Ruthless Bunker Mentality

What remarkable effects a little independent thought can produce in cyber-cultist minds imprisoned by self-imposed two-valued, us-vs.-them thinking. Tony Ortega had more comments to his critique of my review of the book Ruthless than he has had since his four-month campaign attempting to destroy my family’s credibility. He ended that series with the injunction to his followers that I was pretty much irrelevant to the Scientology world upon his pronunciamento. But, a simple posting of my thoughts on Ruthless brought his trolling legion to life, his cheerleader in chief working feverishly to spread Tony’s line onto every forum from secret Facebook anti-scientology clubs, to ESMB, to Pinterest, to you name it. A line Ron Miscavige Sr. and his co-author Dan Koon instantly adopted and represented as their own independently arrived at conclusion – their only public response to date.

In the after-flurry of Ortega’s bunker-mentality response, it was brought to my attention that Ortega and Jeffrey Augustine went on record at the Bunker in an effort to discredit my review (a weak-sister imitation of the dead agent caper incidentally, attacking but one fact of dozens shared). Both recounted an episode at my home in 2012. Per them, former scientology PIs Greg Arnold and Paul Marrick claimed to have spoken to David Miscavige. I heard a claim resembling their recollections at the time too. That is why I later asked Marrick and Arnold through their counsel to swear to it under oath in Monique Rathbun vs. Church of Scientology, et al.  A first year law student would understand the importance of such testimony on the issue of David Miscavige’s alleged hands-on involvement in investigative operations.

The lawyer represented it could not happen because Mr. Arnold and Mr. Marrick did not wish to help Monique Rathbun. That seemed odd since it was the Rathbuns who salvaged their white elephant lawsuit that had that lawyer in a desperate, groveling panic. So, what does one conclude? A) Paul Marrick and Greg Arnold were afraid to go under oath on their braggadocio because it was nothing more than telling tales to jack their self-importance? B) Their lawyer is a bottom feeding liar of the most unethical and immoral sort? C) Their lawyer was the one who did not wish to help Monique Rathbun?  Based on a lot of experience I am not at liberty to share at this time, I concluded it was a combination of A, B, and C.

To those not drunk on the ASC (Anti-Scientology Cult) Kool Aid, I have all of this documented for later laughs.

80 responses to “Ruthless Bunker Mentality

  1. So because their lawyer (or perhaps they themselves did not wish to be desposed) did not allow them to sit for a deposition, this makes their earlier claims (to Ortega and Augustine) false?
    You may be right (your ABC theories) as to why they didn’t want to get involved, but you may be wrong. Only they know the reason.

    It does NOT prove they didn’t make those statements to Ortega and Augustine however. That is what a first year law student would walk away with. Refusing to (voluntarily) sit for a deposition does not prove or disprove anything.

    I noticed you remain silent on your own claim that David Miscavige did in fact speak to PIs when he spoke to Gene Ingram. Or are we chalking that up to ‘one irrelevant, isolated incident’?

  2. Drunk on the Anti-Scientology Kool aid? Really?
    It appears evolution marches on. From enforcer to enemy to defender.
    Make up your mind. If that’s possible.

    • It looks like one complete revolution through the Scientology CDEI scale has occurred. Curious, Desire, Enforce and Inhibit.
      1. First he became curious and desired Scientology in his life
      2. Later on he enforced it pretty heavily as IG of the church
      3. Still later he inhibited with anti-DM, LRH and Scientology articles.
      4. With ” Ruthless” and todays offering it looks like a softening is taking place and we are headed toward some sort of state of desire (defender)

      • I never claimed to know the “tech”. I would not want to sound ridiculous making believe I understood it and could apply it. Apparently it does not bother you. As little as I know, you know and understand less.

  3. 1890 – William James “The Principles of Psychology”

    “The faculty of voluntarily bringing back a wandering attention, over and over again is the very root of judgment, character, and will.”

    Mark has been clear from the beginning that he will protect and defend what is most dear to him. His family.

    Sadly others find their status, their self-image, their protection of fixed views etc what is dearest to them.

  4. When you mention what L Ron Hubbard did, or what Marty Rathbun or David Miscavige is doing, people become interested. If you mention what Tony Ortega is doing, not so much. Tony makes his living writing about and speculating on the lives and actions of others. He wants to be important, to be a mover and shaker, but sadly for him he is only as relevant as reporting and speculating and gossiping on these others actions allow him to be. He is a relay point, not a source point. And when his relays become entangled with his own agenda and pride, it blows up, gets messy, and he looses any value he may of once had as an independent reporter. That is what is happening. The storyteller is becoming part of the story. Taking sides, innuendo, gossip, cult of personality. Trying to make a buck. Doing whatever it takes to remain relevant and keep readership up. When he hears any of those first three names, his eyes ring up with dollar signs in them.

    • Well said, Librarian. Long ago I observed that Ortega forwards misinformation. Add to your list of “what L Ron Hubbard did, or what Marty Rathbun or David Miscavige is doing” the many false claims about the subject of scientology itself (not the church). For example, someone’s description of TR0 as “a staring contest” was picked up on and has been repeated by Ortega numerous times, as if it were a definition.

      A person can be misguided but only for so long if he has any integrity. What I commend Marty for is that if he sees things differently because of new data, he is willing to say so and stick out his neck- very publicly. I haven’t always been in agreement with his ideas, but I always knew he was telling his truth.

    • “Colonial organisms are actually groups of individual organisms with a close, dependent relationship with other organisms in the colony, often with each member having a very specific specialization that makes them incapable of surviving alone”.

      This is the mindset Hubbard invented with the “Sea Org member”. The “Scientologist”. And the “O.T.”. With the “Organization”.

      This mind set is what is what inflates Tony Ortega’s coffers. And binds the anti symbiotic. Tony Ortega restimulates people for a living. Into sadism, losses, anti symbiotic behavior, ill will, anti others and therefore, anti self.

      “I’m so stupid for exploring. I’m so stupid for having ____ identity. I’m so stupid for having hope. I’m so stupid for the the pursuit of happiness. Let’s kill one of us. Let’s fair game all of them. Blah blah blah.”

      He wakes up every morning with the goal of restimulating people into losses, ARC breaks, failed purposes, hate, and need to punish others.

      That is exactly how he makes his living. And he knows exactly what he is doing. Only now, he also has the mindset he can not survive alone. His blog and all he has and is, would vanish should he not have a following.

      And now he has a crew of “tipsters” doing his bidding. He chants every day, so they are under enchantment (restimulation). He is a second rate low classed mischievous fairy. Using the oldest most common magic known to man, to get others to do his bidding. He chants and restimulates. And every person under his command / enchantment, somewhere is being a colonial organism, that feels they need him to survive. mainly, they need him to think for them.

