The cult of Tony Ortega has recently surpassed the church of Scientology in dysfunctionally partisan behavior. I have obtained documentary evidence that Bunkeroos (slavish believers and followers of the word of The Underground Bunker) have been soliciting donations to hire private investigators. The Bunkeroos are promoting the fulfillment of Tony Ortega’s published suggestions on behalf of Ray Jeffrey that the home of Monique Rathbun and her two-year-old child be put under surveillance.
What is so surreal about this situation is that had Monique Rathbun not selflessly endured similar treatment in the past, Tony Ortega and Ray Jeffrey would have long ago become Scientology road kill. The same is true for the cluster of vermin who have partnered in the Ortega/Jeffrey campaign against Monique Rathbun.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Unless you post this supposed secret “proof” you have been made privy you’re just making baseless accusations because no one particular is interested your bizarre paranoid war on Tony Ortega.
I guess getting no interest in your non-trolling posts against Tony means you will try to milk this pointless drama for web hits. This is a sad, disappointing chapter to what had been a inspiring evolution in your life.
In due time. QED: Double-standard cult think. Your leader can backstab people with months of innuendo and unnamed sources. But you give him a pass. I hope you find some caring treatment.
When is due time? Because this is an amazing accusation to make without posting proof. Thank you.
You are right. Stay tuned.
I. for one am interested. Knowing the Rathbuns as I do, and having followed Ortega’s posts concerning them, Mark has just cause, The nasty tone of your attack, and your defense of Ortega, illustrates vividly the “Bunkeroo” mentality he writes about.
If “no one is interested,” why are you reading it?
As I have no leader but myself, I like to reach my own conclusion when I read the blogs; yours, Mr. Rinder’s and Mr. Ortega’s. With all due respect, the timeline of your recent posts and their content have taken a strange turn and while I have no speculation as to your agenda (we all have our own rationale, you included) I do want to say that “due time” is when wild things like this should be posted along with adequate documentation. Otherwise, I’m afraid, they sound very odd to those of us who read the blogs. I’m curious as to why you posted this today as it obviously isn’t “due time” for the facts to accompany it. Just comes off as strange.
Tony Ortega has a subject specific “franchise” to promote, enhance and therefore profit from.
Hit this with a double-barreled shotgun Marty. You are a proven man of honor.
All the best to you and yours.
double standard.
I’m one of “those of us who read the blogs”, and I don’t find it curious at all. Mark stated he has “documentary evidence”, and I’m sure he will reveal it when it is appropriate for him to do so. It is evident that he is not operating on your, or anyone else’s schedule. Demanding that he posts his “proof” with “adequate documentation” on your timeline is somewhat arrogant; and that your judgement that his “posts and content have taken a strange turn”, and “sound very odd” bespeak of a preconception without knowing all the facts involved. Your lack of trust in Mark is evident as is your prosecutorial tone.
I think standards should be upheld by all, my question “I’m curious as to why you posted this today as it obviously isn’t “due time”… Still stands. Two “perceived” wrongs never make a right. Posting speculation without documentation appears to just muddy the waters to me, it’s why I found this post odd. Just my personal opinion.
double standard again
“The Ortega/Jeffrey campaign against Monique Rathbun.”
What campaign? Could you post links or briefly explain?
Why would an Anti-Scientologist Lawyer and an Anti-Scientologist Journalist want to surveil your wife?
A double standard coupled to a cognitive dissonance regarding this matter
An interesting question indeed, and rather a cliff hanger, isn’t it? Why not give Mark the benefit of the doubt, and a modicum of trust, and stay tuned?
Well if the gloves are off I’m throwing my lot in with Marty. Someone pass me a baseball bat and a helmet please.
(When) are we going to get this book that you wrote about in this blog post https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/scientology-armageddon/ ?
“In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas, or values, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing ideas, beliefs or values.”
Thanks Doc but one would have to hold those conflicting beliefs prior to your CD diagnosis. I read the post, wanted to understand so asked a question. I have no “side” or secret agenda but wanted to explain how the post spoke to me. I can see sadly that even when I haven’t speculated it’s not OK to ask a reasonable question. Wishing peace to all.
Fair Game in the Scientology critic world ? No surprise to me- I am glad this stuff is finally being brought out into the open. I am disgusted at the way Monique in particular has been treated.
No need to lecture me on cognitive dissonance, Professor. Mark answered the question in your first post with the words, “double standard” (new information). Instead of attempting to understand and apply to yourself what that meant, you asked the same question again. I suppose the “duck” analogy works with cognitive dissonance as well.
Just as soon as I clear the vermin out of the garage. Patience.
Very odd. I didn’t ask you a question, I didn’t disparage your character. As the one who asked the question, I didn’t find “double standard” an answer. You see, I don’t think reading something on-line, finding it interesting but odd and then asking the person who posted it about it illogical. I didn’t look for answers elsewhere, I asked Mr. Rathbun. Im not a fan of duck or chicken for that matter.
If you haven’t asked as much (in spades and in volume) from the other forums you purport to read, then you are applying a double standard. I suspect you haven’t given your silence about the rest of this post, and your choice to focus on enforcing a double standard instead.
Why would I ask in other forums, I read the information here so I asked you. I do ask questions in other forums and that usually leads to answers. I inflicted no double standard. I do however realize the rules here now, and since conflict isn’t my forte, I’ll go on merry way still thinking it’s odd to post a blog eluding to something dramatic. Clear as mud.
I am shocked to read this. Having no reason to disbelieve you, I would be flabbergasted to know that Ortega would condone this.
But, as I say, I have no reason whatsoever to disbelieve you.
