with that post you made my day !
        I’m thinking along the exact same path !
        Thanks for wording it so well !
        First we followed LRH, then we followed DM, then some wanted to follow Marty or now perhaps Debbie or again LRH, but in fact boots in the sky says everything follow yourself !

      • Marty, your comments here are so true for me and so beautifully stated that I think they should be repeated as a major post by you. These words speak to me so much that I will be copying them down in my “sort of journal” to look at again. There is much wisdom in Scientology and really all I ever wanted to do in the subject was to study it and use what was real to me to lead a happier life and help others to do the same.

      • That was a nice post Dean Fox made above, earlier in this thread, and a good reply to Neil.

      • For every individual there is an important step on the Road to Truth. You must be able to separate truth (natural law) from opinion. In a very early tape in the 50s LRH talks about his concern over whether his viewpoint was coloring his observation of truths. I don’t believe anybody is going to argue about the reality of ARC Breaks or Problems or Overts, etc. These are as real and observable as gravity. I don’t think many people would call them “opinion” (my opinion.)

        In another tape he once said something like, “I always tell you if it is my opinion or natural law.” But in fact he didn’t. LRH did at times mix his opinions into Tech and Policy. And so each individual who is on the Road to Truth needs to separate for himself truth from opinion.

        Fortunately or unfortunately this is not easy. It requires dedicated study and your own observation. But the rewards are great: self determinism and judgement.

    • It is a paradox, is it not, Neil? Marty/Dean Fox’s answer is exactly right. At the end of the day, Scientology is what you review that is true for you. As for me, the whole of the Sea Org was an experiment that failed. The whole of the “justice” P/Ls are also an experiment that failed, because for as long as I have been involved with Scientology (since 1969), I have very, very, very rarely seen them applied correctly, or with love. This latest caper with Debbie Cook is yet another proof that the Church itself has abandoned its own justice policies.

      You said: “If they are correct [claims of LRH dysfunction], what is the solid foundation for quoting LRH’s words as if they were a sacred scripture?” Whether Ron was dysfunctional or not, there is NO foundation for quoting LRH as sacred scripture. Among Scientologists who are trained (and, to me, someone who is not trained is not a Scientologist), quoting LRH policy or tech bulletins (or, more accurately, stating and showing what policy or technical reference applies in a given situation) is shorthand, only earned after learning it and seeing that it is correct. There is a lot of policy and tech that Ron wrote that was later deprecated by him in one way or another, so to quote all of LRH as gospel would be nutty. Only a moron would quote everything LRH said as the “Gospel Truth” – Ron himself never asked for that, nor did he expect it.

      Scientology does a really good job of describing the human condition and provides an explanation of why things are the way they are, and shows a way to help rise above the animalistic and material tendencies we all have. It also, however, can feed that animalism if that is your bent. We describe how to brainwash someone with a view to reversing its effect. However, someone could read that and say “hey! Brainwashing! Good idea!”. We describe what the highest virtues and motivations are for people. Someone could read that and say “hey! Let’s harness the basic goodness and trust of these people and make a few bucks.”

      Honestly, I have no freaking idea why anyone would put up with the “hole” for longer than about 2 seconds. The only answer I can think of is that the inductees’ intentions are to live through the insanity so as to flush it away when the chance comes. No one but a mad person would think this is the correct way to do things. Mr. David Miscavige fits that bill well, as do people who are actively supporting him now. There certainly is zero policy that condones the actions that occur in the hole, or even Fair Game and Disconnection. That Miscavige is doing these things proves, again, that he is not following the established policies of the church.

      I will never forgive Miscavige for creating out of the Church of Scientology the very thing our critics have feared most. There is a lot of good in Scientology – a hell of a lot – and Miscavige has done an awesome job of covering it up.

      • Maybe the answer to why people tolerate the hole for more than two seconds is “you had to be there.” But there does seem to come a point where you either walk away (easier said than done) or get totally broken.

        • HN: This is a really difficult subject to explain. I look back and wonder why I stayed as long as I did. And I have given this a lot of thought, and I am sure there are a lot of scholarly and learned treatises that would explain this phenomena. I have only analyzed this for myself and what I have seen or heard with others.

