The Aims of Scientology: Part 3

References:

The Aims of Scientology Part 1

The Aims of Scientology Part 2

“SITUATION: Governments hold onto and nurse psychiatry and the mental health movement. Vital tech of Scientology not used by governments yet.
DATA: Psychs can’t deliver yet governments hold on. Psychs just PR without delivery. Government still retains them.
ADMIN WHY: We have not PRed governments properly to make them offload psychs and onload Scientology.
ETHICS WHY: Governments not evaluating and accepting false reports.
IDEAL SCENE: Scientology has replaced psychs in all government zones.”

L. Ron Hubbard – Occupy Territory Eval (now Office of Special Affairs policy)

click here for The full OCCUPY TERRITORY EVAL

106 responses to “The Aims of Scientology: Part 3

  1. The kind of thinking displayed in this “eval” is so monolithically alien and unreal that it’s almost like he thought he was the only person on Earth.

    ADMIN WHY: We have not PRed governments properly to make them offload psychs and onload Scientology.

    He thought he could PR his way into anything. This is probably why he went to war against the US government: They would not accept his PR and they could see through his false claims.

    ETHICS WHY: Governments not evaluating and accepting false reports.

    is so generalized as to be inactionable.

    IDEAL SCENE: Scientology has replaced psychs in all government zones.

    Why did he think that a religion could take over all secular psych services?

    Really. Look at this thinking from outside the Scientology box.

    Picture yourself receiving this at your wog job.

    The guy who wrote it would be fired, if he wasn’t already the boss.

    The only reason I would have accepted anything like this was because when I was first starting out as a Scientologist, I was very young and inexperienced, and I had not dealt with getting things done with groups of people. It is very amusing to think that whole groups of people, dressed up in fake Navy uniforms, took this as a deadly serious activity.

    This type of thinking is the cause of the failure of Scientology. It is not rational or grounded, and does not deal with the real world as it exists.

    Alanzo

    • In one private conversation LRH was having with either ASI people or some Int people, like the LRH PPRO type person conversation, I think it might be LRH with the PR people who then came out with the “Ron’s Series” mags, I remember LRH commenting that the label to describe himself was not really acceptable.

      He threw out the label “civilization changer” as a label that might fit himself.

      Outsiders not Scientologists, like really well educated people would of course laugh at this, them not seeing the evidence of LRH’s impact, simple as that.

      To me, if LRH’s impact is his tech legacy, which I think in his mind, his final Ron’s Journal issues like the one discussing the legacy of the tech, and Clear to Eternity, I judge LRH on that basis ultimately, and then back to his idea that he also floated in Study Tape 9, that his Scientology subject is loose in society, and it will not be lost (another reason I’m against his whole GO phrase that’s still plaguing and causing another reason NOT to take him seriously as he claims of himself and his work) and that his tech will continue to cause reverberations in society from here on.

      It takes a little too long, it so openly fails to define its whole self, neither LRH nor the members are even allowed to detail the procedures of the “upper levels” so the definition publicly of all of Scientology is built in complete and essentially ends up being just the hype about the end results.

      The confidential nature of his final Bridge steps (NOTs is more of OT 3, and Solo NOTS is just more of OT 3 in a higher volume method, and all of OT 3 body thetans exorcism isn’t really included in the open transparent definition which neither LRH nor the members can say to the public to identify what the practice actually is), he just should have thought through, what the world will eventually label him as, based on the effectiveness and actual results of his legacy of his tech. (And today, it seems the freezone Indie Scientology people have been the next closest evolved stage of this subject.)

      In reality, I see the freezone as having shed this Guardian’s Office (GO) era Hubbard required policy, they thankfully don’t engage in it.

      This topic on this blog, again, reminds me that Scientology could very easily exist today without this whole segment of LRH’s writings being used at all.

      It’s a very important issue that Marty’s revealed here.

      Thanks very much for putting this info out! It’s very historically important to get Hubbard’s ideas all laid out.

      It also makes me think of that other issue, that the public Scientologists were always “out of the loop”, but the smarter Scientologists figured this out, just by the behavior of the GO and OSA anyways, and LRH’s other anti psych writings, he was doing it all himself the broad attacking of the pscyh subject and practice. But revealing this issue should be going out to all SCientologists, and those that come to this site, should go back through and read all these revealed writings of LRH’s, to see the behind the scenes.

      • But revealing this issue should be going out to all Scientologists, and those that come to this site, should go back through and read all these revealed writings of LRH’s, to see the behind the scenes.

        This is one of the primary mistakes I saw Jim Logan make in the tome he wrote on how LRH supposedly cancelled disconnection.

        He relied totally on Broad Public Issues, things in the tech vols and OEC vols.

        You can’t understand Scientology by just knowing the tech and OEC vols. You have to also understand these hidden data line issues, such as the GO/OSA Network Orders and LRH Advices, and others.

        There is an overt Scientology and there is a covert Scientology.

        You have to know both to really understand what Scientology was all about.

        But LRH knew that, which is why he made these policies and others that are available elsewhere on the internet covert.

        Marty’s publishing of these covert parts of Scientology are allowing Scientologists, some of them for the first time, the chance to understand what Scientology was really all about.

        Alanzo

    • ETHICS WHY: Governments not evaluating and accepting false reports.

      is so generalized as to be inactionable.

      Yep, as generalised a statement as one would expect from any SP, and also ambiguous, thus requiring dub-in for it to make sense to a Scientologist. It is actually a good thing that government does not evaluate and accept false reports. What L Ron Hubbard meant is that government is not using his criteria for evaluation and, as a result, is accepting false reports. But that’s not what he wrote. Yet, I wonder if, within the cacophony of twisted language which drives Scientology logic, whether the statement is, in fact, quite specific and very actionable. The subtext is that government needs its Ethics put in which, in essence, provides permission for Scientologists to do what it takes to make it go right. I think it was you who pointed out that another of these recent items from Marty forms part of the reason why Scientology is recognised as a nascent totalitarian movement in places like Germany, France, and Russia. This one seems to be another indicator. In fact, “Occupy The Territory” could almost be seen as a declaration of war, which is kinda lulzy since Scientology is all about clearing “this planet” of such things.

      • You people are SO filled with hatred of scientology and apparently many of you of anything LRH as well that your sheer ignorance many a times typecasts you for who you really are – either purely ignorant of anything or SP or both. This PL was obviously written in short form – because LRH has no reason to explain himself with every sentence to staff members who have studied much context of many things before this and fully know what he is talking about. Governments don’t evaluate what the psychs do – all they know is that they can change human behavior with their mind altering drugs, so they often use them for dirty concentration camp endeavors or plants like LH Oswald. Unfortunately, these drugs do not handle the source of the person’s problems and so we have hoards of neurotic and psychotic people unable to work and still miserable. LRH talks on the PDC about how the stats of electro-shocked patients never did ANYTHING for anybody but to fry their nerves and brain so badly that they became permanently disabled, a nervous wreck. Yes, he went through digging up all the records he could find when he had clearance as a doctor to do so and found out, unbelievably that this was the case. He also found out that they would give pre-frontal lobotomies to people who were, for example, just slow and they would make a vegetable out of them. Do you think government CARES about such ethics considerations? It is not their place. They DO care, however, about orgs like the APA, which bring them money.

        What percentage of people are actually helped by psychology or psychiatry? Unbelievably, only about 25%. This figure was quoted to me about 10 years ago by a good friend, a social worker, a non-scientologist. Funny enough, in one of the ACC’s I just studied LRH confirmed about 60 years ago that it was 22%. Scientology has reported that 98% claim scientology helped them. In other ACC’s LRH tells how you can take a bumbling psychotic and turn him into a calm alert person in minutes.

        Which do you think is better for the economy?

        • “This PL was obviously written in short form – because LRH has no reason to explain himself with every sentence to staff members who have studied much context of many things before this and fully know what he is talking about.”

          Actually, I think it would be more correct to say that these are the broad findings and that there are obviously programs and projects that get written which are then broken down to specific, doable targets.

    • Alanzo:

      Let’s not forget that the definition of PR means “to make well-known and thought about”. Of course this would have to be backed up with statistics of our workability. That goes without saying.