I’ve seen the garbage you’ve taken as Gospel. You have not so acted on the other forums. You’ve applied a double standard, and a cute little pot-kettle legerdermain here. Have a ball with your like-minded krew.
As I have no idea what you take as gospel, you Mr. Rathbun have zero idea what I take as gospel. I think freely and research that which baffles me as your post did today. I didn’t choose to speculate elsewhere, as one who’s followed your story, purchased your books etc. It’s disappointing to see that in lieu of an answer you would choose to disparage a person you know nothing about. This is odd in my eyes. I’m sorry you relied on negation rather than answering my question as to why you posted this now as opposed to “due time” that’s what interested me as there must be a reason for it.
Good bye. I started weeding dishonest people out of my life about three years ago. Your other favorite forums will provide you with the nurture you seek.
“Tony Ortega’s published suggestions on behalf of Ray Jeffrey that the home of Monique Rathbun and her two-year-old child be put under surveillance.”
This is hard to believe.
Could you please provide a link to the article, or post, that states the published suggestions to surveil?
And, please understand I don’t want to argue, I’m not taking sides, not accusing, not suggesting anything, not defending Tony, not attacking anyone, not questioning anyone’s integrity, and not anything else.
I am just asking a question.
Thanks.
Well,well well, as Norton just observed: we got some early 4th of July fireworks. What kind’a bang-bangs are we gonna get on Independence Day?
If Ken Wilbur and other Integral Theory philosophers are right, there exists a series of spiritual stages that all people go through. Very broadly, it starts out with being centered on oneself, then on one’s group, where the “us vs. them” mentality is in play, and then on all mankind. The same stages of awareness also occur with cultures, as can be seen in history.
If it’s true that individuals as well as cultures must go through each stage before their awareness rises to the next level up, then how would others get the Tony Ortegas of the world to advance more quickly from “us. vs. them – or perhaps from even lower down at “numero uno” (where one’s own personal interests are all that matter)? The only way I can see to speed up the process is through education and discussion. So I think it’s good this is happening.
Read their four month series attacking my wife, including all Jeffrey/Ortega (including nameless sources) comments. If you don’t see it, so be it. In either event, I am reporting on Bunkeroos’ analysis of Tony’s communication.
You can’t quote or link to a specific statement of his saying to surveil your family because it only exists in your mind. I suppose all the “Bunkeroos” expressing shock and disbelief regarding your accusations are just putting on a show? You’re embarrassing yourself.
No, Bunkeroo minds, Bunkeroo.
Well yeah! Same here. Hey Sam. ❤
Why am I not surprised?
I thought we were going to rise above things like baseball bats and helmets.
supports my theory that tony sees scientologists AND ex scientologists as little more than leads for stories, freaks
being a journalist puts one of your feet through the door of the cult of personality, gives you the illusion that you’re unique, objective and above it all i imagine
Mark, The reason that I don’t see the four month series of “attacking my wife” because I don’t know where it is. Where is it? I am not trying to argue with you. I am merely asking where is it? I am not taking sides here. I am just asking for references. I want to understand how how anti sciens could be at war with other anti sciens . It seems to me we should be all in the same camp. WTF is going on here?
Please tell me where to look.
Thanks.
A few days ago Tony characterized a mother in Kazakstan as “MEDIAGRABBING” . She wanted to get her daughter back, who was in scientology…
You’d think a supposed journalist might know that is called GLASNOST, screw him, he smells more and more like the controlled opposition. Writing a new history of the alt.scientology.war, that better suits $cientology, than the truth. And propagating a couple of wingnuts as experts in the field..
“The best way to control the opposition is to become it” Lenin
https://arnielerma.wordpress.com/tag/going-clear/
I read the blogs on a haphazard basis (and sometimes comment) , so I feel like I must have missed something. Can somebody please tell me what the heck happened?
If you weren’t affected by it, don’t waste your time.
After spending almost a full year learning about all things Scientology, all I can i do is think about the early posts to the posts of today and there are people who were in Scientology who made major revelations about CoS, he was all about it. But as soon as he learns that you may still believe in some forms Tony wants to discredit you. Marty I have never been in CoS but your struggles with and against the church shouldn’t be thwarted by a Scientology watcher who obviously has his own agenda against religion in general. I think of you and your wife frequently and hope and pray your well. Whatever your going through there are those of us who stand with you!
It’s easy (and fun) to join the war against $cientology…just look at how many comments Tony’s blog gets. But I have had (albeit minimal) personal dealings with him away from his blog, and what Marty says here doesn’t surprise me in the least. Staying tuned.
I am surprised not seeing any reaction from Ortega sofar.
I have never posted a comment before, much less read the comments to Mark Rathbun’s postings. I cannot explain why I am inclined to do so now. Having read the comments already posted, I thought I would give it a shot.
I followed Mr. Ortega’s coverage of Monique Rathbun’s choice to end her litigation. I read his postings once, when they were posted, and never again. While I am reluctant to write about something based upon vague recollections of what they said, I will do so here to make a point.
My recollection of those stories were that the author provided opinions as to why Monique Rathbun was terminating her representation and/or ending her lawsuit. The two that I stuck out in my mind (and this is just my memory, not facts) were that she may be trying to cut her lawyers out of some claim to a settlement in that case or that she is crazy/stupid. I recognize Mr. Ortega would never have used those specific words, but those were the points that ultimately were embedded within my memory. So when responses are given to this posting referring to a double-standard, I must presume that is a reference to the fact that no such calls were made upon Mr. Ortega to produce some documentation to support his speculations regarding Monique Rathbun’s decisions on her case.