          I believe there is a “perfect storm” of factors in the RCS, and though I am certain many of these things are not unique to the RCS, I believe its hard to find anything that has ALL of these things acting in concert. And to one degree or another, I believe each of these apply to everyone involved in the RCS (SO, staff and public).

          1. You feel an obligation to not violate your personal integrity by withdrawing allegiance from a group you have committed to. And the flip side of that coin, you are heavily invested in something (whether financially or emotionally or both) and to walk away from it requires admitting you were wrong/stupid/duped.

          2. You don’t want to let others down. People who have relied on you, supported you, looked up to you. You value their friendship and don’t want to upset them.

          3. You believe that to forsake the RCS and Miscavology is to abandon your eternity as there is no other “brand” of Scientology, everything else is pure squirrel suppressiveness which will drive you into a state of black MEST (meanwhile, this is the object of the reverse Scientology being run in the RCS). Even the idea of “abandoning your eternity” is contrary to fundamental Scientology principles – its an impossibility.

          4. You have to walk away from your family, friends or business associates. The level of trauma associated with this depends on the degree of immersion in the “Scientology bubble.” Sea Org members often have to decide to leave a spouse and/or children. They normally have no college degree and no resume and no money. Many public Scientologists also have family who will dicsonnect or they will lose their jobs or their customers.

          5. It is hammered into you that whatever condition you find yourself in — YOU “pulled it in” — whether it is being beaten and tortured or bankrupted by heavy pressure regging. It is always what YOU did and the organization/Miscavige is NEVER wrong. Then to “blow” only proves it further — its YOUR O/Ws. This mindset is cemented with the “sec checking” that has become routine operating procedure in the RCS. Think a critical thought about anything and you will pay (literally or figuratively or both) with a sec check that doesnt conclude until you find some O/W (real or imagined) that makes YOU responsible.

          6. The thought that whatever injustice/abuse/difficulty/hardship you may be experiencing, it is “nothing” in the overall scheme of things. a) You have no doubt experienced worse on the whole track, so why get upset? b) physical pain and duress don’t damage you spiritually so what’s the big deal and c) the biggest one of all “the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” (as long as Dynamic 3 counts as 8 and the other 7 are one each) — “Scientology is expanding and clearing the planet, so there are some outnesses, they are small in comparison to all the good that is being done.”

          7. Finally, I believe the vast majority of Scientologists are optimistic and think to themselves, “tomorrow will be another day and things will be better.” Unreal but true.

          Maybe others have thoughts on this, but that is what I have concluded.

          • Mike, everything you said here is precisely right. Each point is a HUGE topic in itself as far as I’m concerned.
            Additionally, with #6, you are led to believe (in order to justify the insanity) that this is just 3rd dynamic aberration and dramatization, and that it will all go away as we “evolve”…so, you can’t abandon your responsibility for that.
            Nothing justifies committing these actions of outright physical and mental abuse…period.
            This subject is one I am sure we could talk about for a long time.

          • I would add — and this may be a subset of one of the points above — that one has to evaluate past products of his post as to worth/value — and actually decide that someone else can now do that with one’s departure. This is a tough point when one has worked for years on a hat and is very good at it!

            • The Widow Denk – Thank you for that perspective. It’s probably one that was heavy on LRH’s mind when he left. – Carcha.

          • Mike,
            Wow! Thanks for sharing that.
            Truth as-ises lies.
            JM

          • MR: Everything you delineate here seems true to me – both for those in the hole, and those not in the hole, but who still have suffered, or in some way, come to realize that all is very unwell in the Miscavige-regime RCS. For me there was quite a lot of pain in walking away, but I walked away because the present and predicted future pain of staying finally outweighed the pain of leaving. For me it was knowing that my body was going to die 15-30 years younger than necessary – and for what? – to undergo constant police-state conditions, abusive treatment, sleep deprivation, physical pain and discomfort, and the ongoing failed purpose of wanting to practice Scientology as LRH intended it, but instead being forced to squirrel constantly as an imposed operating basis from Miscavige and his hench persons. My experience did not rise (or sink) to the level of the hole, but it certainly was bad enough to drive me out the door and away from everything I had lived and worked for and with for many years. Maybe I would have snapped and left faster if I had been “holed”, but who knows? The “hole” actually was a factor in my leaving, even though I had never been in it, because I perceived its existence from many indicators and decided I would never under any circumstances undergo it, and the only way to make sure of that was to leave.