      Since his entire cluster cult is made anti symbiotic and socked into purposes of ethnic cleansing and hate and sadism, they are also anti self. If only by the mere fact they choose to have him think for them.

      And David Miscavige is doing the same thing on the other side of the mirror.

      The anti self, mirror and project that into others. It is a purpose to get people to loathe themselves. If only by hating others in your own species.Thereby loathing some part of yourself.

      Both sides will do themselves in, as they are anti self.

      Both cult leaders prey on fears of colonial organisms. And the more anti self you become, the more you become certain, you can not survive alone.

      The only reason a person would not survive alone, is if they were anti self, and “alone” means you are parked with your own worst enemy. Which can very well be, yourself.

      All of these people will survive, alone, at some point in the near future. And they will be stuck with the same ruthless purposes in that space. The self, and the anti self. And it is in that dimension, people become the effect of their own create.

  5. I always think of the researchers who have to read through Scientology’s blogs and ex-staff and ex-member stories and sort it all out, in 50 years from now, or longer, like 100 years.

    There’s still so many people who had interactions with Hubbard and were in high up positions near Hubbard, who ought to write their histories and tell their stories, and there just ought to be more content provided firsthand by ex members.

    I always concluded that lawyers getting their hands on the “story” details of Scientology history will warp it to win their cases and get paid and survive and bolster their reputations so they can do it again.

    That PI sleuthing that Scientology pays for, seems also contrary to getting to the truth of what actually happened.

    I thought with you and Mike gone, that it was very much likely that Miscavige might contact PIs.

    Who would really know?

    I think LInda Hamel’s duties, and Warren McShane’s duties, ought to be explained more of what they do today.

    LIke could Warren’s voice be mistook for Miscavige’s, by PIs who don’t know any better.

    Would Warren impersonate intentionally, and with Miscavige’s blessing, when talking to a PI, or is McShane just not made of that level of duplicity and fiber in his go-between role.

    Especially since you and Mike aren’t there, in the late 2000s, you were both gone. Who could Miscavige get to do the sensitive PI things?

    Also, the Mike Rinder phone calls, to Tommy Davis, when Tommy was trying to be all over the John Sweeney “handling” that led me to think that Miscavige was capable of phoning somewhat direct, in moments.

    Anyways, I want new people who held the highest up positions and who were in on things, who are out, who know, to speak out, and I wish more details of what they remember, and I’d love to hear smart interviewers interview you so more when MORE people who were in the top ranks in the late 1970s and early 1980s hopefully go public and write their books.

    For me, the subject is Scientology, and while people are still alive, those people near Hubbard, who spent years of facetime with Hubbard, I wish their firsthand stories to get written up or video’d before they die!

    Scientology and Hubbard are the principle subjects I think long term future researchers and people interested in Scientology will appreciate MOST of today’s aging generation of “top” Scientologists.

    Thanks again for your books, but particularly your 3rd book, “Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior.”

    You have so much more history details, I hope others of high up rank who were there before you, and after you, who speak up, add to the big subjects.

    Miscavige, to me, is a number 3 story.

    Because when the number 3 story, Miscavige, is dead, the “Scientologists” will turn to their number 1 and 2 stories, Hubbard and Scientology, for how to proceed.

    So, my conclusion, stepping back, is that people today with number 1 (Hubbard) and then number 2 (Scientology history during Hubbard’s time) story, will be the most appreciated “history” in 50-100 years.

    • Further, on my looking back at Scientology, 100 years from now, the Miscavige number 3 story will be forgotten or admitted to, based on the best historical details of Miscavige’s actual behavior.

      Even future 100 years from now Scientologists will have no qualms about dissing Miscavige, even in that future 100 years from now “standard” Scientology movement, whatever it is someday.

      I just hope accurate history is told by firsthand participants of the “top” levels of Scientology ongoing history.

      Enough details, people writing good accurate cross corroborating details is what paints the best history picture.

      I had wished some honest PIs and hired persons would tell the truth too, just like the ex-members are fessing up their histories, but PIs telling the truth is a tiny minority of the overall Scientology story.

      There is so much history details, I favor heaving all of them, from everyone, and sorting it all out from all the details.

      “Top” most people who lived with Hubbard, through those years at ASI, I wish to hell all the other higher up ex ASI staffers who haven’t even been mentioned, would be interviewed or tell more history.

      Shelly Miscavige would be a goldmine if she defected and told her history firsthand observations.

      Any of Miscavige’s and even your direct underlings would know a hell of a lot and I wish more ex-RTC staffers would write their stories and what they remember, and interview and ask YOU questions of what even they wondered you were up to when you didn’t even inform them of your actions.

      So much more history could be told, of what I consider the number 3 story, which is Scientology under this first era leader after Hubbard.

      But again, to me, ex member and long term observer, number 1 story is still the untold history people firsthand remember of their lives when they crossed paths with Hubbard and then number 2 story, their remembrances of Scientology history events right up close to Hubbard’s influence during Hubbard’s years.

      • Hi Chuck,
        There is no doubt that new information about Hubbard or Scientology is of value. Anyone with significanly new information should write about it in any way possible. Exposing details for public consumption has been going on for decades. Is there anything significantly new? Is there a “shocker” lurking out there? I don’t know of any. But I do know that I personally rarely hear anything that is outside the pattern of Hubbard’s established personality.
        Reading all of the books about Scientology paints for me a generalized picture of a complex organization with a very simplified inner structure. The complexity of Scientology is a facade, IMO. For example, if one looks at Hubbard’s simple definitions, there is constructed only a simple version of a religion. Like how complex can the idea really be that there is a “thetan”?
        All of the space opera and implants are merely added complexities. Also, Hubbard changed his “bridge” many time during his life adding nothing but confusion. IMO, the way to defeat Scientology is to simplify it. There really is nothing complex in it anyway. Auditing with the e-meter is probably the most complex part, but even that simplifies to conversation. Thus it is like a “fulcrum point”. If enough pressure is directed at the simplified mass, it can be easily uplifted. This mass can only be uplifted when Scientology is caught harming people in the present moment. I think Miscavige discontinued auditing because of the risks of lawsuits. Varied auditing sessions could create opportunites for court action. Like the turtle, Scientology got back into its shell. For example, if possible, I would ask for a full refund. After nearly thirty years out of Scientology, I concluded that the religion should have been a charity. This conclusion is based on the fact that Hubbard copied most of his key points from sources he did not fully identify – occult, obscure reference like german who coined engram etc. etc. I will grant that auditing with the e-meter was a unique contribution. However, to base it on the thetan made it exempt from pricing. Hubbard could have easily set it up to ask for donations based on ability to pay. Scientology would not have the fancy buildings but it would have friendship. I hope to hear someone come forward with the “shocker”
        GMW

  6. You still got it Marty. It’s just like the old days.

  7. I have wondered why Tony Ortega is so interested in Scientology, seeing as he never was a member. Not that you have to have been a member of something to be interested in it, but he seems to have practically made a career of it.