Monique Rathbun’s decisions are the business of her and her family, and I have no idea what may have prompted her to take the actions she did. However, if I were to provide my assumption, it would be that she and her family have decided to end that legal battle with the Church of Scientology and move on with their lives. You can read later posts of Jefferson Hawkins and Mark Rathbun and see that both of them have concluded that they do not have much interest in that topic anymore. They have moved on with their lives, which I can only assume was their respective objectives in leaving the Church of Scientology in the first place. You can look at Mark Rathbun’s discussion of the Debbie Cook case, where (again from recollection) he reported that he had advised her to end (in her case, settle) the case and move on with her life.
To me, there was a great deal of information out there to lead one to conclude that Monique Rathbun just wants to move on with her life. At the same time, there was no information out there (at least to my knowledge) to suggest that she is crazy/stupid. Yet, the latter conclusion was one of the two points that stuck in my memory after reading Mr. Ortega’s postings on the matter. Perhaps others had reached the same conclusions I did from reading those postings, but rather than simply take them as I did (i.e., that they are simply one person’s opinion), they decided to go out and hire a private investigator to check and see what’s going on with the Rathbuns (e.g., have they made large deposits in their bank accounts? has she been seeing a psychiatrist? are they in marriage counseling? what gives? In Going Clear, Ortega said this is the most significant case against the church. It can’t just go away like this ).
Clearly, this is rampant speculation on my part, as I do not know the Rathbuns, Mr. Ortega, or (I presume) any of you. Take my statements for what they are – rampant speculation by someone completely uninvolved in the specifics of the subject matter at issue. Indeed, I took that to be Mark Rathbun’s point from the beginning regarding his wife’s litigation decisions.
Oh boy, now Integral Theory Philosophy gets added to the list! (joke!)
You give a good summary which adds to group think and cult mind discussion which I agree is a good thing. The progression (or regression) through me, us, all of us, would apply to many things.
I don’t know any of the people in the Scientology or anti-Scientology communities personally, and have only posted regularly on one blog (Rinder’s) other than the few times I’ve posted here. The people who post there seem to me to be mostly a caring, compassionate group who would like to help others. I am just someone who cares about human rights and freedom, so the topic of groups that impinge upon that is a concern for me. That’s why I get involved. I just want to say that I am sorry to hear that you have encountered difficulties which get in the way of you and your family being able to live your lives in peace. I wish you well and hope things get resolved to your satisfaction so that you and your family can enjoy life and be happy, hopefully in the very near future. and that’s it. Sending good wishes to you and yours, hoping for brighter days. 🙂
“Anybody can become angry – that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way – that is not within everybody’s power and is not easy.” Aristotle
Mark, Monique and Billy have my full support now and into the future as they have had in the past.
Love,
Windhorse
Well I took a gander over at ESMB to see if they had a thread up about this most recent post by Marty. Well….of course they do! Lol… A few posters are actually being quite thoughtful and respectful. And then there’s Bunny Skull diagnosing Marty with a mental illness, which is perfectly in keeping with her style. Are you a psychotherapist Bunny? No? Then keep your damn “professional” diagnoses to yourself. But you won’t cuz’ you like to hear yourself pontificate. Don’t you.
Oh well…what can you do with someone like that? Perhaps I’m mentally ill for asking. Lol…. Or for even posting on this blog.
Anyway….I dedicate this little number sung by a couple of my favorite gals to all y’all in the “Watcher Community”, including Bunny, on this 4th of July weekend…
The Bunker has a search feature, but here….I did the work fer ya….this’ll give ya a start….
http://tonyortega.org/?s=monique&submit.x=0&submit.y=0
Hi, Richard. Here’s an introduction for you:
Marty, There are people who breath every day along the purpose line of setting other people up for losses. It is a purpose. They dedicate their lives to setting other people up for losses. We live in the age of confusion. People love their enemies, hate their friends. This is not a reflection on you or me. It is not that we failed anyone. It is not that the truth is not the truth. It is just cross town traffic. There are people who can not sleep at night unless they have set someone up for a loss. The facts are irrelevant, the truth is irreverent. Whatever you say or do, will be twisted to set someone or everyone up for a loss. Let them have that. Let them have losing. Let them have setting others up for losses too. Let them have treason. Let them have sadism. They them have. Let them have it. It is as important to them as you having an ice cream cone you see being sold on the corner. It is not possible always to understand the wants and needs of others. You don’t need to. Really. Stand back, let them go in the direction they need to. Please do not permit yourself to be taxed in this way. I know it is hard when you care. But your care factor has zero value in many situations. When you find you can not “win” when you have tried in every way, it is not possible. Many things are not possible. If you think it is, someone put unattainable goals in front of you. Many people do not want the truth, or justice, or fairness, they do not want to see you win. You can see it every comment that slanders and degrades you. Those people do very much want you to lose. And they will only contribute to energy that sets you up for a loss. Whatever attitudes we have about it, do not matter. Call it evil, negative, unholy whatever. In the end the attitudes do little to alleviate the the purposes. So it does not matter. You can never win with some people, they will not give you that. Because the purpose is to set you up for losses. Let them have it. It costs nothing but their karma. They have to pay that tax at the end of the day, not you. The truth is, you have nothing to lose by granting them roadway. At the end of the day, they set themselves up for losses. • There are 360,000 births per day. 15,000 births each hour. 250 births each minute. There is the promise. Only 6,316 people die each hour. That is the “glory” of the people who set others up for losses. The Grimm reapers. They are outnumbered. There is more hope than despair.You have a valid place that has value. It is just with the people looking to gain, who set others up for wins. Let the others go and do as they must. There is good reason why they are programmed to head south and take others with them. There is rightness in their path. I know it is not easy to understand. You have to trust this universe is a friend. It is right that they tumble south. Stand away from them, get out of their way. They are going in the right direction. This is not injustice or confusion. It is natural justice.