          • Mike –

            Thanks for posting your analysis. I’m sure you looked at others’ viewpoints too, and you’ve covered most of what I’ve been able to deduce and some I hadn’t considered. My guess is that #3 is most real to paying public. I’m very interested in this line of thought. I’ve been hesitant to ask anyone “What were you thinking?!” for fear of introverting, restimulating charge with a “blanket” question, or evaluating when I myself don’t know the answers.

            Reading over what you wrote another few questions came to mind as obvious:

            1) What was on your mind when you “signed up”, way back when? Just a general free-for-all question covering any number of things – just a general state of mind and viewpoint.

            2) How did things evolve for you, after you joined in? How did your perceptions and conclusions and projections change over the years? (LOL – “Scan through the incident!”) I mean in terms of the juxtapositions of what you originally saw, what you added to that, and against barriers that came up. I believe you’ve already stated the culmination of barriers that tipped things over.

            3) Going back to ealiest, I’m curious as to what your life was like before you ever had contact with Scn? What were your plans or “hoped-fors” then?

            Sorry if I seem like some frustrated auditor or if I’m prying with unwelcome questions. I’ve met some who just came in for auditing and no more, some took a course or two but apparently didn’t see a life as an auditor, some on staff, some staff who just un-persisted at some point usually because promised courses and auditing never materialized and money was too short, and I’ve met some who wanted out and knew it veryu well but put up with it all just long enough to get the auditor and C/S courses.

            If you happen to read this and decide to answer, I’d be very interested in reading.

            Carcha.

          • Thanks, Mike. It is a touchy subject, and I respect everyone who dedicated themselves to the SO and to LRH. I personally got hammered by the CMO and others early in my staff life, so I knew it was not for me. It takes a special person to A. dedicate themselves to the degree you and the team did, and B. put up with the personal hell that comes with it for the greater good.

            Every point above is spot-on. Number 5 above is especially interesting. It took a while for me to get over that. Yes, everyone on this planet “pulled it in.” Yes, we are responsible for our own conditions. However, (and this is the kicker) that does not mean someone like Miscavige has the license to provide you with motivators/karma.

          • Mike, this is totally real to me too – every point you very astutely observed and described was also true at Class V level. Though not in the same league as those described in the ‘hole’, verbal and emotional abuse, coupled with sleep deprivation, long hours, threats and relentless product demand (even in the face of affluence-trending stats) were the hallmark of a particularly notorious CLO ‘ethics’ mission into London org in ’93 or ’94.
            Looking back, one does cringe and wonder about one’s sanity at the time to have endured such torment, stress and grief.
            And each of those 7 factors you described explains exactly why. It also may explain why the perpetrators of such behaviour against others could justify it too – a similar cognizance perhaps?
            I’d also like to add a couple of additional factors that may have been peculiar to me.
            8. You recognize that you are being openly goaded into blowing just to provide those involved with the excuse for declaring you, and so your ser facs come into play with the firm and determined resolution that you will not be acquiescing to their pleasure – no matter how rough it gets.
            9. You mistakenly believe that this is what it means to be in a ‘tough dedicated group’ and that at least you could never be accused of belonging to a bunch of ‘pantie-waiste dilletantes’ who’ll never achieve anything.

            • Blue — Thanks for the confirmation. I think your 8 and 9 are good additions. I know Ser Facs (being Australian….)