    • Because it was a subject totally ignored by the media for decades due to their litigious abuse of journalists. After Time magazine had to pay millions to defend its right to publish a story on the CoS no media outlet would touch the CoS with a ten foot pole due to the cost in lawyers and time. Ortega was one of the very few who bothered, and kept on it through out his career. When Marty and Mike came out, the only people who covered it were the SP times and Ortega at the VV. Things have changed now, but Ortega has earned respect for his coverage of the CoS when NO ONE else would touch it.

    • Perhaps, because when he was Editor of the Village Voice (said publication being heavily focused on LGBT issues and advocacy), one of the more enterprising anti-Scientologists persuaded him that Ron Hubbard, the Co$ and its membership are anti-Gay with an agenda to eliminate such persons from society. The recruitment of Tony Ortega as an Anti-Scientologist was one of the best applications of Hubbard GO/OSA PR tech I’ve ever seen.

      Michael A. Hobson
      Independent Scientologist

  8. Marrick and Arnold settled in November 2012, presumably with all sorts of conditions on the money.

    Miscavige Pays P.I.’s for Silence…But November 30, 2012, Marty Rathbun, Moving On Up a Little Higher

    Rathbun v. Scientology didn’t start until August 2013.

    I don’t know if settlement agreements can legally block someone from testifying in someone else’s lawsuit, I’m not a lawyer, but I’m sure that their lawyer told them that it wouldn’t be a good idea if they wanted to enjoy a peaceful retirement.

  9. Once Upon a Time

    Marty, you made some very interesting points. I believe you are right because you lived it.

    Don’t pay attention to Tony Ortega. Who reads his junk anyway? His cult followers give him kudos every day but then again who are his followers? They are pathetic losers who feed Ortega’s ego. He was sacked by the Village Voice because he was obsessed with Scn – google “Tony Ortega obsessed with Scientology” and you will see it. He is blinded by his obsession so don’t expect him to be factual and balanced. He uses people and when they no longer serve his purpose he trashes them–unless of course they financially support his blog with “donations” sent to his attorney, Scott Pilutik.

    And as for Jeff Augustine, do you really want to waste your time to talk about him? Karen de la Carriere and Jeff are Ortega’s top “sources” for his stories, I rest my case. They make a great trio: an obsessed wannabe reporter, a delusional podcaster who loves to hear himself talking and a retired, you know what, who sells her lies to the tabloids as facts, but she will not hesitate to frame you if you cross her.

    I wouldn’t waste my time with them if I were you – they are already doing a good job in discrediting themselves.

    • I don’t think positioning Karen, Jeff, and Ortega in the *way* that you did is particularly helpful. It marginalizes and detracts from what is perhaps the real reason they are working together to slant all scientology stories in the way that they do.

      Particularly the “retired, you know what” part I found offensive. Karen may, or may not have been a “kept woman” in the past, but I think that is far less important or even relevant than to what END she is engaged upon.

      All three have been consistently trying to control the story-line about scientology in a particular way, and in a particular direction.

      This is where I find fault with what she and her husband are doing.

      • “All three have been consistently trying to control the story-line about scientology in a particular way, and in a particular direction.”

        Can you flesh that out a bit?

      • Once Upon a Time

        Karen attacks LRH and the tech yet she “audits” people and profits from it. She calls Scn a cult and blames LRH for everything that is “wrong” with Scn, but then she continues to sell her “services” to anyone who is stupid enough to pick up the cans with her. Have you ever read what she writes about Scientologists? Have you ever watched any of her stupid videos? People in that former profession of hers lie for a living and love attention and Karen does it every day, she is a natural. If she hates LRH so much please explain why she “audits” people, and I hear she gets a lot of money? Why doesn’t she move on if she is done with Scn? I tell you why, Karen has a vindictive nature and she in incapable of leaving Scn alone, that’s why she continues to smear LRH and Scn every single day. She calls herself an anti-Scn activist or whistleblower but at the same time she promotes her “services” as an “LRH trained Class XII”. Every old timer knows that Karen was never trained by LRH but she sells it to anyone gullible enough to fall for her BS.

        If the truth offends you then keep ignoring it if that makes you feel better. You should look up the definition of marginalize before using it again because that applies to Karen in relation to what she is saying about LRH and Scn not to someone who is telling the truth.

        You have no idea what Karen is capable of when she wants to destroy someone. She sued her former financial adviser claiming that he had forged her signature in a notarized document. In trial the judge caught Karen and Augustine lying about it and she reluctantly had to admit that she made it all up. Here is where I found that information: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Karen-de-la-Carriere/nationwide/Karen-de-la-Carriere-Liar-Untruthful-exagerated-scammer-Los-Angeles-Nationwide-1283000
        Skip the debate between Augustine and others and just read what the judge said. BTW, even the judge makes reference that Karen was paying her financial adviser with another form of payment. If you take offense with that or you feel Karen has been marginalized take it up with the judge.

        I left the COS to pursue other avenues but it doesn’t give me the right to spew lies on every person who remained inside. I don’t audit my pcs and then attack LRH and the tech I deliver. Karen’s lies will, sooner than later, catch up with her.

        • “Karen attacks LRH and the tech yet she ‘audits’ people and profits from it. She calls Scn a cult and blames LRH for everything that is ‘wrong’ with Scn, but then she continues to sell her ‘services’ to anyone who is stupid enough to pick up the cans with her.”

          Wow. From some of the videos I’ve seen of her, where she puts down the tech, I never would have imagined she actually audits. That’s just crazy.

  10. SHUT UP YOU JERK! *nods*

  11. ATTACK: What remarkable effects a little independent thought can produce in cyber-cultist minds imprisoned by self-imposed two-valued, us-vs.-them thinking. Tony Ortega had more comments to his critique of my review of the book Ruthless than he has had since his four-month campaign attempting to destroy my family’s credibility. He ended that series with the injunction to his followers that I was pretty much irrelevant to the Scientology world upon his pronunciamento. But, a simple posting of my thoughts on Ruthless brought his trolling legion to life, his cheerleader in chief working feverishly to spread Tony’s line onto every forum from secret Facebook anti-scientology clubs, to ESMB, to Pinterest, to you name it. A line Ron Miscavige Sr. and his co-author Dan Koon instantly adopted and represented as their own independently arrived at conclusion – their only public response to date.