Bizarre paranoid war on Tony Ortega? You are wallowing in injustice. Wrong items, wrong indications. You have a purpose to make people think they are crazy, when they confront the truth. You are the carrier of injustice and the madness that tries the sanity of your fellow man. If you cared enough about your fellow man, you would have walked the distance needed to find out what a loose cannon you are. You did not care, you do not care, even about Tony Ortega. Because contributing to his lies, does him no favor. At the end of the day, you are a liability to everyone because you just didn’t care enough. And in that way, you contribute to the misery of mankind. You have a false value here pretending to be anyone’s friend.
Why do you expect it is someone’s duty to educate you? Educate yourself. Go read both blogs. Marty is not a politician trying to win votes. Tony originated this! He is the one that made a big issue! He is the one that supplied testimony that Monique was mentally deficient, that Marty possible ripped off his lawyers, and he spoon fed his followers this until it was lodged int their thinking. And then he coyly posted, “many of our readers assumed”…. No they did not “assume”. They were fkn brainwashed. This is a copy of an email I received names crossed out, by one of his gullible:
On 4/28/2016 10:15 PM, XXXX XXXXX wrote:
Did you read on Tony O’s site about Monique dropping the suit and trashing her lawyers?
This is just when they were winning.
I think the church got to them and made a secret deal and included a demand that they fire the lawyers and trash talk them. And the verbiage used is Marty to a tee. Monique never talked like that…. “inimitable”
I think when the church sees they are losing, they hurry up and settle and then put gag orders as part of the settlement. And in this case pout in a demand that they fire the attorneys and issue derogatory statements about them. This is so that others will think hard before taking on a case against Scn.
What do you think happened and why Mosey withdrew, fired them, and nattered about them?
XXXXX
Tony covertly fair gamed these people over and over and over. Why are some people here commenting like Marty laid this down? Can’t you spot source? DUH???????????
Marty is RESPONDING to these accusations and it is his DUTY to protect his wife and child! And there are people here knocking him the dirt for that? What the FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? Tony has no one under his care to protect or defend except a dog and some plants. Keep it real people. Seriously do you have to be so BLIND? You are blind enough to be headed south anyway. Aren’t some of you all in over kill?
The shameless blindness and stupidity…like you are doll babies and Tony is playing house with y’all. And you all are over there in some new kind of group hypnosis and Tony is leading you somewhere. The WILLFUL unconsciousness is staggering!
You are collateral damage EVERYWHERE because that is your purpose. If L. Ron Hubbard didn’t give a full ticket, you float to Tony Ortega to really make an ass out of you. Fkn Masochists! When you take a break from being sadists. Fkn lice even if you had gotten involved with Hare Krishna! Someone should tell you.
When I left Scientology, I still cared about EVERYBODY. I still loved EVERYBODY. I did not discount the value of ANYBODY. I opened my heart all the way truthfully to EVERYBODY. And I was fair gamed out here every which way but loose for being HONEST and keeping my heart on the table. Let me tell you, I have been fair gamed in the last two months, I used to always know it was OSA. Now I have NO IDEA where it is coming from! I have been hit worse by anti Scientologists than I ever was from OSA! There is NO EXCUSE for being MEAN mother fuckers! That is on you. mean spirited is on YOU. You mock that stuff up. Nobody is blaming that on Hubbard or Ortega. The “Golden Rule”, treat others as you would want to be treated yourself, is simple social policy that has been around for over 2000 years. 2000 years and some people still can not think with that. WTF? what the fuck happened to you to be so damned dense that you can not follow a simple rule that is 2000 years old? So, why would you be able to think with other advice? Whether it is Scientology, or Tony Orega, or anyone else? Forget Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard!!!!!!!!!!! Go back to earlier, could you get with that? Hell no! So what the fk are you complaining about if you can not think with something that has been around for over 2000 years? That you can not think with something that has been around for 50 years? Why the fk would you anyway? So what is your point? You couldn’t think biblical or anything after that?
Yes, let’s trust the voices in his head
Marty went nuts
Be oblivious because it works for you. Are you in “must be contributed to” as in Marty has to win your vote by doing research and posting links? If you were really interested wouldn’t you go look at the other blog? Why must Marty provide for you? Do you think he is in the 2016 presidential election? No, it doesn’t only exist in his mind. That you are here trying to convince another human being that he is hallucinatory when he is not makes you fkn evil. Mind fucking. Someone should tell you. That is mean my friend. That is straight up black magic.It is not wrong for me to tell you. You are coming from the dark side and we are entering an age, way beyond Scientology, where this kind of negative social intercourse is recognized for what it is. And people like you, recognized for what you are. You are an embarrassment to mankind. It is 2016 and you have not evolved. Your social intercourse is in the mind set of a 1916 social bitchy debutante. Here, this one is you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh9obyinHGs
Pre empted by On 4/28/2016 10:15 PM, XXXXX XXXXX wrote:
Did you read on Tony O’s site about Monique dropping the suit and trashing her lawyers?
Some back lines emails: XXXXX XXXXX
To XXXXX XXXXXX
BCC XXXXXXXXX XXXXXX@yahoo.com Apr 29 at 9:16 AM
Yes they have suffered at the hands of DM and the church, and they deserve a pay out settlement. No one disputes that. But to cut your lawyers out of their pay after they worked hard for you for three years or more and you were actually winning???? This is horrible. And to then talk smack about them when they were actually winning????? That is betrayal beyond the beyond. My guess is that as childish and perverse as DM is, my guess is that he made that part of the agreement (that they trash talk the lawyers), as well as the gag order in order for them to collect. It would be interesting to put our own PI’s on them to see if they buy new cars, move to a nicer house/neighborhood, go on a vacation, in other words, evidence of money newly acquired. Marty doesn’t have a job that we know of. And Mosey was working as a nurse, but who knows if she gave that up when the kid came along?