      I find this PL intensely interesting because my mind has been on just how we’re going to replace the psychs in the field of mental healing. Anyone who’s had any experience either with standard Scientology or indie must know that our tech is so far superior to the barbarism of Psychiatry that to say It leaves you breathless would be an understatement.

      I’m still on my way to working my way out of the CO$. A guy at the church called me up asking me if they could use the money to send anti psych CD’s to the government. I told him in my 25 years in scientology they’ve been attacking psychs, putting them out of business and they then go back into business again, because there is a vacuum there.

      I think this PL comes at a crucial time when it explains more so than ever before what is going on in our degraded western culture which was hijacked by the Federal Reseserve in 1913 and subsequently we have inreasingly lost more and more freedom, in which Freedom of Speech, especially against the NWO, is punishable by death, if you don’t change with behavior modification torture in Camp FEMA. Andrew Jackson warned that we would lose all our freedom if we ever let a bank take over the Congress.

      The COS also told me how they’ve gotten China to open a church and its only for the chinese government. They’ve also began printing FOT and another basic book for the general public. I think we should more focus on creating the Reformation rather than petty bickering on this blog.

      Thank you so much, Marty, for this PL and epitomizing the true spirit of a Freedom Fighter – “The price of freedom is constant alertness and constant willingness to fight back. There is no other price.” I just adore you!

      Markee Marqui

  2. I have always heard that Scientology is here to “make the able more able”. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a policy or program in use to handle the mentally ill and in fact they have generally refused to service those who have been treated for mental illness , so why on earth would they intend to have Scientology take over that field?

    • Yes, that is a big disconnect. If Ron really wanted to take over mental heath, he would have had to start facilities designed for the mentally ill, which NEVER happened. Knowing what I know now of mentally ill people (and drug addicts, for that matter), there is a LOT of physical issues that need to be addressed over and above any purely spiritual or mental issues.

      And, unfortunately, they are a number of organic reasons for insanity. Once you chop an arm off, the arm does not grow back, and once damage to the brain is done, there is little or no chance for it to get corrected. You can alleviate the ramifications, but not completely reverse it.

      One thing that always fascinated me: Hubbard advocated letting someone who went crazy go to a quiet place and just contemplate the rocks. Feed them well, let them rest, keep them safe from themselves and others (and others from them) and just let them rest. How come this NEVER was implemented in the church? I think a facility such as this would be a very good thing. The church (or Ron) never did it. Interesting.

      Mark

      • Yea, good idea. I mean possibly some top OT Scientologists ought to have realistically attempted some quiet space resorts, or even LRH ought to have a special resort, for mentally ill.

        Money return, viability, I think were on his mind as why not to go that route.

        But possible SOCO ought to have included Scientology sanatoriums somewhat like Narconons, if one takes your question seriously.

        I myself would NOT recommend this though.

        But that is a good questions.

      • Mark,
        Goof observation. It is difficult to be fully recognized, because it is one of the big OMITED scenes of Scientology.

    • Ummmm . . . no.

      As per the L Ron Hubbard Law of Commotion – for every scripture there is an equal and opposite scripture – While Scientology claims to “make the able more able” it also promotes itself as the single mean by which “this planet” can be cleared of war, crime and insanity. True, people who are or have suffered some sort of psychiatric problem are, indeed, considered “illegal PCs”. However, this has never stopped Scientology from promising to heal them and take their money. This has always been the case. One prominent example being Freedom Medal Winner and perverter of justice Jan Eastgate (aka, Janice Meyer). The promises are still being delivered today. Clear evidence of that can be found in the Scientology advertisements appearing in “Craig’s List”. L Ron Hubbard’s general scripture and wider texts are riddled with tales of how Scientology has brought relief to those suffering mental health problems. L Ron Hubbard goes so far as to say, in HCO BULLETIN OF 23 JANUARY 1974RA, ” . . . THIS MEANS THE LAST REASON TO HAVE PSYCHIATRY AROUND IS GONE . . . ”

      ^^^ Caps in original.

      L Ron Hubbard was hyping up what he described as “THE TECHNICAL BREAKTHROUGH OF 1973!” – aka, “The Introspection RD”. It was the application of that “breakthrough” which resulted in the death of Lisa McPherson, and others.

      Its difficult to know whether L Ron Hubbard was actually intending on taking over the field of psychiatry or just using psychiatry. See, every good cult needs an enemy, the stronger and more nebulous the better. Having an enemy helps rally the troops behind a common cause, helps explain why the tech isn’t working, detracts from the behaviour of the leaders, and provides reason why good people can be made to do bad things. On the other hand, L Ron Hubbard had good reason to attack mental health professionals. Shortly after the war, L Ron Hubbard wrote to then VA pleading for help with how own mental health issues but was refused. Psychiatry also dismissed Dianetics and Scientology in the early 1950s when scientific experiments carried out under the aegis of the University of New York debunked both its general claims and the primary basis of its model, the Engram.

      • Crepuscule said:

        “Its difficult to know whether L Ron Hubbard was actually intending on taking over the field of psychiatry or just using psychiatry.”

        Ron wanted to take over the entire planet not just psychiatry. In the Sea Org we use to have a map of the world in the New York Org. We would all look at the map and visualize a Scientology planet. Clearing the planet meant taking over the planet. Actually he wanted to clear the universe. He wanted to control the entire universe!!!

        L Ron Hubbard wanted to take over the world ladies and gentlemen. And you all know that. You all once thought it was possible.

        Infiltrating and stealing power from society’s organizations, mental health only being one of them, was his war strategy for planetary take over.

        Think about that. L Ron Hubbard wanted Scientology to own the planet.

        A few thoughts come to mind regarding this:

        1) This is completely insane and we were part of it.
        2) This is a classic megalomaniacal narcissistic psychological profile

        If Ron got his way, we would be living under an authoritative tyranical system where R2 45 would finally be accepted as a valid method of exteriorization.

          • Just think of a planetary RPF. A gulag thought reform: for the planetary SPs who dare to think unapproved thinking and question Scientology’s absolute control of philosophy and government.

            For the greater good there would be concentration camps. Using standard tech of course.

        • Frightening thoughts. Again, however, I suggest its difficult to know whether L Ron Hubbard really wanted to take over the world or whether he was just using these grand ideas as a distraction from the core fraud. By motivating a sufficient number of people to give their all for so noble a cause as “salvaging this sector of the universe”, L Ron Hubbard removed their attention from the actual day-to-day reality of what they were doing . . . making money, making more money, and making other people produce so as to make more money. Worshipping Mammon.

          As well as manufacturing a dreaful and cunning enemy to rally against on battlefield Earth, L Ron Hubbard also contrived all manner of means to assuage any mental niggles one might have at a personal level. Among the most pernicious was his seemingly logical yet arbitrary “dynamics” with their concomitant mantra “for the greatest good”. Then there’s the whole “eternity” buzz. What’s this lifetime worth in comparision to your previous trillion years and guaranteed return after death, I mean, didn’t your auditing confirm the whole track? Neat, eh? But, as with any clever con, for every “sweet” there is also a “sour” so, yes, there is eternity, but Earth won’t be around for long, this is your last chance, the end is nigh and without more Scientologists the future is mud. Couple those concepts with, say, the tone scale so that everyone around you is happy-happy-joy-joy or – and here’s the sour – its a KR with your name on it and possible RPF time . . . and so it goes on. Disconnection vs love bombing, post hypnotic euphoria vs a lifetime’s savings, cleaning a dumpster with a toothbrush vs playing billiards with planets, your family vs “the whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman, and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology”. Yadda yadda yadda.

          My point is that I doubt L Ron Hubbard was a megalomaniac and I doubt that he was actually insane until, maybe, the last few months. Rather, the facts speak to the simple possibility that L Ron Hubbard was a genius: a criminal genius and master conman. In fact, I believe L Ron Hubbard deserves a place in the annals of history as, perhaps, the most successful criminal of the 20th Century. What’s insane is that he got away with it and that Captain David Miscavige is still getting away with it. But, of course, that it can perpetuate is the genius of it.