    DEAD AGENT: In the after-flurry of Ortega’s bunker-mentality response, it was brought to my attention that Ortega and Jeffrey Augustine went on record at the Bunker in an effort to discredit my review (a weak-sister imitation of the dead agent caper incidentally, attacking but one fact of dozens shared). Both recounted an episode at my home in 2012. Per them, former scientology PIs Greg Arnold and Paul Marrick claimed to have spoken to David Miscavige. I heard a claim resembling their recollections at the time too. That is why I later asked Marrick and Arnold through their counsel to swear to it under oath in Monique Rathbun vs. Church of Scientology, et al. A first year law student would understand the importance of such testimony on the issue of David Miscavige’s alleged hands-on involvement in investigative operations.

    The lawyer represented it could not happen because Mr. Arnold and Mr. Marrick did not wish to help Monique Rathbun. That seemed odd since it was the Rathbuns who salvaged their white elephant lawsuit that had that lawyer in a desperate, groveling panic. So, what does one conclude? A) Paul Marrick and Greg Arnold were afraid to go under oath on their braggadocio because it was nothing more than telling tales to jack their self-importance? B) Their lawyer is a bottom feeding liar of the most unethical and immoral sort? C) Their lawyer was the one who did not wish to help Monique Rathbun? Based on a lot of experience I am not at liberty to share at this time, I concluded it was a combination of A, B, and C.

    ATTACK/DEAD AGENT: To those not drunk on the ASC (Anti-Scientology Cult) Kool Aid, I have all of this documented for later laughs.

    KEEP SCIENTOLOGY WITHERING OSA

  12. Thanks Marty for your review because it confirmed a lot of what my gut told me about the book.

    After all, Dan Koon helped him write it. LOL!! I wouldn’t read a grocery list written by that dude.

    As for the clubbed seals over at the Bunker and at ESMB: LOL!!!

    Still circle jerking as usual. But hey…it’s easier than thinking. Bwahahahaha…..

  13. Let’s go back to 2006/7/8. I got a telephone call from Jason Beghi, before he ‘came out’. He said he was out, and had read my postings on the net, and my old postings. He said he was going to ‘do something’. I proceeded to tell him the same thing that I told Leah Remeni through a relative, with whom I spent considerable time with in message chat on the ESMB board shortly before being banned. I told both of them that the only thing scientology understands is force. That there is no such thing as negotiation with the devil. And that if they really wanted to make difference, that they should come out swinging.

    About a year or so later after that telephone call from Jason, it was 2007 or so, early fall, might have been 2008, Jason called me up and said he he coming to DC and whether I could meet with him. I said fine, and suggested the capitol hill watering hole, the Hawk and Dove. It was there I met the man he was traveling with, named Ortega. Being half Mexican myself, I thought we might hit it off, but Ortega seemed cold, detached and distant… it was troubling, I had no problem not liking this man.

    I believe another person who was going to be visited was Mike Rinder whom after getting a query from Rich Leiby at the Post who asked if Mike had really left.. So I confirmed that he had left the building at OSA Int, after by called up Bob minton and asked him to call Mike on his private line to see if he asnwered.

    Jason said he wanted to put together a team, to run the expose scientology effort, and shepard the new escapees from gold base, and asked if I would be willing to be part of this team. I told him I could not because of physical pain. Seems I’ve managed to take good care of this body but had serious stenosis… in the spine. The channel for the spinal cord was not big enough for the size of the nerve. So I was in terrible pain and was in the process of selling my home of twenty some years so i could pay for surgury to stop the pain.

    Soon after this meeting, the most excellent Mike and Marty show started up in Texas, with the online publicity managed by Ortega on his blog.

    Shortly after the author of “Piece of Blue Sky” John Atack arrived on the scene having been gone for the previous twenty years.

    And a guy that used to copy my insights that I posted to ocmb, after rewriting it, exaggerating it, and adding lots of pictures became one of his sources.

    I took a long break from the war, I didn’t have a choice physically, and thought things were in good hands, and not in need of my attention at all. Hell, there was the head of OSA INT and Mark Rathbun.. Probably the only two guys that know more than i do about OSA, but not about what really works in scientology or in what is left of society at this time.

    Skipping turning this missive into a short feature documentary, I will skip to the conclusion. I believe that the same forces that tried to drive Bob minton to suicide, have succesfully love bombed Ortega or perhaps just bought him. They have surrounded him. The topic is the “church” of scientology does bad things. Not how the trick is done. Meanwhile the same band that attacked Bob push to write this old war horse and my friends, out of history. http://www.lermanet.com/betrayalofbobminton.htm

    In short Marty, the same crew that went after Mr Minton are after you and I and have co-opted Mr Ortega. “The best way to control the opposition is to become it” said Lenin

    arnie lerma
    arnielerma.wordpress.com

    “The best way to control the opposition is to become it” Lenin

  14. Dead Agent Ortega

    Yes, Mr Ortega never mentions that David Miscavige engages in criminal activities. He merely labels him a bad boy.

    Another dead agent fail from a paranoid hypnosis conspiracy theorist.

  15. Thank you so much for doing this Arnie, and please know that it IS appreciated.

    • “In short Marty, the same crew that went after Mr Minton are after you and I and have co-opted Mr Ortega.”

      I think so too, same that went after Mike and I.

      Only I might add that the “crew” isn’t just composed of scientologists. Things go just a *little* higher on the food chain that that.

      I know you know that Arnie, I just thought I’d put it out there for those who may not have considered the actual scope of things regarding scientology and Hubbard.

  16. Marty,

    When I read the story that Ortega wrote about your book review, I just knew it would get under your skin and you would strike back with a negative response. And you did. Why do you let people like Ortega get to you so much, to cause negativity in your life? It was not so long ago that you and he were able to talk together and help people together, remember? You may not like what he has to say all of the time, but there are not many writers or reporters that WILL write about the abuses within the Church. They are all still afraid of what might happen if they do.

    While I do read his blog, I do not agree with everything he says. I understand that his thinking is not always right but I think that what he does is still very much needed in these times. I know that you are not blogging about the Church anymore, even before the lawsuit of your wife, but when you did I read your blogs every single day. I read them from your beginning posts to the point when you stopped. I still check every now and then to see if you have posted anything. I think you have been through alot, because you felt the need to help others coming out. And I think you did a great job for so many people, to the detriment of your own life much of the time. Those people will always be thankful for you and Mosey for the help you offered them and everything you did for them

    Please do not think I am slamming your words or taking Ortega’s side in this. That is not the case at all. I just think that there comes a time to just let it be and not get into a war of words. That only breeds negativity and can weigh you down. I wish you nothing but positive energy for yourself and your family. They are what matter, always and I wish you nothing but peace and happiness.