I still think they could have settled and not cut out the lawyers and trash talked them.
The lawyers are a class act because they didn’t respond in kind and took the high road instead, in spite of the huge betrayal that Marty did to them.
When you read the court papers, filed by Mosey herself with no lawyer, it is obvious that Marty wrote it. He loves using big $10 words and it is littered with that. Mosey doesn’t speak like that but Marty does. He wrote that. I can’t believe he would play into DM’s hands and do all the bad stipulations of the settlement that DM asked for.
By trash talking the lawyers, DM hopes that other lawyers will take note of this and decide not to sue the C of S any time in the future. And by doing a secret settlement, it doesn’t show on public record that it was settled, again this is in DM’s favor. Marty could have refused to agree to DM’s terms and then had his lawyers work a smaller settlement anyway, one where everyone gets paid and the settlement went on record to besmirch the church and to act as a precedence in future cases.
Oh, and now the restraining order on the Private Eyes the church used on Marty is taken off and they are free to spy and harass him again or anyone for that matter.
It is horrible that DM uses the money he fleeced from his flock to manipulate and control and win everything. It makes it hard to win anything against him. When does DM get what he deserves? When does justice prevail? Maybe not even this lifetime. Maybe we have to wait until he reincarnates as a cock roach and gets stepped on to get any sort of satisfaction. Meanwhile Disconnection continues, suicides continue, people declaring bankruptcy continues, beatings and lock ups at Int continue, and new, innocent young recruits from other countries who want to come to America for a better life are recruited to work as slave labor in DM’s “church.” That’s some great life you came to America for.
I’m very disappointed in Marty and Mosey. He could have still settled for millions but in the process he could have done right by his lawyers and had the settlement show on public records, which would have hurt DM and helped he cause.
XXXXX
XXXXX
On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 1:15 AM, XXX wrote:
I think she and Marty got money motivated and decided to take the offer, whatever it was. I bet Jeffrey feels so betrayed and let down. He worked hard for them. But he gets that the church is demanding that M and M talk smack about the lawyers ‘cuz DM gets his rocks off that way.
Kinda sucks that they compromised their integrity, but then again, they suffered a lot at the hands of the church. And whatever millions DM gives to them is money he isn’t using to harass someone else.
XXX
So, hey, you have questions? Go ask Tony Ortega. He is the one that put this down. This originated from him. He is the one that alluded to this. Nobody is hallucinatory, it is right there on his very public blog. This is HIS baby, Marty is only acknowledging the accusations.
Not too long ago, an entire thread was dedicated to uploading photos of Monique’s home on the Internet and slandering Marty and Monique. Knowing those people had a young child in the home, and religious fanatics were targeting Marty. Not one consideration was given to their child and his security. Not ONE ounce of consideration for that child’s welfare. Basically, setting that little kid as a target. I looked on that forum today and saw someone post: “As far as I can see, no one of us has attacked his family” What oblivious, irresponsible person can say that with a conscious? This is a letter I sent these to a person connected somewhat with that forum:
Hi XXXXXXXX,
I am writing to you because I know you are a parent, so I think you will understand.
I don’t know what your relationship is with XXXXXX these days and it is none of my business. But I thought you may still have the ways and means to help correct something on the forum. Perhaps if you have a line in with the moderator.
As you know very well, there are religious fanatics in the wind, that have been programmed to harm, attack, and suppress their fellow man. Some of these people, as you have witnessed, are perfectly willing do insane things, “for the cause”.
Monique has a baby to protect against the back drop of ill will imposed on them.
Photos of her home and her location have been splatted on the XXXXXX forum. Without any regard for that baby’s security.
What are they supposed to do, pay for round the clock body guards? Move again? Apparently, when the OSA squad is not stalking them and fair gaming them, someone posting on XXXXXX is.
I know we have had disagreements and I am not moaning about the hazings I get there. But this is a whole new XXXXXX, where fair gaming and putting a child in danger, doesn’t seem to be of any concern. This is really fresh for XXXXXX.
If there is anything you could do or say, to get the photo of their home removed, it would be in the best interest of the child’s, and parents, security.
Thank you in advance, for helping to remedy this situation, if there is anything you can do about it.
Warm regards,
XXXXXX
I don’t mean to imply that whoever is running or managing XXXXX, is not doing a good job. I can’t imagine what it is like to run a forum like that 24/7 and try to stay on top of every post.
I have been protected by you, and others, and I did see that. And I truly am grateful.
I just happen to believe that mankind can be trusted with justice.
I hope someday you will be able to accept my apology for being pigheaded and pro testy. There were times when you were right, and I was wrong.
I have been wrong more often than you will ever know. I’m just, human. And non skilled in social intercourse compared to an ideal scene.
But I do care about children, and not bringing them into this war as casualties. I am certain I can stand up for that, and be right in that. Because, I was used and harmed that way. So, I think I have that part right.
Life is short, love is eternal.
I really do have the utmost respect and admiration for you, for putting yourself on the front lines in this theater. You caused me to have many great conversations, that would not have been possible, otherwise.
I was wrong to discount your value in any way. That was some kind of injustice. I truly do regret that I did that. It was not right. I am sorry for the “me” that was there at that time. I am sorry for all of the times I have been stupid.
People tend to over estimate me. I had to rise up from an impossible situation. I am very. very flawed.I have no credentials except surviving. If you can see me as I truly am, you will not be offended by me.
But this thing about setting children up for losses, I know about that. And I am not guilty of that kind of injustice.