          Well, genius or malignancy. Now, some 60 years since the religious cloak was first drawn over the scam, Scientology has become something of a cancer on the body of society. At this stage, we can watch for and, very often, successfully treat the symptoms but the cause, the driving force of Scientology, the searching of spiritual truths by humans, can never really be stymied. Assuming that there is a spiritual world, I believe humans will always reach for it and there will always be Scientology – or something like it – ready and waiting to corrupt that impulse so as to feast on the free will of those drawn to it. In effect, Scientology has become the very thing it warns against: a spiritual trap.

          Rather than some currently in-vogue psychological label, I think a more accurate description of L Ron Hubbard and his Scientology is that rather old fashioned and somewhat dismissed term: Evil.

          TL/DR: L Ron Hubbard wasn’t insane, he was a criminal. He wasn’t a megalomaniac, he was just evil. If there is a spiritual world, Scientology is a deliberately contrived detour into darkness along the natural human path of seeking truth. If there isn’t a spiritual world, Scientology is a brilliant and resilient fraud. Either way: AVOID.

    • Exactly. Which is what I was going to get to last night but I ran out of time. It has always bothered me that the people who need it most can’t get it and why? I still of yet have to hear the New Civilization Course in which is supposed to be about scientology overtaking the field of mental health, so I heard. From listening to 7 1/2 ACC’s, I now see that even in the early days a psych sent a plant to LRH. LRH still does not forbid psych cases auditing however, and still gives many references all along on how they can be helped.

      The modern day church’s policy on it has been that anyone who’s had psych treatment is illegal. One illegal, very smart and successful scientologist told me it was because the church was afraid of lawsuits.

      Okay, so he had to keep petitioning, which might not be considered totally unreasonable for a very able person. But there is a whole nother group of people NOT that able who are completely denied any help at all. Then there is the fact that LRH wanted to keep scientology a private pay enterprise and not accept any government donos cause he didn’t want them telling the church how to run things. Well, I say that since scientology can afford the best lawyers why don’t they have them draft up extremely complicated contracts, showing what scn statistically has and can do, and that they need donations to turn mentally indigent people into calm, productive citizens.

      The agreement being that Scientology is left to run things on their own. Scn has programs for drug abusers and criminals, so why are the mentally disabled completely denied help?

  3. Hi Marty 🙂 —long time no comment from me. No particular reason except that I really need to “digest” the stuff you write, which I am very interested in, and go kind of commentless for a while. But I’m paying attention.

    Hmmm…I don’t remember ever seeing this issue, but it’s OSA so I’m not surprised. But I can see from here that it has a bunch of generalities in it! NO specifics! Maybe this was a cover sheet for the real eval? Wow. And I’m not evaluator trained but I can see this one a mile away.

    True, if the generality of “the government” could see some of the results auditors have created, including myself back in the day, they might appreciate it. But it’s also clear to me that the generality of “the psychs” are not all a bunch of creeps, criminals and evil. One of the things I confronted right off the bat when talking to new non-scn friends was how much psychologists and therapists had helped them or people they knew. In using my auditor skills I listened and acknowledged and genuinely understood that my friends had experienced relief and improvement. Cool. I would’ve been an idiot to invalidate their statements.

    This is indeed a very strange and suppressive little piece of OSA policy!

    • No, they’re not all a bunch of creeps and criminals. Free association was a valid therapy developed by Freud and Ron alludes to that again and again throughout the ACC’s.

  4. Not too swift. Definitely games condition material. It’s funny how side-tracked Ron got on the whole psych thing, and how it still carries through today.

    In 1972, Psychiatry considered homosexuality a disorder. It utilized ECT in barbaric forms. “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Next” was already written and described things pretty well, at least from an institutional perspective. In the ’50s, ice picks were used to perform leucotomies. From Wikipedia:

    “Inspired by the work of Italian psychiatrist Amarro Fiamberti, Freeman at some point conceived of approaching the frontal lobes through the eye sockets instead of through drilled holes in the skull. In 1945 he took an icepick[n 17] from his own kitchen and began testing the idea on grapefruit[n 18] and cadavers. This new “transorbital” lobotomy involved lifting the upper eyelid and placing the point of a thin surgical instrument (often called an orbitoclast or leucotome, although quite different from the wire loop leucotome described above) under the eyelid and against the top of the eyesocket. A mallet was used to drive the orbitoclast through the thin layer of bone and into the brain along the plane of the bridge of the nose, around fifteen degrees toward the interhemispherical fissure. The orbitoclast was malleted five centimeters (2 in) into the frontal lobes, and then pivoted forty degrees at the orbit perforation so the tip cut toward the opposite side of the head (toward the nose). The instrument was returned to the neutral position and sent a further two centimeters (4⁄5 in) into the brain, before being pivoted around twenty-eight degrees each side, to cut outwards and again inwards. (In a more radical variation at the end of the last cut described, the butt of the orbitoclast was forced upwards so the tool cut vertically down the side of the cortex of the interhemispherical fissure; the “Deep frontal cut”.) All cuts were designed to transect the white fibrous matter connecting the cortical tissue of the prefrontal cortex to the thalamus. The leucotome was then withdrawn and the procedure repeated on the other side.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy

    Psychiatry has its own demons.

    But, yes, this program is no good. Better would have been to just stay the cuss out of it and just deliver training and auditing. Major error on Ron’s part, as was the creation of the Sea Org.

    And now, we have the church on a stuck policy – a “held-down 7.” It is that way on a lot of things. And I agree, it needs to stop.

    Mark

  5. In actuality, TV programs use psychologists and psychiatrists on any show to analyze the mind of a serial killer, or a suicide bomber and such. Never ever is Scientolgist looked at as an authority or interviewed. Dr Drew and Dr Phil on the other hand have soaring stats and audiences exponentially increasing by the day, with their common sense approach, light years away from the drugging/ECT image Radical Official scientology spews on all of psychiatry/ps6ychology with venom.

    • There’s a tech lineup for the mentally disburbed person, and that would include ultimately doing OT 3 (and now NOTs and Solo NOTs ultimately if needed).

      I doubt seriously Scientology would publicly ever be able to publicly explain the OT 3 case handling transparently.

      It’s confidential and supposedly detrimental to some to even define it to advertise it, since most people are supposedly mentally unready for it!

      That’s a built in conundrum in the system that is against Scientology.

      This conundrum is a huge elephant always in the room, for Scientology.

      Scientology to claim it is better than current mental and neurological (brain) medical treatment, I think simply has to define why OT 3 is needed to help mentally degraded people, as LRH says:

      page 201 OEC Vol 1, ALTER-IS AND DEGRADED BEINGS,

      “He is sort of a super-continual PTS beyond the reach, really, of a simple S&D and handled only at Section III OT Course.”

      That I take to be the long range case handling of mentally ill, and it’s the long range handling for everyone too. (If not this lifetime, I concluded, then some future lifetime, and immediately thinking this, I doubted and felt constrained in even telling people that this is essentially the long term Scientology way!)

      And thus, as a Scientologist, you end up NOT telling what Scientology offers instead, with which to replace the mental health field.

      But the public will eventually know and already, the OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are more widely discussed in public by non Scientologists.

      I understand that LRH’s Bridge to Total Freedom is the replacement, supposeldy, for psychiatry and psychology.

      Defining LRH’s Bridge, is gonna happen, it is in progress happening. Despite his rules to keep the definition confidential.

      Then the public can judge the upper Bridge’s handling to all humans, versus current university taught psychiatry and neurology.

    • “Never ever is Scientolgist looked at as an authority or interviewed.”

      Perhaps this acceptance of the psychiatrists and psychologists is because it aligns with the existing aberrations of the audience?

      And the scientology view would trigger the minds protective mechanisms.

      Dr Drew is known for his missteps in treating several high profile people and Dr Phil, well he’s entertaining to a certain victim audience.

      The example of TV programs is hardly validation for an anti scientology viewpoint.

      • Hello Eustace:

        You wrote:

        And the scientology view would trigger the minds protective mechanisms.