    I do hope you and Mosey are doing well, just living your life together🙂

  17. Mark –

    “Based on a lot of experience I am not at liberty to share at this time, I concluded it was a combination of A, B, and C.”

    I’d say that’s a pretty good estimate of what happened there.

    Despite the false-conclusion-fest by some regarding the conversation at your home by Ortega and Jeffrey Augustine, what was clear to me was this – It didn’t strike me as being even vaguely probable that you would a: not know about this conversation prior to writing your Ruthless review and b: that you would not have done something definitive about it after you heard about the conversation.

    And so you did.

    It must be interesting (maybe not the right word) to you to watch these people fill in the gaps you left them, in such a revealing way as to their true views. Not to mention their demonstrable complete lack of conscience in BETRAYING you at a moment’s notice.

    Who could ever call such people a reliable source for anything, when THEY are that easy to turn.

    It’s one reason I admire some (not many, but some) that we and others have called “slavemasters”. They at least have *some* inkling of what real loyalty is. Even if it is twisted and to the wrong people and things, at least they don’t act like a bunch of lemmings who change directions at the slightest twitch coming in at them.

  18. Um, Arnie, a lot of the people who were critical of Bob Minton’s actions after he did a 180 on the McPherson civil case, perjured himself one way or another, closed the LMT and posted that Ralph Dorian nonsense had good reason, and suspected that Scientology had his balls in vice.

    The balls in a vice turned out to be true:
    How Scientology got to Bob Minton November 2, 2009, Thomas C. Tobin, Joe Childs, Tampa Bay Times

    Bob was a great guy, did a lot, but had no sense of caution and when CoS found his cracking-point, let himself be used against other people.

  19. This is an interesting add by Caroline and Gerry Armstrong.

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?42581-Rathbun-Attempts-To-Defend-David-Miscavige&p=1113170&viewfull=1#post1113170

    ===

    Marrick and Arnold’s petition, which was filed in District Court in San Patricio County by attorney Ray Jeffrey, states:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick and Arnold’s First Amended Petition
    14. Mr. Arnold and Mr. Marrick were hired and supervised by Mr. Miscavige and his closest aides. Mr. Miscavige, himself, devised the 1988 tryout for Mr. Arnold and Mr. Marrick to test their special competence for the Broeker surveillance. For 25 years, Mr. Miscavige received regular briefings on this particular investigation and he even participated in conference calls with Arnold and Marrick. The Broeker Operation, which secretly has siphoned millions of tax-exempt dollars from Scientology’s coffers, always has been a personal concern of Mr. Miscavige.

    ===

    Gerry hangs his whole argument, it appears to me, on this sentence that he attributes to Mark in his Memoirs book:

    “that Miscavige had insisted on speaking to PI Ingram personally in the Armstrong operation”

    I already pointed out that Mark didn’t actually say that Miscavige actually DID call Ingram, just that they were tussling over that he WANTED to.

    Maybe it’s hair-splitting, but if people are going to hang their whole arguments on something that WAS NOT ACTUALLY SAID by Mark, it then becomes important.

    Gerry then quotes the two PIS lawsuit petition, which I’d also like to comment on.

    “…he even participated in conference calls with Arnold and Marrick.”

    That’s an allegation, but for the sake of argument, let’s just say that was true.

    Then why would they have back-off swearing it under oath?

    Some have tentatively offered the explanation that it was because of their pay-off from Miscavige. I don’t buy that.

    Something much uglier went on here.

    Although I may get excoriated for saying this, I feel that Caroline and Gerry are starting to come off as having a rather skewed agenda towards Mark Rathbun, one that seems to preclude any narrative OTHER than the one they have already decided upon regarding his character, or lack of.

    Can they not even conceive of another reason that the two PI’s alleged this in their petition – or is that simply not allowed since it doesn’t fit their narrative? I don’t know, but I don’t like the attempted rail-roading here.

  20. The waters of the anti-Scientology campaigners seem to get more and more muddled. Human emotions and reactions are taking the upperhand, it seems. I am almost convinced the main muddler might be OSA of Scientology. Some mayor players in the field might be directly or indirectly steered by OSA/Miscavige, because some dirt in their private lifes has been skilfully dug up. Never underestimate the enemy, i.c. Scientology.
    But we have to muddle through, I suppose. It will take courage from those who will not get intimidated. I admire them. And I don’t blame anyone giving up and be silent for a while given the circumstances. Sometimes it’s not worth it. Scientology in the end will kill itself. So why destroy your own life right now? Why bother? Let them stew in their own juices.

  21. Roger From Switzerland Thought

    Right on Marty. It seems you’re having lots of fun with your blog. Also some people do not understand why you write certain articles, thinking you’re just reacting, while THEY are just reacting and biting into the baits you’re throwing around and laughing about their answers, that you predicted.
    This is quite an interesting sociological study, where own could asses the IQ level. and educational Levels of people that were drawn to Scientology and what lessons they learned after quitting the COS…..
    I’m still learning from your blog…, but I don’t understand why you’re still in the building ?

  22. Thanks for the link, mcclaughry – most enlightening.

  23. KEEP CALM
    AND
    LET MARTY
    LIVE HIS LIFE.

    I wonder is there class XII auditor , in this game ….
    There is D. Cook , go on attack her people…
    Also Tony is a BLOGER ,that means he can write his own story.
    75% he is doing a good job. Commenters are big problem. But it is another story.
    Marty is doing his job . I don’t care if there is money. Not first not last.
    Problem is who is decider what a blog post or , which person to be investigated… That my friends is decided by class XII auditor , that still sell this LRHs shit… And,
    Big hello from LRHs Bulgravia.

  24. For the first time in at least two weeks I took a gander over at ESMB. I admit it was curiosity that led me to do so. And sure enough the “circle jerking” is underway with the “Marty is defending DM because he took a secret settlement payoff”. Oh, and he and his regular readers are “crazy”, and “unwanted anywhere else”. Lol… No hon, Bunny Skull, we choose not to be over there where you are. The Board of self-righteous, rumor and gossip mongers. And yes, I used to be one of the worst. I’ve admitted this on this blog and another blog. I have been very up front with my bad behavior over the years.