This is true. I think I am right about that.
Love, XXXXXX
The internet forums are entertainment. You all think this was funny to set this kid up like this was a night’s entertainment?
Let me tell you. L. on Hubbard did not make you this way. Tony Ortega did not make you this way. Scientology did not make you this way. Your mother and father did not make you this way. You mock yourself up in this ugly twisted sadistic way. And this is your creation. Step out of the Scientology /anti Scientology arena. This has nothing to do with that. It has to do with you NOT CARING. Wallowing in sadism at someone else’s expense. And someone should really tell you, it is ugly. As a member of the human race, you are not a credit here no matter what fkn blog you post on.
The truth is, some of you people that started out protesting about abuse in the C of S, and God knows it is sick and sadistic, you have surpassed them in deliberate evil.
Or, deliberate cruelty.
Appreciate your contribution. Not really a ‘rampant speculation’, but rather an objective deduction it is.
So, don’t parade on some of these blogs / forums like you have higher standards. You do not. In fact,, you have lower standards for social intercourse. The abuse and fair gaming has gotten so bad when I am attacked now I do not know where it is coming from, and the last people I suspect are OSA. I got stuck in South America because someone hacked my email address and I had to close all of my accounts. I was already outed on the Internet not by OSA, but by someone from the Ortega ethnic cleansing tribe. And before that, two people on another forum. I don’t even look at OSA now when I am fair gamed! That is what menacing particles you have made of yourselves. You are not believable anymore! Fkn juvenile delinquents. There are higher powers than the C of S, or the Internet. Most are so oblivious you don’t even know. You carve your own future every time you harm attack and suppress someone else. This is biblical information 2000 years old that still has not sunk in!!!!!!!! You think this is someone else’s fault?
Reap what you sow. Where did all of these suicidal mther fkers come from? Complaining that nobody saved their ass? WTF? For real.
May all the Saints, get back to heaven.
Thank you for your response. In my opinion, I am engaging in rampant speculation about some individual’s reason for hiring a private investigator, because I am basing it on several assumptions (e.g., one was in fact hired, and for that specific purpose, by an individual who follows mr. Ortega’s website, and for those reasons I suggested). I can’t say any of those things are true; rather, I can only say what I read on this website and mr. Ortega’s website. You and I may attribute different meanings to the term objective deduction. Or it may be that I do not like to share my conclusions in a public forum like this when I don’t know with certainty what the facts are.
just ordered big truck, full of popcorn’s…..
Big hello from LRHs Bulgravia.
I have been keeping my silence on the issue, as I believe the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I too have seen some strange behavior from the bunker. It indicates that there might be some hidden agenda there.
As for the Ruthbans’s it is my firm opinion that there must have been a solid reason for them to drop the case. For example, if it was hurting their relationship, then it was their duty to drop the case (I am not stating that to be the reason).
Tony Ortega did not behave as a friend on that issue.
And may the Devil take the hindmost. 🙂
Seriously, I just don’t think “baseball bats and helmets” communicates the best attitude or approach in this case, although it might in some situations.
Oracle,
The actual sequence of events was that a public court document was released that had Monique Rathbun’s home address listed. A commenter posted a google Earth view of that address. Any person with access to Google Earth could easily have done this. The mistake (if there was one) was on the part of Monique who should probably have not used her home address in her court filing.
So the question really is, should Ortega have redacted that part of the public document, not revealing the address? Not sure what the journalism ethics are here or whether Monique requested that Tony redact that information. I am sure that OSA had all that info well in advance of any Bunker posting.
The warrior knows that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But when you sleep with dogs, you might wake up with fleas. Sometimes it take a while to steer a new course but the effort is well worth it. Leaving scientology and those who make a living off of it in your life’s wake can be hard and take time, but it is worth the effort. Keep steering east , Marty. Your almost there. It would have been an easier journey if you had just taken it for yourself. but you were big enough and kind enough to bring a boatload of grateful folks along with you. Thanks. Happy of 4th of July.
Well, Miraldi, on an earlier topic you brought up the subject of nondualism and got me interested. I delved into it for one month and duplicated that subject and arrived at a complete and total understanding of life and living. Now you toss out a new subject or philosophy and here goes another month of study! (joking, of course)
I haven’t looked at the video yet (dare I?) but actually, your brief summary got me thinking and I spotted at least one fixed opinion of my own which needs examining. A real life example (not mine) might be those people who are adamant, almost religious, about smoking. They might say “Smoking causes illness and makes my insurance premiums go up.” Well, so does obesity, alcholism etc. etc. (smile)
Marty,
You were the head of the legal department for the Co$, so you must know the definition of hearsay.
Is that email to Oracle the ‘documented proof’ you were going to provide ‘in due time’?
Because that email isn’t just hearsay…..it’s hearsay’s third cousin once removed.
Besides, hiring a PI to follow you around would be kind of silly. I would just hire a forensic accountant if I was interested in finding out information on someone.
(It’s not like you are going to drive around town in a giant yelllow Hummer, a la the pill dealer in ‘Better Call Saul’……..)
And, so we are 100% clear……I am not having you followed, I have not hired anyone to research your finances, I have not asked anyone to donate money to accomplish this.
But while I am on that subject, I don’t think anyone has done anything like this (maybe the Co$ has, but that is a different story). The email Oracle received said it would be ‘interesting’ to have you followed. (BTW…. I disagree…. I don’t think it would be interesting).