        What exact protective mechanisms in the mind would trigger on Scientology?

        You were arguing with me yesterday that I made it seem like we had lost all our volition when we became Scientologists. But here you seem to be arguing that the mind itself “protects” itself and rejects Scientology ideas – based not on reason and judgement – but upon some trigger inside the mind that kicks back against Scientology ideas because they are the truth and the implants inside us make us reject the (Scientology) truth because it is the only thing that will “clear” us.

        Did I get that right?

        Because this looks like a major uninspected justification to explain away why Scientology never got accepted by society, but was roundly rejected almost everywhere it has been proposed.

        Could it be that most people reject Scientology because many of its ideas are actually preposterous – like the ideas in this eval?

        Why or why not?

        Alanzo

      • I am quite puzzled that my comparison of Mr. Hubbard to Einstein has not drawn comments, ire, or misduplication. Go figure.

        The auditing techniques that Mr. Hubbard developed from principles that he learned from others and new discoveries is obviously far, far more advanced than anything psychology or psychiatry has to offer. A few corrections and advancements and most everyone would be happy.

        The Church of Scn. is being run by highly intelligent, evil idiots. A lot of good hearted, hard working staff members are PTS to upper mgmt.

        Take the good, discard or correct the bad. The more I continue my own work, and read comments by others, the clearer this becomes.

        When I put up (prepare for storage) green beans, I cut out the bad parts and keep the good. I never got any argument about that. With a little bacon and salt and pepper, they are delicious. Simple.

        Use Sec. Checks to make sh**loads of money and to beat down and leverage a person, VERY BAD. Use Routine 3 to find an emotional block or obsession, VERY GOOD. Wh wh wh wh what’s the problem here?
        Mark

        • For those who missed it, Mark wrote:

          “Einstein cheated on his wife, married his cousin and sowed the seed of the atom bomb which was used to kill thousands, but I will continue to use GPS, DVDs, and modern medical devices.”

          • martyrathbun09

            It is an illogical comparison on many levels.

            • Marty, I wish you would more often point out some of the illogics of the anti-Scientology posts too, which you rarely do but I am sure you see.

              • martyrathbun09

                Marildi, I decline your invitation to continue to attempt to do you thinking for you.

                • That really isn’t my attempt. I can think with many things you say, but I don’t willy-nilly accept all. My point was that I think you have a lot of altitude and people give thought to what you point out, and some just accept it without thinking.

                • Marty
                  I much enjoy reading your posts which are always informative and well written. I would like to see more of your comments which can be more lighthearted and entertaining. I know, you are a very busy guy with some vital work going on. Just wishful thinking on my part.
                  Mark

            • Thank you for your comment Marty.
              Previously:
              “Einstein cheated on his wife, married his cousin and sowed the seed of the atom bomb which was used to kill thousands, but I will continue to use GPS, DVDs, and modern medical devices.”

              This is certainly a loose comparison, admitted. I have learned of Mr. Hubbard’s unsavory traits and have seen some of his technical errors. I have benefited greatly from his and/or his team’s work. The comparison does have some logic, although it may leave a bitter aroma.

              I look at each bit of info in its own time and space. I will give no excuses or promotion for anything I find incorrect. I will offer no apologies or fail to promote anything I find to be true. I have a long way to go.
              Thanks, Mark

              • “Einstein cheated on his wife, married his cousin and sowed the seed of the atom bomb which was used to kill thousands, but I will continue to use GPS, DVDs, and modern medical devices.”

                But did Einstein try to destroy the credibility of his scientific peers ?

                Did Einstein create a group to destroy any scientific competition ?

                Did Einstein claim all of his knowledge was his alone, that he was source of physics ?

                Did Einstein create an intell organization to destroy critics of the “one true only way” scientist ?

                Einstein was a mathematician. His personal life could be considered quite un-influencial in the mathematical equations he mastered.

                Hubbard was a philosopher. With interests in human nature and teaching about human nature and behavior.

                When Einstein fucked up it was about miscalculations of numbers.

                When Hubbard fucked up he gave us Fair Game and Bolivar. These are instructions for human behavior not math. These are instructions that can create aggressive and arrogant people.

                Big difference.

                • Well of course Einstein and LRH were hugely different men. I SAID it was a LOOSE COMPARISON of this ONE key point. A point which has been the center of discussion for months. My youngest brother has some good points and some bad traits. I still like to have a beer with him from time to time.

                  Do Mr. Hubbards gross outpoints dismiss everything else he did.

                  That is the question.

                  My opinion is that his known outpoints should draw closer scrutiny to his work. Discount it completely? No. Makes sense to me.
                  Mark

                  • I agree Mark, if there is truth, there is truth. Find what is true and dump the rest.

                    • Brian
                      Thanks for the acknowledgement.
                      In fact, now that I have a few acks, I must confess I rattled off this communication in the wee hours. I could have chosen better words.
                      I try to get my O/Ws off quickly, even little ones. But the basic point is sound.
                      Mark

                    • Mark, they are not overts and witholds. You were just tired and now you clarified. That’s called honesty.

                      Although I enjoyed Integrity Processing back in the day, there were some things about it, some views imprinted, that I needed to get rid of.

                      The whole doctrine of overts and witholds, although it can be a relief to cop to stuff and then reveal it, is also an introverting doctrine.

                      To default to resolving suffering by looking into ourselves for evil deeds is unhealthy and part of Ron’s thought control.

                      This one doctrine of Overts and Witholds was only revisted and reavaluated by me by being on Marty’s site.

                      That is 31 years of having OW programing, on a very subtle level, going on in the background of my cognitive process.

                      I would suggest anyone do the same. This doctrine, in particular, can be insidious.

                      Always going within and trying to find evil deeds to relieve disharmony can be self destructive.

                      But it did make a good obedient slave in the Church of Lientology.

                      The OW doctrine has been used as an effective psychological weapon to devalue one’s self worth.

                      It is not a healthy doctrine.

                  • christianscientology

                    Makes sense to me also, Mark

          • Thanks Marildi.
            I track back misemotions and confusions back to their source and resolution. I don’t go chasing BTs like I’m swatting flies. Take the good, discard the bad.

            I see no lack of logic in that.

            I have seen several outpoints in my thinking while reading this site over the last months. I traced them back to some surprising decisions in my past. When one of my faults is pointed out, I take a 3rd party perspective and say “HMMMMM, I wonder. I think I’ll take a look at that.” I often thank the person who assisted me. My wife REALLY likes that trait.
            Mark

            • Mark, I’ve witnessed you doing what you described in your last paragraph – in fact, a number of times. I too have benefited from this forum and appreciate the opportunity. I’ve evolved, and integrated, even transcended! At least in some respects.🙂

          • Mark NR wrote:

            “Einstein cheated on his wife, married his cousin and sowed the seed of the atom bomb which was used to kill thousands, but I will continue to use GPS, DVDs, and modern medical devices.”

            First of all, allow me to apologize for my gross professional negligence as a critic of Scientology that I missed your comparison of L Ron Hubbard to Albert Einstein, MarkNR.

            What can I say? The sun was in my eyes, my dog ate my homework, you should have written it in larger text and bolded it – it’s all your fault and none of mine.

            Anyway. Ready?

            Albert Einstein was a scientist who willingly published all of his work so that his critics could examine it, comment on it and tear it to bits if they could. His greatest critics were his best friends. His critics tried – with his full and willing consent – to find holes in his work but decades of scientific experimentation have fully verified almost all of his findings. Einstein dealt in facts, and the tested laws of physics. He is recognized the world over as one of the greatest scientific geniuses – not just of the 20th century – but one of the greatest scientific geniuses to have ever lived.

            By contrast, L Ron Hubbard published some of his work, but none of his “research”. In fact, over the years it has become apparent that Hubbard never did any research for the claims he made for “Clear”, for instance, and most of his claims have been exposed as outright lies which even his staunchest defenders have had to admit. Hubbard hated his critics and wrote policies which said that anyone who would criticize him were criminals with actual crimes in their past, and who should be shuddered into silence with a technique he developed just for them called Fair Game. He never allowed any of his work to be tested by others, and those who did test it against his will found in every case his claims to be false. Hubbard was not a scientist at all, but the founder of Scientology, a religion. He is recognized all over the world as one of the most infamous cult leaders and con men of the 20th century.