    Yes, Thetan Exterior, I am one and the same Lone Star. I have to say that your claim that I was banned for making “vile sexual comments” to a female poster isn’t entirely accurate. My attack post to PR back in the early winter last year was indeed vile and awful. The one sexual inference was more in passing in an admittedly bad effort to pile on. Or to twist the knife. It was not the actual purpose of the post for which you are seeming to make it sound. I was calling her out for something that I came to see later was incorrect. I let loose with a lot of pent up anger and accused her of something that was untrue and unfair. (She and I started out as good friends on ESMB, but later we fought a lot over various off-topic issues). I apologized sincerely and profusely and she forgave me. I once again count her as one of my best “internet/message board” friends even though she has gone offline entirely. (Unless she posts on Facebook, which I do not).

    Anyway, I went over this in much detail on Alonzos Blog a few months ago. I don’t shrink away from my bad behavior because I did it….so I have to own it. And I do.

    Now, my J&Ding comment on “circle jerking” is typical me. A J&Der. This outpoint was never handled. Lol… I use the imagery of mutual masturbation, or group masturbation because that is what ends up happening a lot on message boards and blogs in general. Not just Scilon ones. Right now the meme of Marty is defending DM because he dares to be critical of Ron Sr.’s book is a typical example. (Not even Tony O believes that Marty was paid off with some kind of secret settlement. At least he didn’t earlier this year).

    I noticed that Bunny Skull admits that she doesn’t read anything on this blog anymore, yet she has pronounced everyone here as being on a “crazy train”, and that Marty is indeed working for DM now. So she is both on the giving a receiving end of the mutual masturbation group. She just accepts the opinions of others without actually reading what Marty wrote. Typical of her. A sophist. And I’m being kind by calling her a sophist.

    If one carefully reads Marty’s book review, not once does he defend DM in the manner of which he’s being accused. He’s merely pointing out that too often Ron Sr. and Dan Koon wrote from hearsay. He also pointed out how he threw DM’s mother under the bus. She’s not around to defend herself. But that’s okay in the gossip mongering ex and critic world. As long as he’s trying to “stick it to” DM then he can go as low in the gutter as he desires. He can also downplay his own help in creating a monster and pass the blame to others. He can even be a nefarious character himself. He gets a pass. (He did get a sweetheart payoff deal by his son. Money that was siphoned off the backs of still-ins. Money that other ex SOers will never get. Oh, but we’ll overlook that inconvenient fact. And Dan Koon? OMG. Just the name alone says it all).

    The goal of exposing DM is a worthy one. But it’s better to do so by being as accurate and honest as possible. I’m betting that Marty believes that books such as Ron Sr’s actually does more harm than good in the scheme of things, because too much of it is inaccurate, and is a gossip rag. But that’s how the Western World rolls in this era. Reality TV and TMZ rules. The main ex-scilon and critic forums and blogs reflect the degradation of this culture. I was a part of it myself. I was one of the worst actors even. I’m determined to come out of it. It’s not easy going against what everyone else thinks is acceptable and cool.

    If you call what’s really crazy crazy, they you are accused of being crazy. Or worse.

    I had more to say, but I’ve already lost interest and have therefore forgotten it. It doesn’t matter anyway. I’m not changing anyone’s mind or heart. I’m just pounding my keyboard in vain. I think we all are.

    MODERATOR NOTE: I edited out one sentence from the parenthetical note on Dan Koon – as no doubt it will be twisted and used by ASC to falsely accuse you of other things. I recognize how far that krew is capable of going with anyone who admits to past transgressions. Sort of what ASC exes accuse scientology of doing and then wallow in victimhood about for the rest of their lives.

    • @ Lone Star. Emma started the ball rolling with referencing myself, Arnie Lerma and the Oracle as being “the looniest of loons”.

      Back in the day, Senator Borah of Idaho was quite the thorn in-the-side of the League of Nations promoters (that would have been dominated by British votes).

      There were press clippings, books, and so on maligning his character (much like you see here now), one of which I recall referred to him as mentally unbalanced and anti-social because he eschewed Washington parties and preferred look over “musty old files” and ancient irrelevant books.

      Of course, he excoriated their asses with those “irrelevant” documents, so we see what the real problem was that they were having with him – he wouldn’t fall for any of their tactics to distract him.

      One of the more interesting things he was called was an “Irreconcilable”. I love that.

      Although this ESMB crap is all rather sickening to watch (the lot of them look like a bunch of rats trapped in some electrified cage – twitching and jumping and snarling at things) I suppose I *could* take this Ultra Declare as a kind of inverted compliment.

      The 3 Irreconcilables.

  25. “Being” an ex-member of scientology does not mean that the bad habits we were conditioned to use as substitute for THINKING, stop affecting thinking.

    The more time a person spends in a trance not-of-thier-own-control the easier it is to invoke that same trance by keyword or innuendo.

    The most used METHOD used by Hubbard to stop thinking is the act of demonization of a source of data.

    Learning this and the other methods well enough so they no longer may be used is the only way to prevent manipulators from playing ex-members and narcissists like a piano. It will prevent them falling for the same old tricks again with a different stage setting and shore story.

    And there is not one whit of difference dealing with scientology (Hubbard or Dwarf ™ brand, and dealing with a psychopath out for their own gain.

    Those that refuse to learn can be played like a Wurlitzer.

  26. Twice now you advised me to ‘walk away’ Marty and twice now I ignored your advice until it was too late and the ‘damage’ was done.
    As a friend who has always loved you I offer you now the same advice:
    Our family will never forget the kindness you and Mosey (complete ‘strangers’ in our lives) showed us when people who had professed to be our closest friends turned us out like trash the second it suited them.
    Your friends know who you are. You’ve done enough. You’ve suffered enough. You don’t owe anyone anything and all these people will do is hurt you again and again and again.
    Walk away. And don’t look back – not even for a second – there is nothing but pain to be found there and you deserve better than that.
    Huge hugs. Love and support ALWAYS whatever you decide to do.
    Sam and the girls
    xxx❤

    • Well said Sam. But, I wouldn’t “walk away”. I would advise Monique, in view of all that has transpired in the last several months. Having a better view of “family friends”, to drop the new legal team before they file one piece of paper, like, yesterday. And permit me to mediate and reach a reasonable conclusion for both sides. I will go the distance.

      Otherwise people with nothing else to ponder and with no other purpose than to piggy back off your current events, will rubber neck, stalk, slander and back stab you every step of the way. At this point, the C of S might even get some of them in to testify against you.

      Private mediation will pull this out of the three ring circus it has become. Give you and your family some peace.