I think it would be much more interesting to hire PIs to find Shelly Miscavige…. It doesn’t mean I am going to do it though….
marildi, taken here as “going to bat for”
Scientology Floggers
Eileen, I think the real issue is, what kind of information a person chooses to promote and forward. That is an obvious issue on the Internet, across the board. It seems to me that how a person handles information pretty much illustrates that person’s level of ethics and conscience, and possibly their intentions, too. As an analogy, it is a journalistic principle that news media do not publish the names and photos of rape victims. \Just because something is available in a court document doesn’t mean it is a good idea to publish it broadly or expand on it.
If journalism had anything to do with this or him.
I think Integral and Nonduality overlap and complement each other. Yes, dare to watch the video. 🙂
Oh, okay. Thanks for clarifying, Tara. That comes across much better.
Right Eileen, It is Monique’s fault, that fair game thread that went on, on a forum? She dared to have a home address, or a life. This was required for legal reasons. It was not that “someone” uploaded a photo. The purpose was to out, set up them up as targets, slander, shame, degrade humiliate etc etc and the thread went on and on as people wallowed in sadism and deliberate cruelty. Masochism is not a wide step from Sadism. That is why people that carry on that way within arms length of others, usually get curb stomped. By the unwitting that get sucked into their violent motivator flows. Well, everyone who reads ESMB knows who I am now (thanks). They know who Monique is and where she lives. But who is ESMB? Who is hosting these parties? Who are the movers and shakers there, and what are their home address’? I use ethics in reverse and sideways too. In addition to finding out who I really am, I like to know who THEY really are too. It is not just a “commenter”, it is a tribe. As far as I know Ann Lowe has never been involved in Scientology, and she manages (and bans) and is the hostess of that forum. Correct me if I am wrong. I am only going off of what I find when I Google. But since we are rounding the corner of “Truth revealed”, isn’t it fair to know who your attackers are? Who is sponsoring you to be set up as a target, and your kid too?
https://mcbridekatherine.wordpress.com/category/mary-mcconnell/
Now, everyone who contributed to that thread, should have the decency to present themselves here, and provide their real names, and home address’. That is fair play. We should be allowed to upload photos of their home, and make it broad and open knowledge. exactly where they live so they can be contacted directly by anyone who has issues to resolve with them. Let’s all play with the same rules and disadvantages.
Right Marty. It’s a question that is being asked about much of the news media these days. The election year has put the media in a spotlight. Who, where, are the journalists with integrity? Tony is a “pundit” or “journalist” along the lines of O’reilly, Hannity et al. “Straight talk, pulls no punches”, etc. Those are the lines we’re fed.
Sly Fox
No, I just tossed that email out there. Even I rec’d an email suggesting we hire a P.I. to follow Marty! Laughter!
mr. obert, Funny how nobody has even considered the fact that after Mrs. Rathbun saw photos of her front lawn posted all over ESMB, maybe she decided to withdraw her lawsuit for security reasons . They do have a child . Although SOME OTHERS seem oblivious to the well being of someone else’s child, and have no problem violating other women by putting their children at risk as targets,it is not something the Rathbun’s can tuck behind their consciousness. This was also done to children on the Bunker blog, their location published and these were children of a millionaire. Causing out security for children open to kidnappers and hostage takers. I do not believe that roll like this, actually have the ability to care about others. So their platform for protesting against abuse. is a platform they stand to actually abuse.
Hi Oracle,
I’m glad to hear that the email was not the ‘documented proof’ of solicitation of funds to hire a PI. Because that would have been scraping the bottom of the barrel of desperation.
I guess those that care will continue to wait for the proof.
Those that don’t will post elsewhere.
Oh, I am sure he is way too busy. Mr. Ortega is a documentary film maker! Apparently Entertainment Tonight has been informed that Mr. Ortega worked on the documentary, “Going Clear”.! That is in addition to his “Scientology news” blog, and his “Scientology expert” status which he is called upon frequently as the “Scientology whisperer”.
Basically I trust mark’s integrity. He is a man who has helped a lot of people. He and his family does not deserve this treatment nor abuse. I don’t post very often but I am sure many feel the same way. Honestly I have found the coverage on ortega’s blog regarding dropping the lawsuit to be quite objectionable. The reasons for having dropped it are no one’s business and the rampant speculation was shameful.
Miraldi, please see below
P.S. I was going to post a comment about nondualism, but I see that on topic comments are still coming in so I’ll wait till later. If you look back, fine. If not, that’s ok too. I find that writing down my thoughts allows me to move on (up a little higher), sort of like using Mark’s blog as a diary. Thanks, Mark
Because once Monique was able to get a TRO on the Church,, and get OSA off her front porch, guess who showed up up all over her front yard? The Housewives of ESMB.
Solicitation of funds in this arena, to hire anyone, is scraping the bottom of the barrel. The only treasure we have left is our friends. And people blow through that like it has no value whatsoever.
If you or your family ever needs anything from me, please let me know because I KNOW you’re telling the truth about what’s going on. As you know, I’m also treated like an enemy of Tony’s & I’ve pushed very hard to get answers from him as to why he chose to lie about interviewing me etc. As everyone knows, those calls for accountability, like your calls, have gone completely ignored. That’s fine. We can’t make Tony & crew act like grown ups, just like we can’t force him to tell the truth or show compassion. But as an Ex Scientologist, I have every intention of rallying behind you & your family in respect for your contributions by showing you all the support you deserve. I hope others to do the same.
HARMING ATTACKING AND SUPPRESSING PEOPLE, WHEN THEY HAVE NO WAY TO FIGHT BACK, IS DELIBERATE CRUELTY.
Reveal yourselves! Who are YOU? Where do YOU live?
So, um..these are just a few things I have attention on. If someone out there has information to clarify this, do share! Ann Lowe, who I have been led to believe, has never been involved in Scientology, has been in charge of ESMB for some time. For the second time, if I am wrong, do correct me, and with why.