              • Ha ha, never knew that about Aussies Mike – thought that was just the French! And good to know I wasn’t the only one!🙂
                This comment of yours has certainly proved emotive (as evidenced by the comments on its re-posting) and I have a couple other points that may have been overlooked and are possibly even more germane.
                6. d) You remind yourself that your purpose for being there is actually very altruistic and that any hardships one endures along the way will never compare to anything LRH had to go through in pursuing this purpose, and so you grin and bear it and accept it as being the nature of the beast, that you are duty-bound, noble etc. Which may well be a valid reason to suffer a bit in the pursuit of a valid and ethical objective. The only thing actually wrong with this equation is that the abuse and hardship is unwarranted and unnecessary.
                The other point I think is even more fundamental and that hits at the very core of our beingness and purpose is one that I read once from a transcript of a PDC lecture, I believe. If you know it please post the reference as it was one of the most amazing things I ever heard when it was first quoted to me. I won’t even attempt to paraphrase it but the essence being that a person is only valuable to the degree he can be or is of service to others and that if you can utterly convince him that he can no longer be so, he will curl up and die.
                (The point at which I left staff was as soon as I cognited that I could no longer be of use to the group and that the group no longer valued me (in my estimation). And that also obviously includes the rather sad and grim conclusion or realization that one has also consequently probably become, to a greater or lesser degree, destructive. In who’s estimation here is obviously debatable!)

    • Neil,

      My solution to that problem is to differentiate beetween the individual and his creations.
      L. Ron Hubbard created Scientology. Those are 2 different things.
      Michael Jackson created Music, Janis Joplin did it as well as Whitney Houston or Jimi Hendrix.
      The personalities of those individuals compared to their creations do not fit at all ! This you can observe by many people that created big things !

    • Thanks to all who responded. Much appreciated.

  50. Apologies. Reply I sent about 10 mins ago, beginning ‘ I am not a scientologist’ had typo in my email address, now corrected below.

  51. Miscavige is hiding (or is that Hiding?) behind LRH and religious robes, not to mention all his shrill minions, and all his attorneys, and all his PI’s.

    The ecclesiastical ploy didn’t work in the Middle Ages, and it hasn’t worked lately for pedophile priests. It won’t work for the posturing little tyrant either. His cheap ploy is already failing in the court of public opinion more with every passing day. It’s time the public courts caught up.

  52. say we stopped agreeing that weak Wilderbeast Miscavige is invincible. I say we all start visualizing him behind bars. This is not Iran, this is not Nazi Germany. This man is a criminal of jghts, vulnerable to the law of the land. He must be taken down in the name of decency. I grant this psychopath no power at all. His time is running out. Class action suit, a big one. TAKE HIM DOWN, this I affirm with no reservation. He is the weakest of men, victimizing children!!!!! Everyone repeat after me. THE TRUTH WILL BE REVEALED DAMN IT. There, that felt good lol. Set them free

  53. It is an ecclesiastical matter under the GAP(Golden Age of Policy), that the beatings will continue until morale improves. No wog authority may intervene.

    • Valkov, I respectfully disagree. The powerful fall. Freedom of religion does not protect criminality. I say we stop considering Miscavige untouchable. Hitler thought he was on top of the world until the world was on top of him. If thousands focus with unconditioned intention, a clear and powerful outcome will be postulated. I for one will daly see him behind bars, for the sake of those in the hole and those whose lives are in tatters.

      • I agree with you Om. My post above was entirely sarcastic. However, if Miscavige was to implement a “Golden Age of Policy”, you can be sure he would slant it in that direction.

    • Valkov

      Maybe this is the formal introduction of “The Golden Age of Spiritual Suppression” (GASP?) Perhaps this is the new release for Ron’s birthday event.

      …Miscavige intones… “I have finally, after many sleepless nights, and endlessly fighting the forces of evil, finally initiated the very program that will ensure the continuation of MY… um… OUR Church’s power to finally deflect any and all attacks against the church and it’s Holy Leader.”…”We are now free to do as we please, under the umbrella of “Ecclesiastic Priviledge”… I give you…..

      “The Golden age of Spiritual Suppression”…. (dumb silence)…

      I know… I know…. it IS that EPIC!……

      You may not fully realize the significance of this statement yet… but you soon will…. Trust me… You soon will……
      ……..