      I’m thinking Ray Jeffires has been promised in round about ways, new prospects and new cycles. But is beginning to cognite you were his one hit wonder when you walked Debbie Cook in the door. Nobody else has done diddly squat for his career or bank account. He must be getting hungry by now. Man can’t live by flattery and hope alone. He can’t be a fashion accessory forever. No ambitious lawyer wants or needs to be, last year’s man. In a crowd of last year’s people. No matter who’s arm he’s on. Maybe you could pull him back out of the garage and throw him a bone to draw up the legal paper work. If he agrees not to exploit your wife all over Texas to better his position in the community.

      Either way, I will be happy to negotiate and mediate a private settlement. Neither side has anything to lose. And both sides have something to gain.
      Spend yourself where you will find reward. The crowd out here reads like the Church of Scientology ethics book. Under Rewards and Penalties, it’s all penalties and no rewards. It’s a mind set and a culture now. If they could have a win, it would be what it is.

      Set yourself up for a win. The mere rumor that you may have already had a win, has driven the crowd half mad already.

      Having a win, is totally unacceptable in this culture. On both sides. This is, the anti self black magic. People out here profit off of losses. That is how the Church beggars encourage donations. That is how the victims obtain the sympathy and applause. This is the misery, that Tony Ortega profits off of.

      You people are natural winners. When you have to apologize for that, it really is time to clean house.

      I would be more than happy to mediate pro bono. End the legal cycle and give the crowd out here, what they really want and need, another loss. They are already mocking it up and it hasn’t even happened yet. That is how they desperate they are, to have another loss.

      Start a new blog. “WINNING mother fuckers”.

      LAUGHTER!

  27. “Karen may, or may not have been a “kept woman” in the past, ”

    McClaughry, I think the humblebrag in your seeming intervention is disgusting.

    Anyone who was once in Scientology, was once “kept”, and that includes you.

  28. I’m all for “a little independent thought.” But is it really THAT, if it pretty much echoes the cult’s hate web sites on Ron M? Professing to dislike ad-hominem arguments and actually not engaging in them are two entirely different things!

    I’m also all for learning new facts. That’s why I read a number of blogs, including this one (and have done so for several years, and learned a lot in the process). But how sound is an argument–no matter WHO the blogger–that offers conclusions based on evidence that is not provided? Evidence that one is “not at liberty to share at this time.”

    I get it: There are definitely facts that are not meant to be shared, at least not at the present time. Based on such as-yet undisclosed facts, some major claims have been made. Such as the ABC business above. Or the claim that Ortega “carries water” for some “vermin” to be soon disclosed. Or the claim that parties in the “anti-scientology camp” put up $$$ to send PI’s after the Rathbuns.

    If these facts are real and true, and if proof exists as claimed, then those conclusions can be rightfully claimed as being true. But as long as the facts are withheld, the conclusions should be too. Otherwise, it’s a bit like putting a person in prison, promising that proper proof will follow at some undisclosed point in the future. The person may very well deserve to go to prison; but not until such time as the facts have been established. Then we can all agree that a just verdict has been pronounced. In the meantime, not so much…

  29. Mark Rathbun –

    It’s clear to me that you are writing without an agenda. You are simply demonstrating the social courage to voice your own opinion on your own blog from your own viewpoint, and from your own experience.

    For that, I congratulate you. And I hope many other Ex-Scientologists carefully think about what you’ve written here, and how you have written it. I hope other Ex-Scientologists develop the social courage to say things as they see it from their own viewpoint too, no matter what “side” wins from what they think or say.

    If our experience in Scientology has taught us anything, it is that the truth has no “sides”. The truth is both the good and the bad of any idea, person, or subject. Worrying about what side “wins” or “loses” when you try to write the truth about a subject is completely useless, and it will kill you as a writer.

    Just because David Miscavige must deperately discredit his own father for giving him a well-deserved public spanking with his NYTimes best-selling book has nothing to do with what you are writing about. That Tony Ortega and Jeffrey Augustine, and even now Dan Koon and Ron Sr himself, are trying to accuse you of working for David Miscavige is just fucking sad, and it is a demonstration of the simplistic tribal mindset that a Dead Ender becomes stuck in.

    I’m glad that Ron Miscavige, Sr. wrote his book, and made any money he could off of it. Because that particular father’s bare-assed public humiliation of his own son, when that son was David Miscavige, was a public service.

    Alanzo

    PS I wasn’t going to post anything about this. But I saw that the creative geniuses over on ESMB are saying that posting to Marty’s blog, and supporting Marty and his family, would make me a “loon” in their eyes. And so I want to say once again – because I know every single one of them will read this:

    ESMB is filled with toxic and nasty people who bring out the worst in each other every day. As I have written about on my blog, ESMB is the worst possible environment for anyone leaving Scientology. After many years of experience, I have concluded that Ex-Scientologists should stay the fuck away from ESMB if they want to move on with their lives after Scientology in a healthy and constructive way.

    There. Did all y’all see that?

    Good.

    Let the ESMB Circle Jerk contunue.

    • Well said Al dawg!

    • Now we’re all working for David Miscavige. That will be the next “soul consolation” laid on the table over there. It’s a shame when the only way to console yourself and your mates, is to invent tragedy for others. To ponder the ill fate or misfortune of others. But this is the current culture there. They should change the banner on the web site to reflect the real opportunity available there:

      Anti Scientology Message Board
      Inventing the needy and tragedy.

      • Or:

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        Convincing people they are insane since _ _ _ _!

        Quote Originally Posted by Emma
        Holy Cow!

        Virginia McClaughry, Arnie Lerma, The Oracle…..all in one place.

        That’s some scary shit right there.

        How is that the looniest of the loons all managed to end up on Marty’s blog?

        Hmmmmmm……..Where is Alanzo?

      • Or:

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        Get in the driver’s seat on psychiatric evaluations!

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        You can run but you can’t hide!

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        Gaslight until they lose the fight!

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        Harm attack AND suppress !

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        The Office of Special Affairs !
        Continuous Comm Eves and
        Daily declares!

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        Wallow in Spiritual and Domestic terrorism!
        Seek revenge through cyber stalking and slander!
        Wreck a life and cause some strife!

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        Seek revenge, cause humiliation!
        Lift yourself, through intimidation!

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        Explore your need to degrade others.
        We will even supply you
        with hands and rubbers!

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        Where you can be ruthless,
        inventing the punishment!
        Learn the art, of
        ill will management!

      • Or:

        The Anti Scientology Message Ward
        This place is fantastic! The Internet
        is, our eighth dynamic!

      • Or:

        Anti Scientology Message Ward
        Free membership now! But you must humor us.
        We will never betray your trust…as long as you are one of us!

      • Or:

        Anti Scientology Message Board
        Where anyone can be an
        International Justice Chief!

        ♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸♫♪♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸♫♪♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸♫♪♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸♫♪
        Do min a tion hey!

      • Or:

        Anti Scientology Message Ward

        ♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸♫♪♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸♫♪♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸♫♪♪♫•*¨*•.¸¸♫♪
        We Build Walls. Live in the past.
        We’ve found our way!

        Hey La de Da! Hey la de … We build walls!

      • Or:

        Anti Scientology Message Ward
        FREE Human Value Analysis!
        Let us decide if your life is not worth living!

        And ensure
        your family friends and children are notified.

        You post, we roast!

      • Anti Scientology Message Ward
        Thank you for joining!
        Please watch, “What we expect of an Ex Scientologist”.

      • Or:

        Anti Scientology Message Ward
        We’d rather have you dead than
        emotionally available.

        • Perfection.

          It is the frozen emotional states of those who howl or pander or rant or rave that is so fascinating yet painful to watch.

          FROZEN.

          Mark isn’t frozen. He’s been melting since he left (and obviously before) —

          Many do not understand a word Mark says and they say so.

          BECAUSE he isn’t frozen. ICE is easy to see. Touch. Feel. It stays mostly in one place.

          Water travels. Harder to touch …

          And vapor or mist — well — that is very hard … then it’s gone with the sun …

          MOST are frozen. Emotionally unavailable.

          Emotions are fluid —- but the STORY makes them solid.

          And on and on and on …

          Windhorse

    • The pathetic irony is that the mind set of the Scientology experience has never left the “circle jerkers”, and wallowing in the Church swamp for so long has infected Tony Ortega, and sadly, his “never in” followers.

  30. Marty,

    I respond here as a former cultist “used” by Louis Theroux, so I know of what I speak. I have personally been on the receiving end of his interviewing style and camera crew for Michael Moore’s “TV Nation” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djZ_ze5qyuo before I exited.

    Watching the leader and my (former) fellow cultists get excited about the anticipated publicity they believed would result just added to my cognitive dissonance, which was getting pretty loud by that time. For someone not engaged in the groupthink that clearly continues to interest Louis, it would have been impossible to not anticipate the extreme embarrassment of being included in a national program where everyone else in the other cults was so obviously a flaming wackjob. But nobody admitted that out loud. At the time, I only let myself think it for about ¼ second. It is still excruciating, so much so that this is the first I’ve ever mentioned it, even anonymously. So I get it. I get how embarrassing it must be now for you to look back on your role as his movie is about to hit US airwaves.

    I also watched the leader and my (former) fellow cultists slam Louis for not getting it ‘right’ and for making fun of us rather than getting the importance of the ‘true’ message out there and not following the leader’s script. Numerous diatribes tearing down Big Bad Louis resulted. They circulated in order to fan the group’s indignation which barely camouflaged our secret personal humiliation.

    That said, it’s NOT “Marty’s Scientology Movie”, it’s Louis’ movie. He is a genius at drawing out people with odd beliefs. It was Louis’ movie from the get go, not a vehicle for your personal agenda. For you to expect otherwise is beyond naïve. Lots of folks are speculating on your motive for writing this now. From where I sit, having also been a subject of Louis Theroux, I believe you must secretly feel utterly chagrined as you are about to be seen by a wide audience with no scientology investment.

    While “TV Nation” was simply humorous entertainment for most viewers, it likely raised healthy questions for others. Confronting the reason for my secret embarrassment was one of the final straws that broke me free from any agenda or mission involving the leader’s teachings. Louis gets some credit for being both entertaining and enlightening, even though his wasn’t the script I supported at the time. In other words, Louis Theroux was a catalyst for a huge fu*king growth opportunity for me. I hope being one of Louis’ subjects becomes “just another FGO” for you, too, one day.

    • Thanks. Interesting. I have no issue with Louis Theroux. I knew who he was coming in. As noted I had no agenda – and the record shows it – to carry Scientology’s brief.The issue for me is summed up in the first paragraph of the review.

      • Mark –

        What happened to Chinn….that’s the part I was interested in because there were obviously “pressures” brought to bear to make him conform. “Pressures” sourcing from individuals. Individuals that had intentions perhaps a *bit* more far-reaching than a simple dollars-to-glory ratio.

        For other readers – this part of Mark’s “Louis Theroux’s Scientology Movie post, the first paragraph, is what I’m talking about.

        “During my involvement in the movie’s creation I witnessed Chinn being sucked into the staged-news, infotainment vortex that seems to have consumed the erstwhile Fourth Estate.”

        Virginia

    • Apparently, you can receive critical updates if you are on an email list from a group called Outer Banks:

      Copied from a post on ESMB:

      6th September 2016, 01:57 PM #248
      RogerB RogerB is offline
      Crusader

      RogerB’s Avatar Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Location
      New York
      Posts
      6,851
      Default Re: Rathbun Attempts To Defend David Miscavige
      Emms, the link in your post works for me here . . .
      But also I have an original post from/by Stephen Mango as an email from the “Outer Banks” FaceBook page as below . . .

      Facebook

      Steven Mango, Karen De La Carriere and 5 others posted in The Outer Banks.

      http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?42581-Rathbun-Attempts-To-Defend-David-Miscavige/page25

  31. Mark –

    When you were still in the church, did it ever come to your attention that Hana, Gerry, (or similar Apollo/Mediterranean period staff) were intelligence assets of one flavor or another?

    I ask, because if they were? That changes everything. For one thing, it would perhaps re-characterize your work against them as purely counter-intelligence – one intelligence agent against another.

    One intelligence agent doesn’t get to cry Foul! just because another beats them at their own game.

    But….

    If one or more of these loggerheads intelligence forces, who are not succeeding against each other directly, then start deliberately creating collateral damage using innocents in their quest to try and take EACH OTHER down?

    That cannot be dismissed so easily.

    Virginia

  32. Note: I’m not necessarily saying that you did that, that’s not really my point.

    A number of people try to make much of your lack of desire to do what Gerry Armstrong wants/thinks you should.

    I think it’s not as simple as their often conclusion of “something is wrong with Marty because he doesn’t.”

    To be honest, If I was you I wouldn’t want to answer one of his missives I’ve seen that were mailed to you – either.

    They lack humanity.

    He doesn’t talk to you like you are a person.

    I consistently get the impression whenever I come across something Gerry had written to you – that you’re being treated as a thing, a label, an idea, anything *but* a real person. The kind you might have a beer with, even if you did argue here and there while doing it, but read off tomes of legalese and acting like you’re in a court room cross-examining someone.

  33. Not that I haven’t done that myself on occasion…but I don’t where it is unwarranted.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s