            Albert Einstein’s work in physics led to the atomic bomb, yes, but also nuclear power and a new understanding for gravity, time, black holes, and stuff I don’t even understand.

            Hubbard’s work led to what? Claims for “Clear” and “OT” which do not exist, and his work has produced thousands of ruined families through disconnection and ruined careers and lives through fair game. Yes, some people got some wins out of Scn, but when you measure the destruction against the “wins”, those wins are pretty damned expensive. Socially, those wins are a net loss for mankind.

            It is delusional to compare L Ron Hubbard to Albert Einstein in any way. His work, his career, even his personal life.

            Did Albert Einstein ever write anything like Marty published above?

            No. L Ron Hubbard did.

            Nuff said.

            Alanzo

            • Alonzo, Brian, Marty.
              Thanks for the comments. Well written, lots of attention spent. Added humor. I love this site.
              Mark

              PS: As an Elec. Engineer, I am a huge admirer of A. Einstein and I. Newton, who, by the way, was a bit of a nutcase himself. But brilliant and driven. OOps, did I do it again?

        • No problem at all, Mark. Just some good common sense.

      • Voilà! Very well said. Actually, I will give you data in which LRH describes it on the ninth American ACC.

        People do not want to know the truth. There is a young boy and they say, “He’s a boy. He’s a boy. Don’t you know any better than THAT? He’s a boy.” That’s what’s wrong with him, he’s a boy and that’s the truth!

        People don’t want to know the truth about animals. They will accept animals dressed in funny hats and clothing because that’s not the truth!

        People don’t want to hear about exteriorization because that’s the truth; they know that people should be able to operate exterior to their bodies. Exteriorization is a rough topic — people don’t want to hear about it.

        It is possible to disseminate Scientology up to the level of clear — which is high enough for the general populace to bite — witness the explosive sales of Dianetics for many years.

        I talked to some guys at Int a couple years ago they originated to me that the church was working on starting a cable show about Scientology. So, I guess they realize there is a missing element out there on TV but with the stuntment of growth due to DM who knows if they’ll ever get it started.

    • Scientologists are looked upon as authorities to describe the abuse they suffered under David’s command. That is the authority that has been won.

  6. 1) The Psyches were equated in Ron’s world as Xenu supporters.
    2) Ron’s war against the psyches came from OT 3.
    3) Ron saw psychiatry as players in his delusional cosmology of OT 3
    4) Ron convinced Scientologists that his delusions were facts
    5) Ron convinced Scientologists that the world would come to an end and “we may never get another chance” so we need to fight the enemy and crush them so the “only hope for man” could be a bridge for all.

    L Ron Hubbard did an incredible thing. Much like what conquerors do:

    He created the enemy as demons. He created the enemy as evil. He created the enemy as ruthless. And then he convinced you to fight.

    But the enemy he created was birthed out of his own delusional paranoia.

    And he sold it to us. And we bought it.

    There are still people here on this blog that defend Hubbard’s war against himself as externalized onto organizations of authority: for the greatest good

    When you realize that you have been supporting a world view birthed in the spawning grounds of Hubbards own unconscious mind, you will feel great relief.

    But first you will feel outrage, betrayal and maybe grief.

    He dressed up the world, it’s organizations, it’s cultures, it’s religions, it’s sciences and philosophies, with the shadows of himself.

    And made it a high crime to try to inspect these claims.

    And you still defend him.

    So deep…………..is the brainwahing.

    So deep is the feeling of betrayal and denial:

    That you will fight critics of Hubbard with tooth and nail, to protect the image of him that you have constructed, that he intentionally sold you for marketing purposes.

    An image forged by a PR machine and gains had in auditing.

    An image that you will not deconstruct. Because the repercussions of that deconstruction will cause such an inner turmoil of emotional pain.

    What is the mental effect, in our innermost psyche, of having this question asked of you for decade after decade:

    Have you ever had a critical thought of L Ron Hubbard?

    Knowing full well that if you did, it would be ethics, cramming, RPF, loosing family, friends and jobs.

    The very capacity to be critical would be sabotaged. And the demonstration of that sabotage is to attack anyone who is critical of Scientology or L Ron Hubbard. And now David Miscavige.

    Equating intellectual independents with evil is the opposite of freedom.

    Equating intellectual independents with evil is evil itself.

    • Brian.
      This post is one of your best. Thanks.

    • Right Brian. Psychiatry’s hands were clean. Here is a Wiki entry I find relevant. This is what the government and psychiatry were up to back in the day. This may be the real Why government “held on to” psychiatry:

      Project MKUltra is the code name of a U.S. government human research operation experimenting in the behavioral engineering of humans through the CIA’s Scientific Intelligence Division. The CIA project was coordinated with the Special Operations Division of the Army’s Chemical Corps.[1] The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and officially halted in 1973.[2] The program engaged in many illegal activities;[3][4][5] in particular it used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects, which led to controversy regarding its legitimacy.[3](p74)[6][7][8] MKUltra used numerous methodologies to manipulate people’s mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.[9]
      The scope of Project MKUltra was broad, with research undertaken at 80 institutions, including 44 colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons and pharmaceutical companies.[10] The CIA operated through these institutions using front organizations, although sometimes top officials at these institutions were aware of the CIA’s involvement.[11] As the Supreme Court later noted, MKULTRA was:
      concerned with “the research and development of chemical, biological, and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior.” The program consisted of some 149 subprojects which the Agency contracted out to various universities, research foundations, and similar institutions. At least 80 institutions and 185 private researchers participated. Because the Agency funded MKULTRA indirectly, many of the participating individuals were unaware that they were dealing with the Agency.[12]
      Project MKUltra was first brought to public attention in 1975 by the Church Committee of the U.S. Congress, and a Gerald Ford commission to investigate CIA activities within the United States. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MKUltra files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms’ destruction order.[13]
      In 1977, a Freedom of Information Act request uncovered a cache of 20,000 documents relating to project MKUltra, which led to Senate hearings later that same year.[3] In July 2001 some surviving information regarding MKUltra was officially declassified.

      • Never said anything close to “psychiatrists hands were clean.”

        You are making up arguments Valkov.

        • Not exactly Brian. I am trying to point out or at least suggest that in the situations under discussion, often “you can’t tell the players without a scorecard”. I see “the other side” just as or more delusional. I mean really – MKULTRA!!?? That was not LRH’s projection. It really was going on, on college campuses and in other institutions all across the USA and some in Canada. Perhaps LRH decided it would take a well-disciplined fanatic cult to make a dent in the culture that spawned MKULTRA. Notice I am not saying one way or the other whether I think LRH was right about this, whether or not it turned out well, whether or not it was the best approach to the problem, or any of that. Perhaps he deliberately set up something he thought we would eventually turn away from when we saw what it was really like.

        • Sugar was once thought of as energy in the 50s.

          Jack La Lane never cognized sugar growers as three headed monsters from Pluto.

          Cigaret commercials used doctors to promote Lucky Strike.

          Jack La Lane never infiltrated doctors homes and go through their trash to ruin them utterly.

          No doubt society grows as it understands.

          But we are taking about a man who considered psyches BFFs with Xenu.

          That is the issue. Psychiatry today is nothing like the 40s or 50s.

          Look at Scientology. It is worse. Psychiatry is growing with the culture.

          Scientologist still believe in 3 headed monsters from Pluto and will violate the civil rights of citizens to fight off the Plutonian Three Headed Monster psyco drama.

    • You are like a kinder, gentler version of Veda from ESMB. Valiantly fighting against xenu worship at every turn.

      Asserting that the use of a possibly allegorical event as a platform for a procedure, invalidates all else in the technology and philosophy is your theme.

      I am sorry you feel betrayed at having bought into delusional paranoia. I wish there were something I could do for you so that you could let it go after decades.

      You end saying: “Equating intellectual independents with evil is evil itself.”

      “Equating intellectual independents with evil” is thought. Your are fighting others thoughts. In effect using the same tactics as your opponent.