      We must end this insanity….
      Eric S

  54. Thoughtful,
    I respect you, but using the Catholic Church wholesale is a generality. The priests involved in pedophilia was 2% of their priests, which is no different in any other denomination which has had similar problems. It seems like a lot of victim because those priests did it to many kids and over many years. The RCC is just one of the biggest, most visible churches to go after. Fact is school teachers have a higher percentage of sexual abuse. The school districts also transferred such teachers to other districts too before there was more public media exposure of them. That handling was called “passing the trash.” This happens to be something I have researched.

    • That sort of defense of the indefensible “This isnt so bad, just look at what other people do, they’re worse” sounds eerily like an RCS defense of their horrendous human rights abuses. Gag.

    • Scholar, It wasn’t a generality per se but a joke — “Yup Mat, in the Catholic church the ministers go after the little boys. In the Scientology church, the little boy goes after the ministers.” That was humor. However, I don’t believe in passing the trash. I advocate throwing out the trash. The backlash directed at the Catholic Church wasn’t because there were pedophiles, that was horrific, but the real furor was due to their efforts to cover up child sexual abuse instead of exposing the perpetrators and turning them in. They committed the suppressive acts of condoning criminality and now they have to face the music which includes being the international butt of jokes. That’s what happens when one commits overts of such magnitude — one credibility and respect is shot a mortal blow. No different from the Church of Scientology who has also lost all credibility and is also the international butt of jokes.

      If the Catholic Church wants to fix their problem, they can come clean on any other criminality, expose any conspiracy to protect criminals within their ranks, and make amends of a suitable magnitude that is undeniably of benefit to mankind. If they did do all that, they could restore their credibility. Until they do, their management remains a suppressive group.

      The problem isn’t Catholicism. The problem is criminality.

  55. excuse me. Per the definition of clear——-

    a well and happy person. Right?

    Not to degrade anybody on the gains they have gotten. Nor do I degrade the gains I have gotten, I have gotten many gains so much that I able to communicate here, I am per the Church, grade 0 release. Whatever.

    My point is, and my point is, why on earth do we have this battle going on?

    Something must be wrong.

    To tell you the truth. I am a well and happy person right now as I write this. If I remove from my thoughts the battle going on. It is much DEV-T to write this and communicate this what I write. I mean when I view my life without this battle going on, and reading the horror stories, and the no allowed kids in the SO, such an outpoint. And the covert operations of the GO and the Government, and DM and his brutal beatings of others, and so on.

    Why, one has to ask themselves, why is this occurring? why are there maybes on the certainty of the tech now?

    It do no make sense. When I just view it from afar. Something is wrong in the world of scientology. Don’t you think?

  56. That’s a great point, Marty. “Torture, musical chairs, oral toilet cleaning, and public humiliation are all standard practices of the Church of Miscavige and are thus protected by the first amendment.”

    Thanks, Mr. David Miscavige, for point out that you are not a Scientologist.

  57. Priceless:
    “If the Miscavige legal defense held water it would seem priests would be free to go after little boys. I’m not joking.”

  58. “In the Catholic church the ministers go after the little boys. In the Scientology church, the little boy goes after the ministers.”

    I honestly believe this quote is true while the ‘Church’ of Corporate $cientology is under the control of David Miscavige; a.k.a; DM, COB, Davey, Sir Golden Rod, Centurion, ‘Keeper of the Copper Rods, “Applebox”, Tom’s Wife.

    God Bless all of those Auditors that are going to get reamed by David’s little indiscretions, and his heavy hand. God Bless all of the little ‘Church’ goers as well….

    ML ~ TINA RONSON

  59. When all is said and done, there are two sides here.

    If you look at the DM side, you see his support as people on a motivator flow. They are willing to be degraded, humiliated, twisted, keyed into purposes to harm others, bent, destroyed and tortured. DM has surrounded himself by people on a motivator flow. Mistake number one. Dependents.

    If you look at Marty’s side, you see people willing to fight back. People willing to stand up. People that are whole and unbroken. People that have integrity. People that are doing well in life or at least standing on their own two feet. He has attracted survivors. Bright idea number one, survivors. Independents.

    It really is not a mystery how this whole theater will come to an end.