Ann Lowe also was the owner of Through The Door, a site which collected intel from dis affected Scientologists:
http://alley.ethercat.com/door/
And you would never know she has never been involved in Scientology as this site is described as an ” Ex-INT Base Staff Interrogatory”. For Ex Int Base Staff. Wow!
Now, she is in charge of Ex Scientology Message board, which is not for Ex Scientologists. It has morphed into an ANTI Scientology forum, flying under the banner of EX Scientologists. So, if you leave the Church, and read there, you get the idea they are all anti (and drift away as quick as you can).
Again I plead, if I am wrong here, please step forward and correct my thinking.
On Anne’s Through the Door site, she encourages critical thinking: “Please use your critical thinking skills while reading the interviews. I have no way to verify any of the information herein.”
As it turns out, anon mary has an interview there, and admits her only real occupation with the Church, was working for OSA and the Finance police. They are now hooked at the hip. Not a problem for me.
But when the Rathbun’s gain ground, and move OSA back, and gain some space, who comes down on these people and fair games them and threatened their security? Who replaces OSA with the pressure? The threats? Why, it is these from ESMB!
I mean, this just seems so disjointed to me. So, un accidental. I just, well, I hope you ladies come forward and explain this. I do not care to introduce people that may be unjust, putting out a wrong item or wrong indication, or worse. put you in a position to experience a slow burn.
I mean, I’m not saying anything, I’m asking. Who spends hours on the Internet with the purpose to destroy someone they never met? Someone who has never done them any dis service? so, WHY? There is a WHY that these people are in an enemy condition. They are either parked there permanently and so being, love there enemies and hate their friends. Or there is something else.
Then we have Lenny Zinberg. Who was former OSA. Nobody heard from him for years. He shows up and bawls on some video, and instantly elevated to leader of a pack. Begins making statements like, “I hope Marty comes to his senses.” Again, on a purpose line to make someone think they are crazy. (Didn’t he do this with Paulette Cooper?) Is this his “repentance”? I knew that guy , his nick name was “The Maytag Man” because he could spin people in so fast. Here he is, aggressively on a campaign to make Marty look crazy with his wife and kid’s info plastered all over Facebook, like he is just doing some job.
And the whole drive from left field is, “Marty is crazy. Marty is crazy. Marty is crazy.” And this is the whole drive of ESMB. Right along OSA purpose.
Is this really all “co incidental”? I can not prove it is not. I am asking for others to explain themselves. To step forward and say it is not, and explain who theyare and why they are so dedicated to suppressing this man and his family. Do tell!
Because I have been around long enough to know, these are Scientology mental health professionals:
That said, I want to say, Marty is not crazy. He is not crazy. Fkn with people this way is as evil as it gets. Fkn with people’s sanity. That is very fkn unholy. Check your selves out people.
This is gaslighting.
gas·light
ˈɡaslīt/
verb
gerund or present participle: gaslighting
manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.
“in the first episode, Karen Valentine is being gaslighted by her husband”
Even Tony Ortega planted a piece on his blog announcing Monique was mentally deficient. This is not “paranoia”, it is a fact.
So um, the simple thing that I ask myself, and you can ask yourself, is, “Who or what would profit by thinking and convincing others, that Marty is insane?” Who? Just make a list, and thereby you can identify his attackers. Who / what would oppose Marty? Who / what would benefit from convincing others that he is insane? I mean, can we share these lists at least?
I mean O.K., obviously bunnyskull has the biggest interest in this campaign. But why? She / he is not banned from here, neither is anyone that I know of, so maybe it can explain it all here? Why is this person is gas lighting and testing people’s sanity? Making mental health declares? As a mental health professional?
Hi Oracle,
I agree (“solicitation of funds…to hire anyone is scraping the bottom of barrel”).
That is why I am asking for the proof.
Which Marty claims to have.
And claims he will release in due time.
So, what is worse? Soliciting donations to have someone followed or making that accusation and saying ‘I have proof, but I’m not going to show you now’
Sounds like a page from the LRH/OSA handbook.(got the proof, but not going to show you)
The only problem is that playbook is out of date.
If only LRH had forseen communication beyond the Telex (i.e. the Internet)
QED – double standard
I thought moving on with one’s life was a good enough reason. Yet, you have provided a far better “explanation,” one of which I was not aware. Thank you for proving that there always can be a host of factors influencing someone’s decision about which the public knows nothing.
XXOO
Chee, you add values, you have values. What do you need that you consider of value.? How have you accounted for Marty and Monique’s child, in what they owe you right now? How are his wants and needs met, along side of yours? Or, are yours ahead of his, and how you expect Marty to fulfill your wants and needs without regard to his son? Because it seems to me, what many people are asking of Marty, is that he throw his kid under the bus to give them satisfaction. And that is not going to endear him to me. But it seems to be the “test” for so many others. And I find my affinity is being reduced for this culture.
Well said Michael Fairman!
After recovering from a long illness, I’m now back at work. Yay! This has enabled me to become a very modest financial monthly supporter of this blog. Thank you for all that you do and I hope others will consider doing the same.
Hi Marty,
Am I supposed to ask Tony Ortega if you have documented proof as to solicited donations to hire PIs to follow your family?
You made the allegation.
You said you had the proof and would release it.
All I asked was where is the proof or when will it be released?
No double standard.
That would be like me saying ‘I have documented proof COB and Tom Cruise are in love and I will show you proof in due time. Meanwhile, go and ask COB and Tom Cruise to prove it’s not true’
I’ll put it in words you can understand…if you talk the talk, walk the walk. And if you can prove what you allege as true, you will have a lot of support. Until then, it just looks like you are blowing smoke.
lol
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