      You don’t want other people to think certain things. It is your right to want that, but you become the same as your enemy to the degree you enforce it.

      • OMG, Eustace, I wish I could articulate my perceptions even a fraction of how well you do.

        Btw, I hope you explain your choice of moniker some time.

        • p.s. You do realize that now we’re never going to hear the end of Xenu rants?😉

        • Eustice Tilley is the cartoon figure head of The New Yorker magazine. It is a pseudonym I have used since my teenage years, the 60’s & 70’s.

          The New Yorker is known for interesting thought, well written.

          Eustice is known only to a few by name.

          I play.
          🙂

          Thank you sincerely for your kind words.

          • Thanks! I knew that “Eustace Tilley” was the cartoon character on the cover of The New Yorker at times, but thought there might be some additional significance to your using it. Just as a playful choice is cool – especially as a teenager! And I guessed you were a writer. Keep writing.🙂

      • Ah, ad hominems!

        They react just like clock work.

        Ding goes the bell, and ladies and gentlemen I present to you:

        The failed reasonable dialog!

        • Ad hominem
          “Personal attacks”
          An ad hominem (Latin for “to the man” or “to the person”), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

          Thus I have been called someone who just wants to:
          1) cave people
          2) a troll
          3) self righteous
          4) Eustace said, “You don’t want other people to think certain things”
          5) a hater
          6) can’t duplicate
          7) can’t spell
          8) I am like Veda ( I have no idea who Veda is) but saying that someone is “just like someone else” is pure passive aggression.

          The capacity to be critical and exchange reasonable dialog is sabotaged by certain Scientology doctrines.

          I find it fascinating and evidence of a kind of shame to call OT 3 an allegory. Independents who still are affected by the brainwashing will justify OT 3 as an allegory because deep inside they know that being in the real world, outside of the mind numbing influence of the church, and believing in Xenu as told by Ron, will quickly put one into the category of cult wacko.

          So the mind jumps through the creative hoops of: Geeze, maybe Ron created an allegory! Yeah that’s it, it’s an allegory!

          Never mind that this “allegory” defined the enemy of Ron’s.

          Never mind that this allegory inspired GO and OSA to commit crimes against our citizenry.

          Never mind that this allegory made Hubbard the only true world savior and dissed all religions in OT 3 materials except for himself and Buddhism (Whom he also claimed to be the founder of)

          Never mind that this allegory defined Scientology’s version of eternal damnation by become the absolute effect of R6 and all the other fairy tales.

          When a true believer tells you that OT 3 was maybe an allegory, what they are saying is:

          1) What Ron said in the materials was incomplete because he never announced OT 3 as allegorical

          2) Ron knew it was allegorical and had some elevated messiah-like-wisdom that he was conveying by not saying it was allegorical

          3) I cannot allow my mind to cognize that Ron had problems mentally. I cannot accept that all psyches are BFFs with Xenu.

          Therefore Ron must have created an allegory.

          In the bubble of the church such heresy will get you eating beans and rice and threats of loosing family, friends and jobs.

          Only someone out of the church would dare say OT 3 is a possible allegory as Eustace has said.

          On the other hand, saying it is an allegory is a step in the right direction. After some years out of the constraints of the self imposed limits of regimented false knowledge and reasoning, the rehabilitated person, freed from the fanciful fears and delusions of one man, will finally be able to see it for what it is.

          Until then……………… it will always be about me, my faults, my misguided intentions.

          But know this, making it about me, is very instructive to those reading this blog.

          Ad Hominems are more revealing about the person who lowers themselves to use it. And reveals a bankruptcy of ideas.

          Ad hominem usually involves attacking the traits of an opponent as a means to invalidate their arguments.

          Scientologists are so well trained in this use of rhetorical weaponry.

          Thank you for demonstrating command of your subject.

          • Brian.
            Excellent comment regarding ‘Ad hominem’ and it’s use in arguments. When facts and logic run short, attack the person. A common practice, often sub-consciously done. Recognizing this during a discussion brings additional truth to light.

            But your other comments show an overly dense forehead, probably caused by your mothers……………Oh, sorry, never mind.
            Mark

            • Ha ha ha ha Mark. Dense forehead, yes, sometimes ha ha.

              And some appreciate my density. Some think I’m a poop head.

              It is a grand thing. Wonderful actually.

              Communicating freely is divine. I am aware of what happens here.

              I don’t mind the personal attacks. When people react with personal attacts they are really showing certain issues with Ron that they have not handled.

              Their minds are still hypnotically being controlled by attack anyone critical of Ron.

              Some people have thought like this for decades.

              It takes time. The education of “attack” is layed in very deep.

              Not so with you Mark.

              People are running out the brainwashing with rants against those critical of Ron.

              It’s a start.

              • Brian:
                “People are running out the brainwashing with rants against those critical of Ron.”
                Mark:
                How astute, observant. This has been right in front of me but I never thought of it.

                As people come up and out, they will go through phases, some more than others. Of course.
                Mark

          • There is no LRH data about any theory or purpose in auditing “an allegory.” Many folks now consider much of The Bible as allegory, but that fact would be “to teach.” There was a purpose to increase reality by auditing imaginary incidents for a bit, but the idea of (subjective) auditing is to handle actual incidents/terminals/charge. The OT3 story would seem to either be true and thus “need auditing on” or NOT be true and thus an imaginary scenario out of LRH’s own case.

          • . . . I find it fascinating and evidence of a kind of shame to call OT 3 an allegory. Independents who still are affected by the brainwashing will justify OT 3 as an allegory because deep inside they know that being in the real world, outside of the mind numbing influence of the church, and believing in Xenu as told by Ron, will quickly put one into the category of cult wacko . . .

            Not really. Rather, referring to Xenu as a metaphor or allegory is a predetermined “acceptable truth” to tell wogs and doubting Scientologists who are less “advanced” because they have not yet attained a sufficient “reality level”. Those who repeat the “aceptable truth” may well believe that they are doing so with the good intention of preventing any “restimulation” or, even worse, the fatal consequences L Ron Hubbard warned about. The telling of this acceptable truth stems from the days when L Ron Hubbard instructed his followers to agree with doubters that the whole spcae opera shebang is fantasy. The actual telling of the metaphor / allegory specifically goes back to when cult apologist J Gordon Melton was first paid to repeat it. Indepedents who repeat it know they are lying.

            Proof that it is a lie comes from Scientology’s Axiom 12:

            The primary condition of any universe is that two spaces, energies or objects must not occupy the same space. When this condition is violated (a perfect duplicate) the apparency of any universe or any part thereof is nulled.

            Get that? It is a Scientology “self apparent truth” that for charge holding an aberration in place to be “blown” the incident which caused that charge must be duplicated. Not only that, the “duplication” must include the exact time, form, place, and event. Therefore, if Xenu is a metaphor / allegory then Scientology’s Axioms must be false. While there are plenty of Scientologists who will apply the metaphor/allegory “acceptable truth” none will accept that the Axioms, the very core of Scientology itself, are fundamentally flawed.

            • Thank you Mister Darkness for that.

              ha

              It’s not a false reasoning.

              It is an outright lie. My my, that’s a surprise! Ron lies?

              I think Scientology is the only “road to truth” that avoids truth, when truth is inconvenient, that I have experienced thus far.

              And it accomplishes another twisted feat:

              sells it’s members that Scientology will make you free, then regiments your thinking into a box. Then it punishes you for thinking thoughts outside that box.

              Then a well indoctrinated Scientologist will comfortably demonize those outside the box. As long as they stay in the suppressed mind fence of the Lientology thought club.

        • A couple other logical fallacies:

          Argument By Fast Talking:
          If you go from one idea to the next quickly enough, the audience won’t have time to think. This is connected to Changing The Subject and (to some audiences) Argument By Personal Charm.

          Argument By Repetition (Argument Ad Nauseam):
          If you say something often enough, some people will begin to believe it. There are some net.kooks who keeping reposting the same articles to Usenet, presumably in hopes it will have that effect.

          http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#repetition

        • My succumbing to temptation. Guilty pleasure. I enjoy the new you. And sincerely mean you no harm.