    DM insisted on having people in his space that are on a motivator flow. Even his critics he has attracted complain of how they have been deluded and abused and what victims they have become as a result of his influence.
    Who else would oppose him but a DEPENDENT he has disappointed? Like a child disappointed by a parent.

    This was his own choice. This was his own design to his own end. As a group, they are pulling the sun down on their own universe. It would have happened with, or without Marty, coming up on the other side as a choice.

    He can say to everyone that Marty is the virus that ails him now, but it is his own choice for company he has to live with. He attracted people on a motivator flow.

    Marty, and lot of us on this side will survive with or without him. We are doing it right now. So are many others. I think, we only point out the matter DM has become to salvage any possibilities and not make waste. Otherwise, we are the better for it all and on the winning side of this theater.

    The ones that only here for entertainment, they are fans and will follow the most recent “winner”. Theirs is a very fragile contribution.

    It comes down to those who choose to survive and those who choose to succumb. Clearly, the survivors are in Marty’s court. And clearly, he is a fine example of a survivor in this game.

    There are actually many heroes in this game.

    He can represent all of them. That in itself, is a monumental achievement when you consider he did it all, just being himself.

    I know the lot of you have thrown your power into this court. And I just want to thank you, for being willing to survive. We are the promise here if any is left at all .

  60. Thank you Marty to let us be part of these details – this should be an eye opener for some.

    Its translated and posted on the German blog.

  61. “Supreme Court reaffirmed the prohibition of judicial interference with religious liberties and the power to determine matters of discipline, faith, and internal organization ”

    I think Jonetown, Waco Tx siege etc have shown there are limits to this blind eye of the courts and HUMAN RIGHTS!!!!

  62. “That sort of defense of the indefensible “This isnt so bad, just look at what other people do, they’re worse” sounds eerily like an RCS defense of their horrendous human rights abuses. Gag.” ~ MRinder

    No it’s not a defense of the indefensible. It’s called using specifics and putting it in perspective. The RCC clearly covered it up and mishandled the matter. ( Many were sent to a clinic in the DC area for treatment where they wound up being allowed to read reams of child porn. ) It’s pointing out first, that it’s not a majority of priests which people should know. Second, the comparison to other denominations just puts that offense in perspective, since it’s not just the RCC where it has happened and been covered up. Pedophiles go where they can operate in a position of trust with children.

    “Horrendous human rights abuses” is another generality too. That’s another, very long and involved digression that I don’t care to get into as it’s not the purpose of this thread.

  63. The Catholic Church has been sued for billions and priests are in jail. Class action suite. Why doesn’t everyone who has been abused lawyer up and create a force? Is it that those who are out now have things they would rather not have revealed in court? I’m just amazed that the law is not engaged.

    To those that know, Marty and Mike: is it possible that there is a sting operation ocurring? I can’t accept that with all this info coming out that there isn’t some kind of “gottcha” undercover operation. Just one mole with a hidden camera would do the trick

    @ Bluebonnet “Jrights” was a text hazzard for copy and paste on iphone. Some words were culled and the word should have been “human rights.”

  64. Midget Weasel hammer blows
    With darkened weight of deeds in tow
    Can’t avoid the ledger scale
    Cosmic math can never fail

    Something here in seedly bloom
    Whose sapling rise to sun at noon?
    Sharpen bright integral steel
    And do it for the bridge that’s real!

    For thousands maybe millions wait
    To see the brave desolve this hate
    And fight for Truth larger than self
    For Freedom is our spirit wealth

    We need you now to take this stand
    The Midget’s castle’s only sand.

  65. What I do not understand is that nobody seems to have read some basic LRH’s writing : “An essay on Authoritarianism” from january 1951. It’s just a prophecy of what has been going on with DM and the church. It’s all written down with talent.
    Here is an excerpt:
    “It has been remarked that the ideal of any group are never higher than at the moment of their initial formation. This was before one knew anything about clearing groups. Mest can be controlled by a goup, even a Dianetics group, so long as the control is not of enturbulated MEST, property in question, perverted mores of people, unreasonable prices, war with psychiatry, etc, etc.”
    It just says what it says, doesn’t it?

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