          As to the rest, your longer reply, old ground. You are welcome to it.

          I abandon reason for beauty, beauty for love, love for forever.

    • Ex-Scientology Dude

      I couldn’t agree more. Well said.

    • Nearly all totalitarian regimes pose to be “forces of good” fighting “forces of evil” while crushing individual rights in the process. “Being good fighting evil” is also what keeps people “plugged in” into the fold as they want to be perceived as “good” and not be associated with “evil on the outside.”

    • How much scientology have you done? Have you done OT III to be able to criticize it first hand?

      Auditing tech is so powerful that the highest level of auditing I had was the Purif and I self audited things and got unbelievable OT abilities from them. You definitely don’t sound like you’ve ever listened to and understood a single ACC in your life. Yeah, Barbara Kaye’s interview probably has a lot of truth to it, but let’s not forget, trained scientologists are a minority and also are amongst the smartest people on the planet. Ron had an ability to see people’s banks and how undo them, which results in true spiritual freedom. The genius of Ron was not conniving in anyway, he wanted to genuinely help people. Most planets do themself in shortly after developing the A-bomb and electronics. I believe we are still here because of scientology. Most geniuses are eccentric – so what do you think the greatest genius to ever walk the planet was like? The bank Barbara saw was probably 2D bank. I would not listen to some two-bit psych major’s evaluation of the greatest mental doctor to ever walk the earth. I greatly encourage you to listen to the ACC’s. Ron explains his quirks and you will understand him like never before.

  7. This is a good write-up but we have to look at why governments support psyches. They actually use psyches because we have definitely been run by the whole communist movement of Russia.

    The goal of government is chaos and long jobs for people “trying to help get rid of the problems” and being able to control, manipulate and dominate.

    Business as usual.

    • What we have to look at is why the government has not shut down Scientology? Any thoughts about that? Some think it is as simple as the “religion card” – government cannot get involved with Church and State. When thousands of stories about abuse, blackmail, extortion, mind control etc is in the media and all over the net – the government should be stepping in and shutting Scientology down. Any thoughts about why it is still allowed to get away with its public crimes? The government is not that stupid to believe Miscavige and Scientology, are they? Or…is it much more sinister than that? Check out “Operation Paperclip” and watch some videos from Cathy O’Brien. I really would love to hear your views everyone – especially yours, Marty! Why is Scientology allowed to harm people daily and the government turns its eyes and states “it is a religion” so we don’t get involved?

  8. Same with me, trying to digest the prior posting and this one.
    I think LRH took the attacks too personally and instead of exchanging ideas, viewpoints, data, information and providing others with his own discoveries, he went into a defense/attack proposition.

    At this point the whole original purpose gets betrayed and goes into this war using the same dirty tricks existent at that time in CIA; i.e. no integrity, but almost like becoming the enemy (a switched valence concept).

    This same eval – 1972 – could have been solve in 1950, or a bit later, by finding out what was needed and wanted by agencies, schools, governments, charitable activities et al and how to exchange with them technologies, organizational systems, plans for the education, etc., so the majority will benefit. But this would have been unacceptable from his viewpoint, or so it seems. A monopoly was being created, so, why share it?

    It called my attention when he mentions: “Note it does not mention religion”
    which does not make sense as Scientology was presented as a Religion. Why to hide it?

  9. Revealing.

  10. I don’t see anything wrong with that policy. Yes it makes a lot of sense to put more rational, educated individual in positions of authority than baby Adolf Hitler’s. But who really does this? Does the Church of Scientology actually do this? No, the do not! So who cares!🙂 I have always thought that if the government were to deliver auditing they would do a much better job of it than the church, because they are more organized people.🙂

  11. This is another of Hubbard’s tantrums.
    He just wants to take over the world and those damn SP governments don’t listen to him.

    Memo to Hubbard:

    Present your “science of the mind” for analysis and research, engage in discussion and cooperate with the University research department or whatever entity accepted that challenge. Submit to the process, like any other scientist would do.

    If and when your science is accepted and integrated into academia you would have given a gift to humanity.

    Thank you.

    • Hubbard considered needing proof an aberration. It is in writting.

      He did not trust doctors or dentists.

      Scientific scrutiny of his version of Scientology by real scientists would have freaked him out.

      Thus “needing proof” is an aberration. Those damn scientists who are seeking verification are aberrated.

      Do you know what does not need proof?

      Faith, beliefs and assumptions.

      But to equate faith, beliefs and assumptions as truth is the state of an immature and undeveloped intellect.

      • In the entreched academia, demanding proof is sometimes a way to fend off new ideas known to be potentially workable.

        • iamvalkov said: “In the entreched academia, demanding proof is sometimes a way to fend off new ideas known to be potentially workable.”

          This sounds like more conspiracy paranoia to me.

        • And in the entrenched world of cults needing proof is bad for business.

          And in the hypnotic world of the cult of personality needing proof makes for a bad hair day: a deconstructed messiah

  12. Ron hated “psychs” because they wanted research-verifiable evidence of the effectiveness of auditing.

    He hated the “government” because it wanted research-verifiable evidence of Hubbard’s wild claims about what auditing would handle — and responded with bans and required disclaimer language from the FDA.

    He also hated the “government” because it was taking some of “his” money via the IRS, so he became a church.

    And there he painted himself stupidly into a corner. Once you are a church, no one — no one! — has to take you seriously if you now turn around and claim a scientific basis when you want to sound authoritative and then duck back behind religion again when anyone challenges your “facts.”

    Hubbard was not entirely wrong about psychiatry and its historical antecedents. Lobotomies were cited above — good example. Mankind has not, in many instances, been very good at understanding mental illness or even mental distress. But Hubbard was wrong in focusing on the worst of psychiatry and overgeneralizing it to all forms of psychotherapy — even when early on he had actually given some credit to Freud and others.

    And Hubbard had infinite blinders on when it came to his own techniques, where he saw only the good, and always relegated problems to “operator error” — failure to apply standard tech standardly, or out ethics, or SP/PTS, etc. Yet if one studies the roster of persons who committed suicide, were injured, died, or went bonkers by means of standard tech, you will find quite a roster.

    The CCHR should be picketing specific misuse of Scientology just as much as protesting specific misuse of psychotherapies, and not overgeneralizing about either.

    But — no one in government will really take CCHR seriously either, at least not for the long run: (a) it is a front group for a religion, and (b) the U.S. Constitution does not allow government and religion to become bedfellows, as a post above pointed out. If Hubbard wanted Scientology to be used by government, he completely shot himself in the foot by becoming a religion, at least as far as government in the U.S. is concerned.

  13. From : OCCUPY TERRITORY EVAL:

    “The message is, they don’t need the stigma of the unpopular psychiatrist when they can have the services of a popular subject that does the job.

    They don’t need to buy the hope or promises of psychiatry as we have already resolved their field and are delivering real mental health daily.

    The idea is to unsell states and financiers on psychiatry and sell them Scientology in its place. (Without betraying our own public.)”

    So Hubbard wanted to sell Scientology to SP Governments and SP Financiers?
    Wasn’t he trying to sell Dianetics to J Edgar Hoover once upon a time? I think I read a letter once.
    Please anyone with data, confirm if this is true or not.

    What it looks to me, is that Hubbard was attempting to position himself like he accused the Psychs/Soviets doing in Psychopolitics.
    Supposedly the Psychs/Soviets were taking control of the heads of states by squirming themselves as therapist to their families and running PDH on them. Just like Miscavige does with Scientology families.
    But with auditing instead of PDH. It works better.

    The more I learn about the Hidden, No Hidden Data Line, the more I realize that I was never really a Dilettante Scientologist, no, no, no. I was a fully homegrown Scientology mushroom, always in the dark and fed a steady diet of dung.

  14. Conan wrote:

    The more I learn about the Hidden, No Hidden Data Line, the more I realize that I was never really a Dilettante Scientologist, no, no, no. I was a fully homegrown Scientology mushroom, always in the dark and fed a steady diet of dung.

    LOL! We all were.

    Except for the guys who worked at INT.

    But I can tell you, there was a time when I would even have swallowed things like this eval. On seeing it, my eyes would have widened, and I would have said “WOW! This is really confront of evil! And this is what it is going to take to handle this planet and this sector of the universe!!”

    But then, after a while – probably after the 2nd or 3rd beating I received – I would have woken up and done the (what’s it called?) Highway 79 Rundown!

    Alanzo

  15. This is absurd! More proof that Hubbard was power hungry and insane.

  16. Unless you have suffered from a break down and recovered, all the jabber is just jabber.

    You haven’t a clue.

    Instead of being simple as pontificated by LRH — it’s VERY complex. There are numerous causes and conditions … not just a lack of confront or the proximity of an “SP” or misdeeds and trespasses.

    And for those who have recovered I would say at the core of the healing is the DEEP LOVE given by a family member or spouse.

    All the rest is just jabber …

    IMHO and from my own place of experience

    • This. ⬆

      I suffer from an illness called depression and treat it with meds, therapy and mindfulness. It is a fulltime job. I would be lost without my meds like my husband without his synthroid. It is the same thing.

      The policy against psychiatric treatment on any level is one of the more insidious things about Scientology. So many people have died by their own hands or at the hands of others as a result of this ridiculous and incomprehensible ban.

      • Trust me, the Church of Scientology has a LONG history of medicating people as a solution. COVERTLY. They are very, very COVERT about it. They have the same method for dealing with people that come unglued, as the psychs.

        Not only with staff, with PUBLIC! I happen to know of an incident where a public that came unglued at Flag was medicated with tranquilizers (covertly) so she could be escorted onto the airplane by the Chaplain at Flag and taken back to her country, and deposited upon her family.

        When you are medicating the customers with out their knowledge that are staying in your hotel, as your solution to a problem, and then offloading them, I don’t think you have the right to attack others for arriving at the same solution.

        I heard stories of other public being medicated too. Many staff.

        Scientologists are made so terrified of drugs, and it is such a taboo, people frequently go with out medicines that they need to keep alive. They are misjudged and harshly judged for experience with drugs. Even expelled. Some staff die very young, in their 50’s or 60’s, from high blood pressure and other common situations. Because if you NEEEEED HEEELP, it is considered a ser fac. Yet the Church tells it’s customers during the entire adventure they NEEEEEED HEEEELP from the Church!
        They are profiting off of other people’s misery. They have thois commonality with psychs and doctors. And when push comes to shove they reach for the medicine cabinet.

        Shouldn’t people be a little saner about drugs? Who the hell wants a root canal without Novocaine? Who the hell wants to break their foot in several different places and lay about in agony? Drugs are like guns. They are not bad in themselves, it is how they are used. If they are used to heal or alleviate suffering they should be used! People that have never been seriously wounded can be judgmental about it all they want.
        When you have a person who can not stay conscious because of pain, it is only MERCY to offer relief.

        They are not illegal. Domestic abuse and domestic terrorism is illegal. Fraud is illegal. Breach of contract. Slavery. Misrepresentation. Tax evasion. Perjury. Filing a false report with a government agency is actually illegal.

        Don’t apologize to anyone for having and making choices to solve your own problems. You live in your life, not some one else.

        Drugs, are not the ROOT of the problem. Sorry, they just are not. Only man can hurt man and put him in pain. Man’s inhumanity to man is the root of the problem. And the Sea Org is all over that.

        If you didn’t have people hurting other people, we wouldn’t have a drug problem in this world.

        • A.B.L.E. states as their goal, “The Association for Better Living and Education (ABLE) has the purpose of reversing the social decay that threatens our societies by resolving the worst problems that plague man today—drugs, crime, illiteracy and immorality”

          Most of the staff are illiterate. They think they are super literate because they know how to use a dictionary. I was using a dictionary when I was seven years old.

          Most of the staff haven’t read a book outside of the Church. I know of one who was comm eved for buying a magazine subscription.

          They commit crimes on a need to commit basis.

          David’s sadism and crimes against his fellow qualify as immoral.

          They drug up their own staff that become inconvenient testimony of their abuse.

          They are not kind group of people and lack mercy in their social intercourse with one another. The potential for abuse is in every waking day.

          The Church WREAKS of social decay at this time.

          They can’t care for one another, love one another, or pledge allegiance to one another. Hell if they feel lust for one another they are condemned. There is a no mercy, it’s everyone for himself, run all over dead bodies. hidden standard.

          All of the issues they pledge to “eradicate” (notice there always has to be a DESTROY button), would not be present in our society of people were only kind to one another.

          The staff are NUMB with abuse and deprivation.

          Every problem the Church has today comes from within and is connected to overt and covert domestic abuse.

          The best thing anyone could do for the staff at the Int Base right now, is to sit them all on a beach for a month, plow them with Martinis until they get up to feeling again with out the help of Vodka.

  17. The targets on these programs all carry the purpose of ethnic cleansing.

    That was considered being “gung ho” at one time. Today it is seen as highly aberrated. Not by Scientologists, by everyone else. It is a purpose to destroy.

    Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity, religion, culture, and history. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.

    Ethnic cleansing is usually accompanied with the efforts to remove physical and cultural evidence of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction of homes, social centers, farms, and infrastructure, and by the desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and places of worship.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

    Groups that align with this were Nazi Germany, religious fanatics.

    Most of the civilized world has risen above the need to destroy others to feel they can survive.

    Live and live, may the best man win, is more of a cheerful outlook.

    • Unfortunate for the few “survivors” left at the Int base, the grown ups have left the building.

      The staff that had to go out and live in the world a little, grew up out there.

    • Oracle, why do you think LRH was in favor of ethnic cleansing?

      • Joe, I am not one of the people that explain “why” when it comes to Hubbard’s mind. But ethnic cleansing seems to flow with enthusiastic religion mates. The Catholics wanted everyone to be Catholic too. Part of surviving as a religious group is “converting” other people. “Be like me” . Parents run it also on their kids.

  18. Ideal Scene: Scientology has replaced psych(iatry’)s/churches/mosques/and synagoges in al govermental zones incl. all cult-uruse and all tribals!

  19. “WE COME BACK!”

    Actually not in this form or function, I pray…………

  20. Marty Rathbun
    I must confess, my comment on Hubbard and Einstein was a not so subtle effort to further discussion about taking the worthwhile part of Scn as opposed to having nothing to do with anything coming from a man like him. A key, central point of many of the discussions on this site. I am, because of my experiences, a bit one sided on this. But, to all those on every side, I do pay attention.
    Mark

  21. Zenu, Zemu, or whatever the pronunciation.

    He was just another sh**head with a lot of money. He was by far, not the first to torture and kill a bunch of people and he sure won’t be the last. How many people on this Earth in the last hundred years alone would have done something similar, having the same technology.

    A week long implant? Please, I’ve delivered and received implants of much longer duration, more cleverly devised.

    Can’t put spirits in cans? Electronic fields which resonate with mental mass (reactive and analytical) and hold it are not that complicated. And where the diary (mind) goes, the being will follow.

    Body Thetans? Just read Dianetics. Once you resolve the reason you are pulling in communication lines with Demons, whether real or imagined, it ceases to be a problem, that is, if it becomes a problem for you at all.

    Once you go over the incident, if you were here at the time, it’s no big deal. Some of the instructions are actually kinda silly, like what a beautiful and safe place this is, and how ugly and dangerous it is out there. If you weren’t here at that time, there are a whole lot of times that are just as ‘captivating’ and really pretty interesting. There have been a lot of a**holes in the past.

    I don’t mean to belittle this area of case. If you’re in it, it is a big deal. Just ask Lisa M. Once you’re past it, it’s laughable.

    And it makes for a good story.

    A.E. Van Vogt was one of my favorite authors. He used whole track incidents from PCs for some of his stories. Of course, it’s how you tell it that makes it good.

    That pretty much covers Zenu.
    Mark

  22. Pingback: The Aims of Scientology: Part 4 | Moving On Up a Little Higher

  23. Pingback: Scientology’s Code of Honor | Moving On Up a Little Higher

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